>It's all well and good for the unmanned vehicles to fly to a particular GPS site, but how does it then find the package's intended recipient?
The drones could be almost fully automated - fly to this GPS point above the person's house, at which point control is handed to a pilot for the landing & package drop.
>How is the transfer of the package enacted? What stops someone else stealing the package along the way?
I'd imagine the same way it's done today, the same way USPS/UPS handles packages - by dropping them on my porch and hoping my neighbors are honest.
>And what happens when next door's kid decides to shoot the drone with his BB rifle?
He gets a spanking and the drone gets repaired? The same thing that would happen if he shot the tires off the Fedex truck?
This article raises some good points about the political ramifications of drone technology, and some excellent ones about it being a PR move to squelch negative reporting, but I'm left with the feeling that, if he were alive a century ago, James Ball wouldn't be out of place writing an article titled "Sears & Roebuck to stop horse-drawn carriage delivery in favor of the automobile? Don't believe the hype".
> The drones could be almost fully automated - fly to this GPS point above the person's house, at which point control is handed to a pilot for the landing & package drop
In the real world, you can't "fly to this GPS point". If this were possible, we would have automated airplanes and pilots would be out of their jobs. Remember the real world has other aircraft and a number of interesting obstacles: power lines, lamp posts, fences, trees, cranes, trucks, chimneys, kites and all other kinds of interesting stuff.
Flying blind to a preprogrammed GPS location is simply impossible in the real world.
Also, remember that GPS isn't quite enough to drop a package right on your doorstep. You need much more than that.
> I'd imagine the same way it's done today, the same way USPS/UPS handles packages - by dropping them on my porch and hoping my neighbors are honest.
These drones have a 10 miles range, I would guess they are intended for densely populated metropolitan areas where it is viable to have a closeby Amazon warehouse. So in most cases simply there is no porch.
Alternative proposal: take the package to the customer's phone. At this sort of timing, "where I am now" is better than "where I usually am".
The customer must have a smartphone and place the order with Amazon's special app. The app then continually uploads the customer's gps data to Amazon so the drone can target. Once the drone gets close, the phone also gives a distinctive beacon using wifi for the drone to hone in on. When it's time to receive the package, the app displays a specific QR code and the drone scans it.
It's the customer's responsibility to be outside at the right time, but the app will tell them when to within a few minutes. Likewise, if the phone's battery dies during delivery, the delivery is aborted for a partial refund (the app provides warnings).
Some people will worry about accruing "failure to receive" charges due to Amazon's failings, but once a good track record is established, that will fade. Others will worry about the NSA seizing all that location data, but they already have it from the cell phone companies.
> "... by dropping them on my porch and hoping my neighbors are honest."
You wouldn't even need to do this. If you have a garden (even a communal one) then the drone could simply land there instead. Or perhaps a balcony, if large enough. I can imagine Amazon sending you a beacon of some kind which the drone could communicate with when nearby to pinpoint where it's supposed to land.
There are some people that only see downsides, that compulsively expect failures. We call them nay-sayers. You want a handful of them in your organization, especially in tech, since they keep your head out of the clouds. But too often they tend to be averse to innovation and derail progress. James Ball, the author of the article, seems to be one of those people.
On October 9, 1903, two months before the Wright brothers flew for the first time, the New York times declared "The ridiculous fiasco which attended the attempt at aerial navigation in the Langley flying machine was not unexpected… it might be assumed that the flying machine which will really fly might be evolved by the combined and continuous efforts of mathematicians and mechanicians in from one million to ten million years" [1]
I imagine someone like James Ball wrote that article, too.
Come on, this is a complete straw man. The article is not saying it's physically impossible, because clearly it isn't, it's saying there are legal and logistical problems to consider.
Plus, following your argument you could swat away any criticism of any outlandish claim by saying that people once thought the world was flat. Hardly constructive. Not that there are any claims of this magnitude by Amazon or in this article.
66 years later we landed men on the moon. Funny how fast things take off once your crack that first big problem.
That said, Bezos is a businessman. Everything he does promotes Amazon in several different ways. This video will be used as negotiation muscle with delivery companies. It'll be used during union negotiations within UPS. It'll be used to make Amazon look technologically progressive and not just America's biggest mall. It'll make Bezos look good to investors. It'll spook smaller companies trying to get into this game (how's the nook doing?).
