This is really closing the already-small-gap between Apple and their competitors in the All-in-one space. I've been shopping for an All-in-one and it's thoroughly unimpressive - to get something with Apple-level quality, you really have to pay an Apple-level price... and at that point, you start wondering why shop with a brand with a worse reputation than Apple? I mean, I like Asus hardware, but I wouldn't want to pay Apple prices for Asus hardware.
In my experience of looking for an all-in-one: if you want apple-quality but from any other manufacturer, be prepared to actually spend more money than you would on an iMac.
Obviously with an iMac you are not getting a touchscreen that is standard on every other AiO,but I can't say I would use such feature.
I fail to understand why someone would buy this over a Mac Mini and an external display: cheaper, more powerful, ability to change displays, only two more cables (power and data for the display).
Simplicity? My grandma doesn't want to buy an "external display", she would truly have no idea where to even start to do that. And then after she's got the Mac mini, the external display, and the cable to connect the display (assuming she was able to find the right one,) someone then has to set it up for her.
Compare that to an iMac. Go to the Apple store, drop $1k, take it home, plug in the power cable, and she's on Facebook in minutes.
That's the friction that iMac removes. If the customer has to leave the electronics store with multiple boxes from several different companies, and has the ability to buy the "wrong thing" (DVI instead of HDMI, etc.), it's probably a sign that the process can be simplified.
Because some people like to have a single machine, like my mother who INSISTED on buying an iMac, because she absolutely loved the idea of having to plug only a single cable in, and not having the computer as a separate box, just a monitor on her desk. That's not a choice I would make,but she liked it,so why not?
You forgot to account for speakers - more cables there. In general, the advantage to an all-in-one device is aesthetics. If you want something in your living room? All-in-one is the way to go. If you go with a wireless keyboard and mouse, you're tethered by a single solitary power cable.
It's once place where I'm generally disappointed in Apple's competitors (I loathe Apple but I freely admit they win because they're the best). Non-Apple all-in-one devices either ugly and anemic or fail to compete with Apple on price (if Apple beats you on price, you lose). The big thing I think competitors need to learn from Apple is to stop being such size-queens. Save some money on monitor size and focus on getting the other details right.
Same goes for laptops - the average Windows laptop the same size as the the largest Macbook. Apple is one of the only companies even building in the 11" form-factor.
On the technical front, this one has a Haswell CPU (more efficient and has a HD5000), 8GB RAM, an IPS screen, and bundled keyboard and mouse. Also you can still plug an external monitor to "change" the display.
On the functional side, thanks to the L shaped foot with the huge cable guiding hole, iMacs "hover" over the desk and thus have almost zero footprint. It's extremely practical to be able to push documents around or move your legs and not have dangling cables or boxes occupying above- or below-desk space.
Well, at this point in time, the Mac mini is pretty old tech. It was last updated in 2012 and has an Ivy Bridge CPU and Intel HD 4000 graphics and 802.11n. The iMac is the next gen, so it has a Haswell CPU, Intel HD 5000 graphics, and 802.11ac.
Also, I think buying your own external display that is the same quality as the iMac one would be more expensive than people think... but then , most people don't need that good a display.
My grandpa wondered about $200 dungerees. Going into the Apple store and walking out with a box is an experience people will pay for. So is looking at one's desk and remembering that experience via gazing at an artifact or suggesting that experience in conversation.
There's more to it than that of course, just as with $200 pants - they're often nicer to wear rather than good enough. So long as they fit. But they aren't usually cut for all body shapes. It's ok to say 'Not for me' and move on by which I mean that assuming this is an alternative to a Mini has already ruled out all those people who don't consider Mini's in the first place.
Assuming that you are knowledgeable about computers and not just looking for the most simple solution, its aesthetics and simplicity. Well engineered up to the very last detail, beautiful, great software, very good hardware.
There is no real competition in this space (unfortunately), so people pay a premium. If you care about how your room feels, let me tell you: it feels a lot better with an iMac instead of some ugly 3rd party monitor.
I didn't care about that as much, but now for me it is absolutely worth it.
Also, its a computer for people that don't like to invest huge amounts of time finding the "right" pc - I've started to appreciate that as well.
It's more expensive to get a Mac Mini with equivalent performance, monitor, camera, speakers, keyboard, ram and mouse/trackpad, etc.
