I earned a perfect score on the SAT and was voted "Class Genius" in the yearbook, but barely graduated from high school. I was dismissed from university.
I went to work for a machine learning company, where we (self included!) did some really neat stuff, including some heroic pre-sales-meeting coding that saved the day in a minor way. But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement.
- a) I may have something, but at least I am lucid. This is an understandable HN comment. I write many of them, and they seem to get ok ratings.
- b) I have spent, and could spend, a lot of time trying to nail down exactly what's up with me. I have very little to show for it.
So I'm trying to just capitalize on the "lucid" part. I'm building stuff. I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached.
I have a similar history to yours (except GenX not millenial). I've built a decent career for myself, but have always struggled with SAD and bipolar symptoms. When I feel good I'm sure it's something I can control, but as soon as it sneaks up, my life goes into self-destruction mode. I always feel bad about complaining about the effect this has on my life as my income is typically in the top 10% in the U.S., but still feel most of my potential gets lost in the struggle.
What I find frustrating is discussing with doctors that not all focusing difficulties are caused by depression. I do experience periods of (unipolar) depression.
One thing that I notice among "smart" people is that its easy to burn-out.
My only real advice is aim to do things that your passionate about. Two examples that come to mind is Elon Musk[1][2], who clearly enjoys building rockets and electric cards, and Mitch Altman[3] who enjoys making cool things. Elon Musk hasn't commented publicly on ADHD specifically. Mitch is well known for his public discussions on depression.
I am confused by something though. I have only (to my knowledge) known one person that got a perfect score on the SAT. The reason is that it requires both reasoning as well as 'stamp collecting'--(i.e. book knowledge). If you didn't bother to learn all the obscure vocabulary words used on the SAT that most high schoolers don't know--(extol, capricious, etc.)--then you must've been an exceptional reader. Where did you get this other knowledge? Did you just read a lot?
If you 'barely graduated' high school and got dismissed with university, then you must've simply not done the work. I've known plenty of people that were smart, but lazy.
If you are gifted at a young age, it's easy to get relaxed... become lazy and satsified with the easy victories. The only way you can break this cycle is to endeavor to place a hurdle in front of yourself, one that you can't easily jump.
I envy you for having the feeling that you do the best you can do. I'd like to make it a constant, but I can't. I'm so happy for myself when it happens and strangely, I never care about the result - it's liberating.
> Was it brain chemistry? ADD? Millenial entitlement? The Bipolar Lisp personality? Depression? SAD? A once-seen-impossible-to-unsee glimpse of the Gervais Principle?
Oh please, enough with the drama. I've led the same life. So has everyone else here.
I had the foresight to realize my ailment early on.
I'm lazy and bored easily, which is really the same thing.
> But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement.
So people told you were lazy and rather than accept that at face value, you decided you have some sort of a medical condition?
Look, take my advice. Work for yourself and take on short-term projects. Nothing that lasts more than a month or two. That way, by the time you get bored with it, you're on to something entirely different.
> I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached.
Eh? I spoke too soon. Looks like you're already on the right path.
you could previously have just been immature. Now you are doing the self-discovery and learning about yourself properly, and seeing the benefits of knowing your own limitations and strengths. Being a class genius at high school makes you think everything will be easy, when infact it's not. Now you know its not easy (left uni), so you now put in the hours. Good luck on your path to success, you still have the smart brain so it will find its role eventually.
I can strongly identify with your story. However, I have been able to "cure" my ADHD, please read my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6908027 and let me know what you think.
As a person with ADHD, that article was too long to hold my attention (no, I'm not making a joke here).
Also, as a person with ADHD who takes Adderall I don't see what the big fuss about it as a drug/medicine is. It works. I don't (personally) note any side effects, and don't see any reason that I'd stop taking it. Before taking Adderall I was essentially self-medicating my ADHD with copious amounts of coffee on a daily basis. Yet, no one talks about the drug of caffeine in such a negative way.
I wasn't ever diagnosed or treated for ADHD as a kid and I had huge issues with organization and focus in my younger years. I think if I had the 'focus' that I have now due to Adderall that I could have done significantly better in school and in my early career.
With Adderall I am no longer late to everything. I use my calendar effectively. I don't lose things (as much). I get probably 4x the amount of coding done per day. I'm better in conversation. I get through to do lists far quicker (and remember to use the list).
Over diagnosed? Sure. But I don't see why this drug is so demonized, where nicotine, alcohol and caffeine are just kinda standard parts of society and accepted.
I think it's exactly the same thing as coffee, and it's not a medical condition at all.
Coding really IS naturally boring and mind numbing. That's neither your imagination nor subjective experience. No one ever steps through a series of break-points in a debugger, or skims through 1,000 lines of log output, and thinks: "YEAH, MAN! THIS IS REALLY LIVING!" It pretty much requires an altered state to enjoy this stuff.
I think the truth is that modern society measures "success" in radically different and totally unnatural ways now.
The reason pills are used on kids is because they won't reliably drink coffee on their own. Meanwhile, many parents won't subject their kids to substances other than normal, healthy food, unless they're comforted by rational, selfless purpose. Without an appeal to authority, in the form of a soliciting a qualified doctor's auspicious opinion, parents would just let their kids be kids.
The industrialized world is obsessed with abstract achievements, and rigid behavioral norms. Most people have a hard time resisting the trend, and sometimes do so at their own risk. All of it is artificially tied to quality of life (more than survival) by social pressures, so it's not so much survival instinct, so much as it is envy or maybe a desire for inclusion that drives the behavior.
It's not the drug that's demonized, but the fact that it has become a prerequisite for staying competitive and Keeping Up With The Joneses, so to speak.
The article states that most doctors and researchers acknowledge that ADHD is a legitimate disease (as yours seems to be), and that some people should take medication. But they are protesting the vast over-diagnosis of the condition, and the push for medication to fix symptoms that are common in most people.
Also, though you might not notice any side effects, the article discusses that the side effects can be substantial (trouble sleeping, loss of appetite, sometimes suicidal thoughts), and that they are typically vastly understated in advertisements. The drug can be addictive too.
This sounds like something to make a big fuss about. If the opposition is to be believed (and I think it is), children are being vastly over-medicated with strong drugs based on bad science and misleading advertising.
> Also, as a person with ADHD who takes Adderall I don't see what the big fuss about it as a drug/medicine is.
