Is there a "battle"? I mean, a battle to me means there is a likely winner, and people are pushed into making decisions and taking sides. In 15+ years working at tech companies, I've never had to "pick" - I choose to live in SF - thats it.
Further, I've literally never, ever, heard a person who is actually running or employed at a startup consider it a battle.
But it does seem like a good headline for getting lots of clicks...
I heard it referred to as a "debate". When I got there, people were asking me left and right about what I thought was different, so it seems like the comparison is already being made.
I hate to say anything good about SF, but frankly only people in the NYC tech scene think they're in competition with SF. I doubt people in SF think much about the tech scene in NYC.
I work at a large tech co. in NYC, and we don't really talk about being in competition with SF at all. Besides, many of the really big SF-based cos. have offices here anyway.
Too bad it's going to be destroyed now that DeBlasio was elected. He has no idea what to do with the tech sector. Bloomberg spent millions to basically stump for the tech scene in NY. DeBlasio plans on doing no such thing, he has no clue and no plan. When all the other candidates visited numerous startups during the campaign, DeBlasio showed almost no interest.
"[NYC] is home to fashion, art, film, literature, theater, banking, and more."
Maybe its just closer to Europe?
More seriously, agree with the article. SF's strength is also its weakness: a huge concentration of bright like-minded people focused on similar objectives.
Interesting that you fail to mention the other side of SF, the people who have lived here from before we started coming in. The New York Times had an article on them today [1].
I wish the tech scene on Long Island, NY was a tenth of what it is in NYC. It's amazing how the culture dies within a few miles of NYC. Is this the same on the west coast?
You can picture west coast internet tech as a heat map. SF has a big solid color blob. About 20 miles south, Palo Alto is smaller and half as dark. About 10 miles south, Mountain View is a little larger and darker than Palo Alto.
There are little blobs of heat map down by San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obispo. There's a little dollop of color up at Portland. There's a half-SF color sized blob in Seattle for Amazon. There's a small, but solid color around Bellevue and a faint twinkle over at Redmond for the fading empire.
If NYC stays strong expect Long Island to grow with it. Office space is dramatically lower on the island and projects like "Nassau Works" look to centralize the tech hiring, making it easier to transition to more living space for less money.
I don't know about NYC much but SF has culture. The suburbia is exactly what it is: suburbia. I remember living in Mountain View for three months, they have one fucking street which is "downtown". I got stir crazy after a while.
How are salaries/living expenses in tech different in SF and NYC? Assuming you are living in SF or NYC, of course. Are they higher in NYC or lower or vice versa?
Who cares? you know what's in NYC that trumps that consideration? The opposite sex in balanced ratios. Finding your life partner far outweighs salary or living expenses any day of the week.
Agree with last comment -- Salary is roughly equivalent, but cost of living in NYC is much higher. While you can rent for cheap in NY due to transit, you can do that in SF too (see: Dogpatch). Cost of food, entertainment, etc. is way higher in NY. (Reference: I lived in NY for 5 yrs, and SF for about 6 months now)
I would say both are lower in NYC. Salary is definitely lower, and rent is as well because the infinitely better public transit in NYC gives you more living options that have a short commute.
I really like the idea behind the takeaways and can imagine some truth to these observations... but it's hard for me to know how true it really is based on the OP's one week trip. Maybe the OP was lucky and just walked into a welcoming and diverse co-working space.
Hi Mike, I'm the writer. I totally agree-- one week is not enough time to make sweeping generalizations. Though I did spend a ton of time talking to everyone I met in tech about what they thought of the "scene" and our differences-- people from Stack Exchange, Skillshare, and a few other startups I admire. I just found the atmosphere so incredibly different from the get-go.
Also, yes, I was lucky to be in a great co-working space (New Work City). I'm sure they're not ALL like that. Just as in SF, there are "bright spots" and "meh spots".
Not to shock or surprise anyone here, but there's a lot of the tech scene outside BOTH NY and SF. Where's the largest private software company? Cary, NC [1]. Microsoft and Amazon? Based in Seattle. IBM? The non-NYC parts of NY (White Plains and Armonk, NY). And what's happening in different regions like Chicago? Lots going on. DC and Baltimore? Tons of activity -- including a $2.7B acquisition [2] and an IPO or two [3]. Raleigh? Philadelphia? Las Vegas? Indianapolis? Kansas City? Miami? Atlanta? Austin? Estonia? Berlin? ...
And let's not forget Boston / New England ... which is STILL #2 in total Venture Capital investment. [4]
See where I'm heading? This idea of an ongoing battle between two locations as being the core of the IT / Startup ecosystem belies the fact that a considerable amount of activity is happening outside these two regions.
