[eekfuh]

The experience we've had with hiring people from these bootcamps has been about 50/50. 50% of the people are completely unable to engineer and instead just know a language. 50% of them are hard workers and eventually learn how to be an engineer. 100% of them ask for outrageous salaries for not actually having any professional experience. I think the bootcamps spend a decent amount of their time setting high expectations and how to ask for a large amount of money.

[jonnathanson]

It's the "get high-paying jobs on graduation" aspect of these programs that's never quite gelled for me. I can think of very few jobs I'd be solidly qualified for after a few months of training, no matter how intense the training. Engineering seems no different, and maybe even harder than most. People should be enrolling in bootcamps to learn the basics, not to get some sort of shortcut to a theoretically sexy job -- the true sexiness of which is entirely unknown unless and until they've actually tried it.

If these programs were/are feeding internships, awesome. That's a different story. And on that note, I see no reason why big tech companies can't create their own coding academies, or partner with bootcamps on more structured working internships and externships. The bootcamp --> full-time job connection doesn't make a ton of sense. But bootcamp --> internship --> job makes more sense.

There are a lot of smart, hard-working people out there who, for one reason or another, just never got a deep exposure to computers in childhood, high school, or college. (Reliable childhood access to a decent-quality computer, much less programming resources, is not as common as we might expect.) Giving them a shot at learning is a noble and justifiable endeavor. Not all of them will enjoy it, and not all of them will make it through. But a lot of them might. They need to be going into it with the right expectations, though.

[busterarm]

Legal internships require you to be in a degree program, so it's not a good path for those of us who are older and looking for a career change.

I have the aptitude and experience to do well in an internship, if I could get one. Having to go from bootcamp to internship would cut off the only structured path available to land a programming job, short of going back into a degree program which is both undesirable and financially not feasible.

I'm in a bootcamp right now that I don't entirely need, but I'm building up my GitHub account and looking at following up with something like thoughtbot's Apprentice.io or (if I'm crazy lucky) getting into ThoughtWorks' junior developer program rather than trying to get a job with a large salary. I want to learn the ropes in this industry by consulting.

Edit: Also, if anyone reading this is looking to hire someone junior (and degreeless) and is committed to training, we should talk. Relocation is not a problem and neither is making an extended commitment on my end (as far as time and/or compensation). I do have a tech background, just not in dev. (Sorry, I gotta hustle! :D)

[enraged_camel]

>>And on that note, I see no reason why big tech companies can't create their own coding academies, or partner with bootcamps on more structured working internships and externships.

You mean actually train people? Don't be ridiculous. Why do that when you can just fire and replace? /s

[wwweston]

> 100% of them ask for outrageous salaries for not actually having any professional experience. I think the bootcamps spend a decent amount of their time setting high expectations and how to ask for a large amount of money.

Yep. That's a higher percentage than what I'd expect, but it still seems pretty natural. Bootcamps literally sell the idea.

This, incidentally, is part of the reason why there's regulation.

[sillysaurus2]

100% of them ask for outrageous salaries

So what's an outrageous salary for a new programmer these days? (Also, what area are you in?)

[danso]

Schools within the big expensive areas (NYC, SF) seem to boast an average salary of around $75+K...this is for graduates who may have not done any programming before they started the session.

And then there are the intensive programs that say they can get you $100K when you graduate. But these involve students who have already programmed (either through school or professionally) but in another language. IMO, a seasoned Python or Java developer who spends 10 weeks intensively learning Rails/iOS (and going beyond the curriculum, if the curriculum is also aimed at beginners) is probably worth $100K in the NY/SF area.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130426/NEWS/304260032 http://www.businessinsider.com/flatiron-school-coding-progra... http://www.quora.com/Kush-Patel-1/answers/Flatiron-School

[eekfuh]

So we've had a couple ask for $130k that went to HackReactor. Found it interesting that they both asked for the exact same number. We also had a couple from 2 different Chicago bootcamps asking for nearly 100k.

I do not live in Silicon Valley or NYC or Chicago. I live in Utah. Average household income is under $60k.