> Over diagnosed? Sure. But I don't see why this drug is so demonized, where nicotine, alcohol and caffeine are just kinda standard parts of society and accepted.
the fuss is about the pharma industry spending millions upon millions on getting ever more people to take these meds. and for the wrong reasons.
“Medicines may make it easier to pay attention and control your behavior!”
"Adderall XR Improves Academic Performance"
these are statements that hold true for EVERYBODY, and not just for people suffering from adhd. that's what stimulants do. the pharma industry is basically trying to get as much people as possible (especially children) hooked on legal stimulants. that's what the fuss is about. it's like marketing opiates as drugs that 'take the edge of'. everybody could do with some of that. most probably on a daily basis.
> Also, as a person with ADHD who takes Adderall I don't see what the big fuss about it as a drug/medicine is.
If you, as a responsible adult, consent to taking this medication on a regular basis, then fair enough. The big fuss is that this is being imposed on a whole generation of children, essentially as a form of behavioural control. It's really the revival of the old Victorian "little children should be seen, not heard" mindset, under the guise of medical treatment. Children misbehave at school for a variety of reasons. Instead of dealing with the often institutional causes of this problem, we lay the blame at the children's door and try to medicate them into docility.
Over diagnosed? Sure. But I don't see why this drug is so demonized
Nobody dislikes Adderall. If you need it, I've never met anyone who would begrudge taking it. The demonization is of over diagnosis; Adderall is the poster-child.
I don't know if I really have ADD. There's no real physiological test for it, just self-assessments and the rejection of the null hypothesis upon the introduction of various drugs.
What I do know: until I started treatment for ADD, the entire concept of "willpower" or "motivation" just didn't make sense to me. It was something other people had, maybe; or perhaps they were lying. But with treatment, "motivating myself" into doing things for merely their effects on my long-term goals is a perfectly obvious thing to do. It's very similar to what it felt like to go through puberty and gain a sex drive—but what I've gained is a drive to succeed in life.
Watching my own behaviour, introspectively, is fascinating. I keep expecting to hear a little voice that says "eh, that's too much effort; it makes me tired just to think of doing that." That voice was a persistent companion for most of my life. Now, that voice is just not there.
It would be great if we could experiment upon you. Every three months we'd start you on a new regime of pills. You wouldn't know if they were meds or placebo. The people giving them to you wouldn't know either. The people writing the report wouldn't know, until after they'd written the report.
Obviously we can't do this. But I dearly love to know what the results would be.
For what it's worth: I suspect you would tell the difference between placebo and med. I'm not so sure about everyone taking those meds.
Huh? There are most certainly proper tests for ADD, of all of types and varieties. It is unfortunate that self reporting is the most frequently used diagnostic technique, but it is by no means the only one. Heck there are structural brain differences in people with ADHD that can be detected!
I recently talked to my doctor about possibly having ADHD and when he asked me what brought me to seek help I mentioned that I had read some success stories on the internet. Stories about people who first described my symptoms and then described the incredible success they had achieved with Adderall or Concerta. I was referring in part to comments I had read here on Hacker News in the past.
He suggested that at least some of this could be attributed to advertising by drug companies and the agencies that represent them. That these days, with most people first turning to the internet before a doctor when it comes to health issues, a new guerrilla style of marketing had become increasingly popular. Something to keep in mind.
ADHD is overdiagnosed and is often used as a catch all solution for boys being boys. Our school system simply does not approve of kids having energy, being a bit aggressive and playful.
That said, as an author, I have focused on adult ADHD. In adults, it is often overlooked, and is estimated at around 4.4% prevalence ratio (the reasonable figures I've seen range from 4-5%.)
Treatment of ADHD can be lifechanging and allow someone to succeed where they were struggling and suffering before.
> Treatment of ADHD can be lifechanging and allow someone to succeed where they were struggling and suffering before.
This. 1000 times this. At 33, I didn't think I could just now be diagnosed for ADHD. Low and behold, I have ADHD and OCD. Being able to get help for both...
Yeah, life changing is a good way to describe it.
You mention you are an author focused on adult ADHD. If you ever want to talk, I'm more than happy to share. If I can help one other person like me, it would make all the struggle worth while.
As someone with deep experience in this field once explained to me, "The big drug companies don't sell cures. They sell diseases." By which he of course meant they sell the idea of the disease, for which -- if whipped up to be scary and believable enough -- the consumer won't hesitate to reach out to "cure."
"As late as 1975, nursing textbooks did not include herpes as it was considered no worse than a common cold. After the development of acyclovir in the 1970s, the drug company Burroughs Wellcome launched an extensive marketing campaign that publicized the illness, including creating victim's support groups."
The disease model is a horribly leaky abstraction for behavioral and personality problems. There is a world of difference between "I have a condition, with both benefits and drawbacks, which I need to manage" and "I have a disease that needs to be treated with medication". High-functioning autism has begun to be understood as belonging more to the first camp than the second; I would hope someday that we view many more things that way as well.
One of the oldest examples of this phenomenon I can think of is how halitosis wasn't considered nearly as much of a problem before the promotion of Listerine as a cure for it in the 1920s.
Something that was briefly mention but not really explored in the article is the amount of abuse of drugs like adderall among students, specifically students in advanced placement and gifted programs.
Speaking as a high school student taking finals in the coming week, I'd estimate that around 30% (roughly) of my peers are taking adderall at some point in the coming week without any kind of prescription or oversight. It's not like it's difficult for them to get said drugs; as the article states 1 in 7 people are diagnosed with ADHD by the time they're 18.
What that means is that you've got teenagers taking serious prescription medication without knowing what an appropriate dosage is and possible side-effects, and you have students who actually need said medication to stay focused and productive selling it and not taking it.
The sad part is that this isn't addressed at all. Most of these students are great kids placing in the top 10% of their class and thus it's assumed that they're somehow immune to substance abuse. All of the drug education focused at students assumes that teenagers are doing drugs or drinking for recreation and doesn't touch on prescription abuse and better ways of dealing with things like over-scheduling and stress.
I think the underlying problem with our society's approach to mental health, is that people are still too judgmental.
Mental health simply creates a category of people who are immune from judgement on certain issues. Not that there is no stigma associated with mental illness, but the categories are "sold" as relieving the person from other people's unfair judgements. Even if other people still judge, at least the diagnosed person knows for themself that the judgement is unfair.
But this is really just a hack. If a person tends not to concentrate easily, we should take that as the base fact in itself. Rather than trying to make a false distinction between a failure of character or willpower, and something outside of people's control, we should be accommodating of people's abilities, and focus on helping people to achieve the best no matter what the source of their learning problems.
