This case doesn't have anything to do with DRM as the title suggest. It's more clear in the article: "the java-bean equivalent of DRM". As far as I can tell it's actually just allegations of patent abuse and anti-competitive vertical integration.
Keurig had a patent on the technology for both machine and pod. That patent expired in 2012, allowing third-party vendors to start making pods. Treehouse Foods argues (among other things) that Keurig is changing the design of their machine and the pods. The allegation is that the new design doesn't have any practical purpose other than to maintain the patent on pods for several years.
If true, this is going to be an interesting case. Keurig can change the design of their machine whenever they want in theory, but can they do so for no other reason than to maintain their own market share? They'd be effectively forcing everyone to pay them to compete at all so long as people buy new machines.
Drug companies often employ similar patent tricks in order to maintain their dominance of a market via extended patents, patents on new uses for the same chemical, and slightly-altered and somewhat improved chemicals. Consumer groups have complained about this for years, but nothing serious has changed yet.
It might end up just being a new shape but the CEO's wording implies that it will be closer to what is used in printer ink cartridges. Following the trail from the submitted article to the article it links to and to the article that one links to finally takes us to the transcript of the CEO's earnings call: http://seekingalpha.com/article/1853341-green-mountain-coffe...
"While we're still not willing to discuss specifics about the platform for competitive reasons, we are confident it delivers game-changing performance. To ensure the system delivers on the promise of excellent quality beverages produced simply and consistently every brew every time, we use interactive technology to help us perfectly brew all Keurig brew packs. Because of this the system will not brew unlicensed packs."
"Keurig can change the design of their machine whenever they want in theory, but can they do so for no other reason than to maintain their own market share?"
That's a pretty simple issue to resolve. Yes, Keurig should be able to change their own product at will. Whether it's to maintain their market share or just for fun is irrelevant. If you get into the business of regulating coffee companies based on intentions related to subtle design changes and guessing whether it's directed at maintaining market share, what you'll have is a ridiculous government/business nightmare.
An attempt to generate a new patent from the trivial product change should be denied. Problem solved.
I actively try to dissuade people from buying Keurig machines, or any "coffee pod" machine and this is just another reason why. Aside from the fact that the coffee is watery, the pods just add such an unnecessary amount of garbage to something that doesn't need to generate any waste.
I think the concept is cool but re-usable pods are the way to go. This is stupid of Keurig.
The new pods (Keurig Vue pods) are recyclable[1]. Also, I don't care too much about my coffee taste, so it does a great job getting my caffeine with coffee flavor, especially when I'm the only person in the house that drinks coffee.
While my instinct is to agree with you, I suspect the waste and emissions from producing and transporting the coffee greatly outweigh those from the half-ounce plastic container .
I think Keurig coffee is terrible, so I've never seen one of the reusable pods. But what's the point, if you are going reusable isn't it just as easy to make a normal cup of coffee?
Other than the 2 reasons you mentioned, why else would you dissuade someone from buying one? I own one and don't mind the coffee. I agree with the garbage aspect, but for me I'd either buy a coffee everyday, or make one in the Keurig with a reusable cup. Equivalent waste in my mind (for my situation)
For people whose main complaint is watery coffee, but are not opposed to pod systems in general, try Nespresso. I find them a lot better than the coffee I have had from Keurig and Starbucks machines.
The coffee is pretty good -- better than most coffee shops, but not as good as a great one. Apparently they are actually used by a lot of restaurants when you order a coffee.
I have a Lavazza machine from AEG. The coffee is amazing, so the pods don't bother me anymore than my printer cartridges that I can only buy from Epson. It's a hoop I jump through because the perceived value obtained is worth it.
Conversely, I drive a 3.0 CSL because I won't drive something with a chip in it that I can't control.
This practice isn't what copyright was intended for when it was written into the constitution. The idea is that copyright is a time-limited monopoly to make money of immaterial property, it mustn't serve to lock out the secondary market for printer cartridges and coffee.
> Keurig is free to do what they want, just as a consumer is free to choose whichever coffee maker they want.
The issue isn't whether Keurig should be free to add DRM to their product or not. The issue is whether they should be able to use the law to prevent competitors from circumventing that DRM. Printer manufacturers tried a similar stunt with adding DRM to printer cartridges and suing the makers of after-market cartridges for DMCA violations.
