What I love about this kid is that he admits it's a "stupid" app. If we could get a lot of SV to admit the same thing, perhaps we'd have a healthier culture.
But no, it's business-y-fake-success-killing-it-bullshit all the way down.
It's easy (or easier) to call your own app "stupid" when it's a single-person effort. As soon as you bring on other people to help, it's hard to call it "stupid" - not because the app changed and not because you think it's any less stupid at that point, but simply because by calling it "stupid," you're ascribing the label to someone else's work (which may or may not be welcome).
For a team to maintain that perspective (that their app is not going to solve world hunger any time soon) requires some real humility and open communication. You've got to take it seriously enough to produce quality work, but not so seriously that you convince yourself it's anything more than a stupid app at the end of the day.
absolutely what I came here to post, props to the kid for this. I am sick of companies like pretending like their app will "change the way people <whatever>". No it absolutely will not. It's a runaway success sexting app, or a runaway success "stupid game" - just admit it and I'll respect you more for it!
As much as I like the story, those stories are like exceptional lotto millionaire stories which keep the app rush alive, despite growing stats that overwhelming majority of app entrepreneurs can't make enough for a living, just with one app. So other kids, don't put too much hope on the possibility that you could do the same. But it could help you land a nice job..
That's the advice I give to aspiring app store millionaires: on average there's no money in the app store, but there's plenty of money to be made making apps for someone else. Throw something on the store that's above the level of flashlight app, and point to it when in contact with a potential employer. There is no ??? step, you just move straight to Step 4: Profit.
Most app entrepreneurs wouldnt go as far as he did w/ regards to marketing. I think that was a big takeaway in the difference of drive. Most stop at facebook ads not working if even that. Extrapolate that approach to problem solving and you start to see a big diff in this entrepreneurs approach compared to others. I agree that luck is involved but don't let that blind you from the other ways he set himself up for a better shot at that.
It's not precisely a lotto. He has resilience, horse sense about what people like, and evidently a very high capability of negotiation. While he did manage to hit some luck, he has some skills and capabilities which will take him far if the horse sense doesn't leave with the onset of fame.
True but there is enough money in apps to make it fun and worth it as a hobby. I make Android apps and while I had a big flop with a game my two non-game apps have made me a nice chunk of money. I enjoyed making them and there's enough money in it that I'm not wasting my time. Plus it helped me get my job.
It's pretty alarming that the net financial outcome of all his efforts and 4Snaps' popularity and success is not enough to even pay his private school tuition. No doubt the intangibles will transform his life (network, fame, Zuckerberg, experience, etc...), but as a commentary on the viability of the app store for monetary gain in games, it's pretty bleak.
As a developer, it was wildly successful (can't overstate that enough). As an entrepreneur, it was a big failure. If, as an entrepreneur, you're jealous of his success, you need to reevaluate your priorities and consider a change of profession.
I think of it as Google and Apples failure mostly. Current app stores are terrible for new app discovery. Even for games which used to be a lucrative market a couple of years ago there seems to be just a handful that take in most of the money - which causes Google and Apple to showcase them more hiding all the new interesting lesser known apps.
You know what, this is a wonderful age we live in. A 13 year old kid can make money off iOS apps, at 17 they can make serious money.
When I was a kid the best I could do was have opensource stuff out there used by thousands of people. Personal gratification was high, but my wallet never got anything out of that, there just weren't any decent distribution channels for non-free stuff. And this was less than ten years ago.
No doubt there is more opportunity today than before as the Internet has grown, but 15 years ago, I got my start as a young teenager selling shareware, which was quite common back then. I don't have any data on this right now, but I bet the economics of it was better back then for the little guy too because there was so little competition versus the millions of apps out there now. I made more money back then selling shareware than 99% of people do now selling apps.
“[It] was the most stressful time of my whole life,” Sayman says. “It will help me as an adult in the future because I learned how to be [stressed]. Now I understand adults completely.”
This quote makes me want to drop everything and walk off into the forest.
Don't tell people your age, they won't take you seriously despite any evidence.
Working on a corporate team is nothing like contributing to OSS on your own, you will have to relearn a lot of stuff. It's fine, just don't get frustrated when it happens. In fact a lot of programming I felt like I "learned again" as I grew older, e.g. having used a functional language and coming back to Python I found myself writing it very differently from how I had before.
