There is nothing about programming computers that is gender specific; in fact it seems kind of weird and awkward that we have to discuss this at all.
Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constructs that brought this about.
Its not about programming. Or anything to do with the profession. Its has much to do with the culture.
In my first project near impossible work conditions and deadlines were placed on us. Most of us had to make extreme sacrifices(health wise, socially and in many aspects)- The other option was being out of the job. The problem is you need a supporting family. Here in India, its difficult for women at least socially and even in your own family to justify working whole nights, weekends and late hours consistently. You can try to fight that when you are single, it gets near impossible to do that after marriage and kids. Plus women have to take breaks in their 20's and 30's for maternity reasons.
At the other end, super success in software depends on all this start up culture which is very hard on most women.
The other comments here are talking more about the work-life balance issues that might be causing the gender gap... but I personally just think it's to do with parents/relatives, role models, and the time between grade 1 and grade 12.
I myself am a coder because I loved modding games when I was younger. I do like creating things regardless, but I got to that point because a childhood friend shared PC games with me (games that his uncle shared with him)... and then you end up spending a large chunk of your childhood on the computer, so it's natural to progress down that path. But I know both guys and girls that played games like me and chose not to do a career that is computer-related.
It'd be great to have more gender balance in computer science, but actually in all fields too. I found in my art history classes in college that the class was around 80-90% female, for every class I took. This was basically the opposite of my computer science classes...
Man though, it's tough to judge society in the present lol.
I think for a long time programming has been presented as very hostile to work life balance, I had read about examples in high school like horror stories of crunch time. I think this does a lot to discourage women and men. My brother in law is doing programming at the same University that I did and the class sizes are 1/5th what they were when I was there.
What's weird is that people assume that this has to do with programming specifically, instead of the larger workings of gender as a social construction and hierarchy (laid upon the material reality of sex dimorphism). Discussing gender isn't weird, men (and many women) just aren't very literate about the thing.
Nothing about the 1s & 0s themselves, but most of the environments & presentations where it happens? Those tend to lean stereotypical-male-centered[1][2].
The only thing suspicious is the propaganda machine which is creating this never ending list of gender-tech articles and their associated divisionist jargon.
Social construct theory is dead. Girls who have a genuine interest in technology couldn't care less about the sex of their coworkers (because if they did then they would be sexists).
Before the dotcom era and the mainstreaming of geek chic, programming used to be considered pretty uncool. Men and women who went into it were seen as nerds. For women, more so than men, finding a mate has been seen as part of being able to survive comfortably. So women stayed away from the stigma of programming, lest it lessen their attractiveness. Now, after things reversed and geek chic became mainsteam, the profession's seen as cool. Other professions seen as less cool (trades for example) don't seem to be the targets of the diversity lobby.
I run a private education organization that teaches kids how to code at a physical facility, and we get a gender breakup of male and female students that is similar to that of the industry (around 80 - 20). Because of the overwhelming male presence, it is difficult to make a comfortable learning environment for the female students, who may often feel uncomfortable, at odds with, or ostracized by pseudo-masculine efforts undertaken by adolescent males. It's at this level that computer education becomes challenging for females, at that awkward stage where not all the boys have yet learned how to shower daily.
Our solution was to simply make a small set of our classes for girls only. This provides girls with the option of learning either in an all-girls or a regular environment, so girls who feel uncomfortable are not discouraged to the point that they drop out.
>>Our solution was to simply make a small set of our classes for girls only.
Your solution will make the problem worse. Because nothing will really change in the way boys work, and you will see the same late night, whole night, full weekend culture among them.
Girl's classes will see a far little attendance totally detached from culture in the other part of world. Soon the rewards will dry out and move towards crazy work culture and attendance in girls classes will decline.
How about just being harsh on "psuedo-masculine efforts"? Just like if you had mostly white kids and they made the black kids "feel uncomfortable" by "awkward" kids, the answer is to meet the stupid jokes and what not with sincerity and make them realise how absurd the behaviour is. Just like in other co-ed classes if boys make whatever jokes, it gets slapped down.
Separating things sounds like it'd just make the male stuff even worse since there's no negative feedback. And it doesn't strengthen the girls to speak out when a guy tries some dumbass posturing or whatever.
And I say this even while planning to send my daughters to all-girls school just for possible reduction in the general adolescent "distractions". I just don't see what's comp-sci specific.