Of course there is one issue that is harder to deal with this way, and that is academic assessment. I think the solution to this is for academic assessment to measure as closely as possible the skills that the trained person should be able to implement. Time constraints are a part of any work, so I think providing extra time for people with ADD is unfair, but in general exams shouldn't place an excessive focus on speed or time management.
I don't suffer from ADD/ADHD but I grew up during the 90's, when lots of kids in school, around me, were being put on all kinds of prescription medication, but most prevalent were the ADD/ADHD prescriptions.
Of the roughly 20 names I can remember, who I know for a fact were prescribed ADD/ADHD medications, AND who I knew growing up both before the medication and after, there was only one guy that obviously had problems, and he was a jerk in general, and I avoided him as a rule, regardless of whatever medical attention he may have been receiving. I'm convinced that the rest were pretty much plied with drugs in the name of school grades, and there was no medical basis for their "treatment". I'm sure there were many more than the ones I knew.
Years later, now that I am hopelessly dependent on my morning coffee, and can look back on past events equipped with a firm understanding of the nature of stimulants and their affects, from both a therapeutic and recreational perspective, I am all the more convinced that doctors are providing performance enhancing drugs as study aids, where no medical condition exists. Some weak-willed parents are simply swept up in the sales pitch and follow trends like mindless zombies, and other zealously ambitious parents don't even think twice about subjecting their kids to unnecessary medicine if it means success and bragging rights at dinner parties. Still other parents know what the drugs do based on first hand experience, and feel no qualms about providing their kids with something they'd readily consume themselves.
The only thing that gnaws at me, is that in quiet suburban parlance, people will happily refer to prescribing their kids "meds" with jaunty, upbeat names conceived by marketing departments, but never EVER will anybody admit to what's really going on. The first time I found a bottle of generic medication in my friend's bathroom medicine cabinet, the reality of all this dawned on me.
AMPHETAMINE SALTS, 20MG
After years and years of middle school D.A.R.E. seminars, where local sheriffs brought in the folding display cases packed with examples of marijuana, blotter acid, coke vials and packets of crystal meth; after all the TV and radio public service announcements, after school specials, very special episodes of such-and-such-sitcoms, sunday school sermons, and heart-to-heart conversations with adults I could trust; after all the music videos, and tabloid coverage of celebrity scandals, episodes of Jerry Springer, and everything else, there in my hands I held doctor-prescribed amphetamines that my friend had been taking daily since he was a kid.
It was then that was when I realized everyone around me, young and old, all of them were just a huge band of highly-skilled bullshit artists.
Can you provide a definition for this? I'm fucking sick of people going through this process:
1. Struggle to understand someone's problem.
2. Give up.
3. Blame the victim.
If you see a problem, fix it. But nothing in your comment was at all helpful for the same people you were criticizing. This may come as a shock to you, but people struggle from different problems than you do. Some of them may seem easier to you because you don't experience the same thing.
Amphetamine is not a bad word, much like Nuclear, Fat or Hacker. It's all in how and what it is used for. I have no idea how much Ampetamine is in Crystal Meth or other illegal substances (Google wasn't very helpful with this, I'm sure as always, somebody here on HN knows), but just because something has Amphetamine does not automatically make it a bad thing.
I take steroids for allergies. Did you know that methamphetamine is also an effective ADHD drug? Cocaine is a great painkiller for facial/nasal injuries. Then again, there's a whole class of illicit drugs that make effective painkillers.
The point is, just because your DARE teacher told you to to say no to something doesn't mean that a doctor shouldn't prescribe it and a patient shouldn't take it. Sometimes, drugs that are harmful in the wrong dose are good when prescribed and taken correctly.
It could be that, or perhaps these substances "without accepted medical value" have been vilified for years without adequate rational thought, and in fact help certain people live normal lives.
I wonder if the label on a hepatotoxin such as "ACETAMINOPHEN, 400MG" gives you pause.
Just because they didn't "obviously have problems" doesn't mean they didn't.
They are amphetamines but so what? It's a much lower dose, prescribed by a doctor, and is not considered to be addictive. A lot of bad drugs are/have been used in medicine.
The main issue here is that people that don't fit the norm get labeled as sick - either (or both) by themselves and by society, and drugs will make you or your kids 'normal'. Or 'better', as some of those ads are trying to tell you. We live in a meritocracy, and if you're not able to be awesome, you need to be treated.
ADD and ADHD are both horribly overdiagnosed conditions. Kids will be hyperactive and hard to control, either by themselves or depending on what you fed them fifteen minutes earlier (sugar).
I could rant more, but it's late and my brain's fried.
This is a throwaway account. This piece is outrageous. It is not about the selling of ADHD, it's about the selling of ADHD medications, which are useful for everyone. There should be a discussion about their use in the general population, for improving concentration, focus, memory, and behavior. This would not actually be a discussion about ADHD.
I hate that these news pieces gloss over the importance of understanding, diagnosis, and treatment of actual ADHD. I think we have an epidemic of ADHDDDD. ADHD Definition Deficit Disorder. If you have the following symptoms:
1. You think ADHD is not real.
2. You think everyone has ADHD.
3. You think ADHD's status as a disorder is up for debate.
4. You think ADHD is just overdiagnosed, and not also dangerously underdiagnosed.
You may be suffering from ADHDDDD.
The best way to sort all of this confusion and controversy out is to educate people about what ADHD really is, with detailed information about individual cases [1]. Let's focus on the people who are actually suffering, instead of all the people who are both inappropriately buying and selling the disease. Proper knowledge of the former would lead to a self-regulation of the latter. If people actually knew how ADHD really manifests, then we'd stop flinging and/or sullying this useful clinical label.
I have adult ADHD and am in my late twenties. I was an amazing student as a kid. I am a software engineer at Google. I have no problems with the law or with substance abuse. I do have lots of problems though. I was diagnosed recently and started treatment, so I have not been impacted by a lifetime of "selling the disease", but I have always been impacted by a lifetime of the disease itself. My life is fucking weird. I just learned how to tie my shoes. I can't eat without making a mess. I talk to myself to keep myself stimulated. I could go on and on. Most people can barely fathom some of these behaviors.
If what you or your loved ones are dealing with is not really fierce and bizarre, then you can dismiss your concerns about ADHD. Regardless, if you have problems that might be addressed with stimulants, welcome to the club.
