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Telegram team left Russia and looking for a country to work from

96 points| andreyvit | 12 years ago |facebook.com | reply

87 comments

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[+] andreyvit|12 years ago|reply
Citation from a Facebook post by Pavel Durov (founder of vk.com and Telegram), for those who don't want to open Facebook:

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As you probably know, I am out of Russia. Me and my team of 12 engineers have a temporary HQ in Central Europe, and we are now looking for a permanent base to work from. We are choosing a new home, a country that will allow us to develop our projects with privacy and freedom of speech in mind.

Our team includes 6 ACM champions and 6 winners of other programming contests. These guys made it possible for Telegram Messenger to gather 40 million registered users worldwide just within 8 months after its launch. Several members of this team, including my brother, were crucial in making VKontakte what it is today — the only social network that defeated Facebook in an open local market. We are now going to build our next project, a mobile social network.

What country or city do you think would suit us best? Please feel free to comment below. To give you an idea of our preferences, we dislike bureaucracy, police states, big governments, wars, socialism and excessive regulation. We like freedoms, strong judicial systems, small governments, free markets, neutrality and civil rights.

P.S. If you happen to represent a government that meets our criteria, you are welcome to share ideas with me at [email protected].

[+] SneakerXZ|12 years ago|reply
I would suggest you Czech Republic. Russians are accepted here as minority and a lot of them is living here.

Also our language is Slavic so very similar to Russian. We have democracy and I am not aware of any censorship. We are atheists and we are not homophobic. Also we have very good infrastructure and it is cheap to live here. And Prague is a beautiful city.

[+] zura|12 years ago|reply
Georgia (eastern Europe) seems like a good fit for those requirements. No bureaucracy, low taxes, cheaper than most central/western European places. One of the most capitalist states in Europe :)
[+] Bootvis|12 years ago|reply
Switzerland, what else?

Words unfortunately spoken by someone from the Netherlands.

[+] camus2|12 years ago|reply
Definetly not France ! I'd suggest Germany(Berlin) or Spain. Great places to leave and cheap.
[+] return0|12 years ago|reply
Cyprus, that's where russians go.
[+] c1sc0|12 years ago|reply
Iceland?
[+] cyphunk|12 years ago|reply
I'd recommend Berlin or Israel. The latter I'm very surprised would make my list but only under these special circumstances.

ISRAEL: It is by far the most disgustingly capitalistic country I've ever lived in but the VK crew may find this to their benefit. They will also find a nice and strong Russian community in Israel and a large pool of talent to pull from. What they will not find there is any sort of non-commercial activity (non-edu research, hacker spaces, fringe technical movement of any type) nor will they find a government interested in free speech. And they will have to turn a blind eye to all the shit their tax dollars will be put toward.

BERLIN: If you want free speech then definitely go to Berlin. Germanys conservative government comes off more liberal than the US's most liberal government. You'll find strong party factions with ties to post-NSA thinkers and movers. The place is beaming with intellectual discourse. It is also a hacker mecca so there are plenty of fringe technological movements. What you will not find is a large tech community (though it is growing fast) nor a very money driven culture.

Go to Berlin if you want to make impact on the world. Go to Israel if you want to make money.

[+] HenryMc|12 years ago|reply
> ISRAEL

I don't think it would meet the no wars criteria (probably the police state one too).

[+] BugBrother|12 years ago|reply
I've never been to Israel, but from what I've read:

- If you get three Israelis in a room, on most subjects you'll find four very different viewpoints.

- The media are free and have a large range. From what I've seen in English, much more allowed than the almost censored Swedish media.

(But sure, it is a country in a permanent low intensive war -- and the only country in the world with a nuclear weapon threat over their heads. That will influence the general attitude quite a lot.)

[+] sergiotapia|12 years ago|reply
Come down to Santa Cruz, Bolivia!

Minimal bureaucracy, you can register your company in an afternoon. http://www.fundempresa.org.bo/

You can buy a huge location for peanuts. Or even rent a huge mansion for $2000/month. I'm talking about a place that could house a team of 50 easily.

Weather is really beautiful, 90% of the time it's warm and sunny. The winter months are May/June/July. With only 1 week or two of real 'winter' weather.

Lots of untapped talent. The best developers here work for outsourcing companies making about $1000-$1200/month. If you were to offer $2000 you can easily poach the best.

Cost of living is minimal. $600/month and you're set.

[+] gerbal|12 years ago|reply
Language barrier may be a problem, but offering premium wages might find a surprising number of russian and english speakers.
[+] qwerta|12 years ago|reply
For small innovating business-friendly countries I would suggest Estonia or Slovakia. If you like sea and nice weather Slovenia, Croatia or Monte Negro.
[+] tomp|12 years ago|reply
Slovenia (where I'm from): great country, a lot of nature (mountains, sea), near important EU cities (Munich, Vienna, Milano, Venice, Rome), good awesome weather, people know English, not too expensive.

But! Bureaucracy is horrible, especially for non-EU foreigners trying to work here. My past company spent a lot of time bringing a (highly qualified, well-paid) Russian to work for a Slovenian! company. I think they resolved the case by using personal connections to government employees (the normal way of resolving issues in Slovenia). Also, taxes are rather high (top marginal tax is only 42%, but it kicks in way sooner than e.g. in UK).

