The reaction by the community is completely irrational. Facebook has largely left Parse, Instagram, and WhatsApp alone. It hasn't required people to use Facebook to log into those services nor has it shoved ads in Parse developers' faces. By all accounts, they simply seem to be buying companies with great products and potential and just giving them the resources to continue to grow and improve.
It makes absolutely zero sense for Facebook to meddle with Oculus by pursuing any of the ridiculous paths people are worried about like trying to integrate the Rift into the Facebook platform or turn away from the gaming community or charge for the SDK or any other tinfoil scenarios people are assuming Facebook will pursue.
The truth is, the Sony announcement was a significant shot across the bow at Oculus. From all accounts their headset is already on par with the rift, plus they have a massive built in user base. Oculus may have had the support and interest of a subset of hardcore gamers behind them but that's small potatoes compared to the console market. With Facebook, they may actually have a fighting chance to retain their position as the leader in VR.
On the upside, however, everyone is canceling their DK2 orders which should allow me to get mine earlier :)
> The reaction by the community is completely irrational.
I think you are missing the big picture because you are not realizing the potential of this technology (Mark probably has, that's why he bought Oculus). VR will absolutely change the way we interact with each other in the future. This is not about gaming at all. This is about people wearing VR headsets (which will probably look like sunglasses) in everyday situations (augmented reality). Oculus is the leader in this area and Facebook is in control now. For many people a possible utopia has turned into a dystopia over night.
You have to keep in mind how many of us saw this as a hacking and as a business opportunity to develop exactly what Facebook is now going to develop: VRUI platforms. That will still be possible, but this announcement means that there's a software player attached to the hardware, and they will try to maintain their platform position with it.
On top of that, a lot of us are actively hoping to see the death of Facebook- I personally am, because I think they've acted unethically. (It's the job of IT professionals to protect users, not mine them.) Tying Facebook to the Rift means that the Rift is, well, part of that thing that I/we want to die.
> It makes absolutely zero sense for Facebook to meddle with Oculus
> With Facebook, they may actually have a fighting chance to retain their position as the leader in VR.
How does Oculus get access to Facebook's builtin userbase, as Sony has, without having Facebook's software get involved? The only optimistic answer is that the purchase is an financial boost, but it didn't seem necessary. The Rift's strength was that it was purely PC - untied to any platform. They alienated the developer market they were cultivating by doing this.
I've thought through the financial angles, I've thought through the "Sony and Valve were gonna beat them" angles, and I still think they're weak arguments. I think this is about Oculus building the software platform, and Facebook taking part in that.
My understanding is that the vision that Oculus has for their consumer product is x2 1080p screens (at a minimum, ideally x2 4K screens or even higher, if the supply chain was ready), one for each eye, to eliminate the screen door effect and deliver true immersion. Supporting x2 1080p screens (or above) requires serious graphical horsepower as you can imagine.
The PS4 has nowhere near that ability for graphics. I saw a comment saying the "PS4 is a mid level gaming PC", so do you think that the PS4 will deliver the jaw dropping visuals and immersion required to blow away consumers on their first VR experience and change gaming forever?
I suspect the PS4 might only be capable of supporting x2 720p screens (based on what I've read about the PS4), which would deliver a hugely compromised vision of what VR could be compared to what Oculus' original vision was/is. It would be even more disappointing if Sony had a compromised product that made loads of money, as this would send the signal to VR companies that it's ok to not shoot for the stars with a consumer VR product.
Oculus stated all along that they wont release consumer product until its ready, which was credible as they had to answer to no one (except if you count the hopes and dreams of backers that had no equity, and VCs that bought into their vision.) Now there is huge uncertainty with this bolt from the blue acquisition.
People here defending Facebook are comparing the acquisition to Instagram and WhatsApp. Those companies may have a lot of users, but they don't fundamentally promise to make a massive leap forward into a virtual universe, a kind of a leap forward not seen since Carmack implemented 3D graphics in the original Doom. No nerds here give a fuck about photo sharing with filters, or SMS over the web. Those aren't exciting leaps, they can be cloned easily, there aren't the same technical challenges to be overcome. Facebook is welcome to buy those types of companies. VR, however, with the team Oculus has, had the potential to do something great, with zero compromises or outside pressure. Now all that has been thrown into doubt.
