While off topic, i found this interesting bit of information on the a10's gun wiki page.
"The recoil force of the GAU-8/A[16] is 10,000 pounds-force (45 kN),[3] which is slightly more than the output of one of the A-10's two TF34 engines (9,065 lbf / 40.3 kN each).[17] While this recoil force is significant, in practice cannon fire only slows the aircraft a few miles per hour in level flight."
The gun firing produces more force through recoil on the plane then is produced by one of the plane's engines. That is simply amazing.
> The GAU-8 Avenger fires up to sixty one-pound bullets a second. It produces almost five tons of recoil force, which is crazy considering that it’s mounted in a type of plane (the A-10 “Warthog”) whose two engines produce only four tons of thrust each. If you put two of them in one aircraft, and fired both guns forward while opening up the throttle, the guns would win and you’d accelerate backward.
> To put it another way: If I mounted a GAU-8 on my car, put the car in neutral, and started firing backward from a standstill, I would be breaking the interstate speed limit in less than three seconds.
The A-10 is a truly amazing airplane, in large part due to the main gun, and has proved its usefulness again and again in real combat situations. Its extended air-to-ground capabilities (which are the vast majority of our air power needs in modern warfare) are unmatched by any other plane or chopper on the armed forces, and for all that it was a remarkably inexpensive plane to build. But despite all that, no new A-10s have been produced in 20 years, they're being retired at the rate of two each month, and the Air Force wants to replace them with the debacle that is the F-35.
Guns producing more recoil than an aircraft's powertrain is nothing new. In WW2 fighters would be slowed when firing larger calibre weapons, noticeably impacting airspeed, especially with repeated firing.
The A-10 engines were initially susceptible to flameout when subjected to gases generated in the firing of the gun. When the GAU-8 is being fired, the smoke from the gun can make the engines stop, and this did occur during initial flight testing. Gun exhaust is essentially oxygen-free, and is certainly capable of causing flame-outs of gas turbines. The A-10 engines now have a self-sustaining combustion section. When the gun is fired the igniters come on to reduce the possibility of a flame-out.
This reminded me of driving the tanks in the video game Grand Theft Auto, Vice City. If you wanted to go faster, a good option was to turn the turret backwards and fire.
My dad has always said that the A-10 is an infantryman's best friend. an F-16 or F-18 will straff over the battle field and is gone. an A-10 will just hang around.
When I was younger we went to a nature preserve that is adjacent to the gunnery range at Moody Air Force base. We went up in an observation tower overlooking the preserve and watched A-10s do strafing practice. The sound of the GAU-8 main gun is something you have to hear to believe. If bad intentions have a sound it's that gun.
It really demonstrates the problem with the American military bureaucratic structure - all the best attempts they made with rotary combat aircraft couldn't really measure up to the A-10 in that role, but the army wasn't allowed to operate fixed-wing combat aircraft so they had to rely on the air-force to do that... and the air-force infrastructure and culture doesn't really properly "map" to the kind of work the A-10 did.
Regardless, the A-10 is an anachronism now. Its chief advantage was its ruggedness and ability to properly explore the battlefield when attacking unlike faster, more fragile aircraft... and now they have drones that fill that role of "slow enough to look around before opening fire and we don't care quite so much if it gets shot".
No kidding! I was at a shooting range long time ago, and I still remember that "brup BRUP!" of those cannons going off (double because you hear the sonic boom of the bullets before you hear the bullets themselves).
One of my favorite military planes for sure. Sad that it's getting decommissioned but it has served us well.
If you ask any soldier who's been in Iraq or Afghanistan what their favorite sound is, everyone will answer that it's the Warthog providing air support. It's provided welcome relief the world over.
It's a shame that it's being mothballed. The Air Force has always hated the plane. It's a shame we can't just turn it over to the Army.
Another great advantage of that plane is just how durable it was. It could take massive damage yet stay in the air. Of course, pilot skill's important, too.
> The sound of the GAU-8 main gun is something you have to hear to believe. If bad intentions have a sound it's that gun.
I've only heard it in videos, and all I could think of is that it sounds like God Himself farting. You can't hear individual reports, just one long BRRAAAAP.
The A-10 is a cold war designed attack jet to be used to take out Soviet tanks. Its really good at slow (relatively) , guided, precise air-to-ground strikes. I think it would make a good candidate for a new class of a drones fleet.
A joke I heard is that if Air Force was allowed to buy whatever plane it wanted, every single one of them would be a single seat jet fighter that goes very fast. No cargo plane, no helicopter, no tanker, no CAS plane.
Air Force should just hand over A-10 to Army, the ones who really know how valuable A-10 is.
I was really expecting something 10x more complex (e.g. A special WiFi-reflecting paint that prevents missiles from stealing the A-10s bandwidth or some such).
I love how simple yet effective it is. A very "just-use-a-pencil-in-outer-space"-type solution.