It might also lead to actually landing packages on people's front porches.
In this case though, he's nay-saying for the purpose of bashing Amazon. Once he's done making rather weak arguments about why it won't work (all of the issues he brought up can and will be solved), he makes his anti-Amazon agenda pretty clear (see last two paragraphs). The content of the announcement was inconsequential; he just needed an Amazon story to write about.
Many political websites do the same thing: they use a linkbait headline, briefly mention something in the news that is barely tangential to the actual message they want to get out, then say whatever it is they wanted to in the first place. Huffington Post 101.
You've missed the main point of the article. He does spend some time raising practical objections, true. But this is really about Amazon's PR tactics, and how a carefully timed press release about a pie in the sky drone project is raising Amazon's profile in the holiday shopping season and (especially in the UK) pushing negative Amazon stories out of the news.
Just because someone was wrong about the Wright brothers a century ago doesn't mean that someone else is wrong about something completely different today. Carl Sagan said it best:
"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
Thank you for this. I turned this into a nice life lesson for my 7 and 10 year old this morning about the possibilities that you can get by taking the long view.
"Bezos' neat trick has knocked several real stories about Amazon out of the way. Last week's Panorama investigation into Amazon's working and hiring practices, suggesting that the site's employees had an increased risk of mental illness, is the latest in a long line of pieces about the company's working conditions – zero-hour contracts, short breaks, and employees' every move tracked by internal systems. Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax – to the margins."
I find it strange that The Guardian wants to call Amazon's effort a publicity stunt, but when a Sydney company announced plans for the world's first Book-delivery-by-drone back in October, The Guardian was happy to run that story without any skepticism:
Why not just use digital versions of the textbooks? I like physical books over "ebooks" but it seems like an incredibly wasteful service to shuttle around physical textbooks.
As far as why the difference in coverage? I would guess that a company like Amazon generally announces these sorts of initiatives when they're pretty much available, which makes the "earliest in 2015" bit turn this into a big PR stunt imo.
"Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax "
- Introducing your own newspaper into the debate negates any chance you have that this is in impartial journalistic piece. Secondly, I doubt Bezos is thinking about some UK tax noise when deciding whether or not to discuss drone's with 60 minutes.
"It's too late for the clickfarms already. But outlets and journalists who'd like to think of themselves as serious must stop regurgitating this crap. And, even more importantly, you,concerned citizen, must try to stop clicking on it."
- Let me lecture both my peers and my audience on how they need to behave. I'm uniquely qualified to do this because........well for no real reason actually except a heightened sense of self worth.
The amount of idea-bashing coming out against this Amazon drone concept is astonishing. Aren't we supposed to the be champions of the future? Do you think for a second that your nail-in-the-coffin counterpoint hasn't already been brought up around the meeting table? Can't we focus on how instead of why not?
Drone deliveries are cool and futuristic idea, and I'm sure they will happen at some point.
But there is a big difference between "Bezos thinks drone deliveries would be cool in 5 years time", and "Amazon starts drone deliveries". The article rightly concludes that at this time, it's a PR trick for driving black friday sales.
The concept of drone deliveries isn't that novel: at least 10 companies have announced that they are working on or have put out promotional videos of the same thing in the last few years. The novel and interesting bit would be to figure out the real logistical difficulties, which Amazon nor the others have yet presented.
> Aren't we supposed to be the champions of the future?
If you mean as "hackers", to pick a word from the name of this website, who were for a long time, rightly or wrongly, supposed to be conscientious watchdogs of present and future technology, no.
If for no other reason, as technologists who witnessed Stallman, Assange, Bradley, Snowden, so on in their lifetimes, you're supposed to be first and foremost astute critics of the future that dominant forces of the realm of technology such as Amazon are aiming to build. And rather than enthusiastically applaud whatever new and possibly exciting technology they bring to the table that contributes to your present or future paycheck and their private profit, you're supposed to take political responsibility for the future you help build by being their employees, customers and unpaid evangelists.
I'd sell/give away clip-on baskets with a fat QR-code or similar imprinted on the inside bottom (or with embedded iBeacon-like-tech or even infrared lights similar to the Wii) to all customers who want to use this service and ask them to attach it to a window-sill, preferably upstairs or to the the back of the house. This would allow the copter to make a secure drop. As the copters are weight-limited anyway the baskets could also be.