Learn a variety of weird languages. There's not much to be gained from knowing both Ruby and Python (except maybe when you're looking for a job), but if you've used Haskell and Smalltalk and Erlang and TCL you'll learn things from each that make you a much better programmer.
Never stop learning. Pay attention to that little voice in your head that says "there must be an easier way to do this" - it's usually right.
I did that as well. Find what makes you code. For me it was coding games and websites. I could show them to my friends and that was pretty cool :) motivated me a great deal.
Do what you love. Right now you're a kid: your room and board are taken care of; you have the freedom to try a million different things and see if you like them (heck, you might discover that you don't want to code for the rest of your life: that's alright too).
Read lots of code, and write lots of code, and have fun. If you're suited for it, you'll know.
I started coding when I was 13 (over half a lifetime ago!). I do have some advice, but it's a bit long for a HN comment made at work - hit me up on email if you like.
Log out of this website, turn away, and never come back. Assuming you want to keep your coding as natural, fun, and creative as possible. You likely don't have the awareness and wisdom yet to remain untarnished by the many garbage influences you'll find on a site like this.
Keep doing your own thing and building confidence in exploring your own paths, because there's a whole world out there that's going to tell you how things should be done and what defines success (to them). They're even going to sound really smart and appear to be doing things right based on some metric for "success", but only you personally can figure that out for yourself. It'll be harder to wrestle with figuring out your values, but will be far more worth it in the end, always stay true to what you want to do.
Once you build some confidence and consistent integrity in your values and your own life approach, then come back.
> His father lost his job, and in 2012 their family home was foreclosed on.
> They had to move into a much smaller apartment, and at the age of 16, Sayman found himself in the strange situation of helping his parents make the mortgage payments on the new place.
In poor and lower-middle class families, it is quite common for a teenage son or daughter to contribute to the rent or power/telephone bill out of the money they make working minimum wage jobs.
If Mom and/or Dad are also working minimum wage jobs, it's impossible to pay mortgage payments in even relatively-inexpensive large cities.
As a personal anecdote, my grandmother helped her family pay the rent when she was a teenager by working as a waitress. Her father had died at a young age. My parent's and my generation were both fortunate enough to not have to worry about this.
Unfortunately, here in the US, this type of family arrangement will only increase in the future, given the fact that this generation is the first generation in modern US economic history where the a generation is worse off financially than their parents were at the same age.
You missed the phrase "He also started pitching in for his and his sister’s private school tuition." What kind of family, so obviously down in luck, would pay to have a member of their family go to a private school?
The tone of this article is hilarious. Someone made an app, all by themselves! With no VC help! It's amazing! It wasn't that long ago that in the wreckage of the first .com bubble people could make websites, then apps, without millions in funding. This story is awesome, this kid is awesome, I wish stories like this weren't such "news".
What a ridiculously overwrought writing style. This is why Pando is terrible:
> Instead, it took sheer force of will and a refusal to back down to any of the obstacles he faced. That, and an unholy faith in the power of Google to answer his questions.
Don't get me wrong, this kid is pretty awesome, and I'm happy for his success. But let's be serious: He got lucky with a silly fun app that caught on.
Did you even read the article? What I found most striking was the he didn't just "get lucky" ... he may have gotten lucky once but he had numerous setbacks that he had to overcome, and did so very creatively.
From his creative Instagram marketing, to his deals to get a server, to his numerous app enhancements and rewrites to address problems, he's got a lot more than "luck" on his side.
Your could argue the Flappy Birds guy got lucky, but this kid had multiple successes, setbacks and kept (and keeps) fighting to move to the next level.
Neat to see the community and parental support a kid who's willing to go outside of the usual methods of learning (school) and do things on his own. Not a real fan of the article though, seems unnecessarily patronizing to me: "His braces give him a charming little lisp." Really?
[+] [-] mattgreenrocks|12 years ago|reply
But no, it's business-y-fake-success-killing-it-bullshit all the way down.
[+] [-] dperfect|12 years ago|reply
For a team to maintain that perspective (that their app is not going to solve world hunger any time soon) requires some real humility and open communication. You've got to take it seriously enough to produce quality work, but not so seriously that you convince yourself it's anything more than a stupid app at the end of the day.
[+] [-] maaarghk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diminish|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikestew|12 years ago|reply
That's the advice I give to aspiring app store millionaires: on average there's no money in the app store, but there's plenty of money to be made making apps for someone else. Throw something on the store that's above the level of flashlight app, and point to it when in contact with a potential employer. There is no ??? step, you just move straight to Step 4: Profit.