Note that what you seem to be referring to is an urban legend [1]. Initially both NASA and the Russians used pencils, but they were quickly deemed potentially hazardous because they shed graphite flakes that in microgravity may end up in places where you don't want them - being electrically conductive they may even cause short-circuits. Simple ball-point pens work fine in microgravity because they rely on the capillary effect, not gravity, to work.
A pencil in space is a very bad idea. It will create floating graphite shards that are conductive and could short out critical equipment (as well as not being great health-wise).
Actually, even though it is an urban legend, it is something I could see the USSR doing with their disregard for their astronauts' safety.
The village where I grew up in Scotland is on a headland on the coast and was near a couple of RAF bases - it seemed a popular route point so my childhood had a lot of very low flying military aircraft about so I guess we were all used to the noise.
Then came the day when there was a Vulcan bomber doing apparently doing aerobatics at a fairly low level over the village - it's probably close to 40 years but I don't think I will ever forget that utterly glorious sound....
[Edit: the sight of a Vulcan being thrown around the sky isn't something I'll forget either!]
The painted false cockpit was first operationally used on Canadian CF-18 Hornets, but derived from USAF research in conjunction with an aviation artist.
The amount of silly garbage in this thread is astounding. I thought you HN folks were supposed to be smart. Anyone here actually fly A-10s? Or been on the ground and had one support you?
No, the plane does not slow down when you shoot the gun.
Source: I have almost 3000 hours in this plane. Flew today, actually.
My guess was a variation: as a warning to ground personnel not to touch that area of the fuselage, as after any recent firing of the GAU-8 that area would be "HOT PLATE".
When I was a kid I saw this demo tape and was blown away by how lethal and intimidating the A-10 looked. Ever since I've been fascinated with it. The video quality is very poor because this was shot in the late seventies or early eighties but it demonstrates the ferocity of the plane pretty well.
Ships in WWII used to use techniques like this as well. I saw a great exhibit on camouflage at the Imperial War Museum that featured quite a few examples of this:
This camouflage was effective not at hiding the ship, but denying the U-Boat captains the ability to see in which direction it's moving to properly launch torpedoes. The patterned painting makes it harder to find where the bow is pointing to.
I was more surprised to read that it was patented. Not that it doesn't make sense, but I had never considered that governments might not use a particular military tool because of a licensing issue.
It has no place in air-to-air combat other than trying to not get shot down. It is a dedicated ground attack, CAS platform. It has seen plenty of use in that role in Iraq and Afghanistan. I believe the Soviets in Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, and the Taliban both refer to it as the "Devil's Cross".
Probably one of my greatest memories from NTC is being on a hill, and having an A-10 crest the hill, inverted, and then roll over as it continues down the other side on its way to attack a column of OPFOR armor. F-16s and F-18s would just zip right by and be gone in a second. The A-10s would lazily swing back and forth as they worked their way down the valley.
I don't think there has been really Air - Air combat in a very long time. (Vietnam?) - though using this on a A10 makes a lot of sense, tricking ground forces yo think you're banking in their direction when your not and tricking enemy aircraft of the same can give an advantage.
[+] [-] jug6ernaut|12 years ago|reply
"The recoil force of the GAU-8/A[16] is 10,000 pounds-force (45 kN),[3] which is slightly more than the output of one of the A-10's two TF34 engines (9,065 lbf / 40.3 kN each).[17] While this recoil force is significant, in practice cannon fire only slows the aircraft a few miles per hour in level flight."
The gun firing produces more force through recoil on the plane then is produced by one of the plane's engines. That is simply amazing.
Edit: The guns wiki page(it has a wiki page).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger
[+] [-] Avenger42|12 years ago|reply
https://what-if.xkcd.com/21/
> The GAU-8 Avenger fires up to sixty one-pound bullets a second. It produces almost five tons of recoil force, which is crazy considering that it’s mounted in a type of plane (the A-10 “Warthog”) whose two engines produce only four tons of thrust each. If you put two of them in one aircraft, and fired both guns forward while opening up the throttle, the guns would win and you’d accelerate backward.
> To put it another way: If I mounted a GAU-8 on my car, put the car in neutral, and started firing backward from a standstill, I would be breaking the interstate speed limit in less than three seconds.
[+] [-] skywhopper|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beaker52|12 years ago|reply
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/can-gun-recoil-rea...
[+] [-] ekianjo|12 years ago|reply
The A-10 engines were initially susceptible to flameout when subjected to gases generated in the firing of the gun. When the GAU-8 is being fired, the smoke from the gun can make the engines stop, and this did occur during initial flight testing. Gun exhaust is essentially oxygen-free, and is certainly capable of causing flame-outs of gas turbines. The A-10 engines now have a self-sustaining combustion section. When the gun is fired the igniters come on to reduce the possibility of a flame-out.