I have often thought that if Einstein was a young person in a public school today they would probably put him on ritalin. It also appears there are a lot of dangerous side effects to these drugs that I think may be causing some of the things in the news lately, I tried posting some articles about this issue but it got blocked probably because some of the language getting snagged by HN's key word filters maybe.
Einstein had all kinds of struggles in his personal life. Maybe he could have been happier and even more productive. Don't be selfish and cruel to Einstein. He's not your physics monkey. He deserved happiness as well.
There's a major black market at my college (top 10 liberal arts) for Ritalin and Adderall. At least half the students I know have, at some point, taken it as a study tool. It's super frustrating for the kids of have ADHD, because they need it to get on par with other students. Then other students take it to get another leg up.
I'm European, I live in Greece/Italy/Czech Republic. We don't we have ADHD or ADD as a notion in Europe.
I'm having a hard time believing that it's an actual problem. But on the other hand dismissing easily something that people here believe they are affected from, it's wrong.
I've been on adderall for awhile, and while it has had a marked positive effect on my ability to focus (which has been life changing), the negative side effects suck. I've looked into DIY biofeedback setups, and look forward to the day cheap off-the-shelf biofeedback setups become available for treating ADHD.
(Using a throw away account because of the stigma)
For those who are curious if ADHD is real? I can tell you, from my personal experience, it is.
I grew up with it all my life. It is hell. Then I randomly decided to try Paleo (cutting out gluten, sugar, grain and caffeine). And my ADHD is gone. I can focus, my mental fog is lifted, my lethargy is gone, I have the ability to enjoy normal activities.
* My personal Proof: In the last 2 years about 15 times I have cheated on my Paleo diet, by eating bread or a decent amount of sugar. About 12 out of 15 of those times my brain chemistry was quickly affected. I had my old impairments and extreme inability to focus.
* I realize the causes for ADHD for me are not necessarily the same as others. It's probably a host of causes that affect the brain in a similar way. However, I am sure there are more people out there who are like me. FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE MY ALLERGY TO GLUTEN: ADHD IS A REAL DISEASE. AND IT IS HELL.
## What it feels like to have ADD/ADHD
Because I can intentionally turn off my ADHD by eating Paleo or turn it back on, like clock work by eating grain or sugar, I can tell you what having ADHD is like in a very exact way.
# Eating Paleo for 3 weeks straight (no ADHD):
I still don’t feel like doing work often time. Some time work sounds fun and some time it doesn’t. Its the same feeling I saw most my peers in college have towards work.
If I don’t feel like doing something I really have to find a reason to make my self do it. (Basically the standard thing non ADD people say).
# With ADHD (eating a piece of bread)
Unexplainable feeling of mental uncomfortableness (EXTREME, HORRIBLE, and PAINFUL boredom) that can only be slightly assuaged with heavy distraction.
Want to know what it feels like?
- Imagine being on a 10 hour flight that just landed, you can’t wait to get up and walk out into the terminal, however, each person in front of you is taking longer and longer to get their stuff. Before you know it you have been sitting in your seat for over an hour waiting to get off. You are sitting in your seat unable to comfort your feelings of boredom and discomfort with the wait. Now multiply that negative feeling by 10. You might start to be rude to people just so that you have something to distract your pain with. You might start making dumb noises so people will stair at you and give you attention. This attention will help distract the unfathomable boredom/pain you are feeling.
(In one of my college classes I would take my rolling chair and go up and down a slight ramp in the class room while the teacher was giving lecture. I knew I was being and idiot. I knew I wanted to pay attention to the teacher and learn. However, the brief and little relief this distraction gave me was incredibly tempting. I would rather do things that made me feel pathetic than feel the pain of ADHD.)
- Imagine your mental capacity to think and remember words is cut by about 20-50%
- Imagine your motivation to work towards your dreams is cut by about 20-50%
- Imagine you can’t think of anything in the world that would excite you. Everything seems so un entertaining and boring. And this is not depression. I can be extremely happy and simply just eat a piece of bread and my whole mental mood changes. I feel like I am under a drug that gives me ADHD. It doesn’t make me depressed. It just makes everything seem so un satisfying (in regards to entertainment). Growing up I couldn’t play video games longer than 20 mins, even for the most critically acclaimed games, I would become mind numbingly bored.
So thats what having ADHD is like, its REAL (well I can only speak for myself).
I’m probably a lot like many people here reading this on HN: I am extremely smart but struggled in school due to my ADHD. I got good grades in physics classes such as special relativity and decent grades in advanced math classes such as calc III. In spite of my ADHD. I wouldn’t study or do homework. Well sometimes I would copy homework. And luckily I took enough a way from lecture to get good grades on the tests.
However, I never ended up finishing my degree because as time went on I couldn’t keep up the good grades as my programming classes depended more on more doing actual work. I remember getting an B in systems programming in C class because I set the curve on all the tests. I finished many of the programs (starting the night before they were do), however I didn’t even turn in the last three programs (I felt so pathetic). But soon the demands in classes start to become greater. They weren’t just programs I could do in a 12 hour marathon the night before. I even tried 5 different ADHD drugs over a 1.5 year period, none of them really helped enough to be worth the side affects. I didn't like not feeling like myself and the ups and downs as the drugs take affect and then wear off. Though, god damn it did feel nice to finally not feel the pain of ADHD for a few hours. I
I ended up dropping out, however, luckily a few years later I discovered Paleo. I now wake up at 5am every morning. I am writing a book in the mornings and I am a lead dev at a great company where I easily put in an 8-9 hour a day every day. (When I was in college I interned at Microsoft I couldn’t work for more than about 2 hours a day and I wouldn’t even stay on the campus for more than 4-6 hours out of the horrible pain of the boredom.) I would arrive at work around 10:30 am, take a 1.5 lunch and then leave by 2pm or 3pm and head back to my company provided apartment. I hated my self and it was horrible. Now, I am proud of my self and love doing 10-11 hour days of work (including the book). And I don’t take any drugs, I don’t even drink coffee or tea! Zero caffeine.
This person’s book http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7E973zozc and listening to music is my caffeine. If I don’t feel like starting some work, I remember that "doing the things I don’t feel like doing is the only way I will get the things I want". I then put on my headphones and listen to music that pumps me up. After a few minutes I get into my work and have a hard time remembering to stop for lunch.