Isn't there a way how to teach those adolescent males to behave like humans? If their behavior is that bad that it makes uncomfortable learning environment for other students, then it needs to be addressed.
I'm woman and my experience is that most adolescent males are not apes and are able to act like human. Separating them by gender is accepting bad behavior as norm when it actually is not a norm. Young polite males are often off putted by pseudo-masculinity too, but you just told those that they have to suck it up.
The stereotype of adolescent male being half ape is as a accurate as the stereotype of woman being way too much emotional. Despite stereotypes, most young males are ok people and most young females are able to reason rationally.
This is extremely sexist and needlessly hostile. It's like being male and interested in coding is somehow associated with all the stereotypical male attributes which turns off women from coding. Ah, so we need to have boys acting less like boys because it's clearly why we don't have more women in tech. So we all need to teach teen boys to become meterosexual so it can be more inviting and suitable for females?
I think if you want more women to be coding, you have failed definitely. Why not show that women can be as strong as the boys, can rub shoulders and brain and still come out on top? By segregating based on gender, you only support that women have stereotypical attributes which prevent them from being as good as men, and men are good because of their stereotypical attributes.
Your genitals do not make you a coder, it's really down to the culture and societal expectations of both genders.
To the author of this blog and all ladies reading this:
I'm sorry, but just like stories around racial diversity in tech you're about to see a bunch of HN comments making _EVERY EXCUSE CONCEIVABLE_, and then some, to dismiss your concerns and/or say this blog is doing damage instead of helping. I think they're all wrong, but I can't argue against all of them. All I can do is upvote your supporters and downvote the detractors.
Please just keep on keeping on. I have a daughter here who will benefit from the path you're creating. You won't see it in the comments of HackerNews, but there are men in tech who can actually see the glass walls & ceilings women run into in this field starting back to at least high-school and won't deny it with pedantic arguments that go nowhere & prove/disprove nothing.
Way to throw out the righteous indignation before anything actually happened. That doesn't add to the conversation at all and, if anything, just invites problems.
Downvote simply because someone disagree is like telling other to shut up and don't ever talk about it. That's not the right attitude to respect disagreements.
Tongue in cheek, but I think there might be a point here struggling to see the light of day...
Why? I mean, why would women want to get into coding?
If one is not already working with computers, from the outside world, its a crappy job, and the money isn't better than many other things. Not to mention the insane hours culture. Women have a clean sheet choice. Why work in an office, killing your brain on hugely complex things for not much extra money, sat in front of what is essentially a complex toy?
Has it ever occurred to people that perhaps girls take an objective choice based on purely the work and reward (money or psychological) and make a wise choice to do something else?
Also, coders are seen widely was geeky, spotty, awkward, weirdos, who cant get laid. And, um, they are often banging on about getting more women in the workplace. From a girls POV, that's sounding a bit iffy at best.
My attitude is to just let women do what they want to do, and if I get a CV from one, well, I dont want to know if its a woman or not. I just want the skills. I dont care if its a man, woman, or what ever. Just don't get in anyones way and let nature take its course.
But personally, I cant help thinking women are making a smart choice, and going for better way to spend life earning a crust. I mean, really, look at what we do. Its a terrible way to be. And we know this is true because even the big tech companies go out of their way trying to make offices and environments fun and exciting. And that is for men. Heh, even men hate it, and need a bouincy toy to distract them!!! I don't see many of other companies going this far. Why? Because the job is awful.
So, men, stop trying to shit up womens lives by making them feel bad for not wanting to work down the mine.... sorry, code.
I'm a high-end coder working as a consultant for a major international bank (etc etc etc), and your assertions / sweeping generalisations about coders are wrong; first, not all of us are weirdos; most are married or dating, and we work regular 9 - 5:30 days (with some flexibility). Definitely not a mine (although I wouldn't mind a bit more natural light, but then, office buildings).
If it was a 'terrible way to be', I wouldn't be working here; I like my job. Also, if they try to lure me in with bouncy toys, I'll tell 'em to fuck right off - that probably means the other working conditions, pay, etc are shit.
I dunno, programming can be as fun as any other art, and the money is good and secure. And I don't see how this analysis incorporates gender at all -- unless you're saying women are better at decision-making than men, heh
It would be really nice to see more females in the industry, but I rally have to ask myself if those artificial promotions will help much.
