I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what?
Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we could balls it all up, start a mindless war that tips the balance, refuse to cooperate in trade or keep the next Einstein in a poverty stricken barro to die of diseases we cure with a single needle.
but then we could not - we could survive on the knife edge - learn how to sail better, close to the wind.
Destruction is not inevitable - it is just somewhere between likely and probable. All the more reason not to give into dsspair - not let Ahabs obsessions distract him from the survival of the ship, but for us to watch and honestly discuss the ships course - and find a way for the whole world to choose together our next course.
(yeah a little too flowery language - sorry. it's late)
I question whether you even read, or worse, understood what Hedges was getting at with this piece. Hedges is essentially saying we should become Marxist, but here you are saying that maybe we can redeem ourselves and survive on the 'knife edge'. Hedges addresses this by quoting Emma Goldman about half-way through. Capitalism can't be fixed with a few patches here and there, it must be abolished and trying to appear moderate makes you no different than the crew members of Pequod who played into Ahab's mania.
The assumption here is that moderation is what has prevented the course of Pequod (and decaying civilizations) from correcting their course. You question what happens when we throw Ahab overboard while ignoring the fact that each passing minute and hour you let Ahab run free, your security and well-being are threatened. Why fuss over what happens when you toss Ahab over when Ahab poses a nearly immediate threat to your well-being? That's just more of the moderation that silently rationalizes Ahab's actions.
Hedges brought up a number of revolutionary thinkers from all walks of the revolutionary left, yet proposed we follow no single system. The subtext being that we need to move away from capitalism, and generally need to move to the left. Whether that's straight up Marxism or more moderate forms of radical schools of thought are secondary or even tertiary. The point is we need to change the course of the ship immediately, or we'll just repeat history for the thousandth time.
let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what?
We know what happens next, because it's already been tried. What happens when you mutiny and throw Ahab overboard: the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror; the Soviet Union; the Killing Fields in Cambodia. Revolution doesn't work because you can't fight destruction with destruction, and that's what revolution is: destruction.
the author laments the hubris and arrogance present in all societies, as if these exaggerations were bugs, and not features.
the arrogance of the leaders and the peddling of hope are there because we are all afraid, and nobody wants to admit it. he talks about the chasm of human reality and how you get burned if you get closed to it, and i agree - it makes sense. i came out burned. i was mad at the world for a while and wanted to tear the whole thing down, but i went back for a closer look because i figured there must have been something i'm missing. there is beauty at the bottom of it, and we can get through it.
there is still new land to be explored - we just can't get there by walking or sailing. the ENTIRE GALAXY awaits us if we can just get off this damned rock. let's peddle all the hope we need and beat our chests all day long; let's spread the gospel to heathen civilizations on other planets if that's what it takes for us to move out of this place and into another one. maybe we're just delaying the inevitable and the end of the galactic civilization will be that much more spectacular when it comes, but it's not as if we can go back in time to change all the "best guesses" our world was built on and the gentle lies that sustain it.
we are now heathens living on easter island. we know our civilization is built on a lie. we can either stop telling that lie and kill each other out of anger over mistakes our ancestors made doing the best they could, or we could all keep telling the lie, keep playing our assigned parts with a wink and a nod, and put fewer resources into enforcing what everybody knows is a sham story, and devote all our efforts into finding the new land we think might be out there over the great waters.
the only way through is forward. the only way out is up.
Don't apologize, the flowery language was quite refreshing on a site like this, programmers are usually really poor expositors and can really make you forget how enjoyable good writing is. On this site, you usually only get conciseness without elegance or verbosity without elegance, basically rarely any elegance!
Beautifully written and optimistic, but I would like to advise caution. There is only one currency in existence: Power.
Historically, power has been proportional to a willing population. Technology allows power to be decoupled from population, allowing a very tiny minority to exert massive global power. This is the real danger, whether it takes the form of government, corporation, elites or cults.
As power asymmetry becomes more and more pronounced due to technology, the average person becomes far more prone to subjugation. This is the reality we face. This enemy is far more challenging to fight than any historical precedent.
If ever there were an example of "appeal to an irrelevant authority" as a mode of argument, this overlong and histrionic essay would be it. Does it really matter what Moby Dick is about? Arguments should stand on reasoning and evidence, not pretentious allusions.
And then, of course, we get to fascism.
The sad thing is, I pretty much agree with the writer's sentiments, but this essay isn't going to convince anyone of anything.
I stopped reading at this point. Beside the fact that a U.S. Treasury bond is not a mortgage backed security, subprime mortgages have not been originated in several years. A discussion about central banking or U.S. monetary policy would be one thing, but this is factually incorrect.
