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Bitcoins stolen from the users of Sheep Market Place?

72 points| arvindravi | 12 years ago |blockchain.info | reply

63 comments

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[+] nullymcnull|12 years ago|reply
Seems a little premature to point at the blockchain and say "STOLEN!". Most people won't be able to make much sense of that. The whole situation is complicated.

More info: http://www.reddit.com/r/SheepMarketplace/comments/1rpy1t/i_w... http://www.sheepmarketscam.com/

tl;dr: For a week or so, many users have been unable to withdraw BTC from Sheep. Admins have been claiming technical problems as they try and implement an automatic tumbler (money laundry to obfuscate transactions) - which (conveniently) could be claimed as a legit reason for all the huge transfer activity seen in the blockchain. They implemented a countdown timer for withdrawals, which for many users and vendors has now counted down to 0, yet withdrawals still aren't happening. They've set a minimum withdrawal amount of 1BTC, which given the insane price of BTC right now seems really outrageous.

Most damning, several vendors who are admins, moderators, or closely affiliated with admins, are reported to have suddenly started doing something which is very frequently seen in drug market cons: Offering far larger quantities than they ever have before, at unusually low prices (50% or less than their previous pricing), and requiring FE (immediate and upfront release of funds to them rather than going through escrow). Frequently done to rope in the maximum amount of hopeful suckers before bailing with the money.

The market is still up and running right now, although their forums are down with this message: "We are enabling a spam filter for the forums, as the number of posts had got out of control. We will be enabling the forum once this is in place. Please try to stay calm. This is a temporary measure, and we will keep everybody updated when we have further information".

[+] tedunangst|12 years ago|reply
Obvious question: why not let people check the "I understand the risks" box and withdraw without mixing?
[+] runn1ng|12 years ago|reply
To be frank,

the site never worked 100% and the support was always kind of terrible. So it is possible (not very likely, but > 0% probability) that it is just a miscommunication on their part.

I wouldn't bet on it though.

[+] pyalot2|12 years ago|reply
You are surprised that when you trust your coins to the anonymous operator of a drug marketplace that you get ripped off?

There's three separate reasons why you're screwed:

1) You have no recourse because you can't report the theft to police.

2) You have no recourse because you can't identify the operator, he's anonymous, which means he's also hidden from you.

3) You have no recourse because you can't undo your transaction.

As a good rule of thumb, only perform transactions in bitcoin doing legal things, that leave you at least with some recourse in case things do go wrong. And if you sat there, holding your coins, thinking "oh, I'm just gonna buy drugs with them, what could possibly go wrong", you seriously shouldn't have bitcoin, they're not good for you. Oh, and drugs are also not good for you, so please don't do them.

[+] baby|12 years ago|reply
> As a good rule of thumb, only perform transactions in bitcoin doing legal things

How is this a good rule of thumb? If you want to stay in legality, then do legal things, if you don't want to stay in legality, then do whatever you want. Your good rule of thumb seems more like a "how to be a good sheep" to me.

> you seriously shouldn't have bitcoin, they're not good for you.

Who are you to judge what people are doing with their coins? People like you are the ones who give a bad image of bitcoin. Don't enforce bitcoins onto others, don't enforce your personal view of bitcoins onto others.

> Oh, and drugs are also not good for you, so please don't do them.

We're not on a rehab website, I don't see how this comment influenced from your "lifestyle" is relevant here. If you're not drinking alcohol, not smoking coffee, then good for you. But we've never asked for your input.

[+] RyanZAG|12 years ago|reply
Even using bitcoins for legal things leaves you little recourse - this is the whole point of bitcoin. When you avoid government regulation and oversight you also avoid the protections it gives - this should hopefully be obvious to anyone.
[+] jamesaguilar|12 years ago|reply
There are plenty of drugs that are not legal and at least not bad for you, although I think the rest of your analysis is decent.
[+] loceng|12 years ago|reply
I'm not so sure. Where this Bitcoin is spent can now be tracked, right?
[+] nwh|12 years ago|reply
Doubtful. The balance was never 39,917BTC, it's been dropping funds in and out for almost a month now. If it was stolen, they took their time doing it.
[+] gwern|12 years ago|reply
The scam has been going on for at least a week. There's no hurry.
[+] PeterisP|12 years ago|reply
I wonder why you don't see news articles stating 'bank robbers steal $ 123000 from users of [random-bank-branch]' ... could it be because if someone hacks or robs a bank or a legitimate payment service provider such as westernunion or paypal, they are required to eat the loss, not pass it on to users?
[+] ceejayoz|12 years ago|reply
Bank robbers typically walk away with a few grand if they're lucky, and it'll almost certainly have a dye pack and a tracker in it. Bank robbery is a fool's business.

39k BTC is what, $39 million worth? You're right, news articles cover that differently than a $123,000 loss that's covered by insurance.

[+] AJ007|12 years ago|reply
My understanding, in the US, is if you have a personal account the bank eats the loss. If you have a business account its gone.

This actually is very common. All it requires is enough mule bank accounts to wire amounts below suspicion and spyware on the user's machine (snatches RSA authentication key at entry if two factor verification is used.) The banks don't want the event to be publicized and the company/small business doesn't want it publicized either.

[+] corresation|12 years ago|reply
Outside of the asymmetrical reporting angle (which I would say doesn't exist, unless your question is why normal thefts aren't on the front page of HN?), large value thefts are very uncommon in traditional commerce. There was one recent one where an international ring with many participants stole from ATMs using skimmed cards, yielding $45 million, but that has been international news repeatedly for quite some time.
[+] n1c|12 years ago|reply
Bitcoin is making hacking seriously profitable.
[+] coldcode|12 years ago|reply
Expect organized crime to take an interest in bitcoins. Shady operators and little oversight makes it an easy target.
[+] ceejayoz|12 years ago|reply
They already have. CryptoLocker is raking in tens of millions of Bitcoins as ransom payments.
[+] user24|12 years ago|reply
don't understand why multi signature isn't more commonly used.
[+] locusm|12 years ago|reply
Are there any recorded cases of someone recovering stolen BTC?
[+] runn1ng|12 years ago|reply
It's not possible in general.

If someone steals your bitcoins, he can send them wherever they want. That's the "beauty" of bitcoin - if someone has the keys, he can do whatever he wants with it.

[+] gasull|12 years ago|reply
I read at least one case where an exchange seized funds coming from hacking into a site.
[+] Zoomla|12 years ago|reply
as I understand it, the chances are very slim, but a solution might be to "ban" addresses with stolen coins from making transations... but there probably always will be a black market.
[+] majorpatron|12 years ago|reply
honestly this sounds more like silk road 2.0 is launching a campaign to rune sheep marketplaces image to try to regain customers and vendors. i personally think that sheep marketplaces web design is waay better than SR and BMR. they are probably under attack by SR 2.0
[+] known|12 years ago|reply
Cash = unlimited demand and unlimited supply

Bitcoin = unlimited demand and limited supply (21 million)