# Final Words
So if you think you have ADHD please try Paleo for 30 days, then eat a meal with a bunch of bread and sugar. See if you see an instant stark change in your mental make up. The easiest (so probably the most effective) way to eat Paleo for 30 days is to buy a bunch of meal sized Tupperware, each week go to costco and find some cooked meat (chicken, pulled pork, etc) with no sauces or added wheat. Just meat. Buy some different frozen vegetables (no white potatoes), buy some cooked sweet potatoes or squash, buy some fruit for snacks. Make your 14 lunches and dinners on Sunday. Put them in your fridge and bring your lunch to work. I also make scrambled eggs for 7 days on Sunday and put them in Tupperware. If you have prepped food you are much more likely to succeed against the temptations of cheating. Know: the first 5 days of taking sugar and grain out of your diet are going to be the hardest you will be hit with withdrawals. For some people this feels like getting the flu!
More info about Paleo (know this diet has become a fad, not all websites promoting the “pale diet” are actually promoting the real diet. I recommend, at least initially, only using Loren Cordain, PH.D as a source for information. His book “The Paleo Diet" is great. http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/paleo-diet-craze-pt-1
How come that children in, say India have survived without any medication or even diagnostic of A.D.H.D?)
The answer is, probably, in that the environment and conditioning has a much more to do with these dynamics than medication, so in a less stressed and more friendly environment (which Hindu/Buddhist communities traditionally have) such "disorders" are "self-corrected" by some natural behavioral "therapy", and, perhaps, much less frequently developed in the first place.
In contrast, in social shitholes like Russia number of so-called "problem children" is uncounted, and traditionally the traits described in DSM for a full spectrum of so-called "disorders" are considered quite normal. It is very common scene in Russia when a kid cries "hysterically" non-stop, while parents just scream back or and hit them. This is not exactly A.D.H.D case, but an illustration of what environment does.)
hint: before down-voting try to estimate the population of Hindu and Buddhist countries, which accounts, roughly, to a half of the population of the globe, compared to 300MM of Americans.))
[+] [-] invalidOrTaken|12 years ago|reply
I earned a perfect score on the SAT and was voted "Class Genius" in the yearbook, but barely graduated from high school. I was dismissed from university.
I went to work for a machine learning company, where we (self included!) did some really neat stuff, including some heroic pre-sales-meeting coding that saved the day in a minor way. But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement.
Was it brain chemistry? ADD? Millenial entitlement? The Bipolar Lisp personality? Depression? SAD? A once-seen-impossible-to-unsee glimpse of the Gervais Principle? (http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...)
Who knows.
What I do know is that
- a) I may have something, but at least I am lucid. This is an understandable HN comment. I write many of them, and they seem to get ok ratings.
- b) I have spent, and could spend, a lot of time trying to nail down exactly what's up with me. I have very little to show for it.
So I'm trying to just capitalize on the "lucid" part. I'm building stuff. I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached.
It's the best I can do.
[+] [-] modfodder|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neurotech1|12 years ago|reply
One thing that I notice among "smart" people is that its easy to burn-out.
My only real advice is aim to do things that your passionate about. Two examples that come to mind is Elon Musk[1][2], who clearly enjoys building rockets and electric cards, and Mitch Altman[3] who enjoys making cool things. Elon Musk hasn't commented publicly on ADHD specifically. Mitch is well known for his public discussions on depression.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk
[2] http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2012/05/24/elon-musk-...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Altman
[+] [-] Shinkei|12 years ago|reply
I am confused by something though. I have only (to my knowledge) known one person that got a perfect score on the SAT. The reason is that it requires both reasoning as well as 'stamp collecting'--(i.e. book knowledge). If you didn't bother to learn all the obscure vocabulary words used on the SAT that most high schoolers don't know--(extol, capricious, etc.)--then you must've been an exceptional reader. Where did you get this other knowledge? Did you just read a lot?
If you 'barely graduated' high school and got dismissed with university, then you must've simply not done the work. I've known plenty of people that were smart, but lazy.
If you are gifted at a young age, it's easy to get relaxed... become lazy and satsified with the easy victories. The only way you can break this cycle is to endeavor to place a hurdle in front of yourself, one that you can't easily jump.
[+] [-] atmosx|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maratd|12 years ago|reply
Oh please, enough with the drama. I've led the same life. So has everyone else here.
I had the foresight to realize my ailment early on.
I'm lazy and bored easily, which is really the same thing.
> But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement.
So people told you were lazy and rather than accept that at face value, you decided you have some sort of a medical condition?
Look, take my advice. Work for yourself and take on short-term projects. Nothing that lasts more than a month or two. That way, by the time you get bored with it, you're on to something entirely different.
> I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached.
Eh? I spoke too soon. Looks like you're already on the right path.
[+] [-] tlarkworthy|12 years ago|reply
you could previously have just been immature. Now you are doing the self-discovery and learning about yourself properly, and seeing the benefits of knowing your own limitations and strengths. Being a class genius at high school makes you think everything will be easy, when infact it's not. Now you know its not easy (left uni), so you now put in the hours. Good luck on your path to success, you still have the smart brain so it will find its role eventually.
[+] [-] ThrowAway9392|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tibbon|12 years ago|reply
Also, as a person with ADHD who takes Adderall I don't see what the big fuss about it as a drug/medicine is. It works. I don't (personally) note any side effects, and don't see any reason that I'd stop taking it. Before taking Adderall I was essentially self-medicating my ADHD with copious amounts of coffee on a daily basis. Yet, no one talks about the drug of caffeine in such a negative way.
I wasn't ever diagnosed or treated for ADHD as a kid and I had huge issues with organization and focus in my younger years. I think if I had the 'focus' that I have now due to Adderall that I could have done significantly better in school and in my early career.
With Adderall I am no longer late to everything. I use my calendar effectively. I don't lose things (as much). I get probably 4x the amount of coding done per day. I'm better in conversation. I get through to do lists far quicker (and remember to use the list).
Over diagnosed? Sure. But I don't see why this drug is so demonized, where nicotine, alcohol and caffeine are just kinda standard parts of society and accepted.
[+] [-] negativity|12 years ago|reply
Coding really IS naturally boring and mind numbing. That's neither your imagination nor subjective experience. No one ever steps through a series of break-points in a debugger, or skims through 1,000 lines of log output, and thinks: "YEAH, MAN! THIS IS REALLY LIVING!" It pretty much requires an altered state to enjoy this stuff.
I think the truth is that modern society measures "success" in radically different and totally unnatural ways now.