I never learned to program because of some courses or because the industry needed me, I started programming because I wanted to create things. There was just a natural interest in computers and how they work, that's what drove and often still drives me today.
If females have the same passion and/or will to create things, then I don't see what is stopping them from doing so. Sure it might be intimidating to work in a rather male-dominated profession, but personally I have enough of all the generalization that is happening. Not every company/community is unable to respect anyone just because of their gender. Then again maybe it's quite a bit different here in Europe.
How did you develop this 'natural' interest in programming? I am male, but had literally zero role models, and my school system never covered computers. I made it to age 25 without knowing what a programming language is.
But when I found out I was bloody hooked on the idea!
How do you make the determination that the interest is necessarily "natural" when children's minds are so pliable growing up? It's a proven fact that boys and girls are treated differently by their parents and the media, and surely their older peers...
What girls of hackernews? that's my question. 224 comments as of writing this, and most of them ignorant straw man whiny responses by (surprise!) men. Hard to imagine why some women wouldn't enjoy coming here and discussing things with so many enlightened, educated folks.
If you're threatened by the thought of more women in coding, then you don't really believe that we're a meritocracy. If you're one of those folks, then somewhere, deep in your heart, you know that things aren't fair, and when kick ass women programmers come in, you as a mediocre participant, will be pushed down to the bottom.
Meritocracy wants the very best. Seeks out the very best. Welcomes the very best.
To use an analogy, I can't imagine Olympic athletes being happy for the best competitors from another country being sidelined due to their sexual preference. No, that's not happening. because world class athletes know their victories are hollow unless they're truly competing against the very best in the world. Unlike Silicon Valley. We don't want competition. Nope, we want our nice, cozy little in crowd, keep that money nice and close so we can control it.
As Chris Rock said, there's a difference between rich and wealthy. Michael Jordan is rich, the owner of the chicago bulls is wealthy.
Women want to be wealthy, not just rich. African Americans want to be wealthy, not just rich. And right now, according to PG himself, the path to that wealth is by learning to code.
So anyone trying to stop that from happening, can pretty much categorically be described as a bigot.
No. No one is threatened by women, just perhaps annoyed by their endless complaining.
> To use an analogy, I can't imagine Olympic athletes being happy for the best competitors from another country being sidelined due to their sexual preference. No, that's not happening. because world class athletes know their victories are hollow unless they're truly competing against the very best in the world.
But you can probably see how male Olympians would be annoyed if they had to put up with 24/7 accusations that their superior performance in comparison to female Olympians was only because how much they hated them.
Kudos to Susie for putting herself out there to make a point! For everyone else debating this issue: to look at the problem objectively, we have to break down the different clusters of people that need encouragement and support to get into tech/startups in order to see how we measure and fix each cluster:
1. American children of any affiliation (race, sex, gender, location) need to learn how to code, because it is the literacy of the future - without it you are left behind in both earnings potential and career choices. To make that happen everyone here can take a step to show a child something cool they can do with code. Get them fired up about expressing their creativity with the tools of tech! For every one child that reminds you of you when you were young, pick three that don't, to make things even in the long run.
2. Niche groups, previously underrepresented in tech need better representation, because diverse perspectives raise the permutation of potential problems noticed, problems tackled and solutions possible, period. Representation also leads to better mentorship, resources, and an even start for everyone with talent and grit, regardless of background. Once we get a unicorn IPO from each underrepresented group, things will change. If we aren't getting those, something is wrong with 1) or 3) or both.
3. Existing representatives of underrepresented groups in tech who have the experience and skills to lead and build successful businesses today need to be able to receive the same support and the same proportion of support as regularly represented groups. Nothing more, nothing less. We have yet to see data from anyone about percentage of seed* funded startups out of 1000 applicants from their representative group. That data can easily close this conversation for good or surface a problem that can be addressed next if need be. If there is a real problem here however, teaching children how to code won't be the way we need to solve it. This is the only data we have seen and it is not encouraging: http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2013/11/02/how-female-en... .
How would you detect or solve for a problem in this cluster?
* mentioning seed, since that sample would be most likely to be sufficient to gauge trust in underrepresented groups by investors. Later rounds could skew for industry trends in the short run. The goal is to run a regression that shows objective information.