IIRC, the EU took a different view on printers and printer cartridges. Those can no longer be 'DRMed'. I don't see why they would take a different view with coffee machines.
Ah, but the question is whether the consumer is free to choose whichever coffee maker REFILL they want.
The ethical and legal question is whether there's a good reason why Keurig should be allowed to forbid anyone else from manufacturing compatible refills (if they want to) or forbid customers from buying these refills (if they want to). As far as US law is concerned, do you think that prohibiting the manufacture of these compatible refills will "promote the progress of science and useful arts"? Because that is what Keurig is (effectively) claiming by relying on copyright law in this way.
I'm not sure why they would attempt this. If they think they're going to get DMCA protection out of it, Lexmark already lost a case that seems to be this exactly:
IANAL but the Lexmark case doesn't seem like it necessarily says the DMCA doesn't apply to physical products, just that it doesn't apply in the way that Lexmark implemented it. Also isn't part of the case still pending decision of the Supreme Court?
I feel completely out-nerded here. I shall just spoon some fine ground coffee from the local shop into my moka pot tomorrow and pop it on the hotplate.
As others have said, I actually like the reflective few minutes the process takes early in the morning with the back door open...
Well, if you like coffee and are in the US (or Canada maybe now, I'm not sure) I'd recommend checking out Tonx (www.tonx.org) I've been subscribed for about a year and a half now and can say that I really love everything they send us.
It's not going to get you some instant Keurig coffee but honestly you don't have 10 minutes in the morning to brew something decent? Like put it on and then get dressed or something.
So what is an option for easily brewing a single cup of coffee without pods that will lock you into a specific machine? The things that I like about my Keurig are that you can get 4 to 6 cups before having to refill the water tank and that it’s easy to clean. While I don’t mind having to throw away a filter I would like to avoid having to refill a machine with water every time I want another cup of coffee.
French press. 0% packaging garbage, extracts 100% of the good of coffee. Numerous suppliers. Compatible with any hot water devices and coffee packaging. Larger models are easily configured to produce single or several cup amounts. Portable models can get you out the door as soon as the water is hot and you can drink on the way.
A modern electric kettle + small cup-sized drip cone / french press?
Modern electric kettles are awesome, they're insulated so can keep the water at the perfect temperature for ages... most have a "90degC" setting that's right for coffee. They're perfectly suited to cup-at-a-time usage (and often have a form-factor designed for dispensing into a cup without lifting the kettle).
I use a drip-cone on top of my cup, and love it... :]
[Offhand, this seems like such a simple task that complex and expensive solutions like the Keurig seem a bit silly, unless they yield clearly superior results—which the Keurig apparently doesn't....]
I'd be interested in knowing of a Keurig alternative as well. I realize everyone in here is saying the coffee is terrible, but frankly it's good enough for me. If that makes me a philistine, so be it. Personally, the convenience trumps a lot of other factors when it comes to coffee.
I could never justify the cost of a Keurig when a traditional coffee maker costs just 20% the price. After using a drip machine for many years I finally decided to brave a more unique solution, the Aeropress. Now I know what great coffee tastes like. I tried a Keurig equivalent recently and I can't believe how much worse it tastes. With a Keurig you pay a premium price for poor quality coffee.
For me, my Keurig is a combination of speed, convenience and utility. The coffee it makes is a method for caffeine delivery, not coffee enjoyment. On the weekends or when I have more time, I'll make a better cup of coffee. Monday morning when I'm trying to get to work, I'll grab a travel mug of Keurig.
I suppose that one of the benefits of not drinking coffee is not needing to worry about all of this.
The lunch room at the office has a Keurig machine and it gets jammed a lot because of the air pressure differential (Denver is at 5200 feet). If you don't properly puncture the package when you insert it, the air pressure causes something to go wrong and the machine jams up.
So now I have to ONLY buy approved pods so I can drink coffee and tea that tastes like shit? No thanks. I'll keep buying my whole bean and using my AeroPress. Not as convenient but they're also not greedy doucecopters.
This strategy seems kind of backwards to me. Keurig isn't a dominant household appliance marketer using that position to jumpstart a lucrative tie-in sideline. While that would be regrettable for consumers, it might actually work for the marketer. Rather, they are a food marketer who will attempt to defend their "primary" business with a tenuous temporary lead in a kitchen appliance category. How long will it be until Hamilton-Beach, Panasonic, Oster, or KitchenAid notice this market oddity and stomp them flat? Maybe Keurig should just roast better coffee?