[+] [-] logfromblammo|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carstimon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] callmeed|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericcumbee|12 years ago|reply
When I was younger we went to a nature preserve that is adjacent to the gunnery range at Moody Air Force base. We went up in an observation tower overlooking the preserve and watched A-10s do strafing practice. The sound of the GAU-8 main gun is something you have to hear to believe. If bad intentions have a sound it's that gun.
[+] [-] Pxtl|12 years ago|reply
Regardless, the A-10 is an anachronism now. Its chief advantage was its ruggedness and ability to properly explore the battlefield when attacking unlike faster, more fragile aircraft... and now they have drones that fill that role of "slow enough to look around before opening fire and we don't care quite so much if it gets shot".
[+] [-] at-fates-hands|12 years ago|reply
Proof right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wQ0BXExYkg
The commentary is priceless on this one.
More proof right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhoYnpgm-g
Get goosebumps every time I watch those. Too bad they're being retired.
[+] [-] jameskilton|12 years ago|reply
One of my favorite military planes for sure. Sad that it's getting decommissioned but it has served us well.
[+] [-] thorntonbf|12 years ago|reply
It's a shame that it's being mothballed. The Air Force has always hated the plane. It's a shame we can't just turn it over to the Army.
[+] [-] jloughry|12 years ago|reply
This is going in the quotes file. I logged in just to upvote you for that.
[+] [-] BrandonMarc|12 years ago|reply
For proof, look at the story of Kim Campbell:
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/kimcampbell.html
The article has loads of good pictures of the plane, the gun, and the damage she took over Iraq. It's amazing to see.
[+] [-] PhasmaFelis|12 years ago|reply
I've only heard it in videos, and all I could think of is that it sounds like God Himself farting. You can't hear individual reports, just one long BRRAAAAP.
[+] [-] rasur|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmaunder|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] larrydag|12 years ago|reply
The A-10 is a cold war designed attack jet to be used to take out Soviet tanks. Its really good at slow (relatively) , guided, precise air-to-ground strikes. I think it would make a good candidate for a new class of a drones fleet.
[+] [-] jmount|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dba7dba|12 years ago|reply
Air Force should just hand over A-10 to Army, the ones who really know how valuable A-10 is.
[+] [-] dylanrw|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidedicillo|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beebs93|12 years ago|reply
I love how simple yet effective it is. A very "just-use-a-pencil-in-outer-space"-type solution.
[+] [-] Sharlin|12 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
[+] [-] nodata|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blueskin_|12 years ago|reply
Actually, even though it is an urban legend, it is something I could see the USSR doing with their disregard for their astronauts' safety.
[+] [-] thearn4|12 years ago|reply
False cockpit aside, the A-10 is my favorite plane of all time. It has a sound that's really unmistakable.
(well, technically I guess it's the GAU-8 making the sound...)
[+] [-] arethuza|12 years ago|reply
The village where I grew up in Scotland is on a headland on the coast and was near a couple of RAF bases - it seemed a popular route point so my childhood had a lot of very low flying military aircraft about so I guess we were all used to the noise.
Then came the day when there was a Vulcan bomber doing apparently doing aerobatics at a fairly low level over the village - it's probably close to 40 years but I don't think I will ever forget that utterly glorious sound....
[Edit: the sight of a Vulcan being thrown around the sky isn't something I'll forget either!]
[+] [-] dingaling|12 years ago|reply
So the A-10 community adopted it second-hand.
[+] [-] dylanrw|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beat|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] evanm|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Warhawg01|12 years ago|reply
No, the plane does not slow down when you shoot the gun.
Source: I have almost 3000 hours in this plane. Flew today, actually.
[+] [-] cushychicken|12 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger
[+] [-] lake_rogue|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dkrich|12 years ago|reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVvAQHz5jGs
[+] [-] frou_dh|12 years ago|reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw
Themes of bloat and unwarranted complexity are perhaps universal.
[+] [-] WalterBright|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xbryanx|12 years ago|reply
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30019323
[+] [-] hcarvalhoalves|12 years ago|reply
This camouflage was effective not at hiding the ship, but denying the U-Boat captains the ability to see in which direction it's moving to properly launch torpedoes. The patterned painting makes it harder to find where the bow is pointing to.
[+] [-] bch|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tehwebguy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arethuza|12 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyespot_%28mimicry%29
[+] [-] Shivetya|12 years ago|reply
http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-65-razzle-dazz...
[+] [-] rplnt|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snits|12 years ago|reply
Probably one of my greatest memories from NTC is being on a hill, and having an A-10 crest the hill, inverted, and then roll over as it continues down the other side on its way to attack a column of OPFOR armor. F-16s and F-18s would just zip right by and be gone in a second. The A-10s would lazily swing back and forth as they worked their way down the valley.
[+] [-] kenrikm|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BrownBuffalo|12 years ago|reply