I dunno about 1; in a similar line, you'd have to teach them electronics, farming, carpentry, household, and how to get unemployment benefits. But I'm in favor of teaching kids all of the above though.
I hope this article goes viral. I can't believe we're still not over these stupid preconceptions that intellect has anything to do with our reproductive organs. It shouldn't have anything to do with luck, but still: Best of luck to all you girls out there!
We know that we've reached gender equality when both men and women have the same possibilities, but for that to happen, each individual has to realise that just because you're a man doesn't mean that you can't work with girly products and vice versa.
Good article, I think you're right on target with the issue.
Probably offtopic and inane, but, using the term 'girl' implies children/teenagers or other immature women; can people just use 'women' instead? Will help with getting taken serious and such.
Well, that's cool. While I totally get the point of what the OP was trying to do (and it's awesome trying to be make female coders/founders more visible), I have to confess that as a fellow 'girl of HackerNews', I think the title could be less leading and a bit more constructive.
There are other female founders out there that code. I'm sorry to say that you're not the first, nor the last. It's about how we get MORE female founders and female coders to increase the diversity of the startup world.
(Incidentally, I'm female, a startup founder and I code. )
Not every brain is wired well for programming (can we please stop calling it "coding") - male or female, but there's some advantage men get due to being generally better at abstract thinking. Some believe this is due to cultural differences (http://phys.org/news/2011-08-disputes-notion-men-spatial-wom...), but I personally believe it's all due to hormonal differences. For example, estrogen affects cognitive function, testosterone definitely boosts competitiveness, and so on. I know some will rush to downvote me as a sexist, but this will be far from the truth. On the contrary - this is a good defense on the discrepancies in the statistics and suggests this to be a software rather a hardware problem. I personally don't need third-party statistics - I have nearly 30 years of programming experience and less than 10% of my colleagues have been female and this ratio hasn't improved over time.
"Assigning a label to myself like “hacker” or “developer” gives me the heebie-jeebies."
This in particular is not limited to women. As a guy from a non-CS background, I felt the same way for a long time. I'd say it's a function of experience rather than gender.
Any kind of label is imho somehting to be avoided. Hacker / developer / programmer, but also things like nerd/geek for that matter. Few of my colleagues here would be put into the latter categories if you met them on the street.
1. It is important to like who you are and what you do. I am glad you are proud of being who you are,
2. But at the same time I don't like when people are calling out initiatives like "more women in tech". Look, getting a job is tough. It can be luck or qualification. I know someone is going to cite some research studies but at this point, let's just say yes we get it, a lot of assholes out there are discriminating women. But in reality, you can't stop them by hiring more women. You wish you could just get more women in manager level so that more women can be hired. That's not going to happen magically and hoping women managers hire more women is also acting discrimination. I am not comfortable with that kind of initiatives. It is as if I was a broker setting a goal for myself. That's just number game, there is nothing we gain from it other than growing the numbers.
3. All-girls class is just bad. For one it's like containing them, like putting them in a zoo and wait for them to do something amazing and then we pay a visit and cheer them for their accomplishment. Events meant for helping girls to find self-esteem is great but then again, too many is going to do damage because they soon will get attached to these "all-girls" environment. To actually work in the real world, one must accept the flaws and be ready to work with unfriendly people. What is even more frustrating is that we are dogfooding people with the crazy things CS and programming are doing. The ability to code is great, awesome. But coding is just a tool. Like every other tool out there, you can either make something awesome and powerful or something ugly and useless. Knowing how to code doesn't make you smarter or special. It's like knowing quantum physics suddenly makes you a wantable guy among your girlfriends? That's just bullshit (for some it's true but then that's just bullshit). And that's pretty much stereotyping.
What we need is to stop telling girls or any group of people to do XYZ because they are the minority or is having disadvantage. Making exceptions to them isn't going to help them. I am Asian (Chinese to be exact) and if 20 years later Asian MD dominates like 80%, do we start another initiative to bring up other ethnicity? If all the ice cream truck drivers are Asians, do we want more diversity? If we think (or because studies have shown...) that girls don't end up in tech because they are afraid or because they were told they weren't good enough, having all-girl class won't solve the problem when they enter the real world either.
Teach people about computer and web literacy, about science and engineering, about what people do in their daily jobs. Teach regardless of gender or race. We all deserve to know them and we don't need to have special non-profit organizations going after XYZ groups of people. Bring those things into core education.
