Very interesting announcement. I'm sure they're making the right decision, and I'm even more sure they did a ton of user testing.
However, it's weird to lose the 37 Signals brand. I actually don't like Basecamp as a product, but I love 37 Signals. I treat their books like a bible, and read their blog posts religiously. Somehow, they seemed like more like a philosophy than just a product, and Basecamp (and Rails and their books) were a side effect.
I know it's the same people and nothing will really change (A rose by any other name...), but it's still so weird to me to lose 37 Signals.
2 years ago, I watched DHH's Startup School presentation on YouTube, and it completely changed the way I perceived what a "startup" could be.
Today, my partner and I are recently ramen profitable on our first SaaS product, and growing. It's extremely exciting - we're seeing the fruits of a project that we love actually paying our bills. "Exciting" probably isn't even the right word... we're building our way to financial freedom and liberation from the rat race.
Our business is our livelihood now, and you can find evidence of 37Signal's influence in every nook and cranny of it. Their writings and philosophy have affected our business and our lives deeply, so a deep emotional connection to the name is an obvious consequence.
It feels funny, but as Jason clearly alludes to at the end of the post, a lot of their moves have. I'm looking forward to following along as the future of Basecamp unfolds.
Though I share your sentiments about losing the 37Signals name, their philsophy remains the same and I have high hopes that this change will result in an even better Basecamp!
They were formed to design websites and that's what they did for 5 years. Though I guess you can view web design as a "struggle" with all that IE6 testing and what not, but some people really enjoy it :)
We use basecamp and campfire at work. Basecamp is mediocre, not horrible and not great. Campfire sucks compared to similar tools that I've used in the past.
Seems to me that they've been successful mostly because of their involvement in the Ruby and startup world, rather than making great products. Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be clear about the distinction between a company that makes great product and a company that's good at marketing itself.
A lot of people (myself included) would disagree with you there. The fact that they can afford to do something like the OP is announcing is sort of proving that... I've not used any project management tool that I've liked as much as Basecamp, and I've used heaps of them.
I think it's commendable to take this approach. They are doing a few things very right. 1.) Not shutting down existing products and leaving users without a service, 2.) Not wanting to just sell it to the highest bidder but actually are concerned about their users, 3.) Having the guts to just put everything on the table and changing major things up. I feel like a lot of companies feel like, 'Well we have these products we have to either keep them going and scale or kill them.' Their solution here is a wise one that is certainly putting users before dollars and ease.
While everyone may not be happy with it, it's certainly better than a lot of shut downs and other moves startups have made that have pissed a lot of people off.
Interesting. I always saw 37Signals as a good example of a diversified portfolio. I notice they're going to keep the side projects (books, job board) which probably have the highest margins and require very little ongoing investment of mental energy. I don't see where the growth in Basecamp is going to come from, but then I don't use the product (tried it once, too limited.)
Also, did Jason Fried step out of a time machine with his IBM Selectric typewriter to compose this? 37Signals have always been on the hipster end of things but the design of this letter is ridiculously so.
> Also, did Jason Fried step out of a time machine with his IBM Selectric typewriter to compose this? 37Signals have always been on the hipster end of things but the design of this letter is ridiculously so.
I gotta admit, while it's the content of the article that has 99% of my interest (going to miss the "37signals" name, but it sounds like they know exactly what they're doing, so good for them!), I did also pause and wonder about the Courier font as well as the "scribbly" version of the Basecamp logo.
But then, that's me, and sometimes a font is just a font? :)
My bet was going to be Atlassian. They have the clearest competitor to Campfire (Hipchat), a history of pulling off acquisitions (Bitbucket) and from 37Signals perspective could probably make a better case that they could take care / migrate their customers.
Not sure why anybody would want to acquire Campfire? It's an utterly terrible product. If GitHub wanted to added chat collaboration features they'd write them from scratch based upon WebSockets / Socket.IO... not the legacy polling that Campfire does!
It's definitely possible but I wonder what Githubs strategy long term is and how it would fit into that. While I'm sure there are lot of people that use Campfire at GH (or maybe not), it may not be right for them to take care of and expand.
But Github is already doing what 37signals is aiming for and that is being a company focused on a single product. I'd think they want to maintain that.
"Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions"
Anyone care to take a guess to what Campfire and Highrise revenue? What type of multiple of revenue do they expect to get?