It's also worth noting that as this service is for urgent items (why else would you pay extra for a 30 min service) why would you need to worry about the recipient being out? With GPS built-into mobile phones, 4G internet, bluetooth and iBeacon-like tech you could inform the recipient just before delivery or even better and it directly to them (or a special basket placed on the ground).
I'm also surprised that Jeff Bezos, well known for avoiding the press, spotlight, and all interviews, was suddenly being interviewed by a prominent television network.
Moreover, Bezos, who almost never talks about products in advance, was talking about something which won't be available for at least several years -- complete with a video demo.
I believe that Amazon has been investing time, money, and energy in this delivery-by-drone system. And I'm even excited by this possibility, far-off as it might be, and unlikely to come to my part of the world (i.e., Israel) in the foreseeable future. So this wasn't a just damage-control press tour, as the Guardian author seems to think.
But something is going on here, and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe Amazon is just trying to encourage more people to buy from them during the US "holiday shopping period," as it's known. Maybe this is something of an attempt to soften the negative image that Amazon workers' conditions have received lately. (Several of my relatives were talking about it over the weekend, so it has struck a chord with some people.) Maybe it's a "don't hurt us, since we're doing such cool things" image campaign. I'm really not sure. But this does seem rather out of character, and I'm glad that at least someone is raising questions about it.
I don't think Amazon needs to hype up the biggest shopping day of the year, it will likely be a record day of sales for them whatever happens. It's more likely that Amazon has some potential long term logistics contracts with couriers to renew, and they're showing what they could likely be capable of.
The article reminded me of all the buzz surrounding the Segway. There was so much buzz, in fact, people had a heyday trying to figure out what it was. Most thought it was some kind of personal flying device - which led to long discussions about the implications and roadblocks such a device would encounter. Which is very similar to having packages delivered via drones.
In the end, the Segway hardly lived up to all the hype. I mean, Bezo's himself was quoted as saying, "Cities will be built around these devices." Which should give you a good idea of how masterful he's at over hyping certain things. I now take most of his announcements with a pound of salt, considering his colorful history.
As someone who builds these for a hobby, the biggest problem is battery life and range.
The battery life life of the craft is determined by the weight/battery capacity ratio. Since is hardly any aerodynamics, the multicopter is constantly fighting the force of gravity by delivering an equal force using its motors and props.
An optimistic range estimate for current batteries would be about 10 mi, but the craft would also have to return, so make that 5mi.
Now imagine what happens when you attach a payload to it.
Regulations may change, and flight controlers keep getting better, but batteries would need significant improvement for this to become viable.
If range is a problem (and I have to assume that Bezos and team are aware of the performance characteristics of current/near term drone tech) they don't have to limit themselves to batteries.
>I love how The Guardian thinks that in six hours it can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon hasn't thought of in six months.
No, what they actually think is that in six hours they can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon has also thought of but doesn't care about, because it's a publicity stunt.
This is a mixture of the Guardian being stereotypically British, seeing the problems in everything, and ignoring the vast suburban reality of much of the US, where the problems would be smaller and the idea that much more practical, even if it's not necessarily easy.
It clearly is inevitable that at some point things will be delivered in this manner, but simply whining about it in this way is just an attempt to take away from anyone that tries to make progress, because heaven help the Guardian if they ever acknowledge someone in the private sector contributing to the advance of humanity.
1.) The Guardian et al. complain about working conditions at Amazon.
2.) Amazon puts out PR hinting that many of those workers will be replaced by automation before too long.
3.) The Guardian says it's just shopping season hype to distract from the working conditions and such.
Basically Amazon just called their bluff, and is now under pressure to deliver some seriously impressive results. How can a reporter complain about working conditions for drones? Will they go full-on Luddite and try to blame Amazon for destroying jobs? This should be interesting.
It would be very cool if they will be able to do this, I've toyed around a bit with multicopters and know a thing or two about the current state of non-military UAV's, here are my thoughts:
- They use a octocopter; that's great for the payload, plus it adds some redundancy; If a motor fails the others take over to get back safely without crashing. A bad thing about this is that it's a heavy lift, so more battery drain, so it needs a bigger battery == even more drain. I think you can get 30 minutes of flight time at the max out of that, with a lot of heavy batteries.
