I'm going to lose a few karma points for going meta, but I have to point this.
When the top comment to a positive bitcoin related news reads like textbook flame war material[1], I feel sad about the current state of HN.
We're supposed to discuss, not to pick sides and borderline troll people who are skeptical about some technology. This attitude is downright childish, and will only spawn very predictable and heated debates.
You bought or mined bitcoins and believe in them? That's good for you, I have some too, yay. Yet, I'm not starting flame wars and making fun of non-believers. This brings absolutely nothing. Moreover, it might show a negative image of the bitcoin community.
I find it humorous that Tiger Direct and Newegg are promoting Bitcoin mining with GPUS. The returns from such cards are so small now its not even worth mentioning. Even with a high end GPU you are only making around $0.96 a week. With the card costing $440 it'll take 8 years to make your money back, assuming the difficulty won't increase. Which it will so there is no hope of making a profit.
Anyone who is mining with GPUs isnt mining Bitcoin, their mining the various other cryptocurrencies (known as altcoins) that use the scrypt hashing algorithm, Such Litecoin.
See here the profitability of scrypt based coins, hint: It's alot
Yes, mining is tricky, risky business, too much so for my blood. But, I think some find ways to ROI.
But, you know, a merchant wouldn't stop selling pickaxes during a gold rush, just because the customer isn't profiting. I wouldn't expect online retailers too either.
Nobody GPU mines for bitcoin anymore (ASICs killed that long ago). My 2 year old ATI card makes $4/day mining litecoin or even $8/day mining dogecoin. If you want bitcoin you simply send the alt currency to an exchange and trade for bitcoin.
> I find it humorous that Tiger Direct and Newegg are promoting Bitcoin mining with GPUS.
Why wouldn't they? They both sell GPUs and have a large backlog of them. Somebody who isn't knowledgeable enough about the topic and wants to get in on the latest fad is likely to see that ad and jump on it.
If I sold video cards for a living I'd be pushing them just as hard as I could too. "Bitcoin mining, OpenCL, desktop virtualization, they can do it all, come buy your video cards from me and not the other guy!"
There are other reasons to buy graphics cards than just bitcoin mining. If you get $400 worth of enjoyment from the graphics card and $2 of revenue from mining, that's a profit.
>>The returns from such cards are so small now its not even worth mentioning.
Well, I dunno about mining BTC specifically but I got a co-worker making about 0.45 - 0.6 BTC a month on a 2 GPU rig from Newegg at $1200. He's using the middlecoin.com pool which rotate-mines different altcoins, converts to BTC and pays out. The rig is on track to paying for itself soon and apparently his electric bill didn't shoot to the moon.
Someone with a less favorable view on Bitcoin could easily point out that these retailers are not embracing Bitcoin. They are embracing payment services like BitPay and Coinbase. To TigerDirect this move isn't that different from deciding to accept payments from Paypal, Google Wallet, etc.
Seems to me that most peoples' points is that Bitcoin solves problems that most people do not have. I still haven't had any Bitcoin advocates explain to me why I should care. My credit card is vastly superior in pretty much every respect, and the decentralized nature of the network seems more like an albatross that makes it require vastly more resources than it needs (because I don't think central banking is bad). And yeah, no chargebacks is ok if you're a seller and can reasonably push risk off to the consumer without them shopping elsewhere. But I'm a buyer, so...
A company that sells mining hardware (AMD GPUs) accepting payments in bitcoin is a no-brainer. You save your customers the trouble of converting to USD to purchase, which makes the mine->purchase->mine cycle even more frictionless.
Even if I thought bitcoin was doomed to fail, I would do this in the short term to get more business from coin miners.
Who says that? Most of the criticism is "Bitcoin is poorly designed, it fails at basic principles of Economics, it wastes tons of power, it continues to cause income inequality…"
Cryptocurrency is awesome. There just isn't a well-designed one yet that uses actual, sound economic principles instead of Austrian School ramblings.
Accepting Bitcoin means having a Bitcoin wallet. Period! The more merchants like TigerDirect and Overstock "embrace" Bitcoin, the more bitcoins will be sold at the exchanges and the price will be dragged down further and further. It's funny that just about now hoarders start to realize how negative is this for their empty hope to wake up millionaires one day due to Bitcoin suddenly becoming $10K a piece.