The gap is the closest I've seen yet—the mini used to be very underpowered and this is the lowest clock speed I've seen on an iMac in a long time. But the iMac is still the better value, especially if you want a top-quality machine. That said, I don't see how many people would want the $1100 model instead of the $1300 model now that there's such a gap between the two.
>1.4 GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor with Turbo Boost Speeds up to 2.7 GHz, Intel HD 5000 graphics, 8GB of memory and a 500GB hard drive.
Eh.. I got similar specs in laptop form for about half the price on black Friday last year.
I'd like to get something like this for a desktop but I'm afraid my Ubuntu might have some issues on the hardware. I'll wait until I find it slightly used for half the cost.
On a side note: Is absolutely everything Apple does "HN worthy"?
Can someone explain to me how this product is new or innovative or really interesting?
>I'd like to get something like this for a desktop but I'm afraid my Ubuntu might have some issues on the hardware. I'll wait until I find it slightly used for half the cost.
It's similar in the idea, it will support Ubuntu (or Linux in general) 100%, no drivers problems. Obviously it's not branded Apple so some people might not like it.
That sounded cynical but leaving out possibly the most expensive component on the iMac to compare it to a generic laptop with a smaller screen on a Black friday sale doesn't make sense.
Glad they are moving a little downmarket. My friend wanted a new computer, and I figured an iMac would be perfect for her, because she just plans to sit it on a desk. But then I looked at the prices... who wants to spend $1299 on a desktop machine nowadays? And that's with no SSD, so a Macbook Air is probably going to be faster for a lot of stuff in day-to-day to use.
having just bought the $1299 model last year, glad to see they're trying to offer a cheaper model. Lowest used to be $1199 a few years back - another $100 to $1299 (essentially $1400 with tax) was a big hit to take. Yes, $200 is just $200 - these new $1099 ones aren't free, but... this may make the difference between someone getting a new one vs not.
1.4ghz seems awfully slow, but... I suspect for a lot of what many people do - email, youtube, Facebook, a bit of iTunes music, this will be more than fine. But maybe not. I'd rather people not have a horribly bad experience on something too underpowered for the software. That said, they pushed out the retina mbp a couple years ago(?) and that experience was not all that great (imo) - laggy window drag, etc.
I do all my development work (which involves a lot of heavy Scala stuff) on a 2012 MacBook Air, which is a wee bit slower than this one. The CPU really is not a problem.
There's no SSD or 'Fusion Drive' in this one, which will make it bog down a lot. It's a shame that Apple won't go for a $999 model with a 64GB SSD or something. Should be enough for classrooms and anyone who wants a basic computer.
What's your opinion of using this for a kids' first computer? (Let's set aside the "toy" computers sold at Christmas). I'm assuming it's more than adequate for most things. Won't be used for video-encoding, playing hardcore games, etc. Literally for the family which means very simple needs. Is 1.4ghz really that slow? Really??!!
I instructed my in-laws to buy the low-end iMac last year. I tried to get them to go for a MacBook, but they had to have a desktop. The SSD would have been tons faster, but for their purposes, this works great.
Comparing this on the store page[1] this is a significant jump down from the $1,299 iMac in CPU, graphics and hard drive space. Seems like the Mac is taking a page from the iPhone line and selling last year's model as a cheaper option.
Even though I copied a "gold build" from "TonyMacx86" (the "hackintosh authority"), the machine freezes randomly every hour, sometimes a week. But it will freeze and I'll have to do a hard reset.
Also, many of Apples services won't work with a hackintosh. iMessage and FaceTime, for example. To fix it, you'll need to call Apple and convince them to whitelist your fake generated system ID, risking getting your apple ID banned.
Something also happened during the installation so I have to have a Mavericks USB drive attached at all times to boot the damn thing.
Oh, and don't forget you have to reconfigure the whole thing when you apply an update.
Had I known these things I'd just have saved up a little more and bought the real thing.
Calling something illegal is usually reserved for things that are in the criminal code. There is no law against running Mac OS X on non-Apple computers. No one will be going to jail. Nothing will happen. You don't even have to feel bad. Apple would have to sue in civil court and would have to prove damages. They would not be able to prove damages.
Against the licence != illegal, depending on where you are in the world. In most EU countries, if you show the receipt of purchase for a stand alone copy of OSX, you can install it on anything you like legally,EULA prohibiting that would never stand up in any European court.
I had a hackintosh Dell Mini 9 netbook that I used as my primary machine for 2 years.