- Multicopters carrying payloads use powerful electronic motors; You do not want to put a finger near a spinning prop, for safety reasons a UAV within reach of people or animals should always be controlled by a human, what if someone runs up to the package to pick it up and the UAV automatically spins up to return to home?
- Auto landing is possible, but might be dangerous; The current systems (for example ArduPilot) use GPS and acc/baro/gyro/compasses to achieve autonomous flight. It works if your in field without trees around you, but the system can't find the best spot to land for you, so you need to land it by hand for this delivery service, controlled by a pilot over FPV (first person, wireless video connection).
- Experimental FPV ranges over 10 miles are possible, but not fail proof, especially in a non-line of sight environment or while landing (low to the ground).
Hate it to be a nay-sayer, this will have a future but the tech isn't here yet at this moment to accomplish it fully autonomous and safe.
It would not be that hard to write an app to authenticate the person picking up the package to the drone.
You don't know when the UPS guy is going to show up, but presumably, with this system, it's fast enough that you will be right where the order is dropped off.
They're trying to solve a very real problem for their industry. I would also point out that others may want to get involved. To wit: Google mainstreamed the idea of automating cars yet mercedez, bmw, etc. will probably beat them to the punch en masse. Whether amazon solves it or walmart/target/USPS/FedEx/UPS/etc. we all win.
First and foremost, if Amazon Drones deliver within 10 miles radius in 2018, why on Earth won't you let me drive to your facility (10 miles) and then pickup my crap personally? Just build a platform you drive by you punch your order number, confirm it then a basket with my junk drives by to the front. No need to wait 5 years to make my life much easier.
Second of all, you wont see the air being open to commercial solutions until the government is done with it. Its just how things work. Neither FAA nor any other government organisation will allow anyone to ask questions why is amazon flying stuff around but yet the streets are not patrolled by unmanned aircrafts? or a fire put out by a team of cooperating drones? Until then (10 years?) Jeff is just advertising himself, a day before cyber Monday (like article is indicating) and as usually he's doing great job!
I'd love to see some sort of crowd sourced solution for this system where Amazon offers up what it sees as the biggest technical/legal limitations and asks the internet for its solutions.
So far in just the HN threads, I've read some pretty innovative ideas (QR code landing pads that homes can setup for the drones). I'm pretty sure with the hive mind of the internet this problem can be solved by the collective engineer/lawyer/politician/etc
We put men on the moon I think we can put amazon packages in people's backyards!
[+] [-] owenmarshall|12 years ago|reply
The drones could be almost fully automated - fly to this GPS point above the person's house, at which point control is handed to a pilot for the landing & package drop.
>How is the transfer of the package enacted? What stops someone else stealing the package along the way?
I'd imagine the same way it's done today, the same way USPS/UPS handles packages - by dropping them on my porch and hoping my neighbors are honest.
>And what happens when next door's kid decides to shoot the drone with his BB rifle?
He gets a spanking and the drone gets repaired? The same thing that would happen if he shot the tires off the Fedex truck?
This article raises some good points about the political ramifications of drone technology, and some excellent ones about it being a PR move to squelch negative reporting, but I'm left with the feeling that, if he were alive a century ago, James Ball wouldn't be out of place writing an article titled "Sears & Roebuck to stop horse-drawn carriage delivery in favor of the automobile? Don't believe the hype".
[+] [-] jwr|12 years ago|reply
In the real world, you can't "fly to this GPS point". If this were possible, we would have automated airplanes and pilots would be out of their jobs. Remember the real world has other aircraft and a number of interesting obstacles: power lines, lamp posts, fences, trees, cranes, trucks, chimneys, kites and all other kinds of interesting stuff.
Flying blind to a preprogrammed GPS location is simply impossible in the real world.
Also, remember that GPS isn't quite enough to drop a package right on your doorstep. You need much more than that.
[+] [-] ot|12 years ago|reply
These drones have a 10 miles range, I would guess they are intended for densely populated metropolitan areas where it is viable to have a closeby Amazon warehouse. So in most cases simply there is no porch.
