I once did a non-simultaneous home exchange with an elderly couple from Rome (I live in Vancouver).
When they arrived, they asked where the "Piazzas" are here in Vancouver - to sit and enjoy a communal public space.
I was at a loss - there really aren't any public spaces designed for just watching the world go by here other than the beach, which closes at 10p - cops zoom up and down on 4x4s kicking people off the beach.
The woman said something that stayed with me and, I think, is true: "You know, in Europe homes are small, there are many public spaces, and life is lived in the streets. In North America houses are bigger, people have more land and entertain at home, and life is lived at home."
Not only that, I live in a medium sized town(by europen stadars) of 400,000. When you go walking around you develope relationships with the people that lives around you, also you meet and start talking with random people you know but don't meet usually. As we are a social species this is really missed when is lacking. It's also surprisngly good for all kinds of networking effects, not only business but personal needs like doctors, home contractors, schools, you name it. Not only directly (you meet the doctor friend of your father), but also indirectly, getting recomendations.
Even in europe this has diminished an order of magnitude, my grandmother that used to live in Madrid before the spanish civil war, tell us (she is still alive at 98) that they used to know not only all their building, or their street, but their city neighborhood. Who was the son of who, jobs, personal problems, there was a great deal of comunal help.
I've only found this in contemporary Habana, everybody seems to know everybody when you walk at the city center.
That's why we use social apps, and elderly people sees that goship programs (in Spain is an epidemia). We need social contact, knowing what's happening around us, and the modern live style had made this need a business oportunity for Facebook et Al.
My wife is a doctor and a lot of people that comes to see her has the need to "confess" all their live. I guess a lot of psicological problems at developed countries are due to this lack of social human contact(not only family and close friends).
That's really interesting to hear (I live in Vancouver too). I think it maybe also speaks to our North American culture of drive to work, stay at work, drive to home, stay at home... though I've heard that Vancouver is quite decent (compared to other North American cities) for having a downtown with actual people living there... similar to NY.
Sidewalk cafes in Europe thrive off foot traffic to and mass transit and bicycles.
All those cars require all the parking lots. Parking decks are too expensive for every little cafe to build. So the businesses group to pool the parking cost. A strip mall.
This is one of the critical things that put the lie to the claim that parking spaces = customers. Cars get rid of customers, so you have to put in parking spaces just to get some of them back.
No kidding. Check out this blog to see what difference street width makes. The author narrowed LA's streets using Photoshop and it instantly feels more livable: http://narrowstreetsla.blogspot.de
It's still cars; it's just that the problem was never the automotive engine. Old World cities were patterned after layouts that were based around people walking. Then we started riding horses, pulling around carriages, etc. By the time you get to the Western frontier, the vast open space inclines you to spread out your buildings.
I live in Boulder, CO and they definitely get it right. It really depends on where you are. The same goes for Europe.
We are all very critical of our own country. Visiting a country is not the same as living in that country. You don't necessary see it the same way and the grass is always greener on the other side (especially in Ireland :) ). So I have the impression that the author is overreacting a little.
I do not think they are overreacting. There is just nothing in the U.S. which is akin to Parisian "side-walk cafes." I have been longing for these here, and I would drive a good 15 minutes if I had to. Well at least there aren't any I know of in Orange County, Phoenix, Atlanta, or Hawaii which are about the only places where I lived here.
You are correct about Boulder, however, Europe gets it right more often.. I can name many more cities in Europe that get it right. Rennes, Paris, Marseilles, Aix-en-Provence, Barcelona, Den Hague, Amsterdam, Prague, Rome, Florence... just off the top of my head.
I feel the same way. It definitely varies from neighborhood to neighborhood, and even street to street. I think he was trying to hit a resonating sentiment but experiences are so varied I think he failed.
because in most US cities the sidewalks are too narrow, the streets are too wide, traffic too loud, and service not up to par. but this is a mundane argument; of course it is. that's what we're trying to change; that's the point.
it depends highly on the city (and even neighborhood within city), but we should not fault anyone for trying and we should patronize the establishments that offer sidewalk service as often as we can, even if it's sub-optimal.