Look back at history, and there's a famous correlation between the introduction of coffee, tea and chocolate to Europe, and the age of enlightenment. (https://encrypted.google.com/#q=caffeine+enlightenment+histo...)
The reason pills are used on kids is because they won't reliably drink coffee on their own. Meanwhile, many parents won't subject their kids to substances other than normal, healthy food, unless they're comforted by rational, selfless purpose. Without an appeal to authority, in the form of a soliciting a qualified doctor's auspicious opinion, parents would just let their kids be kids.
The industrialized world is obsessed with abstract achievements, and rigid behavioral norms. Most people have a hard time resisting the trend, and sometimes do so at their own risk. All of it is artificially tied to quality of life (more than survival) by social pressures, so it's not so much survival instinct, so much as it is envy or maybe a desire for inclusion that drives the behavior.
It's not the drug that's demonized, but the fact that it has become a prerequisite for staying competitive and Keeping Up With The Joneses, so to speak.
[+] [-] sd8f9iu|12 years ago|reply
Also, though you might not notice any side effects, the article discusses that the side effects can be substantial (trouble sleeping, loss of appetite, sometimes suicidal thoughts), and that they are typically vastly understated in advertisements. The drug can be addictive too.
This sounds like something to make a big fuss about. If the opposition is to be believed (and I think it is), children are being vastly over-medicated with strong drugs based on bad science and misleading advertising.
[+] [-] enkephalin|12 years ago|reply
> Over diagnosed? Sure. But I don't see why this drug is so demonized, where nicotine, alcohol and caffeine are just kinda standard parts of society and accepted.
the fuss is about the pharma industry spending millions upon millions on getting ever more people to take these meds. and for the wrong reasons.
“Medicines may make it easier to pay attention and control your behavior!”
"Adderall XR Improves Academic Performance"
these are statements that hold true for EVERYBODY, and not just for people suffering from adhd. that's what stimulants do. the pharma industry is basically trying to get as much people as possible (especially children) hooked on legal stimulants. that's what the fuss is about. it's like marketing opiates as drugs that 'take the edge of'. everybody could do with some of that. most probably on a daily basis.
[+] [-] atlantic|12 years ago|reply
If you, as a responsible adult, consent to taking this medication on a regular basis, then fair enough. The big fuss is that this is being imposed on a whole generation of children, essentially as a form of behavioural control. It's really the revival of the old Victorian "little children should be seen, not heard" mindset, under the guise of medical treatment. Children misbehave at school for a variety of reasons. Instead of dealing with the often institutional causes of this problem, we lay the blame at the children's door and try to medicate them into docility.
[+] [-] sliverstorm|12 years ago|reply
Nobody dislikes Adderall. If you need it, I've never met anyone who would begrudge taking it. The demonization is of over diagnosis; Adderall is the poster-child.
[+] [-] derefr|12 years ago|reply
What I do know: until I started treatment for ADD, the entire concept of "willpower" or "motivation" just didn't make sense to me. It was something other people had, maybe; or perhaps they were lying. But with treatment, "motivating myself" into doing things for merely their effects on my long-term goals is a perfectly obvious thing to do. It's very similar to what it felt like to go through puberty and gain a sex drive—but what I've gained is a drive to succeed in life.
Watching my own behaviour, introspectively, is fascinating. I keep expecting to hear a little voice that says "eh, that's too much effort; it makes me tired just to think of doing that." That voice was a persistent companion for most of my life. Now, that voice is just not there.
[+] [-] DanBC|12 years ago|reply
Obviously we can't do this. But I dearly love to know what the results would be.
For what it's worth: I suspect you would tell the difference between placebo and med. I'm not so sure about everyone taking those meds.
[+] [-] com2kid|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flycaliguy|12 years ago|reply
He suggested that at least some of this could be attributed to advertising by drug companies and the agencies that represent them. That these days, with most people first turning to the internet before a doctor when it comes to health issues, a new guerrilla style of marketing had become increasingly popular. Something to keep in mind.
[+] [-] harvestmoon|12 years ago|reply
That said, as an author, I have focused on adult ADHD. In adults, it is often overlooked, and is estimated at around 4.4% prevalence ratio (the reasonable figures I've seen range from 4-5%.)
Treatment of ADHD can be lifechanging and allow someone to succeed where they were struggling and suffering before.
[+] [-] jasonlotito|12 years ago|reply
This. 1000 times this. At 33, I didn't think I could just now be diagnosed for ADHD. Low and behold, I have ADHD and OCD. Being able to get help for both...
Yeah, life changing is a good way to describe it.
You mention you are an author focused on adult ADHD. If you ever want to talk, I'm more than happy to share. If I can help one other person like me, it would make all the struggle worth while.
[+] [-] bonemachine|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] md224|12 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_genitalis#History
[+] [-] lukifer|12 years ago|reply
The disease model is a horribly leaky abstraction for behavioral and personality problems. There is a world of difference between "I have a condition, with both benefits and drawbacks, which I need to manage" and "I have a disease that needs to be treated with medication". High-functioning autism has begun to be understood as belonging more to the first camp than the second; I would hope someday that we view many more things that way as well.
[+] [-] pmjordan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cenhyperion|12 years ago|reply
Speaking as a high school student taking finals in the coming week, I'd estimate that around 30% (roughly) of my peers are taking adderall at some point in the coming week without any kind of prescription or oversight. It's not like it's difficult for them to get said drugs; as the article states 1 in 7 people are diagnosed with ADHD by the time they're 18.
What that means is that you've got teenagers taking serious prescription medication without knowing what an appropriate dosage is and possible side-effects, and you have students who actually need said medication to stay focused and productive selling it and not taking it.
The sad part is that this isn't addressed at all. Most of these students are great kids placing in the top 10% of their class and thus it's assumed that they're somehow immune to substance abuse. All of the drug education focused at students assumes that teenagers are doing drugs or drinking for recreation and doesn't touch on prescription abuse and better ways of dealing with things like over-scheduling and stress.
[+] [-] yetanotherphd|12 years ago|reply
Mental health simply creates a category of people who are immune from judgement on certain issues. Not that there is no stigma associated with mental illness, but the categories are "sold" as relieving the person from other people's unfair judgements. Even if other people still judge, at least the diagnosed person knows for themself that the judgement is unfair.
But this is really just a hack. If a person tends not to concentrate easily, we should take that as the base fact in itself. Rather than trying to make a false distinction between a failure of character or willpower, and something outside of people's control, we should be accommodating of people's abilities, and focus on helping people to achieve the best no matter what the source of their learning problems.