"The more merchants like TigerDirect and Overstock "embrace" Bitcoin, the more bitcoins will be sold at the exchanges"
False.
Case in point: the number of merchants accepting bitcoins has dramatically increased over the last year. Yet the exchange rate has increased. This is the case because interest/demand in bitcoin seems roughly proportional to the size of the Bitcoin economy (what you can do, where you can spend them). So the more merchants -> the more interest -> the higher the exchange rate.
I don't get your logic. Liquidity doesn't change supply. It just makes exchange simpler. A set market price has to be found between the people who want to trade Bitcoins, which will very much be influenced by the supply.
Liquidity will help to lessen volatility (fluctuation), but the price point has to be decided by the people who want to own some Bitcoin (traders, spenders and savers). Savers will drive the price upward as long as they save, but that's ok, as long as not too many people decide to liquidate their Bitcoins at the same time. It's the same for lost Bitcoins, the value for the rest of them adjusts to the demand level based on supply.
Someone has to buy the Bitcoin and spend it before it can be sold on an exchange. Nothing has changed in that regard; the part of the Bitcoin economy you are referring to is zero-sum.
Mm. The companies might have fallen from their high, but they're hardly irrelevant or dead. Overstock is advertised like crazy and has some pretty good deals to boot, Tiger competes directly with Newegg. App is a bit of an outlier there..
Starbucks or Apple? I'd assume the megacorps will take it up once the instability gets smoothed out a bit. Which is a problem of adoption, which means the faster the smaller fish like these adopt it, the faster the bigger ones will.
I predict Amazon will take BTC within the next 2-3 years.
Is that the next talking point for the Bitcoin opponents/skeptics? I guess once "no retailers accept Bitcoin" dried up, it's no surprise they found a new one.
It's a start. You don't go from a tiny handful of sites started by Bitcoin enthusiasts to being accepted on Apple.com and in Starbucks retail locations in a day. A year or so ago, we were pretty much at the tiny handful of sites stage. We're starting to get some fairly second-rate internet retailers now, who have no reason to be interested in Bitcoin aside from pure business potential. It's a good step. Widespread adoption of something so unprecedented, poorly-understood, and potentially disruptive isn't going to happen overnight.
You're going to continue to see major eCommerce players offer bitcoin as a payment option. In the checkout flow it is best practice to offer as many payment options available because it increases the likelihood of a successful conversion.
Regardless of whether Andreesse's essay is correct regarding bitcoin two IR100 sites is a pretty big deal for bitcoin.
Lost in the news that they accept bitcoin is the "Coming Soon" under Butterfly Labs hardware mentioned on that landing page. First I've heard of a mainstream electronics store selling ASIC mining hardware.
As far as I can see, they aren't indicating what they are doing with their Bitcoin. Accepting Bitcoin is one thing, since as far as I know, all places accepting Bitcoin so far just convert it into their country's currency (e.g. $). Accepting Bitcoin and keeping Bitcoin for further trading is a-whole-nother story, and as far as I know, no one is doing that.
Still, great news for cryptocurrencies as there's now a bit more anonymity when buying online! :)
[+] [-] uniclaude|12 years ago|reply
When the top comment to a positive bitcoin related news reads like textbook flame war material[1], I feel sad about the current state of HN.
We're supposed to discuss, not to pick sides and borderline troll people who are skeptical about some technology. This attitude is downright childish, and will only spawn very predictable and heated debates.
You bought or mined bitcoins and believe in them? That's good for you, I have some too, yay. Yet, I'm not starting flame wars and making fun of non-believers. This brings absolutely nothing. Moreover, it might show a negative image of the bitcoin community.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7109970
[+] [-] ryaneager|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eudoxus|12 years ago|reply
See here the profitability of scrypt based coins, hint: It's alot
http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency
[+] [-] 1qaz2wsx3edc|12 years ago|reply
But, you know, a merchant wouldn't stop selling pickaxes during a gold rush, just because the customer isn't profiting. I wouldn't expect online retailers too either.
