1) get medical help. This should include a wide range of clinicians - a psychiatrist to diagnose illness and prescribe medication; some kind of psychological therapy (when you're ready); some kind of occupational therapist (to either keep you in work; or rapidly get you back into work). You are in England. This should be both free and high quality, althogh MH services are pushed nationwide and especially in the capital. You can ask your GP about these - or sometimes yu can self-refer. Websearh for your location and terms like "IAPT".
2) many people are not good at listening. You can find free listeners, some of whom hae training. Or you could pay for registered qualified therapists. BACP is one espected registrarion. Sessions should cost less than £50 per hour, although it's easy to spend more than that.
3) do a web search for Location and "social groups" - this should return a lon list of activities you can get involved in tha will introduce you to more people.
Depression and suicidal thing is treatable. Change is possible. But it's important to remember that depression can be a fatal illness, and can shorten a person's life. This isn't just through completed suicide, but through poor health caused by self neglect.
I've gone and registered at my GP and have kicked off this process. I didn't consider that the help I need would be from a range of clinicians, so will need to go and do some research on this.
I'm hoping through a referral I'll be able to setup a recurring session with a therapist.
"It's important to remember that depression can be a fatal illness, and can shorten a person's life. This isn't just through completed suicide, but through poor health caused by self neglect"
This really hits me hard. In an effort to positively move forward I decided just after the breakup that I wanted to lose a stone (14 pounds). -18 pounds later I'm feeling much better but for the last few evenings I've completely been off food.. "poor health caused by self neglect" Is something that I need to be very aware of. Thanks for highlighting it.
I remember reading a quote somewhere attributed to a person who survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. Paraphrased, they said that at the moment they jumped, they suddenly realized that every single problem in their life was fixable except the fact that they had just jumped off a f*ing bridge.
Adrenaline can do that to you. Unfortunately, it passes.
I try very hard to not make big, life-changing decisions when I'm happy and energetic, because it's usually jumping (if you'll excuse the pun) feet first into commitments that I'm not going to be able to keep when I go back to normal, level attitude--or even worse--my low periods, when failing at my commitments is not only a foregone conclusion, but I know it, and it makes me feel worse.
I can't tell you how many times I've resolved "this time, I'm going to ride my bike every day" or "this time, I'm going to work a normal schedule and not procrastinate". Yes, it's about willpower, but willpower is a function of energy. No energy, no willpower.
That's one of the insidious things about depression as a disease: it works to keep itself in place. Depression (saps|is-caused-by-a-sap-of) energy. It's like a lead blanket, holding you down in the chair, keeping you from the exercise and healthful food and water and sunlight you need to get out of it. I know it's not an animate object, but it helps me to think of it as so. I won't let "it" consume me, "it" win.
There was a rather good, if not morose, documentary about those who jumped off the GG Bridge, called "The Bridge"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_(2006_documentary_fi...
It was well made, but the whole spy-cam footage thing got some pretty negative reception iirc.
About the only useful part of this response is: I feel for you. I understand what you're going through, and I'm going to try and convince you to stick with it.
The rest of this: well, take it or leave it.
Sounds like you've managed to coincide two bad things in one go: a bad place in your career, and a bad place in your relationship. You've ended up with a double-whammy, so it's hit you hard.
From (limited) experience, I'd say let the relationship thing sort itself out. I know how it feels now: and it'll take 6 months before you wake up and go through the day, and then realise that you didn't think about it all day. That's when you know you're over it. Until then, just accept it. There are no shortcuts.
Meanwhile, focus on the job. It's the thing you CAN change. If you don't like it, change it. Maybe, even if it's "ok"... change it anyway. You need something that will distract, excite and occupy you for the next 6 months.
That's what I did anyway (also from the UK, also sporting a beard and feeding a cat). Change the career if you need to, because it's easier. Go and do something that makes you happy, for short-term (and long-term) happiness. The rest will sort itself out.
The double-whammy is certainly a good way of putting it. The new job (literally the next working day after the breakup) was specifically tailored on my previous shared vision. So even if it was the best job in the world it was going to be an uphill battle.
The job is "ok". Its good money, the idea and product is not based on fiction. I'm uncertain if its just my outlook on the job at the moment or the job itself. Either way, I take on board your sentiment of it being the one thing I CAN change. Maybe when I'm a little further down the line I'll consider something not solely based on the money?
"There are no shortcuts."
Really valid right now. I thought I could muscle my way through this but I can't.
I've gone ahead and done just that and will hopefully get a referral soon for a professional so that I may "air" my "grievances without judgment". Thanks for the support.