Congrats on figuring it out and having a clear focus, but also to trying a lot of things over the years and figuring out what works. And thank you for being so responsible with the future of your legacy products. There are too many companies that are too happy to simply shut down things as soon as ROI numbers don't line up.
Am I the only one who doesn't get why Basecamp is praised so much? I think it is okay, but nothing exceptionally. Also if I didn't knew the product, I would never signup when looking at the frontpage, it looks very outdated, and not very trustworthy. Hopefully a better focus, will make the experience more up-to-date.
" I would never signup when looking at the frontpage, it looks very outdated, and not very trustworthy. Hopefully a better focus, will make the experience more up-to-date."
Understandable move, focus on the one big product. And as far as company name is concerned, nobody outside our tech bubble has ever heard of "37 Signals".
The Q & A does highlight the reality distortion field around the cult-like status of 37 Signals though:
> Q: This is a really unusual strategy (..)
No. No it isn't. But if Jason Fried claims it is, I'm sure that will be echo-ed on HN.
(Not trying to be super negative, I consider 37 Signals a major source of inspiration, and I'm a Basecamp user.)
> Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions.
Amazing that those products are doing so well and they've largely been on autopilot for the past few years. This info + the switch to focus on Basecamp can only mean that they're making an absolute killing with Basecamp.
Seems like a weird strategy. I admire the focus shown, but what if Thomas Edison had decided after 10 years to rebrand GE as Something Something Light Bulbs, Inc?
It's a good idea for them to take the plunge and do this, because it pretty much just aligns their official strategy and brand with their actual strategy. Campfire hasn't seen an update in forever, and the rest of the ecosystem also felt like it was already in maintainable mode.
We already migrated away to Hipchat as a result, and I get the impression that others might have been doing the same.
No, it won't be a problem.. I'm sure they're already talking to Twitter about it. I heard something along the lines of accounts inactive for 6 months can be seized by Twitter.
Check us out at http://nutshell.com — we've got a one-click import tool from Highrise. We're an established, profitable company focused on CRM with gorgeous UI.
We use Capsule + Streak. We're big fans of streak, but it's a baby CRM perfect for pipelines... we use Capsule to manage all of the other stuff. (Who talked to whom, etc.)
Big news! We've been big fans of 37signals for a decade or so and in many ways they have inspired us in building Close.io. I love that they are able to make the hard decision to focus on one thing.
We want to take great care of any Highrise customers looking for a new home: http://close.io/highrise
Check out http://close.io/ - mention that you were a Highrise customer and I can make sure you'll get a special discount.
Close.io is a next-gen sales communication tracking tool with an easy 1-click migration from Highrise, as well as automatic 2-way email syncing, call tracking, etc. See what our customers say at https://www.quora.com/Reviews-of-Close-io
Your comment implies Highrise is going to disappear - however, that's not the case. They're either going to sell Highrise (to a buyer who is committed to keeping it running + growing) or continue to run it themselves in maintenance mode.
There are so many project management apps out there, the competition is fierce. For a proj mgmt app to succeed, there either has to be USP and massive value. For example, Asana is especially good. I haven't tried Basecamp recently but it wasn't as lightweight, low-cost and nice as Asana.
I am extremely interested in this space, both as a user and as a developer[1].
As it happens, I use (and pay for) both Asana and Basecamp. I use Asana internally with my own staff, and I use Basecamp externally with clients.
My clients tend to be non-technical businesses with custom software needs -- and most of them would be like "WHAT. THE. FUCK. HELLLP~!" if I asked them to use Asana. Keyboard shortcuts, context menus, sliding popovers, disclosure widgets, multiple views onto the same data/work-graph, aiiiighhhhh!
On the other hand, Basecamp has really nailed their niche -- the project management app that really is simple enough for 'average folks'. Making that choice completely alienates the tech-savvy power user that most of their competitors seem to be targeting (e.g. Flow, Wrike, Teamwork PM, Azendoo, Dooster, Teambox, TeamLab, Do.com, FMYI, to name just a few that I have evaluated and rejected).
Which 37Signals, oops I mean Basecamp, is obviously OK with, given Basecamp's massive user base and success. Basecamp is a pretty cool software story, and actually a pretty cool piece of software, even though it is too limited and underpowered for me to use it as my own primary project manager.