[+] [-] nsxwolf|12 years ago|reply
My wife is going to let me do one more app, and if it doesn't earn enough to break even, I am instructed to shut down operations.
I am very impressed with and jealous of this kid's success.
[+] [-] jonny_eh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yoshyosh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pnathan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] habosa|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eldude|12 years ago|reply
As a developer, it was wildly successful (can't overstate that enough). As an entrepreneur, it was a big failure. If, as an entrepreneur, you're jealous of his success, you need to reevaluate your priorities and consider a change of profession.
Too much Silicon Valley navel-gazing here.
[+] [-] hatu|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] simonlebon|12 years ago|reply
Maybe "Silicon Valley navel-gazer" would be better.
[+] [-] Swizec|12 years ago|reply
When I was a kid the best I could do was have opensource stuff out there used by thousands of people. Personal gratification was high, but my wallet never got anything out of that, there just weren't any decent distribution channels for non-free stuff. And this was less than ten years ago.
Kudos to the kid!
[+] [-] hansy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anatari|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] d12345m|12 years ago|reply
This quote makes me want to drop everything and walk off into the forest.
[+] [-] caffinatedmonk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmm|12 years ago|reply
Working on a corporate team is nothing like contributing to OSS on your own, you will have to relearn a lot of stuff. It's fine, just don't get frustrated when it happens. In fact a lot of programming I felt like I "learned again" as I grew older, e.g. having used a functional language and coming back to Python I found myself writing it very differently from how I had before.
Learn a variety of weird languages. There's not much to be gained from knowing both Ruby and Python (except maybe when you're looking for a job), but if you've used Haskell and Smalltalk and Erlang and TCL you'll learn things from each that make you a much better programmer.
Never stop learning. Pay attention to that little voice in your head that says "there must be an easier way to do this" - it's usually right.
[+] [-] newobj|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baby|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wtbob|12 years ago|reply
Read lots of code, and write lots of code, and have fun. If you're suited for it, you'll know.
[+] [-] pnathan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ttty|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kirse|12 years ago|reply
Keep doing your own thing and building confidence in exploring your own paths, because there's a whole world out there that's going to tell you how things should be done and what defines success (to them). They're even going to sound really smart and appear to be doing things right based on some metric for "success", but only you personally can figure that out for yourself. It'll be harder to wrestle with figuring out your values, but will be far more worth it in the end, always stay true to what you want to do.
Once you build some confidence and consistent integrity in your values and your own life approach, then come back.
[+] [-] luisivan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] differentView|12 years ago|reply
> They had to move into a much smaller apartment, and at the age of 16, Sayman found himself in the strange situation of helping his parents make the mortgage payments on the new place.
This part sounds strange to me.
[+] [-] jnbiche|12 years ago|reply
If Mom and/or Dad are also working minimum wage jobs, it's impossible to pay mortgage payments in even relatively-inexpensive large cities.
As a personal anecdote, my grandmother helped her family pay the rent when she was a teenager by working as a waitress. Her father had died at a young age. My parent's and my generation were both fortunate enough to not have to worry about this.
Unfortunately, here in the US, this type of family arrangement will only increase in the future, given the fact that this generation is the first generation in modern US economic history where the a generation is worse off financially than their parents were at the same age.
[+] [-] windsurfer|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewfong|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brianbreslin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MattGrommes|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ForHackernews|12 years ago|reply
> Instead, it took sheer force of will and a refusal to back down to any of the obstacles he faced. That, and an unholy faith in the power of Google to answer his questions.
Don't get me wrong, this kid is pretty awesome, and I'm happy for his success. But let's be serious: He got lucky with a silly fun app that caught on.
[+] [-] josefresco|12 years ago|reply
From his creative Instagram marketing, to his deals to get a server, to his numerous app enhancements and rewrites to address problems, he's got a lot more than "luck" on his side.
Your could argue the Flappy Birds guy got lucky, but this kid had multiple successes, setbacks and kept (and keeps) fighting to move to the next level.
[+] [-] sp332|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freditup|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomjakubowski|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] theycallmemorty|12 years ago|reply
Must be wonderful to have a validated idea fall in your lap like that!
[+] [-] msandford|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jakebellacera|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbhl|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] gdilla|12 years ago|reply