1. Therapy. If you're genuinely suicidal, go see a therapist or even a doctor, RIGHT NOW.
2. So you're in one of the world's most vibrant cities, you've got house-deposit kinda money saved, you're single and depressed. GTFO and travel. Go backpacking somewhere for a few months. If you're young enough (under 30) then get yourself a one-year visa for Australia and spend a few months travelling the east coast, staying at hostels, sunbathing, getting outside, meeting people (and if you're over 30 then do the same, you just might not be able to stay more than 3 months!). Seriously, you can't help it. I'm an expert at not meeting anyone, and even I didn't manage that on that trail.
Then, when you decide to come back to London, if you decide to come back to London, you'll have a different perspective on life, and realise this is just one city, a pretty grey one that constricts life in all sorts of ways. and she was just one woman, and there's a whole frickin' world out there waiting to be lived in. Fuck Suicide.
Nursie, thanks for the support. I've gone and registered at the GP and hopefully going to get a call to arrange to see a therapist soon. It wasn't easy.
Thankfully I'm under 30 so wouldn't get kicked out of Australia after 3 months (why that restriction is in place seems ludicrous). I've considered travelling but worry that presently that would be escaping my issues. When the time is right though the east coast of Australia sounds pretty awesome. I had never considered it as a location to get lost in so will jot it down. :+1:.
"There's a whole frickin' world out there waiting to be lived in. Fuck Suicide."
Made me smile.
This mentioned /r/programming, but in cause the author is reading... EDIT: The author is actually posting on proggit, so I've directly responded to them there. That said, in case anyone here is feeling this way...
Please, please, _please_ go see an actual mental health professional. They have the training and experience to help you in this situation. Random foreign denizens probably do not, and even if they do, this isn't the right place to be able to help.
I didn't do it for a very long time due to social stigmas around mental issues. I was never suicidal, but seriously. Please do it.
I should also mention that it can take a few tries to find someone who you're comfortable with.
Hey there, if you're listening! I actually dealt with something similar almost a decade ago. I never considered suicide, but during a snowy winter where I also experienced financial pressure and a lot of family strain and changes, I very slowly slipped into a sort of "fog."
I also became very sensitive, both to how people interacted with me, but even to physical things. I remember bumping my shoulder into a door one time and screaming, "OW!" It couldn't have really hurt - my shoulder is plenty strong - I think I just wanted attention. It was a natural overreaction. I would get upset about things that, in retrospect, shouldn't have really bothered me.
I also tended to wake up at 4am, filled with anxiety. I would tell myself to work, but really I would just waste time until morning came. You can't really be productive or focused at 4am.
I never felt sad or happy. I just felt nothing much at all. I was completely unaware of this at the time, of course. Other people around me were very aware of it.
My mood really disabled me, which only made things worse.
I was hesitant and too embarrassed to seek medical help, so instead I privately got a hold of some over the counter treatments: specifically 5-HTP supplements and St. John's Wort, if I recall. Although in retrospect I'm positive it was placebo effect, the instant I took these pills, I felt the fog lift over me. I physically felt something happened to me. I'll never forget it.
Really I think I just felt the relief of turning a corner, of taking some kind of action. I'm a naturally positive person who has childhood experience helping myself out of things, so maybe I was built better to deal with it. In that case, despite my success, I absolutely encourage you to seek medical help. It's no big deal. Don't sweat it. Just take a small step.
Life is short and it is amazing. Not "iPhone amazing" - but truly, absolutely amazing. It's a gift and we have a responsibility to put good things back into the world in return. You never know what good things are around the corner - but even more importantly, you can ACT to influence your life and what happens in it. Don't stress about any one thing, and make sure you are treating others well (by taking care of yourself).
Take care of yourself. You deserve to feel better.
Thanks for the kind words and your own story. Its interesting to hear you talk about "slowly slipped into a sort of 'fog.'". At times that feeling really resonates with how I'm feeling. Perhaps in the future I'll experience the "fog lift over me". For now though turning the corner was yesterday and although I feel like things have got worse I can also see thinning of that "fog". I think I made a mistake waiting so long to take action.
"Don't stress about any one thing, and make sure you are treating others well (by taking care of yourself)."
I'll keep that one close.
p.s I've registered and spoken to my GP and will be taking counselling as soon as I can.
I'm sure you mean well. But if there's a more efficient way to alienate someone than presenting the direct opposite of their experience as if it were some great objective Truth, I can't imagine what it is.
You can rebirth yourself in this life at any time.