This reminds me very much of the situation we had here in Switzerland. Two years ago Nestle's Swiss patent on their capsules expired, so now the market gets flooded with third party 'compatible' capsules. Lately they've introduced new Nespresso machines that automatically eject the used capsules using an electric motor. This has introduced much smaller tolerances, so the machine often gets stuck on third party capsules.
>third-party pod refills that often retail for 5-25% less than what Keurig charges
How expensive are these pods? I certainly understand going generic to save 25% but a K-cup machine strikes me as a premium product. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd think the people willing/able to pay extra for a high end coffee maker wouldn't waste time experimenting with generics to save 5% (what, a couple cents a cup at most?).
It's about convenience. Also consider that many workplaces provide the Keurig machine in common areas (kitchens, cafeterias) for employees to use their own k-cups with. One of my former employers actually had a contract with their vending machine provider where the Keurig machines were provided for free, but they were required to purchase a minimum monthly k-cup amount from the vendor.
The reasoning was that "a lot of coffee is being thrown out in the afternoon", so they wanted to cut waste by using the Keurig machine in the afternoon when fewer people were making coffee. When you actually do the math, an entire pot of coffee (10 cups) cost the same as a single Keurig cup. The logic didn't seem very sound to me, and I suspect it had more to do with the convenience of making a single cup and not having to clean up after yourself.
The k-cups cost about 30 to 50 cents each, unless you buy thousands of them.
"Such lock-out technology cannot be justified based on any purported consumer benefit, and Green Mountain itself has admitted that the lock-out technology is not essential for the new brewers’ function. Like its exclusionary agreements, this lock-out technology is intended to serve anticompetitive and unlawful ends."
This is not different from any other DRM mechanism. Unfortunately, that also makes it legal.
[+] [-] ignostic|12 years ago|reply
Keurig had a patent on the technology for both machine and pod. That patent expired in 2012, allowing third-party vendors to start making pods. Treehouse Foods argues (among other things) that Keurig is changing the design of their machine and the pods. The allegation is that the new design doesn't have any practical purpose other than to maintain the patent on pods for several years.
If true, this is going to be an interesting case. Keurig can change the design of their machine whenever they want in theory, but can they do so for no other reason than to maintain their own market share? They'd be effectively forcing everyone to pay them to compete at all so long as people buy new machines.
Drug companies often employ similar patent tricks in order to maintain their dominance of a market via extended patents, patents on new uses for the same chemical, and slightly-altered and somewhat improved chemicals. Consumer groups have complained about this for years, but nothing serious has changed yet.
[+] [-] jccalhoun|12 years ago|reply
"While we're still not willing to discuss specifics about the platform for competitive reasons, we are confident it delivers game-changing performance. To ensure the system delivers on the promise of excellent quality beverages produced simply and consistently every brew every time, we use interactive technology to help us perfectly brew all Keurig brew packs. Because of this the system will not brew unlicensed packs."
[+] [-] adventured|12 years ago|reply
That's a pretty simple issue to resolve. Yes, Keurig should be able to change their own product at will. Whether it's to maintain their market share or just for fun is irrelevant. If you get into the business of regulating coffee companies based on intentions related to subtle design changes and guessing whether it's directed at maintaining market share, what you'll have is a ridiculous government/business nightmare.
An attempt to generate a new patent from the trivial product change should be denied. Problem solved.
[+] [-] mikegioia|12 years ago|reply
I think the concept is cool but re-usable pods are the way to go. This is stupid of Keurig.
[+] [-] jcampbell1|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edj|12 years ago|reply
1: http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/22/ristretto-chem...
2: http://www.bluebottlecoffee.com/preparation-guides/chemex
[+] [-] kyrra|12 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.vuerecycling.com/
[+] [-] danepowell|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lutorm|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giarc|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CoachRufus87|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mkching|12 years ago|reply
The coffee is pretty good -- better than most coffee shops, but not as good as a great one. Apparently they are actually used by a lot of restaurants when you order a coffee.