[+] rplnt|12 years ago|reply
Slovakia is nice nature-wise, but I would probably chose Czech Republic over it. Slovakia is pretty religious, meaning they don't like homosexuals and drugs (harsh possible sentences for users). Corruption is pretty high as well, though I doubt it's much worse from any of the mentioned countries.
[+] cliveowen|12 years ago|reply
"We are now going to build our next project, a mobile social network."

The chances of becoming a serious Whatsapp competitor have just vanished. Focus is everything, spread too thin and you're done for good.

[+] danabramov|12 years ago|reply
From what I heard, Telegram was intended as a testbed and the team didn't quite expect the exposure it received.

This is going to be a separate product from Telegram. Durov knows what focus is, he kept VK very focused while he was around.

[+] danabramov|12 years ago|reply
Narnia looks like a safe choice.
[+] sdfjkl|12 years ago|reply
It suffered from recent political instability.
[+] logicchains|12 years ago|reply
Singapore. In response to the preferences they expressed on Facebook, it's got little bureaucracy, a small government, no wars, minimal regulation, a strong judicial system, a relatively free market (ranked no. 2 in the world for economic freedom).

Not such a free place if you want to displace the government or use recreational drugs, however, but business-wise it's pretty open.

[+] mynegation|12 years ago|reply
Canada, Toronto specifically, but other cities are great too.

Canadian government is decidedly anti-Putin. Canada has both start-up visa program[0] and business immigration program[1]. Lots of talent. As for bureaucracy, police state, regulation, and big governments - really depends on whom you ask and everything is relative so I'll leave it at that.

[0] http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/ind...

[1] http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/

[+] kaivi|12 years ago|reply
Longyearbyen, Norway.

They even have high-speed optic fiber on the island. And here is a nice property for sale, should be great for a small team of 2-4: http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/homes/object?finnkode=448... Plane tickets to the mainland are dirt cheap.

Anyway, that is my dream – to get a comfortable, cozy place far away from the continent. Whatever happens out in the world, will likely not distract me from work.

Edit: >They have a team of 12

Well then, one could always buy land and build on it. Also on Svalbard, taxes are pretty low.

[+] funkyy|12 years ago|reply
If you are in central europe you can pick Poland (northern Gdansk or western Poznan - Gdansk is web hub of country, Poznan is business and web hub).

Poland is not really friends with Russian government lately so they will protect you. Also - not like small countries - they are large enough to stand strong on any requests from big countries about data sharing etc. Some Polish people speaks russian and most young speak english so you would be covered. Cultural differences are not huge so it would be easy to blend in for you.

Another guess - Ireland. Country in Nato but in reality its neutral. There is only 12.5% corporate tax, social is pretty good and everybody speaks english. Just pick Dublin or Cork - those are more "ahead" cities. They have good web connection and there are some activities in them. They are also safe. Country is extremely friendly to web startups (good network - lots of free help). Prices are really high though.

Canada - it might be hard for visa (unless you state your reason of data protection - Canada is another country having issues with Putins politics). Canada protects freedom to speech and they can protect your data from russia easily. Energy independent (nobody can bully them) is pretty expensive though. Pick Vancouver or Toronto. If you are hardcore - choose Calgary - harsh weather but 0% state tax and business oriented community.

There are also places like New Zealand (might be to remote), Vietnam or Phillipines (to small to really give good protection), Japan (expensive and cultural differences might be a problem). Good luck!

[+] junto|12 years ago|reply
Berlin would be a smart bet. Lots of engineers and other tech companies.

A history of privacy violations has resulted in a favourable right to privacy enshrined in law. It isn't watertight, but it is better than many others.

[+] socialist_coder|12 years ago|reply
Ahh, the search for a country that doesn't exist. Good luck!
[+] ziggamon|12 years ago|reply
How poetic of him to post this on Facebook of all places!
[+] chunkiestbacon|12 years ago|reply
I just love the answer of a russian which posted an image of the international space station. Might be worth a try.

Switzerland is a good location, regarding laws and no corruption. I wonder however how they are going to get work permits anywhere in westeurope tough, when they are all russians. I guess investing a lot of money might fix that problem.

[+] porkbird|12 years ago|reply
I'd also suggest Berlin, but aren't they in berlin already? If so, I'd be interested to know why are they looking for yet another country? Sure, you need to know some German to get around, but otherwise berlin has a pretty good climate for startups (and the cost of living is not as high as in Switzerland or Iceland).
[+] return0|12 years ago|reply
I realize we need a new country, a new "Wild West". How is that seasteading country doing?
[+] computer|12 years ago|reply
A bunch of countries in Africa probably fit much of your wanted model. Not everything there is hunger, murder and poverty.
[+] rebolek|12 years ago|reply
I would suggest some South American country. Military coups seems like a thing of past and they're pissed at US for various reasons (like spying on them and supporting all those military coups in first place). Something like Uruguay?
[+] kjs3|12 years ago|reply
Costa Rica? My brothers company has had a software development subsidiary there for more than a decade. Upside: Educated, motivated workforce, reasonable business climate, short plane ride to US and rest of S. America. Great weather and outdoors. Downside: it's not yet quite up to EU or US infrastructure standards, which could cause issues (all of which can be mitigated). Cost of living is not a cheap as it once was. Traffic in San Juan sucks. There will definitely be some cultural issues to be aware of between Slavs and S. Americans. If he's really rabidly anti-socialist, they have universal health care.
[+] HenryMc|12 years ago|reply
Australia is pretty good. The government could be a little smaller, but it's not too bad. Melbourne and Sydney have a pretty good tech scene.

The weather is different from Russia.