Nissan's ‘Self-Cleaning’ Car Prototype [video]

[wuschel]

(Disclaimer: I had a fair share of sucker punches with self-cleaning surfaces..)

Approaches towards self cleaning surfaces have been seen in the lab since a long, long time: They range from photocatalytic concepts (e.g. TiO2/SiO2/polymer hybrid coatings for house paint) to surfaces with a mixture of -OH/-CH3/-F (hydro-/lipophilic and mostly repellent) end groups that can be produces by plasma treatment, and many more.

There is a good reason that very little of these applications have ended up in mass production: The stability and durability of the film surfaces. Once you get a surface structure damage on, say, your "lotus effect functionalized" bathtub, house wall, car body, dirt starts to accumulate on this spot. The german car industry had quite a bunch of projects with car windows without front wipers (minimum speed 20 km/h to be effective), there have been a lot of projects for self cleaning house paints using the sun - but so far there is no effective product on the market. But of course there are a lot of patents..

I have no idea if Nissan found a way to make a cost effective, self cleansing film coating that can stand the test of gravel, acid, and time. If they succeeded, then it is a true accomplishment. But for the reasons listed above, I somehow doubt that.

[dgreensp]

Yes, and this is Ultra Ever Dry, so not some secret new Nissan technology.

I got excited about ultrahydrophobic sprays for a day or two, but the indications for use are a reality check. Avoid prolonged exposure to UV light (i.e. the outdoors). Avoid prolonged exposure to water(! e.g. can't coat the toilet bowl). Avoid scratching (don't touch it). And so on.

[iandanforth]

What if this were an option at a carwash? I use full synthetic oil because it allows me to increase time between changes. I would pay more for a car wash that lasted longer as well. If the problem is a need to re-apply, can you get a coating that could be sprayed across the entire car without a need to mask out bits like in the video?

[grandalf]

It would seem like a great candidate for a free spray-on update at your neighborhood dealership... the same kind of loss leader for maintenance that oil changes are.

[josho]

I see this as an interesting business lesson for startups, but even more general.

First, what a great marketing angle, a self-cleaning car, how cool is that! I imagine 6 o'clock news stations across the country showing clips from this video tonight.

Second, what a great up-sell opportunity. Now every oil change service done by Nissan can include a new $50 charge (or whatever the market will bear) for re-applying the self-cleaning paint.

Third, could they even push an environmental angle? Ie. litres/gallons of water saved by not going through a car wash?

So, with one new feature Nissan has gained free marketing, and an incremental revenue source for their dealers. Not bad for a mature market.

[Qworg]

Even better, they didn't actually develop anything.

Ultra Ever Dry (http://dry.technology/index.html) has been around for a while now. It is pretty remarkable.

The only downside is that it needs to be reapplied (and it cannot be used on windows). It wears off at a rate depending on how much abuse it takes - anything rubbing on it will hasten its decline.

EDIT: To dvcc's point below, this sounds very negative.

It is actually positive - earned media, essentially for free. Amazing job by Nissan marketers.

[mrtksn]

On the rainy days the Nissan cars would look much prettier among all these dirty cars.

I guess in such a case the whole brand would benefit. Every single car would be like an advertisement with all the spotlights on them.

[poopsintub]

The cost of reapplying would be pretty high. Look at the amount of masking-off and prep work they do. You go in for an oil change and tire rotation which would normally take an hour but instead have to pick your car up the next day because it has to dry.

I get a free car wash with each service of my car. That takes long enough.

[alexkiritz]

Or it could be a push to give dealers something to do when everyone starts buying electric cars.

[michaelbuckbee]

If the coating is anything like Neverwet it's not the initial application and demonstration where the issue lies, but in the long term use and breakdown (aka will it still work after being in Arizona heat and Alaskan winters?)

[leorocky]

RIP car washes! Wow and that self cleaning paint action, I just had to see it. At this point I just think a ban on wired.com is called for on HN. Whatever nice discussions we've had from wired is probably not offset by the constant shit from this domain. I know I've sung this tune before.

[hnnewguy]

>At this point I just think a ban on wired.com is called for on HN.