[+] [-] dspeyer|12 years ago|reply
The customer must have a smartphone and place the order with Amazon's special app. The app then continually uploads the customer's gps data to Amazon so the drone can target. Once the drone gets close, the phone also gives a distinctive beacon using wifi for the drone to hone in on. When it's time to receive the package, the app displays a specific QR code and the drone scans it.
It's the customer's responsibility to be outside at the right time, but the app will tell them when to within a few minutes. Likewise, if the phone's battery dies during delivery, the delivery is aborted for a partial refund (the app provides warnings).
Some people will worry about accruing "failure to receive" charges due to Amazon's failings, but once a good track record is established, that will fade. Others will worry about the NSA seizing all that location data, but they already have it from the cell phone companies.
[+] [-] amirmc|12 years ago|reply
You wouldn't even need to do this. If you have a garden (even a communal one) then the drone could simply land there instead. Or perhaps a balcony, if large enough. I can imagine Amazon sending you a beacon of some kind which the drone could communicate with when nearby to pinpoint where it's supposed to land.
[+] [-] DerpDerpDerp|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ye|12 years ago|reply
So now you have to put a camera and a remote control system with a range of many miles on the drone. And it can only work if there's a line of sight.
Fail.
[+] [-] pvnick|12 years ago|reply
On October 9, 1903, two months before the Wright brothers flew for the first time, the New York times declared "The ridiculous fiasco which attended the attempt at aerial navigation in the Langley flying machine was not unexpected… it might be assumed that the flying machine which will really fly might be evolved by the combined and continuous efforts of mathematicians and mechanicians in from one million to ten million years" [1]
I imagine someone like James Ball wrote that article, too.
[1] http://www.skygod.com/quotes/times1903.pdf
edit: rmc indicated I wrote date as 2013, fixed to 1903
[+] [-] SandB0x|12 years ago|reply
Plus, following your argument you could swat away any criticism of any outlandish claim by saying that people once thought the world was flat. Hardly constructive. Not that there are any claims of this magnitude by Amazon or in this article.
[+] [-] drzaiusapelord|12 years ago|reply
66 years later we landed men on the moon. Funny how fast things take off once your crack that first big problem.
That said, Bezos is a businessman. Everything he does promotes Amazon in several different ways. This video will be used as negotiation muscle with delivery companies. It'll be used during union negotiations within UPS. It'll be used to make Amazon look technologically progressive and not just America's biggest mall. It'll make Bezos look good to investors. It'll spook smaller companies trying to get into this game (how's the nook doing?).
It might also lead to actually landing packages on people's front porches.
[+] [-] downandout|12 years ago|reply
Many political websites do the same thing: they use a linkbait headline, briefly mention something in the news that is barely tangential to the actual message they want to get out, then say whatever it is they wanted to in the first place. Huffington Post 101.
[+] [-] bloat|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] withad|12 years ago|reply
"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
[+] [-] rimantas|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmc|12 years ago|reply
Presume you meant 1903 there.... (A reverse Y2K bug!)
[+] [-] guelo|12 years ago|reply
(trying to practice your style of fancy ad-hominem debating)
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] zb|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] localhost|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ramblerman|12 years ago|reply
What threw me off in particular about the article though was the tone. It's fine to be skeptical but you don't need to be a sarcastic prat about it.
[+] [-] frabcus|12 years ago|reply
"Bezos' neat trick has knocked several real stories about Amazon out of the way. Last week's Panorama investigation into Amazon's working and hiring practices, suggesting that the site's employees had an increased risk of mental illness, is the latest in a long line of pieces about the company's working conditions – zero-hour contracts, short breaks, and employees' every move tracked by internal systems. Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax – to the margins."
[+] [-] icebraining|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SyneRyder|12 years ago|reply
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/15/drone-book-deli...
[+] [-] wavefunction|12 years ago|reply
As far as why the difference in coverage? I would guess that a company like Amazon generally announces these sorts of initiatives when they're pretty much available, which makes the "earliest in 2015" bit turn this into a big PR stunt imo.
[+] [-] zobzu|12 years ago|reply
I'm surprised the general population is inclined to believe such bullshit - in fact I'm surprised Amazon themselves are inclined to believe it.