[+] [-] fallinghawks|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gigq|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geminitojanus|12 years ago|reply
Why wouldn't they? They both sell GPUs and have a large backlog of them. Somebody who isn't knowledgeable enough about the topic and wants to get in on the latest fad is likely to see that ad and jump on it.
If I sold video cards for a living I'd be pushing them just as hard as I could too. "Bitcoin mining, OpenCL, desktop virtualization, they can do it all, come buy your video cards from me and not the other guy!"
[+] [-] sks|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notatoad|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smtddr|12 years ago|reply
Well, I dunno about mining BTC specifically but I got a co-worker making about 0.45 - 0.6 BTC a month on a 2 GPU rig from Newegg at $1200. He's using the middlecoin.com pool which rotate-mines different altcoins, converts to BTC and pays out. The rig is on track to paying for itself soon and apparently his electric bill didn't shoot to the moon.
[+] [-] Karunamon|12 years ago|reply
It's funny, all of the "Bitcoin is dead! Bitcoin solves a non-existent problem! Bitcoin.....etc" posters have vanished.
[+] [-] slg|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chaz|12 years ago|reply
I own BTC, but I'm still wondering what's going to want me to spend it instead of my AmEx for my next purchase.
[+] [-] srdev|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smokeyj|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danudey|12 years ago|reply
Even if I thought bitcoin was doomed to fail, I would do this in the short term to get more business from coin miners.
[+] [-] OverlordXenu|12 years ago|reply
Cryptocurrency is awesome. There just isn't a well-designed one yet that uses actual, sound economic principles instead of Austrian School ramblings.
[+] [-] notatoad|12 years ago|reply
Did those posters ever exist? I certainly haven't seen them on Hacker News.
[+] [-] Helianthus|12 years ago|reply
I still monitor Bitcoin news. Nothing surprising. Bitcoin is still a greedy rotten fruit, and only time will prove anyone wrong.
[+] [-] trollingyou|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kolev|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrb|12 years ago|reply
False.
Case in point: the number of merchants accepting bitcoins has dramatically increased over the last year. Yet the exchange rate has increased. This is the case because interest/demand in bitcoin seems roughly proportional to the size of the Bitcoin economy (what you can do, where you can spend them). So the more merchants -> the more interest -> the higher the exchange rate.
[+] [-] skriticos2|12 years ago|reply
Liquidity will help to lessen volatility (fluctuation), but the price point has to be decided by the people who want to own some Bitcoin (traders, spenders and savers). Savers will drive the price upward as long as they save, but that's ok, as long as not too many people decide to liquidate their Bitcoins at the same time. It's the same for lost Bitcoins, the value for the rest of them adjusts to the demand level based on supply.
[+] [-] wyager|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fragsworth|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AznHisoka|12 years ago|reply
We had Overstock, who has fallen from its high. We had App.net, who is struggling to be relevant. now TigerDirect.
When is Starbucks or Apple going to accept Bitcoin?
[+] [-] Karunamon|12 years ago|reply
Starbucks or Apple? I'd assume the megacorps will take it up once the instability gets smoothed out a bit. Which is a problem of adoption, which means the faster the smaller fish like these adopt it, the faster the bigger ones will.
I predict Amazon will take BTC within the next 2-3 years.
[+] [-] baddox|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tetrep|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] clarkm|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eudoxus|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ufmace|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] return0|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryangripp|12 years ago|reply
Regardless of whether Andreesse's essay is correct regarding bitcoin two IR100 sites is a pretty big deal for bitcoin.
[+] [-] Benferhat|12 years ago|reply
Are you sure about that? Too many choices sometimes leads to no choice at all. [0]
[0] http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_ch...
[+] [-] gigq|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elipsey|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] markdown|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vrikis|12 years ago|reply
Still, great news for cryptocurrencies as there's now a bit more anonymity when buying online! :)
[+] [-] andrewf|12 years ago|reply
Sorry TigerDirect, I swore off you then.
[+] [-] lvh|12 years ago|reply
Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.tigerdirect.com/" on this server.
Reference #18.56bd7a5c.1390506110.4cf7baee
[+] [-] SquareWheel|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bulibuta|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flycaliguy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yalogin|12 years ago|reply