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trycatch | 12 years ago
In Ukraine only 5 foreign TV channels were banned -- Vesti, Russia 24, ORT (First Channel World Network), RTR Planet, and NTV World. All of them were state-sponsored mouthpieces of Russian Goebbels-style propaganda, and it's in a country invaded by Russia. No wonder that these propaganda channels of foreign aggressors were banned.
In Russia Kremlin attacks its own legitimate independent from state press and opposition leaders. Russian independent TV channels were already destroyed long before (with exception of Dozhd that was attacked only recently), but yesterday Kremlin started to broadly use one more method in its fight against freedom of press -- Internet filters. And that what EFF article is about.
These situations have very little in common, and they very bundled together only to be used in the standard "but you are lynching negroes" argument.
> I don't necessarily agree with Russian government definition of 'extremist/radical', but their point is that above Russian sites have given their pages to neo-Nazis to call to armed struggle against the state.
Eh, neo-Nazis to call to armed struggle against the state? That's just bullshit. Good example, why Russian Goebbels-style propaganda is a problem.
malkung|12 years ago
Why do you think it's bullshit? Have you seen those images from Kiev of people throwing cobbles and Molotov cocktails at police, and some firing guns? That's armed struggle against the state. Do you know that these people (not babushkas and pretty girls waving flags) belong to political parties or paramilitary groups confirmed as neo-Nazi in Europe (not just in Russia)?
trycatch|12 years ago
> They have tried to scare us (and are continuing their attempts) with “Bandera followers” and “Fascists” attempting to wrest away the helm of Ukrainian society, with imminent Jewish progroms. Yes, we are well aware that the political opposition and the forces of social protests who have secured changes for the better are made up of different groups. They include nationalistic groups, but even the most marginal do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.
Or read "All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress: Antisemitism Not on the Rise" [2]. Or read articles on the website of Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine [3]. It observes antisemitic forces in Ukraine for decades, however I didn't find a single article that saw some threat from Maidan forces. But there are a lot of articles against Putin propaganda that exaggerates "neo-Nazi" threat. Neo-Nazi hazard from protesters in Ukraine is nothing more than an invention of Russian propaganda. If there is a fascist danger in Ukraine, it originates from Russian and pro-Russian forces that attack peaceful demonstrations, kill people, intimidate journalists, kidnap and shot in activists, invade foreign countries with intention to annex them.
[1] http://eajc.org/page32/news43672.html
[2] http://www.interpretermag.com/all-ukrainian-jewish-congress-...
[3] http://www.vaadua.org/ (in Russian)
1gor|12 years ago
Thanks for confirming that 5 TV channels carrying alternative views are banned in Ukraine. That's no problem for you because you call them propaganda.
Some people disagree. A lot of Ukrainians Russian-speakers feel that their point of view is not represented in Ukrainian official media, and that Russian news provide some valuable alternative. After all, one of the first laws of new Kiev govt was an anti-Russian language law.
And then in a single breath you deny neo-Nazi issue as a bullshit. You obviously know that lenta.ru editor was fired allegedly for publishing a link to Ukrainian "Right Sector" content.
Next you of may want to deny that Svoboda and their paramilitary wing Right Sector are neo-nazis... I could refer to to European Union officials expressing concern about Svoboda's position in Kiev government, but I think my arguments will be lost on you.
adobriyan|12 years ago
i'd call them what they are: clueless idiots
this video is for our wannabe freedom lovers http://oper.ru/news/read.php?t=1051613380
(in russian)
trycatch|12 years ago
Of course. Because you are completely under influence of that propaganda.
> You obviously know that lenta.ru editor was fired allegedly for publishing a link to Ukrainian "Right Sector" content.
She was fired, because Lenta became too popular and Kremlin decided to take over it.
> Thanks for confirming that 5 TV channels carrying alternative views are banned in Ukraine.
They don't hold any alternative views, or any views at all. They are just propaganda mouthpieces, their purpose is influence people in some direction -- and that's all. If they need, they straight up fabricate "news" out of thin air [1][2][3][4][5]. If they need they'll change their political "views" in day, because in fact they don't hold any. That's the difference between legitimate media, even very biased one, and just pure propaganda.
> Next you of may want to deny that Svoboda and their paramilitary wing Right Sector are neo-nazis...
Yes, they are not neo-Nazis, that's your Goebbels propaganda again, I commented about it there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7400870 However, beloved by Kremlin propaganda "people's governor" Gubarev from Donetsk was one of the neo-Nazis from RNE: http://imgur.com/a/QeuZp
[1] http://fakecontrol.org/blog/2014/03/08/tass-upolnomochien-za...
[2] http://fakecontrol.org/blog/2014/03/06/cyrillic-cancellation...
[3] http://fakecontrol.org/blog/2014/03/03/2-girls-1-fake/
[4] http://fakecontrol.org/blog/2014/03/03/vtoroi-pasport/
[5] http://fakecontrol.org/blog/2014/03/02/first_channel_geograp...