I think people are missing the main point. Debt-equity swaps have been a major tool of the Federal Reserve in bailing out TBTF banks. Here's how it works:
I'm a banker. I paid $10B for MBSes in 2007. Big mistake. In 2008, their valuation fell to $0. So I do a swap with the Federal Reserve. I give Ben Bernake my portfolio of MBSes. And he gives me $10B in US Treasury Bonds he's purchased.
I never would have made a dime off my MBSes. But now, the US tax payer is on the hook for paying me $10B in principal plus interest. Meanwhile, the Fed puts "$10B" of MBSes on its books. Doesn't matter that these debts are worth zero. They get to do it...
I used to be VP of Mortgage Tax and Accounting at a Wall St. bank back in the 90s, and I try to stay up to date on this fiasco. I don't have a problem with what Chris Hedges said, just how he said it: he said it too fast, and it came out wrong. The main idea is still right.
It's not going to stop till the trillion or so it cost to stop the world economy collapsing is about as valuable as the outfitting for the Spanish-American war.
When the Cypriot government tried to take 6% of everyone's bank accounts there were riots in the streets. Our go ernments are doing the same thing, but we blame bankers.
This is incorrect just on the face of it. US Treasury bonds are simply government bonds, just like corporate or municipal bonds. They are NOT subprime mortgages. They are NOT mortgages. They are NOT worthless (unless you think the US will default on its bonds).
I couldn't make it past the first page of this article...
Chris Hedges took the red pill, and Agent Smith told him, "I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I've realized that you are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. But you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague."
The Matrix would have been a better allegory to use than Moby Dick, particularly for HNers. Moby Dick might appeal to Harvard-educated, Arabic-speaking, Vermont liberals like Hedges, but most of us haven't read it and don't want to.
It's not that I disagree with any of Hedges' major points, it's just that I find his presentation erudite, pretentious and snobbish.
Economist Kenneth Boulding summed this up more concisely: "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."
And if Capitalism is a "plague," what is the cure? Hedges talks about Marxist revolution, but stops short of calling for one, instead falling back on quotations from Shakespeare, and Kant, and Dante, and Black Elk, and Nazim Hikmet.
So, what is the cure?
1. War and revolutions aren't the answer: If they decimate the population, temporarily reducing resource consumption, decreasing the supply of labor so that wages might finally start rising again after 30 years of stagnation, then what? After all the misery and suffering that war brings, we've bought ourselves a few decades with a slightly more equitable wealth distribution, and put ecological disaster in check for a while, but it's only temporary, and our populations will soon grow themselves back into the same problems all over again.
2. Technology? Increased efficiency will only spur increased consumption. It's called Jevons paradox. Technology will only speed things up.
3. Accelerationism... Help the capitalists steal all the wealth and push us over the edge of ecological disaster. Evolution will make sure something else succeeds us.
4. Enlightenment: In the Gospel of Thomas, Saying 56, Jesus said, "Whoever has become acquainted with the world has found a corpse, and the world is not worthy of the one who has found the corpse."
The world is already dead, and there's nothing Chris Hedges can do about it! Whenever something we love dies, we experience mourning. The stages of mourning are--
Denial - Most of the people in the world are stuck in this stage.
Anger - This is where we find revolutionary groups like the Tea Party and OWS.
Bargaining - I think this is where Hedges finds himself. He really thinks there's a way to resurrect the planet--Art, Poetry, Novels--but he doesn't seem sure.
Depression - Lot's of people struggling at this stage. About 800,000 to a million people commit suicide per year.
Acceptance - Doesn't mean you're ever going to be happy again. It just means you're awake to reality.
The collapse of large nations is a Good Thing for the working class majority: the elite always want large nations, especially large nations with lots of racial, cultural and language divisions. That makes it easier for the elite to control the nation. It's called the 'divide et impera' strategy. That was the founding principle of the USA (see the letter from madison from jefferson wherein madison writes that the divide et impera (divide and rule) tactic is the way to rule america (madison was worth 100 mill in today's dollars when he got his inheritance; jefferson, almost the same)).
When the elite can no longer hold large, divided nations together via violence and or propaganda, the working class majority form smaller, more homogeneous, less divided nations, nations that can be more easily controlled by the workers, and less easily controlled by the elite.
Factions are the friend of the rich and the enemy of the masses.
How do the elite create factions so they can rule? Enlarge the nation; import foreigners, especially those of another race and culture; create propaganda that focuses on identity politics; etc etc.
Of course the centrally controlled dogma of the american edu-propaganda system has programmed us to feel bad about collapse of nations. Oh, it's so sad that such and such nation is breaking up.
But that is an elite-centric propaganda meme. It is always a good thing when nations collapse and fall apart--a good thing from the perspective of the working class majority. Of course the more "educated" you are, the more you take the perspective of the elite--in general.