Why is this uninteresting to the audience, yet every time Tesla releases a PR piece it appears on the front page? I'm not sure either really "deserves" much attention here, but that's how it works.

[jessaustin]

I'm tempted to agree, bu maybe your "tune" would be more persuasive if it weren't coming from a throwaway account?

[lukasm]

OK I've seen a dozens of different products like this. First time 8 years ago. Why are they not in production yet? Why can't I buy it in shop? Is it highly toxic or just works for a year? #confused

[kawsper]

There has been some concerns about carbon nanotubes could have asbestos-like properties [1] if not handled properly.

Maybe that could be part of the reason?

[1] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0113/130115-chemistr...

[matthewmacleod]

You can actually purchase Rust-Oleum's NeverWet in stores now: http://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/consumer-brands/...

It's not perfect - limited lifetime etc., but there are ways around that (re-applying annually?).

In general though, the reason you haven't seen these much is that it just takes a while to get from the lab to market!

[adriancooney]

It's not technically "self-cleaning" because it doesn't really clean itself but more dirt-repellant. Self-cleaning does look a lot better marketing wise though.

[awda]

Blogspam for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwoGsCAKsxU

[dang]

Yes. We changed the url from [1]. Wired is one of those sites that produces some solid articles and a lot of spammy fluff. We're not ready to lightweight it [2], but we're close.

1. http://www.wired.com/2014/04/self-washing-car

2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7658520

[pistle]

That's great until it breaks down (and it does). You can't get a basic detail, since the supporting products also won't work with it.

Once it does start breaking down, you have issues getting basic stuff like soap bubbles to work as needed to help clean the spots that are broken down.

If it can't be layered, without adverse effects to the color of the paint, trouble.

If it can't be removed for repainting, etc. trouble.

Probably usable for some cases, but not going to get traction in the broader market until someone can fix long-term cost of ownership issues.

Have some car zen. Watch Ammo NYC videos on youtube https://www.youtube.com/user/AMMONYCdotcom

[EGreg]

Can we just use this on our cars? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPM8OR6W6WE

[sgt]

I like it a lot - but I don't think it'll ever make car washes completely obsolete. There are quite a few places that can still get dirty, e.g. tires, rims, wheel arches, lights, grilles, windshield wipers, mirrors, and ofcourse not to forget the big elephant in the room; the interior.

If this really catches on and becomes commonplace in most cars, I think this in the end will complement the car wash industry just fine.

[frogpelt]

The hydrophobic/oleophobic coating bay could be another option at the car wash.

That's a great idea.

[sp332]

Ars Technica experimented with the stuff last year. It looks like a lot of fun :) http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/the-internet-demanded...

[danmaz74]

I remember a similar German technology from way back here on HN, and found it: http://en.dienanoexperten.de/produkte.htm

But in the end it looks like they didn't expand at all. I would be curious to know what is the problem.

[kristiandupont]

I'm assuming this is made with nanotechnology similar to Neverwet. I haven't looked properly into it but I remember reading that there is suspicion that nanotubes might be dangerous like asbestos. Imagine cars with this coating crashing, sending dust of that stuff into the air..

[mcescalante]

This is another link bait situation from Wired, which seems to be happening often nowadays.

This is just some "stuff-resistant" paint that works better than the paint on cars now. It would be nice if all cars had this, but I'm sure that's just a matter of time / manufacturer.

[Istof]

The product used appears to be Ultra-Ever Dry and is sold and marketed by Florida-based Ultratech International http://www.spillcontainment.com/everdry

[dannytipple]

Some guy put this on his 4x4 over a year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRlQAhlwb2E

[rabino]

Looks like it's using something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEH6tDLKcVU

[obsurveyor]

Look at that headlight on the treated side of the car. The cloudiness these types of applications add makes it look like the headlight of a decade old car.

[chalgo]

But they masked the headlights in the treatment process. Which also raises the issue, you'll still need to wash your headlights and number plate.

[ermintrude]

Cars...meh. One word: Dinner plates.

[tyree732]

While that would be nice from a cleaning perspective, from an eating perspective that might make certain meals awkward to eat and prepare.

[cm2012]

That would be pretty cool!

[BryanB55]

So pretty much just a hydrophobic coating, which is the same as properly sealed and waxed paint.