I'd sum up the reaction here as:
- those who are annoyed that Oculus' independence is compromised by a company with long history of privacy abuse
- disbelief that those who chipped in good faith now have contributed to another way for Facebook to mine users for data and stick ads in front of their eyeballs
- For those who chipped in on kickstarter: they added value to a company with a long history of privacy abuse instead of ultimately funding what they thought would be an independent entity with amazing technical talent and vision
If Oculus felt that threatened by Sony, I'm sure they could raise tens of millions on very favourable terms, in very short space of time. I'm so disappointed that there is a risk of the original vision being compromised, I hope Valve or someone else picks up where Oculus left off if there is indeed a comprise because of this acquisition.
It seems unlikely that Facebook will mess Oculus in any significant way, and I agree a lot of the sky is falling reactions are irrational. However, a lot of people just don't trust Facebook, for rational reasons. It comes down to this: if one doesn't trust Facebook, why would one want to give their money to Facebook?
Your post is completely irrational. What sense does it make to be a facebook apologist? Why would you defend a company? Companies aren't people, being nice to one doesn't make it like you and treat you well.
Facebook is a company. Facebook is also evil. The decision to immediately drop OculusVR like a hot potato the moment they got acquired by Facebook is a completely sound one.
And facebook always makes good decisions right? Look at how they interpreted mobile. It's a device which is multi-faceted, multi-purpose... and they turn it into a bloody facebook window (facebook home) - getting in the way of how most people actually interact with their phone.
If you think they are going to let Oculus develop freely without their completely self-absorbed facebook centric mindset, you're kidding yourself.
The issue is that Facebook has control over this technology and gives it more monopoly power. To decentralize the market Oculus shouldn't have sold out. Facebook is an unethical company that data mines its users. Facebook's treatment of its bought companies is irrelavent since it has ownership/control. You are the one without logic.
The Morpheus makes one wonder if Sony attempted to talk Oculus into making the device platform-exclusive and failed. This is all very Sony/Nintendo-ey circa PSX/N64...
This is a weird situation. Sometimes when a product goes ultra-mainstream as FB is likely trying to do with Oculus Rift, it doesn't matter a huge amount if it losses its first supporters.
But Oculus Rift is losing the core of the gaming community here. And that is its target demographic for both early and medium term adoption, it isn't a small fringe community. (It isn't just early supporters who are mad, it is the core of the gaming community that was excited about this.) If I was in management at FB or Oculus Rift and cared about its future, I would be freaking out and trying to figure out damage control strategy (which I haven't yet seem arise, although maybe I have missed it so far.)
This really open up the space for competitors to take a large bit out of what seemed to be a clear leader.
I don't see why gamers would care who owns it. I'm interested in the Oculus Rift and I don't care if it was McDonald's that made it, if it works good they'll get my business.
The real question is what this will do to other Kickstarter campaigns. It highlights that you are not buying a share in a company. The savvy early adopters should realize as soon as outside money comes in, the company is headed to the highest value exit no matter what.
There are many well funded companies taking advantage of the Kicstarter platform to run their product/market fit experiments and generating media buzz while they are it. If you think about it it's actually really smart on their part, but shady nonetheless. Reading some of their backer reactions on Kickstarter and all across the interwebz one gets the feeling that this will most certainly have a negative impact in the short term, but hopefully these same backers will start doing more research into the people unscrupulously soliciting money when in fact they don't really need it at all.
The message that you should be (at least somewhat) skeptical of the motivations of the project and not really expect to get anything is probably healthy for Kickstarter.
People that ask themselves "Am I comfortable with this money being used in an unexpected way?" before they pay a Kickstarter are less likely to be upset when the money is used in an unexpected way (or when they don't get anything or whatever).
As a reasonably active member of the subreddit, which is (or was, it seems) reasonably rational and mature, there seems to be quite a lot of anti-fanboy sort of behavior going on here.
Amongst the mountains of screams and cries, this is a good place to get Palmer's point of view on it.