Flying by "drone" is:
- more expensive
- not reliable (at all)
- prone to theft (of the drone, not the package, mind you)
- doesn't work at all in bad weather
- less efficient than current delivery methods
- easy & fun to circumvent (oh crap someone killed the 1300mhz range, our 10 000 drones just fell off the sky, military style, QUICK NEWS STORY)
it goes on and on, forever, literally... if anything I think automated driving cars are easier to get right.
[+] [-] TillE|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jusben1369|12 years ago|reply
"Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax "
- Introducing your own newspaper into the debate negates any chance you have that this is in impartial journalistic piece. Secondly, I doubt Bezos is thinking about some UK tax noise when deciding whether or not to discuss drone's with 60 minutes.
"It's too late for the clickfarms already. But outlets and journalists who'd like to think of themselves as serious must stop regurgitating this crap. And, even more importantly, you,concerned citizen, must try to stop clicking on it."
- Let me lecture both my peers and my audience on how they need to behave. I'm uniquely qualified to do this because........well for no real reason actually except a heightened sense of self worth.
Hack job.
[+] [-] bloat|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geetee|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ProblemFactory|12 years ago|reply
But there is a big difference between "Bezos thinks drone deliveries would be cool in 5 years time", and "Amazon starts drone deliveries". The article rightly concludes that at this time, it's a PR trick for driving black friday sales.
The concept of drone deliveries isn't that novel: at least 10 companies have announced that they are working on or have put out promotional videos of the same thing in the last few years. The novel and interesting bit would be to figure out the real logistical difficulties, which Amazon nor the others have yet presented.
* http://mashable.com/2013/06/05/dominos-drone/
* http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/09/04/chinese-firm-tests-dro...
* http://tacocopter.com/
* http://www.dezeen.com/2013/10/16/flying-drones-to-deliver-te...
[+] [-] mgunes|12 years ago|reply
If you mean as "hackers", to pick a word from the name of this website, who were for a long time, rightly or wrongly, supposed to be conscientious watchdogs of present and future technology, no.
If for no other reason, as technologists who witnessed Stallman, Assange, Bradley, Snowden, so on in their lifetimes, you're supposed to be first and foremost astute critics of the future that dominant forces of the realm of technology such as Amazon are aiming to build. And rather than enthusiastically applaud whatever new and possibly exciting technology they bring to the table that contributes to your present or future paycheck and their private profit, you're supposed to take political responsibility for the future you help build by being their employees, customers and unpaid evangelists.
[+] [-] rimantas|12 years ago|reply
Otoh, it is interesting to see that everybody is OK with Amazon drones taking aerial pictures of their yards.
[+] [-] sambeau|12 years ago|reply
I'd sell/give away clip-on baskets with a fat QR-code or similar imprinted on the inside bottom (or with embedded iBeacon-like-tech or even infrared lights similar to the Wii) to all customers who want to use this service and ask them to attach it to a window-sill, preferably upstairs or to the the back of the house. This would allow the copter to make a secure drop. As the copters are weight-limited anyway the baskets could also be.
It's also worth noting that as this service is for urgent items (why else would you pay extra for a 30 min service) why would you need to worry about the recipient being out? With GPS built-into mobile phones, 4G internet, bluetooth and iBeacon-like tech you could inform the recipient just before delivery or even better and it directly to them (or a special basket placed on the ground).
[+] [-] reuven|12 years ago|reply
Moreover, Bezos, who almost never talks about products in advance, was talking about something which won't be available for at least several years -- complete with a video demo.
I believe that Amazon has been investing time, money, and energy in this delivery-by-drone system. And I'm even excited by this possibility, far-off as it might be, and unlikely to come to my part of the world (i.e., Israel) in the foreseeable future. So this wasn't a just damage-control press tour, as the Guardian author seems to think.
But something is going on here, and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe Amazon is just trying to encourage more people to buy from them during the US "holiday shopping period," as it's known. Maybe this is something of an attempt to soften the negative image that Amazon workers' conditions have received lately. (Several of my relatives were talking about it over the weekend, so it has struck a chord with some people.) Maybe it's a "don't hurt us, since we're doing such cool things" image campaign. I'm really not sure. But this does seem rather out of character, and I'm glad that at least someone is raising questions about it.