I love NY and I love SF. And I think good entrepreneurs should do their best to network in both of those scenes. And YES there's a ton of VC in SF / Silicon Valley and a huge amount of activity in NY. But entrepreneurs outside of NY and SF can do just fine too. Ask Tony Hsieh from Zappos (Las Vegas) or Jeff Bezos (Seattle). I say, let these two cities battle it on while everyone else focuses on making their company and their local entrepreneurial scenes better.
When all you have is a slightly upgraded monkey brain, everything looks like a status play.
Edit: Apparently humour needs to come with captions now.
This is a play on the "hammer/nail" truism, observing that folk love to frame things as X vs Y zero-sum games. Possibly because of the human fondness for associating the status value of markers (places, brands) with the status value of our own selves. Thus arguments over NYC vs SF or iOS vs Android or Facebook vs Google or Node.js vs Go are not really about X vs Y at all. They are about establishing status in a troupe of great apes.
Ha, I thought it was kind of funny and I wrote the darn thing.
For the record, I did hear someone refer to it as "the ongoing New York/SF debate". This isn't something I just invented. I had personally never thought there was any comparison to be made until I heard that people out there make it all the time.
jtoeman|12 years ago
Further, I've literally never, ever, heard a person who is actually running or employed at a startup consider it a battle.
But it does seem like a good headline for getting lots of clicks...
carriemelissa|12 years ago
rayiner|12 years ago
rml|12 years ago
jrs99|12 years ago
jaboutboul|12 years ago
kimar|12 years ago
Maybe its just closer to Europe?
More seriously, agree with the article. SF's strength is also its weakness: a huge concentration of bright like-minded people focused on similar objectives.
eshvk|12 years ago
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/25/us/backlash-by-the-bay-tec...
jbarrec|12 years ago
seiji|12 years ago
There are little blobs of heat map down by San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obispo. There's a little dollop of color up at Portland. There's a half-SF color sized blob in Seattle for Amazon. There's a small, but solid color around Bellevue and a faint twinkle over at Redmond for the fading empire.
dannyrosen|12 years ago
eshvk|12 years ago
loucal|12 years ago
jamesmcbennett|12 years ago
“you’d have to be out of your mind to live in Palo Alto.”
http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/david-karp-is-...
argonaut|12 years ago
eshvk|12 years ago
wheaties|12 years ago
justmadhu|12 years ago
w1ntermute|12 years ago
exacube|12 years ago
jboggan|12 years ago
calciphus|12 years ago
berberous|12 years ago
beachstartup|12 years ago
bch|12 years ago
Immediately reminded of "Money talks, wealth whispers."
mikeg8|12 years ago
carriemelissa|12 years ago
Also, yes, I was lucky to be in a great co-working space (New Work City). I'm sure they're not ALL like that. Just as in SF, there are "bright spots" and "meh spots".
rexreed|12 years ago
And let's not forget Boston / New England ... which is STILL #2 in total Venture Capital investment. [4]
See where I'm heading? This idea of an ongoing battle between two locations as being the core of the IT / Startup ecosystem belies the fact that a considerable amount of activity is happening outside these two regions.
I love NY and I love SF. And I think good entrepreneurs should do their best to network in both of those scenes. And YES there's a ton of VC in SF / Silicon Valley and a huge amount of activity in NY. But entrepreneurs outside of NY and SF can do just fine too. Ask Tony Hsieh from Zappos (Las Vegas) or Jeff Bezos (Seattle). I say, let these two cities battle it on while everyone else focuses on making their company and their local entrepreneurial scenes better.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Institute_Inc.
[2] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-23/cisco-agrees-to-buy...
[3] http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/03/29/millennial...
[4] https://www.pwcmoneytree.com/MTPublic/ns/nav.jsp?page=region
jacques_chester|12 years ago
Edit: Apparently humour needs to come with captions now.
This is a play on the "hammer/nail" truism, observing that folk love to frame things as X vs Y zero-sum games. Possibly because of the human fondness for associating the status value of markers (places, brands) with the status value of our own selves. Thus arguments over NYC vs SF or iOS vs Android or Facebook vs Google or Node.js vs Go are not really about X vs Y at all. They are about establishing status in a troupe of great apes.
Indeed, this edited text is about status.
carriemelissa|12 years ago
For the record, I did hear someone refer to it as "the ongoing New York/SF debate". This isn't something I just invented. I had personally never thought there was any comparison to be made until I heard that people out there make it all the time.
jweir|12 years ago
edit : Below not beneath (as the below comment points out )
bradleyjg|12 years ago