As a liberal who supports social justice, the social contract, and health care reform and the like, it feels really weird to find myself cheering Freedomworks and tea party types on when we agree on something.
From the outside, the way American politics divides people is strange. The psychology of republicans vs democrats, tpartiers vs big staters seems more like the supporters of a sports team.
When you support a sports team, if your player blatantly breaks the rules, you curse when he gets penalized. However badly they perform, you say they are unlucky and will win next season. When you watch a match with other fans, you feel like you are part of a clan, you feel a sense of belonging. Some people support terrible teams because they like that feeling, and they enjoy getting angry at the other team and its supporters. Sometimes they enjoy it so much they have riots, or at least a punch up.
I'm not saying America is unique, and the... sad cynicism you see in other countries is it's own evil. It's just a bit scary watching the fate of the world be decided like a bar room sports argument.
I guess this comment is a dumb generalization, but that debt ceiling thing really freaked me out.
> From the outside, the way American politics divides people is strange. The psychology of republicans vs democrats, tpartiers vs big staters seems more like the supporters of a sports team.
That's exactly what it's like, and the worst thing (in my opinion) is how it has spread to every facet of American life, so that arguments over factual information are seen the same way. The country as a whole is far more concerned with winning or losing than with the actual significance of the "field" on which their "team" is "playing."
Mind you, given how central sports is to American lifestyles[1], it's not like nobody could have seen this coming. But that doesn't reduce how dangerous it is.
[1] Walk into any American high school. Chances are, the walls are lined with football trophies, and the faculty's letterhead is plastered with logos for the resident teams. The social hierarchy of the students revolves around the star players. Outcasts are called "losers."
Well it's not really about party identification, at least for me. I think poverty and health services are basic rights a rich country can afford. It has nothing to do with who is for it or against it. It's the principle of it, and Freedom works and tea party types are very much on the complete opposite of it. The disagreement on these points are considerable. I am not likely to be convinced that not helping others out is not a matter of social justice and a requirement for participating in our society. Those on the other side seem about as likely to change as I am. I happen to agree with Freedomworks and the Tea party on NSA/and other social-liberty stuff like the war on drugs and not fighting in foreign countries, but that's pretty much the end of it.
You need to understand that the division in American politics is intentional. It's the entire intent of making a dual-party system: to make government less efficient. An efficient government structure with a centralized power base could quickly and easily transform into a tyranny, in theory a decentralized multi-branch dual-/multi- party government would require more time.
If you're a "liberal" in the sense of the classical tradition[1] you should have no problem whatsoever cheering on the tea-party types at times. In fact, it would be highly unusual if you didn't. Well, at least to the extent that the Tea Party had, at one time, a sort of vaguely libertarian bent to it, since classical liberal thought overlaps with libertarian thought in many regards.
But most people who call themselves "liberal" in this day and age aren't, and the term has all but lost any actual meaning. These days, the people calling themselves "liberal" probably ought to use "statist" or "authoritarian" to refer to themselves. shrug
OTOH, the Tea Party these days has become a weird sort of mishmash of populism, anti-incumbent thinking, paleo-convervatism, libertarian thought, and (God|Satan|Allah|Dionysus|Zoroaster|Zeus|Thor|FSM|$DEITY) knows what. I'm not sure the Tea Party "movement" can be said to represent anything in particular anymore.
This is why I am a registered independent. I have a very hard time believing that any rational person can agree with the party line 100%. Now obviously there are disagreements between members within the same party, but the minority is almost always drowned out. So, in effect, if you disagree with your party on any of these big issues you may as well switch teams if you want to do anything about it.
Don't feel too bad, you have more in common with any individual in the US than you might assume based on media coverage. We're all in this together, and we have largely the same concerns. Our differences are not irrelevant, but you shouldn't feel dirty or weird just because you find yourself agreeing with other average Americans about topics of mutual concern.
shubb|12 years ago
When you support a sports team, if your player blatantly breaks the rules, you curse when he gets penalized. However badly they perform, you say they are unlucky and will win next season. When you watch a match with other fans, you feel like you are part of a clan, you feel a sense of belonging. Some people support terrible teams because they like that feeling, and they enjoy getting angry at the other team and its supporters. Sometimes they enjoy it so much they have riots, or at least a punch up.
I'm not saying America is unique, and the... sad cynicism you see in other countries is it's own evil. It's just a bit scary watching the fate of the world be decided like a bar room sports argument.
I guess this comment is a dumb generalization, but that debt ceiling thing really freaked me out.
Hemospectrum|12 years ago
That's exactly what it's like, and the worst thing (in my opinion) is how it has spread to every facet of American life, so that arguments over factual information are seen the same way. The country as a whole is far more concerned with winning or losing than with the actual significance of the "field" on which their "team" is "playing."
Mind you, given how central sports is to American lifestyles[1], it's not like nobody could have seen this coming. But that doesn't reduce how dangerous it is.
[1] Walk into any American high school. Chances are, the walls are lined with football trophies, and the faculty's letterhead is plastered with logos for the resident teams. The social hierarchy of the students revolves around the star players. Outcasts are called "losers."
leokun|12 years ago
trebor|12 years ago
mindcrime|12 years ago
But most people who call themselves "liberal" in this day and age aren't, and the term has all but lost any actual meaning. These days, the people calling themselves "liberal" probably ought to use "statist" or "authoritarian" to refer to themselves. shrug
OTOH, the Tea Party these days has become a weird sort of mishmash of populism, anti-incumbent thinking, paleo-convervatism, libertarian thought, and (God|Satan|Allah|Dionysus|Zoroaster|Zeus|Thor|FSM|$DEITY) knows what. I'm not sure the Tea Party "movement" can be said to represent anything in particular anymore.
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
EpicEng|12 years ago
neltnerb|12 years ago