If french cafés get things right, I doubt service is a problem. Many cafés barely have service, if you want to be served you go to the counter and get whatever you need, then you go back to the terrace.
If you optimize for cars, you get cities optimized for cars.
Funny that it was a American (Christopher Alexander)who write the most concise recipe for getting this right in "A Pattern Language." Pattern 88, Street Café.
Hey, we get it right at a couple places in Seattle, but the fact is here the weather isn't right for it. But in general I feel the sidewalks are too narrow, largely because the streets are too wide (and the wide streets lead to another problem, sitting next to traffic).
Design walkable cities, and sidewalk cafes will appear as if by magic. Or rather, the same way they have appeared in thousands of cities and walkable neighborhoods worldwide throughout history!
Where would you recommend in Seattle? I see a few places here and there but they are so small that I can't depend on being able to get a spot when the weather is nice.
In Britain, come summertime, most people would prefer to be sat at a trestle table in the beer garden of a pub rather than being awkwardly perched on some pavement outside some cafe. Cafe culture is not for us - unless it comes with a greasy spoon... The streets are too noisy, the council charges cafes for those chairs and the weather does not help.
I haven't really thought about it before, however, I don't think that the U.S. has a lot of what we Brits would recognise as a quality beer garden, whether it be attached to a pub/cafe/restaurant/mall matters not, neither does the location (in the UK the best beer gardens are in villages).
Is this true or am I imagining things?
Beyond reasons of urban sprawl and car culture, are there any reasons for this, e.g. prohibition back in the 20's?
Seattle has started experimenting with "Parklets[1]" recently. The city gives up the right of way, and the businesses that sponsor them pay to build them, but can't restrict it or turn it into an extension of their space. It's an interesting notion.
Boston shares a lot of characteristics with European cities: relatively narrow streets, decent public transit, lots of foot traffic, so that may have something to do with it.
Murphy Avenue in Sunnyvale gets it right on some weekends, when it is closed for traffic. It is primarily a pedestrian street and only a few people (who deserve contempt IMHO) ever drive or try parking there.
By the way, anyone knows what prevents from closing Murphy for cars? I'm seeing attempts to do that http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_18390412 but no progress so far. It looks like some business (cafe) owners oppose that. Should we try obtaining their names and advice them not to oppose closing Murphy for cars?
The area around Mint Plaza in SF, specifically at and around Blue Bottle, does this well. This was achieved by closing off that street to vehicle traffic, and allowing only people on foot and bikes in that area.
Paris (55,000/sq mi) is twice as dense as New York City (27,778.7/sq mi) (numbers from Wikipedia). It's one of the densest cities in the Western world.
Edit: though I suppose if you consider Manhattan to be "New York" then that is more dense (70,825.6/sq mi) than Paris.
I'm always happy to take people out for a drink here in Padova, where there are a number of great places downtown. I would really, really miss the city center here were I ever to move back to the US.
I'll add something to this: you can serve alcohol in sidewalk cafe's here in Italy, something I did not say mentioned in the article. Alcohol usually has very good margins, which provides part of the economics for everything.
Cafe du Soleil & Bean There in SF's Lower Haight get it right. Steiner is a good street for a sidewalk cafe, trees, wide sidewalk and victorian houses.
I know you're being facetious, but it's not an unreasonable point. All attempts to create a pavement cafe culture here in the UK have failed, 24-hr licensing to serve alcohol turned out to be a mistake. The British simply don't drink in the same way as the Italians. We like pubs, not bars or cafes-that-serve-wine.
You might as well write an article wondering why you can't bring an American "spring break" drinking culture to France...
[+] [-] kareemm|12 years ago|reply
When they arrived, they asked where the "Piazzas" are here in Vancouver - to sit and enjoy a communal public space.
I was at a loss - there really aren't any public spaces designed for just watching the world go by here other than the beach, which closes at 10p - cops zoom up and down on 4x4s kicking people off the beach.
The woman said something that stayed with me and, I think, is true: "You know, in Europe homes are small, there are many public spaces, and life is lived in the streets. In North America houses are bigger, people have more land and entertain at home, and life is lived at home."