I got a DK1 through kickstarter, and I had my DK2 on order within minutes of the reddit pre-announcement. So I'm a big fan. As many have said, I'm waiting to see if the likes of Carmack stick around -- though from his Twitter feed it seems he's fairly comfortable with the deal. I'm reasonably excited about all this, to be honest.
You got my respect before I met you. You kept it when I met you. I understand that this happened because people with investments in the company saw big sacks of dollar bills. I understand you're probably under a big NDA and stuck in golden handcuffs, and that this might be a frustrating situation.
I just hope you got your fair share. VR will live on. Thank you for being part of making it finally happen.
I don't get it... how else do they think a consumer version would ever be manufactured? I imagine manufacturing thousands of consumer grade custom tiny high definition displays would approach a billion dollars alone. What did these guys expect, another kickstarter? If anything, Facebook has just created the best chance yet that their dreams will come true.
[+] [-] marknutter|12 years ago|reply
It makes absolutely zero sense for Facebook to meddle with Oculus by pursuing any of the ridiculous paths people are worried about like trying to integrate the Rift into the Facebook platform or turn away from the gaming community or charge for the SDK or any other tinfoil scenarios people are assuming Facebook will pursue.
The truth is, the Sony announcement was a significant shot across the bow at Oculus. From all accounts their headset is already on par with the rift, plus they have a massive built in user base. Oculus may have had the support and interest of a subset of hardcore gamers behind them but that's small potatoes compared to the console market. With Facebook, they may actually have a fighting chance to retain their position as the leader in VR.
On the upside, however, everyone is canceling their DK2 orders which should allow me to get mine earlier :)
[+] [-] Riesling|12 years ago|reply
I think you are missing the big picture because you are not realizing the potential of this technology (Mark probably has, that's why he bought Oculus). VR will absolutely change the way we interact with each other in the future. This is not about gaming at all. This is about people wearing VR headsets (which will probably look like sunglasses) in everyday situations (augmented reality). Oculus is the leader in this area and Facebook is in control now. For many people a possible utopia has turned into a dystopia over night.
[+] [-] pfraze|12 years ago|reply
On top of that, a lot of us are actively hoping to see the death of Facebook- I personally am, because I think they've acted unethically. (It's the job of IT professionals to protect users, not mine them.) Tying Facebook to the Rift means that the Rift is, well, part of that thing that I/we want to die.
> It makes absolutely zero sense for Facebook to meddle with Oculus
> With Facebook, they may actually have a fighting chance to retain their position as the leader in VR.
How does Oculus get access to Facebook's builtin userbase, as Sony has, without having Facebook's software get involved? The only optimistic answer is that the purchase is an financial boost, but it didn't seem necessary. The Rift's strength was that it was purely PC - untied to any platform. They alienated the developer market they were cultivating by doing this.
I've thought through the financial angles, I've thought through the "Sony and Valve were gonna beat them" angles, and I still think they're weak arguments. I think this is about Oculus building the software platform, and Facebook taking part in that.
[+] [-] patrickk|12 years ago|reply
From what I've read this isn't true at all.
Have a read of this excellent Valve slide deck on VR, which touches on the technical challenges: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/valve/2013/MAbrashGDC2013...
My understanding is that the vision that Oculus has for their consumer product is x2 1080p screens (at a minimum, ideally x2 4K screens or even higher, if the supply chain was ready), one for each eye, to eliminate the screen door effect and deliver true immersion. Supporting x2 1080p screens (or above) requires serious graphical horsepower as you can imagine.
The PS4 has nowhere near that ability for graphics. I saw a comment saying the "PS4 is a mid level gaming PC", so do you think that the PS4 will deliver the jaw dropping visuals and immersion required to blow away consumers on their first VR experience and change gaming forever?
I suspect the PS4 might only be capable of supporting x2 720p screens (based on what I've read about the PS4), which would deliver a hugely compromised vision of what VR could be compared to what Oculus' original vision was/is. It would be even more disappointing if Sony had a compromised product that made loads of money, as this would send the signal to VR companies that it's ok to not shoot for the stars with a consumer VR product.