[+] [-] unfunco|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] at-fates-hands|12 years ago|reply
In the end, the Segway hardly lived up to all the hype. I mean, Bezo's himself was quoted as saying, "Cities will be built around these devices." Which should give you a good idea of how masterful he's at over hyping certain things. I now take most of his announcements with a pound of salt, considering his colorful history.
[+] [-] The_Double|12 years ago|reply
The battery life life of the craft is determined by the weight/battery capacity ratio. Since is hardly any aerodynamics, the multicopter is constantly fighting the force of gravity by delivering an equal force using its motors and props.
An optimistic range estimate for current batteries would be about 10 mi, but the craft would also have to return, so make that 5mi.
Now imagine what happens when you attach a payload to it.
Regulations may change, and flight controlers keep getting better, but batteries would need significant improvement for this to become viable.
[+] [-] jsmcgd|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qq66|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coldtea|12 years ago|reply
No, what they actually think is that in six hours they can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon has also thought of but doesn't care about, because it's a publicity stunt.
[+] [-] frabcus|12 years ago|reply
Is it anti-competitively avoiding tax, poor working conditions, or drones?
[+] [-] fidotron|12 years ago|reply
It clearly is inevitable that at some point things will be delivered in this manner, but simply whining about it in this way is just an attempt to take away from anyone that tries to make progress, because heaven help the Guardian if they ever acknowledge someone in the private sector contributing to the advance of humanity.
[+] [-] guscost|12 years ago|reply
1.) The Guardian et al. complain about working conditions at Amazon.
2.) Amazon puts out PR hinting that many of those workers will be replaced by automation before too long.
3.) The Guardian says it's just shopping season hype to distract from the working conditions and such.
Basically Amazon just called their bluff, and is now under pressure to deliver some seriously impressive results. How can a reporter complain about working conditions for drones? Will they go full-on Luddite and try to blame Amazon for destroying jobs? This should be interesting.
[+] [-] fijter|12 years ago|reply
- They use a octocopter; that's great for the payload, plus it adds some redundancy; If a motor fails the others take over to get back safely without crashing. A bad thing about this is that it's a heavy lift, so more battery drain, so it needs a bigger battery == even more drain. I think you can get 30 minutes of flight time at the max out of that, with a lot of heavy batteries.
- Multicopters carrying payloads use powerful electronic motors; You do not want to put a finger near a spinning prop, for safety reasons a UAV within reach of people or animals should always be controlled by a human, what if someone runs up to the package to pick it up and the UAV automatically spins up to return to home?
- Auto landing is possible, but might be dangerous; The current systems (for example ArduPilot) use GPS and acc/baro/gyro/compasses to achieve autonomous flight. It works if your in field without trees around you, but the system can't find the best spot to land for you, so you need to land it by hand for this delivery service, controlled by a pilot over FPV (first person, wireless video connection).
- Experimental FPV ranges over 10 miles are possible, but not fail proof, especially in a non-line of sight environment or while landing (low to the ground).
Hate it to be a nay-sayer, this will have a future but the tech isn't here yet at this moment to accomplish it fully autonomous and safe.
[+] [-] Crito|12 years ago|reply
I wonder if something like SawStop (http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology) could be adapted to help with this. Probably not worth the weight I guess.
[+] [-] davidw|12 years ago|reply
You don't know when the UPS guy is going to show up, but presumably, with this system, it's fast enough that you will be right where the order is dropped off.
[+] [-] rottyguy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joering2|12 years ago|reply
Second of all, you wont see the air being open to commercial solutions until the government is done with it. Its just how things work. Neither FAA nor any other government organisation will allow anyone to ask questions why is amazon flying stuff around but yet the streets are not patrolled by unmanned aircrafts? or a fire put out by a team of cooperating drones? Until then (10 years?) Jeff is just advertising himself, a day before cyber Monday (like article is indicating) and as usually he's doing great job!
[+] [-] mentos|12 years ago|reply
So far in just the HN threads, I've read some pretty innovative ideas (QR code landing pads that homes can setup for the drones). I'm pretty sure with the hive mind of the internet this problem can be solved by the collective engineer/lawyer/politician/etc
We put men on the moon I think we can put amazon packages in people's backyards!
[+] [-] venomsnake|12 years ago|reply