[+] [-] omegant|12 years ago|reply
Even in europe this has diminished an order of magnitude, my grandmother that used to live in Madrid before the spanish civil war, tell us (she is still alive at 98) that they used to know not only all their building, or their street, but their city neighborhood. Who was the son of who, jobs, personal problems, there was a great deal of comunal help.
I've only found this in contemporary Habana, everybody seems to know everybody when you walk at the city center.
That's why we use social apps, and elderly people sees that goship programs (in Spain is an epidemia). We need social contact, knowing what's happening around us, and the modern live style had made this need a business oportunity for Facebook et Al.
My wife is a doctor and a lot of people that comes to see her has the need to "confess" all their live. I guess a lot of psicological problems at developed countries are due to this lack of social human contact(not only family and close friends).
[+] [-] robotresearcher|12 years ago|reply
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.282485,-123.121549,3a,75y,69....
[+] [-] mattm|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elnate|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cclogg|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] afterburner|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Adam503|12 years ago|reply
Sidewalk cafes in Europe thrive off foot traffic to and mass transit and bicycles.
All those cars require all the parking lots. Parking decks are too expensive for every little cafe to build. So the businesses group to pool the parking cost. A strip mall.
You want a cafes scene? Get rid of most the cars.
[+] [-] saraid216|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrismealy|12 years ago|reply
http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2013/112413.html
[+] [-] jonasvp|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saraid216|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yawz|12 years ago|reply
We are all very critical of our own country. Visiting a country is not the same as living in that country. You don't necessary see it the same way and the grass is always greener on the other side (especially in Ireland :) ). So I have the impression that the author is overreacting a little.
[+] [-] rokhayakebe|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fortuitous|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] etler|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beachstartup|12 years ago|reply
it depends highly on the city (and even neighborhood within city), but we should not fault anyone for trying and we should patronize the establishments that offer sidewalk service as often as we can, even if it's sub-optimal.
[+] [-] masklinn|12 years ago|reply
If french cafés get things right, I doubt service is a problem. Many cafés barely have service, if you want to be served you go to the counter and get whatever you need, then you go back to the terrace.
[+] [-] raldi|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] recurrie|12 years ago|reply
Funny that it was a American (Christopher Alexander)who write the most concise recipe for getting this right in "A Pattern Language." Pattern 88, Street Café.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language
http://www.jacana.plus.com/pattern/P88.htm
[+] [-] devindotcom|12 years ago|reply
Design walkable cities, and sidewalk cafes will appear as if by magic. Or rather, the same way they have appeared in thousands of cities and walkable neighborhoods worldwide throughout history!
[+] [-] farnsworth|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GuiA|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _ciz9|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wutbrodo|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Theodores|12 years ago|reply
I haven't really thought about it before, however, I don't think that the U.S. has a lot of what we Brits would recognise as a quality beer garden, whether it be attached to a pub/cafe/restaurant/mall matters not, neither does the location (in the UK the best beer gardens are in villages).
Is this true or am I imagining things?
Beyond reasons of urban sprawl and car culture, are there any reasons for this, e.g. prohibition back in the 20's?
[+] [-] hanley|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moonka|12 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2013/06/capitol-hills-firs...
[+] [-] jonas21|12 years ago|reply
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.349106,-71.084347,3a,75y,338...
Boston shares a lot of characteristics with European cities: relatively narrow streets, decent public transit, lots of foot traffic, so that may have something to do with it.
[+] [-] dchichkov|12 years ago|reply
By the way, anyone knows what prevents from closing Murphy for cars? I'm seeing attempts to do that http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_18390412 but no progress so far. It looks like some business (cafe) owners oppose that. Should we try obtaining their names and advice them not to oppose closing Murphy for cars?
[+] [-] traughber|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AznHisoka|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelGG|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bchallenor|12 years ago|reply
Edit: though I suppose if you consider Manhattan to be "New York" then that is more dense (70,825.6/sq mi) than Paris.
[+] [-] sssilver|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] traughber|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peloton|12 years ago|reply
I read it years ago so I'm less familiar with how it's viewed today (with the rise of virtual third places).
[+] [-] davidw|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hnriot|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ejain|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mladenkovacevic|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gaius|12 years ago|reply
You might as well write an article wondering why you can't bring an American "spring break" drinking culture to France...