Thanks for the detailed comment. But could you go into a bit more detail about how the elite actually benefit from factions within a large nation? Like with an example taking today's elite into account.
We could easily halve the money held by people in the united states, and not affect the wealth of 95% of individuals. And frankly, a lot of the "wealth" in our society is in moving money, and trying to convince people to buy stuff that they don't really need and does not benefit their quality of life significantly.
Not that I think a collapse is particularly likely, but even if one happens, it is very plausible that it won't really be that bad.
[+] [-] lifeisstillgood|12 years ago|reply
I kind of agree - but really let's say we listen to our inner doubts, we mutiny and throw Ahab overboard, we are still on a whaler in the middle of the ocean. Now what?
Our (global?) society is on course for destruction on the ocean - but that course is also sailing use closer to the promised land. Every innovation, every step closer to the singularity requires us to move faster, land more sure-footedly. Yes we could balls it all up, start a mindless war that tips the balance, refuse to cooperate in trade or keep the next Einstein in a poverty stricken barro to die of diseases we cure with a single needle.
but then we could not - we could survive on the knife edge - learn how to sail better, close to the wind.
Destruction is not inevitable - it is just somewhere between likely and probable. All the more reason not to give into dsspair - not let Ahabs obsessions distract him from the survival of the ship, but for us to watch and honestly discuss the ships course - and find a way for the whole world to choose together our next course.
(yeah a little too flowery language - sorry. it's late)
[+] [-] whydoesitmatter|12 years ago|reply
The assumption here is that moderation is what has prevented the course of Pequod (and decaying civilizations) from correcting their course. You question what happens when we throw Ahab overboard while ignoring the fact that each passing minute and hour you let Ahab run free, your security and well-being are threatened. Why fuss over what happens when you toss Ahab over when Ahab poses a nearly immediate threat to your well-being? That's just more of the moderation that silently rationalizes Ahab's actions.
Hedges brought up a number of revolutionary thinkers from all walks of the revolutionary left, yet proposed we follow no single system. The subtext being that we need to move away from capitalism, and generally need to move to the left. Whether that's straight up Marxism or more moderate forms of radical schools of thought are secondary or even tertiary. The point is we need to change the course of the ship immediately, or we'll just repeat history for the thousandth time.
[+] [-] pdonis|12 years ago|reply
We know what happens next, because it's already been tried. What happens when you mutiny and throw Ahab overboard: the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror; the Soviet Union; the Killing Fields in Cambodia. Revolution doesn't work because you can't fight destruction with destruction, and that's what revolution is: destruction.
[+] [-] MarkPNeyer|12 years ago|reply
the author laments the hubris and arrogance present in all societies, as if these exaggerations were bugs, and not features.
the arrogance of the leaders and the peddling of hope are there because we are all afraid, and nobody wants to admit it. he talks about the chasm of human reality and how you get burned if you get closed to it, and i agree - it makes sense. i came out burned. i was mad at the world for a while and wanted to tear the whole thing down, but i went back for a closer look because i figured there must have been something i'm missing. there is beauty at the bottom of it, and we can get through it.
there is still new land to be explored - we just can't get there by walking or sailing. the ENTIRE GALAXY awaits us if we can just get off this damned rock. let's peddle all the hope we need and beat our chests all day long; let's spread the gospel to heathen civilizations on other planets if that's what it takes for us to move out of this place and into another one. maybe we're just delaying the inevitable and the end of the galactic civilization will be that much more spectacular when it comes, but it's not as if we can go back in time to change all the "best guesses" our world was built on and the gentle lies that sustain it.
we are now heathens living on easter island. we know our civilization is built on a lie. we can either stop telling that lie and kill each other out of anger over mistakes our ancestors made doing the best they could, or we could all keep telling the lie, keep playing our assigned parts with a wink and a nod, and put fewer resources into enforcing what everybody knows is a sham story, and devote all our efforts into finding the new land we think might be out there over the great waters.
the only way through is forward. the only way out is up.
[+] [-] africanwarlord|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FD3SA|12 years ago|reply
Historically, power has been proportional to a willing population. Technology allows power to be decoupled from population, allowing a very tiny minority to exert massive global power. This is the real danger, whether it takes the form of government, corporation, elites or cults.
As power asymmetry becomes more and more pronounced due to technology, the average person becomes far more prone to subjugation. This is the reality we face. This enemy is far more challenging to fight than any historical precedent.
Only time will elucidate our fates.
[+] [-] Tloewald|12 years ago|reply
If ever there were an example of "appeal to an irrelevant authority" as a mode of argument, this overlong and histrionic essay would be it. Does it really matter what Moby Dick is about? Arguments should stand on reasoning and evidence, not pretentious allusions.