[1] I develop software (among other roles) for a living, but I develop project-management web app software mostly just in my fantasies and rage-imagination... spending many hours in a week in these apps really makes a person want to develop the One True Project Management app, though.
HOw is having two versions of Basecamp (old and new) simplification?
Also I think Asana is beating Basecamp in terms of having both simplicity and power, although I would say that the Basecamp UI is more simple than Asana, Asana is a lot faster and a lot more powerful and Asana is free for up to 15 users. I think Asana will take a lot of business away from Basecamp over the long term.
Having said that, in our business we use Jira, Asana and Basecamp (part of the reason for using all 3 is that we integrate our product with them). We keep Baecamp as a central repository of information and for that purpose Asana is not really as well suited.
For task management, Asana is way better than Basecamp.
[+] [-] gkoberger|12 years ago|reply
However, it's weird to lose the 37 Signals brand. I actually don't like Basecamp as a product, but I love 37 Signals. I treat their books like a bible, and read their blog posts religiously. Somehow, they seemed like more like a philosophy than just a product, and Basecamp (and Rails and their books) were a side effect.
I know it's the same people and nothing will really change (A rose by any other name...), but it's still so weird to me to lose 37 Signals.
[+] [-] AVTizzle|12 years ago|reply
2 years ago, I watched DHH's Startup School presentation on YouTube, and it completely changed the way I perceived what a "startup" could be.
Today, my partner and I are recently ramen profitable on our first SaaS product, and growing. It's extremely exciting - we're seeing the fruits of a project that we love actually paying our bills. "Exciting" probably isn't even the right word... we're building our way to financial freedom and liberation from the rat race.
Our business is our livelihood now, and you can find evidence of 37Signal's influence in every nook and cranny of it. Their writings and philosophy have affected our business and our lives deeply, so a deep emotional connection to the name is an obvious consequence.
It feels funny, but as Jason clearly alludes to at the end of the post, a lot of their moves have. I'm looking forward to following along as the future of Basecamp unfolds.
[+] [-] matthewrudy|12 years ago|reply
Basecamp doesn't work for how I organise projects, and Campfire is a poor competitor to HipChat.
But I frequently point to them as an example of how to run a company. And they know their customers really well.
I guess I'm just not one of their customers.
[+] [-] doodilin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aresant|12 years ago|reply
2004 first product launched.
5 years after the company and team came together.
5 years of time to hone the skills and struggle.
Oh yah, and another 10 years to grow to 43 people.
Simple reminder of the commitment to patience it can actually take to build a remarkable business.
[+] [-] eps|12 years ago|reply
They were formed to design websites and that's what they did for 5 years. Though I guess you can view web design as a "struggle" with all that IE6 testing and what not, but some people really enjoy it :)
[+] [-] quickpost|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] craigmccaskill|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dror|12 years ago|reply
Seems to me that they've been successful mostly because of their involvement in the Ruby and startup world, rather than making great products. Nothing wrong with that, but it's good to be clear about the distinction between a company that makes great product and a company that's good at marketing itself.
[+] [-] girvo|12 years ago|reply
Campfire is pretty bad though, yeah.
[+] [-] joshmlewis|12 years ago|reply
While everyone may not be happy with it, it's certainly better than a lot of shut downs and other moves startups have made that have pissed a lot of people off.
[+] [-] noelwelsh|12 years ago|reply
Also, did Jason Fried step out of a time machine with his IBM Selectric typewriter to compose this? 37Signals have always been on the hipster end of things but the design of this letter is ridiculously so.
[+] [-] tripzilch|12 years ago|reply
I gotta admit, while it's the content of the article that has 99% of my interest (going to miss the "37signals" name, but it sounds like they know exactly what they're doing, so good for them!), I did also pause and wonder about the Courier font as well as the "scribbly" version of the Basecamp logo.
But then, that's me, and sometimes a font is just a font? :)
[+] [-] luigi|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelbuckbee|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nbevans|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshmlewis|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robotcookies|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sstarr|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhonovich|12 years ago|reply
Anyone care to take a guess to what Campfire and Highrise revenue? What type of multiple of revenue do they expect to get?
[+] [-] sutterbomb|12 years ago|reply
[Addendum] Perhaps 6x was extremely low given the current market. Need to update my priors: http://tomtunguz.com/saas-valuation-bubble/
[+] [-] tibbon|12 years ago|reply
Here's to the future.