Of course there is one issue that is harder to deal with this way, and that is academic assessment. I think the solution to this is for academic assessment to measure as closely as possible the skills that the trained person should be able to implement. Time constraints are a part of any work, so I think providing extra time for people with ADD is unfair, but in general exams shouldn't place an excessive focus on speed or time management.
[+] [-] negativity|12 years ago|reply
Of the roughly 20 names I can remember, who I know for a fact were prescribed ADD/ADHD medications, AND who I knew growing up both before the medication and after, there was only one guy that obviously had problems, and he was a jerk in general, and I avoided him as a rule, regardless of whatever medical attention he may have been receiving. I'm convinced that the rest were pretty much plied with drugs in the name of school grades, and there was no medical basis for their "treatment". I'm sure there were many more than the ones I knew.
Years later, now that I am hopelessly dependent on my morning coffee, and can look back on past events equipped with a firm understanding of the nature of stimulants and their affects, from both a therapeutic and recreational perspective, I am all the more convinced that doctors are providing performance enhancing drugs as study aids, where no medical condition exists. Some weak-willed parents are simply swept up in the sales pitch and follow trends like mindless zombies, and other zealously ambitious parents don't even think twice about subjecting their kids to unnecessary medicine if it means success and bragging rights at dinner parties. Still other parents know what the drugs do based on first hand experience, and feel no qualms about providing their kids with something they'd readily consume themselves.
The only thing that gnaws at me, is that in quiet suburban parlance, people will happily refer to prescribing their kids "meds" with jaunty, upbeat names conceived by marketing departments, but never EVER will anybody admit to what's really going on. The first time I found a bottle of generic medication in my friend's bathroom medicine cabinet, the reality of all this dawned on me.
After years and years of middle school D.A.R.E. seminars, where local sheriffs brought in the folding display cases packed with examples of marijuana, blotter acid, coke vials and packets of crystal meth; after all the TV and radio public service announcements, after school specials, very special episodes of such-and-such-sitcoms, sunday school sermons, and heart-to-heart conversations with adults I could trust; after all the music videos, and tabloid coverage of celebrity scandals, episodes of Jerry Springer, and everything else, there in my hands I held doctor-prescribed amphetamines that my friend had been taking daily since he was a kid.It was then that was when I realized everyone around me, young and old, all of them were just a huge band of highly-skilled bullshit artists.
[+] [-] duaneb|12 years ago|reply
Can you provide a definition for this? I'm fucking sick of people going through this process:
1. Struggle to understand someone's problem.
2. Give up.
3. Blame the victim.
If you see a problem, fix it. But nothing in your comment was at all helpful for the same people you were criticizing. This may come as a shock to you, but people struggle from different problems than you do. Some of them may seem easier to you because you don't experience the same thing.
[+] [-] pedalpete|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j_baker|12 years ago|reply
The point is, just because your DARE teacher told you to to say no to something doesn't mean that a doctor shouldn't prescribe it and a patient shouldn't take it. Sometimes, drugs that are harmful in the wrong dose are good when prescribed and taken correctly.
[+] [-] lfuller|12 years ago|reply
I wonder if the label on a hepatotoxin such as "ACETAMINOPHEN, 400MG" gives you pause.
[+] [-] Houshalter|12 years ago|reply
They are amphetamines but so what? It's a much lower dose, prescribed by a doctor, and is not considered to be addictive. A lot of bad drugs are/have been used in medicine.
[+] [-] thro2|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kordless|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|12 years ago|reply
ADD and ADHD are both horribly overdiagnosed conditions. Kids will be hyperactive and hard to control, either by themselves or depending on what you fed them fifteen minutes earlier (sugar).
I could rant more, but it's late and my brain's fried.
[+] [-] adhdthrowaway|12 years ago|reply
I hate that these news pieces gloss over the importance of understanding, diagnosis, and treatment of actual ADHD. I think we have an epidemic of ADHDDDD. ADHD Definition Deficit Disorder. If you have the following symptoms:
1. You think ADHD is not real. 2. You think everyone has ADHD. 3. You think ADHD's status as a disorder is up for debate. 4. You think ADHD is just overdiagnosed, and not also dangerously underdiagnosed.
You may be suffering from ADHDDDD.
The best way to sort all of this confusion and controversy out is to educate people about what ADHD really is, with detailed information about individual cases [1]. Let's focus on the people who are actually suffering, instead of all the people who are both inappropriately buying and selling the disease. Proper knowledge of the former would lead to a self-regulation of the latter. If people actually knew how ADHD really manifests, then we'd stop flinging and/or sullying this useful clinical label.
I have adult ADHD and am in my late twenties. I was an amazing student as a kid. I am a software engineer at Google. I have no problems with the law or with substance abuse. I do have lots of problems though. I was diagnosed recently and started treatment, so I have not been impacted by a lifetime of "selling the disease", but I have always been impacted by a lifetime of the disease itself. My life is fucking weird. I just learned how to tie my shoes. I can't eat without making a mess. I talk to myself to keep myself stimulated. I could go on and on. Most people can barely fathom some of these behaviors.
If what you or your loved ones are dealing with is not really fierce and bizarre, then you can dismiss your concerns about ADHD. Regardless, if you have problems that might be addressed with stimulants, welcome to the club.
[1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/adhd_prog...
[+] [-] zw123456|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jganetsk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jotm|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] manicbovine|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bsirkia|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atmosx|12 years ago|reply
I'm having a hard time believing that it's an actual problem. But on the other hand dismissing easily something that people here believe they are affected from, it's wrong.
[+] [-] ohwp|12 years ago|reply
http://www.worldpublicunion.org/2013-03-27-NEWS-inventor-of-...
[+] [-] RankingMember|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ikura|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ThrowAway9392|12 years ago|reply
For those who are curious if ADHD is real? I can tell you, from my personal experience, it is.
I grew up with it all my life. It is hell. Then I randomly decided to try Paleo (cutting out gluten, sugar, grain and caffeine). And my ADHD is gone. I can focus, my mental fog is lifted, my lethargy is gone, I have the ability to enjoy normal activities.
* My personal Proof: In the last 2 years about 15 times I have cheated on my Paleo diet, by eating bread or a decent amount of sugar. About 12 out of 15 of those times my brain chemistry was quickly affected. I had my old impairments and extreme inability to focus.