And then, of course, we get to fascism.
The sad thing is, I pretty much agree with the writer's sentiments, but this essay isn't going to convince anyone of anything.
[+] [-] Tycho|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spinchange|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ergoproxy|12 years ago|reply
I'm a banker. I paid $10B for MBSes in 2007. Big mistake. In 2008, their valuation fell to $0. So I do a swap with the Federal Reserve. I give Ben Bernake my portfolio of MBSes. And he gives me $10B in US Treasury Bonds he's purchased.
I never would have made a dime off my MBSes. But now, the US tax payer is on the hook for paying me $10B in principal plus interest. Meanwhile, the Fed puts "$10B" of MBSes on its books. Doesn't matter that these debts are worth zero. They get to do it...
Right now, the Fed has "$1.5T" of MBSes on their books from doing these deals. Source: http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/19/news/economy/federal-reserve...
I used to be VP of Mortgage Tax and Accounting at a Wall St. bank back in the 90s, and I try to stay up to date on this fiasco. I don't have a problem with what Chris Hedges said, just how he said it: he said it too fast, and it came out wrong. The main idea is still right.
[+] [-] lifeisstillgood|12 years ago|reply
It's not going to stop till the trillion or so it cost to stop the world economy collapsing is about as valuable as the outfitting for the Spanish-American war.
When the Cypriot government tried to take 6% of everyone's bank accounts there were riots in the streets. Our go ernments are doing the same thing, but we blame bankers.
[+] [-] prewett|12 years ago|reply
I couldn't make it past the first page of this article...
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] carbocation|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 911_Inside_Job|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] obblekk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ergoproxy|12 years ago|reply
The Matrix would have been a better allegory to use than Moby Dick, particularly for HNers. Moby Dick might appeal to Harvard-educated, Arabic-speaking, Vermont liberals like Hedges, but most of us haven't read it and don't want to.
It's not that I disagree with any of Hedges' major points, it's just that I find his presentation erudite, pretentious and snobbish.
Economist Kenneth Boulding summed this up more concisely: "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."
And if Capitalism is a "plague," what is the cure? Hedges talks about Marxist revolution, but stops short of calling for one, instead falling back on quotations from Shakespeare, and Kant, and Dante, and Black Elk, and Nazim Hikmet.
So, what is the cure?
1. War and revolutions aren't the answer: If they decimate the population, temporarily reducing resource consumption, decreasing the supply of labor so that wages might finally start rising again after 30 years of stagnation, then what? After all the misery and suffering that war brings, we've bought ourselves a few decades with a slightly more equitable wealth distribution, and put ecological disaster in check for a while, but it's only temporary, and our populations will soon grow themselves back into the same problems all over again.
2. Technology? Increased efficiency will only spur increased consumption. It's called Jevons paradox. Technology will only speed things up.
3. Accelerationism... Help the capitalists steal all the wealth and push us over the edge of ecological disaster. Evolution will make sure something else succeeds us.
4. Enlightenment: In the Gospel of Thomas, Saying 56, Jesus said, "Whoever has become acquainted with the world has found a corpse, and the world is not worthy of the one who has found the corpse."
The world is already dead, and there's nothing Chris Hedges can do about it! Whenever something we love dies, we experience mourning. The stages of mourning are--
Denial - Most of the people in the world are stuck in this stage.
Anger - This is where we find revolutionary groups like the Tea Party and OWS.
Bargaining - I think this is where Hedges finds himself. He really thinks there's a way to resurrect the planet--Art, Poetry, Novels--but he doesn't seem sure.
Depression - Lot's of people struggling at this stage. About 800,000 to a million people commit suicide per year.
Acceptance - Doesn't mean you're ever going to be happy again. It just means you're awake to reality.
[+] [-] squirejons|12 years ago|reply
When the elite can no longer hold large, divided nations together via violence and or propaganda, the working class majority form smaller, more homogeneous, less divided nations, nations that can be more easily controlled by the workers, and less easily controlled by the elite.
Factions are the friend of the rich and the enemy of the masses.
How do the elite create factions so they can rule? Enlarge the nation; import foreigners, especially those of another race and culture; create propaganda that focuses on identity politics; etc etc.
Of course the centrally controlled dogma of the american edu-propaganda system has programmed us to feel bad about collapse of nations. Oh, it's so sad that such and such nation is breaking up.
But that is an elite-centric propaganda meme. It is always a good thing when nations collapse and fall apart--a good thing from the perspective of the working class majority. Of course the more "educated" you are, the more you take the perspective of the elite--in general.
[+] [-] spiderPig|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kazagistar|12 years ago|reply
Not that I think a collapse is particularly likely, but even if one happens, it is very plausible that it won't really be that bad.
[+] [-] 2772726262562|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]