[+] [-] Uchikoma|12 years ago|reply
Though my guess is all the people who applauded 37signals for their product strategy, will now again applaud 37signals.
And there will be a book "The One Product Company".
[+] [-] PhilipA|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adrianhoward|12 years ago|reply
Almost certainly a sign that you're not the target market for basecamp. They do a lot of testing on their landing pages (see http://signalvnoise.com/posts/2991-behind-the-scenes-ab-test... for example.)
[+] [-] Myrmornis|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bowlofpetunias|12 years ago|reply
The Q & A does highlight the reality distortion field around the cult-like status of 37 Signals though:
> Q: This is a really unusual strategy (..)
No. No it isn't. But if Jason Fried claims it is, I'm sure that will be echo-ed on HN.
(Not trying to be super negative, I consider 37 Signals a major source of inspiration, and I'm a Basecamp user.)
[+] [-] guynamedloren|12 years ago|reply
> Based on current revenues, current growth rates, and a conservative multiple, Campfire will sell in the single digit millions, and Highrise will sell in the tens of millions.
Amazing that those products are doing so well and they've largely been on autopilot for the past few years. This info + the switch to focus on Basecamp can only mean that they're making an absolute killing with Basecamp.
[+] [-] bluefreeze|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chriskottom|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rimantas|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matthewmacleod|12 years ago|reply
We already migrated away to Hipchat as a result, and I get the impression that others might have been doing the same.
[+] [-] athaeryn|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thiele|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] guynamedloren|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tyrelb|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philfreo|12 years ago|reply
We've also got an easy migration tool for any existing Highrise users: http://close.io/highrise and a solid REST API http://developer.close.io/
[+] [-] andyfowler|12 years ago|reply
We're polishing up our new JSON-API-based http://jsonapi.org/ REST API, and we've got a well-supported JSON-RPC API published at http://nutshell.com/api
[+] [-] randall|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zingui|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aefeuer|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] owens99|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philfreo|12 years ago|reply
We want to take great care of any Highrise customers looking for a new home: http://close.io/highrise
Check out http://close.io/ - mention that you were a Highrise customer and I can make sure you'll get a special discount.
Close.io is a next-gen sales communication tracking tool with an easy 1-click migration from Highrise, as well as automatic 2-way email syncing, call tracking, etc. See what our customers say at https://www.quora.com/Reviews-of-Close-io
[+] [-] guynamedloren|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] owens99|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Xorlev|12 years ago|reply
Your navbar links don't seem work on your Highrise page.
[+] [-] midas007|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] veidr|12 years ago|reply
As it happens, I use (and pay for) both Asana and Basecamp. I use Asana internally with my own staff, and I use Basecamp externally with clients.
My clients tend to be non-technical businesses with custom software needs -- and most of them would be like "WHAT. THE. FUCK. HELLLP~!" if I asked them to use Asana. Keyboard shortcuts, context menus, sliding popovers, disclosure widgets, multiple views onto the same data/work-graph, aiiiighhhhh!
On the other hand, Basecamp has really nailed their niche -- the project management app that really is simple enough for 'average folks'. Making that choice completely alienates the tech-savvy power user that most of their competitors seem to be targeting (e.g. Flow, Wrike, Teamwork PM, Azendoo, Dooster, Teambox, TeamLab, Do.com, FMYI, to name just a few that I have evaluated and rejected).
Which 37Signals, oops I mean Basecamp, is obviously OK with, given Basecamp's massive user base and success. Basecamp is a pretty cool software story, and actually a pretty cool piece of software, even though it is too limited and underpowered for me to use it as my own primary project manager.
[1] I develop software (among other roles) for a living, but I develop project-management web app software mostly just in my fantasies and rage-imagination... spending many hours in a week in these apps really makes a person want to develop the One True Project Management app, though.
[+] [-] timedoctor|12 years ago|reply
Also I think Asana is beating Basecamp in terms of having both simplicity and power, although I would say that the Basecamp UI is more simple than Asana, Asana is a lot faster and a lot more powerful and Asana is free for up to 15 users. I think Asana will take a lot of business away from Basecamp over the long term.
Having said that, in our business we use Jira, Asana and Basecamp (part of the reason for using all 3 is that we integrate our product with them). We keep Baecamp as a central repository of information and for that purpose Asana is not really as well suited.
For task management, Asana is way better than Basecamp.
[+] [-] midas007|12 years ago|reply