As far as hackintosh's go, I think it's accepted that piece of hardware is one of the best supported ever. All the hardware worked flawlessly, all the time. It even slept and work up.
Even still, there were a hundred little things that it did (or didn't do) compared to Apple hardware running OS X. After all those years, the choice was very simple. I bought a MacBook Air, and I've never regretted it.
And the cost of significantly more complexity and a far from optimal user experience. A hackintosh is fine for a very minute slice of the population. Even building a PC, except for hard-core gamers, isn't really a thing anymore.
I don't understand this product. For the same price, you could get a model with much better specs from the Apple Refurbished Store. Anyone who has ever bought Apple Refurb knows that the products are essentially new.
I agree with the bulk of your statement, which is why the last three Apple computers I've bought with my own money have been refurbs.
However, people that walk into an Apple store to buy a computer don't want to buy a "used" computer. (Or people placing bulk orders for enterprises or educational institutions, either.)
My guess? This suggests the old paradigm Mac Mini's lifecycle may be winding down because this targets Apple's core market in a manner consistent with the rest of Apple's product lineup and the not-all-in-one Mini doesn't no matter how much communities like this one love it.
[+] [-] Pxtl|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gambiting|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JimmaDaRustla|11 years ago|reply
Edit: Core speed is actually 0.3ghz lower than I thought...
[+] [-] asdasd222|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsr_|11 years ago|reply
I fail to understand why someone would buy this over a Mac Mini and an external display: cheaper, more powerful, ability to change displays, only two more cables (power and data for the display).
Anyone care to enlighten me?
[+] [-] cmelbye|11 years ago|reply
Compare that to an iMac. Go to the Apple store, drop $1k, take it home, plug in the power cable, and she's on Facebook in minutes.
That's the friction that iMac removes. If the customer has to leave the electronics store with multiple boxes from several different companies, and has the ability to buy the "wrong thing" (DVI instead of HDMI, etc.), it's probably a sign that the process can be simplified.
[+] [-] gambiting|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Pxtl|11 years ago|reply
It's once place where I'm generally disappointed in Apple's competitors (I loathe Apple but I freely admit they win because they're the best). Non-Apple all-in-one devices either ugly and anemic or fail to compete with Apple on price (if Apple beats you on price, you lose). The big thing I think competitors need to learn from Apple is to stop being such size-queens. Save some money on monitor size and focus on getting the other details right.
Same goes for laptops - the average Windows laptop the same size as the the largest Macbook. Apple is one of the only companies even building in the 11" form-factor.
[+] [-] lloeki|11 years ago|reply
On the functional side, thanks to the L shaped foot with the huge cable guiding hole, iMacs "hover" over the desk and thus have almost zero footprint. It's extremely practical to be able to push documents around or move your legs and not have dangling cables or boxes occupying above- or below-desk space.
[+] [-] Spooky23|11 years ago|reply
The audience are the same people buying 8GB iPhones and 16GB iPad Minis -- they need the platform, but don't care much about the speeds and feeds.
[+] [-] smackfu|11 years ago|reply
Also, I think buying your own external display that is the same quality as the iMac one would be more expensive than people think... but then , most people don't need that good a display.
[+] [-] brudgers|11 years ago|reply
There's more to it than that of course, just as with $200 pants - they're often nicer to wear rather than good enough. So long as they fit. But they aren't usually cut for all body shapes. It's ok to say 'Not for me' and move on by which I mean that assuming this is an alternative to a Mini has already ruled out all those people who don't consider Mini's in the first place.
[+] [-] MrBuddyCasino|11 years ago|reply
There is no real competition in this space (unfortunately), so people pay a premium. If you care about how your room feels, let me tell you: it feels a lot better with an iMac instead of some ugly 3rd party monitor. I didn't care about that as much, but now for me it is absolutely worth it.
Also, its a computer for people that don't like to invest huge amounts of time finding the "right" pc - I've started to appreciate that as well.
[+] [-] hackety|11 years ago|reply
2) self-contained. Only a power cable is required. Makes a neat desk.
3) it's completely silent (but then again so is a mac mini)
4) the higher-end models have an actual graphics card (mac mini has very bad graphics)
[+] [-] xiaoma|11 years ago|reply
The gap is the closest I've seen yet—the mini used to be very underpowered and this is the lowest clock speed I've seen on an iMac in a long time. But the iMac is still the better value, especially if you want a top-quality machine. That said, I don't see how many people would want the $1100 model instead of the $1300 model now that there's such a gap between the two.