[+] [-] Spearchucker|12 years ago|reply
Conversely, I drive a 3.0 CSL because I won't drive something with a chip in it that I can't control.
[+] [-] Kadrith|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sliverstorm|12 years ago|reply
What do you consider used coffee grounds? Product?
[+] [-] chris_wot|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giarc|12 years ago|reply
Maybe this will blow up in their face, or perhaps given their market share it will all work out.
[+] [-] HarryHirsch|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elliotz|12 years ago|reply
The issue isn't whether Keurig should be free to add DRM to their product or not. The issue is whether they should be able to use the law to prevent competitors from circumventing that DRM. Printer manufacturers tried a similar stunt with adding DRM to printer cartridges and suing the makers of after-market cartridges for DMCA violations.
[+] [-] kjjw|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcherm|12 years ago|reply
The ethical and legal question is whether there's a good reason why Keurig should be allowed to forbid anyone else from manufacturing compatible refills (if they want to) or forbid customers from buying these refills (if they want to). As far as US law is concerned, do you think that prohibiting the manufacture of these compatible refills will "promote the progress of science and useful arts"? Because that is what Keurig is (effectively) claiming by relying on copyright law in this way.
[+] [-] nsxwolf|12 years ago|reply
Lexmark Int'l v. Static Control Components http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark_Int'l_v._Static_Control...
All they can do is make it harder for competitors to make compatible cups, but that sounds like a fool's errand.
[+] [-] eli|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keithpeter|12 years ago|reply
As others have said, I actually like the reflective few minutes the process takes early in the morning with the back door open...
[+] [-] HeyLaughingBoy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shittyanalogy|12 years ago|reply
Pod Coffee: Single use plastic pods with a foil lid inside a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. Coffee to volume is very sparse for shipping.
The benefit of not having to use a spoon is worth all the extra trash? Now with DRM?
[+] [-] eddieroger|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jgh|12 years ago|reply
It's not going to get you some instant Keurig coffee but honestly you don't have 10 minutes in the morning to brew something decent? Like put it on and then get dressed or something.
[+] [-] jareds|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] knappador|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snogglethorpe|12 years ago|reply
Modern electric kettles are awesome, they're insulated so can keep the water at the perfect temperature for ages... most have a "90degC" setting that's right for coffee. They're perfectly suited to cup-at-a-time usage (and often have a form-factor designed for dispensing into a cup without lifting the kettle).
I use a drip-cone on top of my cup, and love it... :]
[Offhand, this seems like such a simple task that complex and expensive solutions like the Keurig seem a bit silly, unless they yield clearly superior results—which the Keurig apparently doesn't....]
[+] [-] anotherevan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] binxbolling|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dublinben|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hawkee|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eddieroger|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Osiris|12 years ago|reply
The lunch room at the office has a Keurig machine and it gets jammed a lot because of the air pressure differential (Denver is at 5200 feet). If you don't properly puncture the package when you insert it, the air pressure causes something to go wrong and the machine jams up.
[+] [-] utopkara|12 years ago|reply
http://www.coffeedetective.com/is-the-plastic-used-in-keurig...
[+] [-] Zelphyr|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jessaustin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drdaeman|12 years ago|reply
Luckily, this applies only to pods and guess probably can't do anything like that with the machines using whole beans.
[+] [-] m_mueller|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pwenzel|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kgermino|12 years ago|reply
How expensive are these pods? I certainly understand going generic to save 25% but a K-cup machine strikes me as a premium product. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd think the people willing/able to pay extra for a high end coffee maker wouldn't waste time experimenting with generics to save 5% (what, a couple cents a cup at most?).
[+] [-] AUmrysh|12 years ago|reply
The reasoning was that "a lot of coffee is being thrown out in the afternoon", so they wanted to cut waste by using the Keurig machine in the afternoon when fewer people were making coffee. When you actually do the math, an entire pot of coffee (10 cups) cost the same as a single Keurig cup. The logic didn't seem very sound to me, and I suspect it had more to do with the convenience of making a single cup and not having to clean up after yourself.
The k-cups cost about 30 to 50 cents each, unless you buy thousands of them.
[+] [-] makomk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brianbreslin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bunderbunder|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joesmo|12 years ago|reply
This is not different from any other DRM mechanism. Unfortunately, that also makes it legal.
[+] [-] jotm|12 years ago|reply