[+] [-] olefoo|12 years ago|reply
Given that so many of the foundational figures of the field ( Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, etc. ) were female, the fact that programming and IT became an almost entirely male-dominated profession is suspicious, and should make us question the attitudes and social constructs that brought this about.
[+] [-] kamaal|12 years ago|reply
In my first project near impossible work conditions and deadlines were placed on us. Most of us had to make extreme sacrifices(health wise, socially and in many aspects)- The other option was being out of the job. The problem is you need a supporting family. Here in India, its difficult for women at least socially and even in your own family to justify working whole nights, weekends and late hours consistently. You can try to fight that when you are single, it gets near impossible to do that after marriage and kids. Plus women have to take breaks in their 20's and 30's for maternity reasons.
At the other end, super success in software depends on all this start up culture which is very hard on most women.
[+] [-] cclogg|12 years ago|reply
I myself am a coder because I loved modding games when I was younger. I do like creating things regardless, but I got to that point because a childhood friend shared PC games with me (games that his uncle shared with him)... and then you end up spending a large chunk of your childhood on the computer, so it's natural to progress down that path. But I know both guys and girls that played games like me and chose not to do a career that is computer-related.
It'd be great to have more gender balance in computer science, but actually in all fields too. I found in my art history classes in college that the class was around 80-90% female, for every class I took. This was basically the opposite of my computer science classes...
Man though, it's tough to judge society in the present lol.
[+] [-] ps4fanboy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chongli|12 years ago|reply
I think the problem is that we always name these two. Ada Lovelace died 161 years ago. Is she really all that relevant a role model for girls today?
[+] [-] _bfhp|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smtddr|12 years ago|reply
1. http://www.motherjones.com/media/2012/04/silicon-valley-brog...
2. http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/the-idiocy-of-techcrunch-di...
[+] [-] animus9|12 years ago|reply
Social construct theory is dead. Girls who have a genuine interest in technology couldn't care less about the sex of their coworkers (because if they did then they would be sexists).
[+] [-] nthrow|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] primitivesuave|12 years ago|reply
Our solution was to simply make a small set of our classes for girls only. This provides girls with the option of learning either in an all-girls or a regular environment, so girls who feel uncomfortable are not discouraged to the point that they drop out.
[+] [-] kamaal|12 years ago|reply
Your solution will make the problem worse. Because nothing will really change in the way boys work, and you will see the same late night, whole night, full weekend culture among them.
Girl's classes will see a far little attendance totally detached from culture in the other part of world. Soon the rewards will dry out and move towards crazy work culture and attendance in girls classes will decline.
[+] [-] MichaelGG|12 years ago|reply
Separating things sounds like it'd just make the male stuff even worse since there's no negative feedback. And it doesn't strengthen the girls to speak out when a guy tries some dumbass posturing or whatever.
And I say this even while planning to send my daughters to all-girls school just for possible reduction in the general adolescent "distractions". I just don't see what's comp-sci specific.
[+] [-] watwut|12 years ago|reply
I'm woman and my experience is that most adolescent males are not apes and are able to act like human. Separating them by gender is accepting bad behavior as norm when it actually is not a norm. Young polite males are often off putted by pseudo-masculinity too, but you just told those that they have to suck it up.
The stereotype of adolescent male being half ape is as a accurate as the stereotype of woman being way too much emotional. Despite stereotypes, most young males are ok people and most young females are able to reason rationally.
[+] [-] notastartup|12 years ago|reply
I think if you want more women to be coding, you have failed definitely. Why not show that women can be as strong as the boys, can rub shoulders and brain and still come out on top? By segregating based on gender, you only support that women have stereotypical attributes which prevent them from being as good as men, and men are good because of their stereotypical attributes.
Your genitals do not make you a coder, it's really down to the culture and societal expectations of both genders.
[+] [-] smtddr|12 years ago|reply
I'm sorry, but just like stories around racial diversity in tech you're about to see a bunch of HN comments making _EVERY EXCUSE CONCEIVABLE_, and then some, to dismiss your concerns and/or say this blog is doing damage instead of helping. I think they're all wrong, but I can't argue against all of them. All I can do is upvote your supporters and downvote the detractors.