[+] [-] deelowe|11 years ago|reply
Simply put, because it's designed by Apple. Evidently, that alone is enough to drive a much higher demand than similarly priced competing products.
[+] [-] chenster|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] morty16|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bane|11 years ago|reply
In fact, I can get an all in one with much better specs for less. http://www.costco.com/.product.100115209.html?cm_sp=RichRele...
Other than the crap specs, it's really hard to buy into the idea that this is "entry level" when it's selling at a mid-level price.
This should be a $799 price point max.
Are we back to the Apple tax again?
[+] [-] danford|11 years ago|reply
Eh.. I got similar specs in laptop form for about half the price on black Friday last year.
I'd like to get something like this for a desktop but I'm afraid my Ubuntu might have some issues on the hardware. I'll wait until I find it slightly used for half the cost.
On a side note: Is absolutely everything Apple does "HN worthy"?
Can someone explain to me how this product is new or innovative or really interesting?
[+] [-] noir_lord|11 years ago|reply
I'm also not an Apple user but I still read the stories about what they are up to as I find them an interesting company to watch.
[+] [-] Morgawr|11 years ago|reply
You might want to look at something like https://system76.com/desktops/model/sabc2
It's similar in the idea, it will support Ubuntu (or Linux in general) 100%, no drivers problems. Obviously it's not branded Apple so some people might not like it.
[+] [-] nacs|11 years ago|reply
That sounded cynical but leaving out possibly the most expensive component on the iMac to compare it to a generic laptop with a smaller screen on a Black friday sale doesn't make sense.
[+] [-] joesmo|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] smackfu|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mchanson|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChikkaChiChi|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mgkimsal|11 years ago|reply
1.4ghz seems awfully slow, but... I suspect for a lot of what many people do - email, youtube, Facebook, a bit of iTunes music, this will be more than fine. But maybe not. I'd rather people not have a horribly bad experience on something too underpowered for the software. That said, they pushed out the retina mbp a couple years ago(?) and that experience was not all that great (imo) - laggy window drag, etc.
[+] [-] DCKing|11 years ago|reply
There's no SSD or 'Fusion Drive' in this one, which will make it bog down a lot. It's a shame that Apple won't go for a $999 model with a 64GB SSD or something. Should be enough for classrooms and anyone who wants a basic computer.
[+] [-] TazeTSchnitzel|11 years ago|reply
Speaking as someone with a MacBook Air who does software development (compiling large projects like the Zend engine).
[+] [-] bane|11 years ago|reply
But honestly, a system targeting that demographic and use-case (and built minimally to serve them) should be several hundred dollars less.
[+] [-] cpher|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hackety|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freshyill|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tekgo|11 years ago|reply
[1] http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/imac
[+] [-] tmikaeld|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hackety|11 years ago|reply
Even though I copied a "gold build" from "TonyMacx86" (the "hackintosh authority"), the machine freezes randomly every hour, sometimes a week. But it will freeze and I'll have to do a hard reset.
Also, many of Apples services won't work with a hackintosh. iMessage and FaceTime, for example. To fix it, you'll need to call Apple and convince them to whitelist your fake generated system ID, risking getting your apple ID banned.
Something also happened during the installation so I have to have a Mavericks USB drive attached at all times to boot the damn thing.
Oh, and don't forget you have to reconfigure the whole thing when you apply an update.
Had I known these things I'd just have saved up a little more and bought the real thing.
[+] [-] glibgil|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gambiting|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grecy|11 years ago|reply
As far as hackintosh's go, I think it's accepted that piece of hardware is one of the best supported ever. All the hardware worked flawlessly, all the time. It even slept and work up.
Even still, there were a hundred little things that it did (or didn't do) compared to Apple hardware running OS X. After all those years, the choice was very simple. I bought a MacBook Air, and I've never regretted it.
[+] [-] freshyill|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] outworlder|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ncw96|11 years ago|reply
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FE086LL/A/refurbished-215-...
[+] [-] rsfinn|11 years ago|reply
However, people that walk into an Apple store to buy a computer don't want to buy a "used" computer. (Or people placing bulk orders for enterprises or educational institutions, either.)
[+] [-] pling|11 years ago|reply
Probably not! :(
[+] [-] brudgers|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kennyledet|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HugoDias|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] judk|11 years ago|reply