* I realize the causes for ADHD for me are not necessarily the same as others. It's probably a host of causes that affect the brain in a similar way. However, I am sure there are more people out there who are like me. FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE MY ALLERGY TO GLUTEN: ADHD IS A REAL DISEASE. AND IT IS HELL.
## What it feels like to have ADD/ADHD
Because I can intentionally turn off my ADHD by eating Paleo or turn it back on, like clock work by eating grain or sugar, I can tell you what having ADHD is like in a very exact way.
# Eating Paleo for 3 weeks straight (no ADHD):
I still don’t feel like doing work often time. Some time work sounds fun and some time it doesn’t. Its the same feeling I saw most my peers in college have towards work.
If I don’t feel like doing something I really have to find a reason to make my self do it. (Basically the standard thing non ADD people say).
# With ADHD (eating a piece of bread)
Unexplainable feeling of mental uncomfortableness (EXTREME, HORRIBLE, and PAINFUL boredom) that can only be slightly assuaged with heavy distraction.
Want to know what it feels like?
- Imagine being on a 10 hour flight that just landed, you can’t wait to get up and walk out into the terminal, however, each person in front of you is taking longer and longer to get their stuff. Before you know it you have been sitting in your seat for over an hour waiting to get off. You are sitting in your seat unable to comfort your feelings of boredom and discomfort with the wait. Now multiply that negative feeling by 10. You might start to be rude to people just so that you have something to distract your pain with. You might start making dumb noises so people will stair at you and give you attention. This attention will help distract the unfathomable boredom/pain you are feeling.
(In one of my college classes I would take my rolling chair and go up and down a slight ramp in the class room while the teacher was giving lecture. I knew I was being and idiot. I knew I wanted to pay attention to the teacher and learn. However, the brief and little relief this distraction gave me was incredibly tempting. I would rather do things that made me feel pathetic than feel the pain of ADHD.)
- Imagine your mental capacity to think and remember words is cut by about 20-50%
- Imagine your motivation to work towards your dreams is cut by about 20-50%
- Imagine you can’t think of anything in the world that would excite you. Everything seems so un entertaining and boring. And this is not depression. I can be extremely happy and simply just eat a piece of bread and my whole mental mood changes. I feel like I am under a drug that gives me ADHD. It doesn’t make me depressed. It just makes everything seem so un satisfying (in regards to entertainment). Growing up I couldn’t play video games longer than 20 mins, even for the most critically acclaimed games, I would become mind numbingly bored.
So thats what having ADHD is like, its REAL (well I can only speak for myself).
I’m probably a lot like many people here reading this on HN: I am extremely smart but struggled in school due to my ADHD. I got good grades in physics classes such as special relativity and decent grades in advanced math classes such as calc III. In spite of my ADHD. I wouldn’t study or do homework. Well sometimes I would copy homework. And luckily I took enough a way from lecture to get good grades on the tests.
However, I never ended up finishing my degree because as time went on I couldn’t keep up the good grades as my programming classes depended more on more doing actual work. I remember getting an B in systems programming in C class because I set the curve on all the tests. I finished many of the programs (starting the night before they were do), however I didn’t even turn in the last three programs (I felt so pathetic). But soon the demands in classes start to become greater. They weren’t just programs I could do in a 12 hour marathon the night before. I even tried 5 different ADHD drugs over a 1.5 year period, none of them really helped enough to be worth the side affects. I didn't like not feeling like myself and the ups and downs as the drugs take affect and then wear off. Though, god damn it did feel nice to finally not feel the pain of ADHD for a few hours. I
I ended up dropping out, however, luckily a few years later I discovered Paleo. I now wake up at 5am every morning. I am writing a book in the mornings and I am a lead dev at a great company where I easily put in an 8-9 hour a day every day. (When I was in college I interned at Microsoft I couldn’t work for more than about 2 hours a day and I wouldn’t even stay on the campus for more than 4-6 hours out of the horrible pain of the boredom.) I would arrive at work around 10:30 am, take a 1.5 lunch and then leave by 2pm or 3pm and head back to my company provided apartment. I hated my self and it was horrible. Now, I am proud of my self and love doing 10-11 hour days of work (including the book). And I don’t take any drugs, I don’t even drink coffee or tea! Zero caffeine.
This person’s book http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7E973zozc and listening to music is my caffeine. If I don’t feel like starting some work, I remember that "doing the things I don’t feel like doing is the only way I will get the things I want". I then put on my headphones and listen to music that pumps me up. After a few minutes I get into my work and have a hard time remembering to stop for lunch.
# Final Words
So if you think you have ADHD please try Paleo for 30 days, then eat a meal with a bunch of bread and sugar. See if you see an instant stark change in your mental make up. The easiest (so probably the most effective) way to eat Paleo for 30 days is to buy a bunch of meal sized Tupperware, each week go to costco and find some cooked meat (chicken, pulled pork, etc) with no sauces or added wheat. Just meat. Buy some different frozen vegetables (no white potatoes), buy some cooked sweet potatoes or squash, buy some fruit for snacks. Make your 14 lunches and dinners on Sunday. Put them in your fridge and bring your lunch to work. I also make scrambled eggs for 7 days on Sunday and put them in Tupperware. If you have prepped food you are much more likely to succeed against the temptations of cheating. Know: the first 5 days of taking sugar and grain out of your diet are going to be the hardest you will be hit with withdrawals. For some people this feels like getting the flu!
A good primer on the Paleo diet http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/paleo-diet-craze-pt-1
More info about Paleo (know this diet has become a fad, not all websites promoting the “pale diet” are actually promoting the real diet. I recommend, at least initially, only using Loren Cordain, PH.D as a source for information. His book “The Paleo Diet" is great. http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/paleo-diet-craze-pt-1
[+] [-] dschiptsov|12 years ago|reply
The answer is, probably, in that the environment and conditioning has a much more to do with these dynamics than medication, so in a less stressed and more friendly environment (which Hindu/Buddhist communities traditionally have) such "disorders" are "self-corrected" by some natural behavioral "therapy", and, perhaps, much less frequently developed in the first place.
In contrast, in social shitholes like Russia number of so-called "problem children" is uncounted, and traditionally the traits described in DSM for a full spectrum of so-called "disorders" are considered quite normal. It is very common scene in Russia when a kid cries "hysterically" non-stop, while parents just scream back or and hit them. This is not exactly A.D.H.D case, but an illustration of what environment does.)
hint: before down-voting try to estimate the population of Hindu and Buddhist countries, which accounts, roughly, to a half of the population of the globe, compared to 300MM of Americans.))