Please just keep on keeping on. I have a daughter here who will benefit from the path you're creating. You won't see it in the comments of HackerNews, but there are men in tech who can actually see the glass walls & ceilings women run into in this field starting back to at least high-school and won't deny it with pedantic arguments that go nowhere & prove/disprove nothing.
That is all.
[+] [-] hueving|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shangxiao|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yeukhon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rimantas|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alan_cx|12 years ago|reply
Why? I mean, why would women want to get into coding?
If one is not already working with computers, from the outside world, its a crappy job, and the money isn't better than many other things. Not to mention the insane hours culture. Women have a clean sheet choice. Why work in an office, killing your brain on hugely complex things for not much extra money, sat in front of what is essentially a complex toy?
Has it ever occurred to people that perhaps girls take an objective choice based on purely the work and reward (money or psychological) and make a wise choice to do something else?
Also, coders are seen widely was geeky, spotty, awkward, weirdos, who cant get laid. And, um, they are often banging on about getting more women in the workplace. From a girls POV, that's sounding a bit iffy at best.
My attitude is to just let women do what they want to do, and if I get a CV from one, well, I dont want to know if its a woman or not. I just want the skills. I dont care if its a man, woman, or what ever. Just don't get in anyones way and let nature take its course.
But personally, I cant help thinking women are making a smart choice, and going for better way to spend life earning a crust. I mean, really, look at what we do. Its a terrible way to be. And we know this is true because even the big tech companies go out of their way trying to make offices and environments fun and exciting. And that is for men. Heh, even men hate it, and need a bouincy toy to distract them!!! I don't see many of other companies going this far. Why? Because the job is awful.
So, men, stop trying to shit up womens lives by making them feel bad for not wanting to work down the mine.... sorry, code.
XXXXX love you all, obviously ;)
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|12 years ago|reply
If it was a 'terrible way to be', I wouldn't be working here; I like my job. Also, if they try to lure me in with bouncy toys, I'll tell 'em to fuck right off - that probably means the other working conditions, pay, etc are shit.
[+] [-] _bfhp|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eXpl0it3r|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] graeme|12 years ago|reply
But when I found out I was bloody hooked on the idea!
[+] [-] _bfhp|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melindajb|12 years ago|reply
If you're threatened by the thought of more women in coding, then you don't really believe that we're a meritocracy. If you're one of those folks, then somewhere, deep in your heart, you know that things aren't fair, and when kick ass women programmers come in, you as a mediocre participant, will be pushed down to the bottom.
Meritocracy wants the very best. Seeks out the very best. Welcomes the very best.
To use an analogy, I can't imagine Olympic athletes being happy for the best competitors from another country being sidelined due to their sexual preference. No, that's not happening. because world class athletes know their victories are hollow unless they're truly competing against the very best in the world. Unlike Silicon Valley. We don't want competition. Nope, we want our nice, cozy little in crowd, keep that money nice and close so we can control it.
As Chris Rock said, there's a difference between rich and wealthy. Michael Jordan is rich, the owner of the chicago bulls is wealthy.
Women want to be wealthy, not just rich. African Americans want to be wealthy, not just rich. And right now, according to PG himself, the path to that wealth is by learning to code.
So anyone trying to stop that from happening, can pretty much categorically be described as a bigot.
[+] [-] xrctl|12 years ago|reply
> To use an analogy, I can't imagine Olympic athletes being happy for the best competitors from another country being sidelined due to their sexual preference. No, that's not happening. because world class athletes know their victories are hollow unless they're truly competing against the very best in the world.
But you can probably see how male Olympians would be annoyed if they had to put up with 24/7 accusations that their superior performance in comparison to female Olympians was only because how much they hated them.
[+] [-] dzink|12 years ago|reply
1. American children of any affiliation (race, sex, gender, location) need to learn how to code, because it is the literacy of the future - without it you are left behind in both earnings potential and career choices. To make that happen everyone here can take a step to show a child something cool they can do with code. Get them fired up about expressing their creativity with the tools of tech! For every one child that reminds you of you when you were young, pick three that don't, to make things even in the long run.
2. Niche groups, previously underrepresented in tech need better representation, because diverse perspectives raise the permutation of potential problems noticed, problems tackled and solutions possible, period. Representation also leads to better mentorship, resources, and an even start for everyone with talent and grit, regardless of background. Once we get a unicorn IPO from each underrepresented group, things will change. If we aren't getting those, something is wrong with 1) or 3) or both.