Oculus stated all along that they wont release consumer product until its ready, which was credible as they had to answer to no one (except if you count the hopes and dreams of backers that had no equity, and VCs that bought into their vision.) Now there is huge uncertainty with this bolt from the blue acquisition.
People here defending Facebook are comparing the acquisition to Instagram and WhatsApp. Those companies may have a lot of users, but they don't fundamentally promise to make a massive leap forward into a virtual universe, a kind of a leap forward not seen since Carmack implemented 3D graphics in the original Doom. No nerds here give a fuck about photo sharing with filters, or SMS over the web. Those aren't exciting leaps, they can be cloned easily, there aren't the same technical challenges to be overcome. Facebook is welcome to buy those types of companies. VR, however, with the team Oculus has, had the potential to do something great, with zero compromises or outside pressure. Now all that has been thrown into doubt.
I'd sum up the reaction here as:
- those who are annoyed that Oculus' independence is compromised by a company with long history of privacy abuse
- disbelief that those who chipped in good faith now have contributed to another way for Facebook to mine users for data and stick ads in front of their eyeballs
- For those who chipped in on kickstarter: they added value to a company with a long history of privacy abuse instead of ultimately funding what they thought would be an independent entity with amazing technical talent and vision
If Oculus felt that threatened by Sony, I'm sure they could raise tens of millions on very favourable terms, in very short space of time. I'm so disappointed that there is a risk of the original vision being compromised, I hope Valve or someone else picks up where Oculus left off if there is indeed a comprise because of this acquisition.
[+] [-] sbarron|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anon4|12 years ago|reply
Facebook is a company. Facebook is also evil. The decision to immediately drop OculusVR like a hot potato the moment they got acquired by Facebook is a completely sound one.
[+] [-] Argorak|12 years ago|reply
Also, Facebook gaming is seen as a huge danger for many "core gamers", so it isn't just anyone buying their stuff.
[+] [-] grovulent|12 years ago|reply
If you think they are going to let Oculus develop freely without their completely self-absorbed facebook centric mindset, you're kidding yourself.
[+] [-] Executor|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dclowd9901|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bhouston|12 years ago|reply
But Oculus Rift is losing the core of the gaming community here. And that is its target demographic for both early and medium term adoption, it isn't a small fringe community. (It isn't just early supporters who are mad, it is the core of the gaming community that was excited about this.) If I was in management at FB or Oculus Rift and cared about its future, I would be freaking out and trying to figure out damage control strategy (which I haven't yet seem arise, although maybe I have missed it so far.)
This really open up the space for competitors to take a large bit out of what seemed to be a clear leader.
[+] [-] stormcrowsx|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mathattack|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ingenieros|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxerickson|12 years ago|reply
People that ask themselves "Am I comfortable with this money being used in an unexpected way?" before they pay a Kickstarter are less likely to be upset when the money is used in an unexpected way (or when they don't get anything or whatever).
[+] [-] stickydink|12 years ago|reply
Amongst the mountains of screams and cries, this is a good place to get Palmer's point of view on it.
http://www.reddit.com/user/palmerluckey
I got a DK1 through kickstarter, and I had my DK2 on order within minutes of the reddit pre-announcement. So I'm a big fan. As many have said, I'm waiting to see if the likes of Carmack stick around -- though from his Twitter feed it seems he's fairly comfortable with the deal. I'm reasonably excited about all this, to be honest.
[+] [-] not_paul_graham|12 years ago|reply
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469115
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7470097
[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469237
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nilkn|12 years ago|reply
You got my respect before I met you. You kept it when I met you. I understand that this happened because people with investments in the company saw big sacks of dollar bills. I understand you're probably under a big NDA and stuck in golden handcuffs, and that this might be a frustrating situation.
I just hope you got your fair share. VR will live on. Thank you for being part of making it finally happen.
I really wish this hadn't happened.
[+] [-] thenmar|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pfraze|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fooqux|12 years ago|reply
1) Loans 2) Personal cash (last I know, Carmack was loaded) 3) Investment (Kickstarter / preorders being one form of this)
Or some combination thereof. Surely you didn't think every single new device comes from a extremely large corporation.