3. Existing representatives of underrepresented groups in tech who have the experience and skills to lead and build successful businesses today need to be able to receive the same support and the same proportion of support as regularly represented groups. Nothing more, nothing less. We have yet to see data from anyone about percentage of seed* funded startups out of 1000 applicants from their representative group. That data can easily close this conversation for good or surface a problem that can be addressed next if need be. If there is a real problem here however, teaching children how to code won't be the way we need to solve it. This is the only data we have seen and it is not encouraging: http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2013/11/02/how-female-en... .
How would you detect or solve for a problem in this cluster?
* mentioning seed, since that sample would be most likely to be sufficient to gauge trust in underrepresented groups by investors. Later rounds could skew for industry trends in the short run. The goal is to run a regression that shows objective information.
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tempodox|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] simgidacav|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cupofjoakim|12 years ago|reply
Good article, I think you're right on target with the issue.
[+] [-] caiob|12 years ago|reply
We have way more serious problems to solve, really.
[+] [-] vacri|12 years ago|reply
I wasn't aware that we had to attack the list strictly in order.
[+] [-] _bfhp|12 years ago|reply
When did the writer of this article say this? When has anybody said this? Please, I'm very interested.
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kateho|12 years ago|reply
There are other female founders out there that code. I'm sorry to say that you're not the first, nor the last. It's about how we get MORE female founders and female coders to increase the diversity of the startup world.
(Incidentally, I'm female, a startup founder and I code. )
[+] [-] knackernews|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kolev|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scdoshi|12 years ago|reply
This in particular is not limited to women. As a guy from a non-CS background, I felt the same way for a long time. I'd say it's a function of experience rather than gender.
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fjhqjv|12 years ago|reply
Otherwise, it's built on the assumption that most females on Hacker News don't already know how to code, which may or may not be the case.
[+] [-] yeukhon|12 years ago|reply
1. It is important to like who you are and what you do. I am glad you are proud of being who you are,
2. But at the same time I don't like when people are calling out initiatives like "more women in tech". Look, getting a job is tough. It can be luck or qualification. I know someone is going to cite some research studies but at this point, let's just say yes we get it, a lot of assholes out there are discriminating women. But in reality, you can't stop them by hiring more women. You wish you could just get more women in manager level so that more women can be hired. That's not going to happen magically and hoping women managers hire more women is also acting discrimination. I am not comfortable with that kind of initiatives. It is as if I was a broker setting a goal for myself. That's just number game, there is nothing we gain from it other than growing the numbers.
3. All-girls class is just bad. For one it's like containing them, like putting them in a zoo and wait for them to do something amazing and then we pay a visit and cheer them for their accomplishment. Events meant for helping girls to find self-esteem is great but then again, too many is going to do damage because they soon will get attached to these "all-girls" environment. To actually work in the real world, one must accept the flaws and be ready to work with unfriendly people. What is even more frustrating is that we are dogfooding people with the crazy things CS and programming are doing. The ability to code is great, awesome. But coding is just a tool. Like every other tool out there, you can either make something awesome and powerful or something ugly and useless. Knowing how to code doesn't make you smarter or special. It's like knowing quantum physics suddenly makes you a wantable guy among your girlfriends? That's just bullshit (for some it's true but then that's just bullshit). And that's pretty much stereotyping.
What we need is to stop telling girls or any group of people to do XYZ because they are the minority or is having disadvantage. Making exceptions to them isn't going to help them. I am Asian (Chinese to be exact) and if 20 years later Asian MD dominates like 80%, do we start another initiative to bring up other ethnicity? If all the ice cream truck drivers are Asians, do we want more diversity? If we think (or because studies have shown...) that girls don't end up in tech because they are afraid or because they were told they weren't good enough, having all-girl class won't solve the problem when they enter the real world either.
Teach people about computer and web literacy, about science and engineering, about what people do in their daily jobs. Teach regardless of gender or race. We all deserve to know them and we don't need to have special non-profit organizations going after XYZ groups of people. Bring those things into core education.
[+] [-] jaimebuelta|12 years ago|reply
(I know is quite common way of talk, but still...)
[+] [-] shurcooL|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] altero|12 years ago|reply