Run (towards or away). When you can't run, fight. When you are beaten in the fight, become reborn.
For every group of 1, 100, 1 million people who you think see you as a failure, there are billions of others who will only know you as a whoever you are the first time they see you.
Internally, reconsider any rigid concept of self. Who are you? What do you value? Why do you value that?
You can spend each sublife toiling away to only see it destroyed by external or internal flaws in the design or tooling.
You have to let go of your 'self' to find yourself and that can mean trials and tribulations, but struggle and suffering is the human condition. Happiness comes in various sizes by playing the game with the human condition and having it go better than bad.
Small victories await. You must PLAY to win and play to WIN.
Run: Sell / give away / otherwise dispose of everything that anchors you to memories of the past. Archive or delete photos. Move house.
Fight: Physically: If you can drag yourself to it, find someone who teaches MMA and doesn't pull their punches, and doesn't expect you to either (edit: I mean, in a control situation where the training is hard, not like fight club or something). It feels damn good to be beaten up, and to be able to hit someone as hard as you can. Mentally / emotionally: don't kill yourself. Fight it.
Reborn: Just survive the next 6 - 12 months and you will be. I don't think there's anything you can do to make this happen over night. I've worked with some good counsellors and psychologists that have helped along the way. The good ones always say shocking things, for example one psychologist said to me "Look, I don't think being emotive is really that effective for you. Probably what you need to do is drink some cement - that is, harden the fuck up. Or, if you think it will help, drink your own urine. But anyway, clearly sitting around crying about your situation isn't working for you", which, in the context of what was happening, was exactly what I needed to hear. Hearing someone else say "oh, poor you, that must be hard" would have only made things worse. One of the best things a friend said to me was "Go on, kill yourself, you'll at least have achieved more than me." Ha!
If the author is reading this. PLEASE, please dont kill yourself. I wont say what you are going through is a minor bump in the road but if you can get some treatment and stress relief you will turn around again.
I can say from experience.
Talk to us. Please. If you need someone to talk to, e-mail me, I'll give you my number and you can even call me collect.
As others have said: for the time being at least, we have an NHS in this country. See your GP. Tell them you've been having those kind of thoughts. You will be referred to somebody who can help.
Reflections on associated issues:
There's a big problem with stigma attached to mental health issues, as is well observed by many. This is true 'in general'. But it can be easier to punish yourself when something like a breakup triggers a serious depressive episode - it feels 'stupid' to be so miserable about something that happens to everybody everywhere. It's just not true. A bad breakup is pretty traumatising. The human brain has innumerable virtues. A built in sense of perspective is not one of them. A qualified professional is not going to judge you for it; sometimes even just an hour with a therapist - just the act of going into the office, even - can puncture the worst of it.
More importantly, sometimes that can't - because some obvious proximate cause for a depressive episode can mask longer-term underlying mental health issues.
Alpha, omega: drag yourself into a doctor's office. All the best.
I had struggled with untreated suicidal depression for 15 years. I was very quiet about it. I am a web developer.
Three years ago I was divorced from my wife, left my birth religion and quit my job. On top of all my issues I was suffering from burnout – I hadn't had a vacation in years. Since I was the religious guy at my job I worked the holidays and was promised make up time. Company policy shifted at some point and we were only allowed to accrue a certain number of days with no rollover – when I quit, I also lost 35+ "make up" vacation days.
I tried getting another job right away, but quit after a month – it was an easy job, but I had lost my ability to work around others. I managed to pick up steady contract work for about a year, but this didn't give me much of a breather.
I also found a girlfriend who kept me distracted from my problems, but that wasn't to last.
Winter is when my depression hits hard, and it kicked in during the second year I was dating this girl. Having zero experience with depressed people, she couldn't handle it and dumped me. That's when everything I had gone through prior caught up to me.
Long story short – I got on medication and started therapy which helped a bit, but the suicidal thoughts and planning continued.
I don't remember exact time lines, but I think it was around 8 months ago that I decided to weigh the pros and cons of living by making a list. I decided not to off myself yet, and that instead I would try to focus on improving myself.
I am a homeschooled community college drop out. I grew up in a trailer and taught myself how to program when I was a child by making video games. I'm also a very creative person who writes, draws, composes music, etc. I started thinking about these things after making the suicide list, and realized that I had lost my way. I've never been one to care about money, but around a decade ago I was on welfare and living in the middle of nowhere. I managed to pull myself out of poverty by learning PHP and getting a job in Chicago. That was my salvation but also nearly my ruination. I had lost my creativity and life was all about work – I was making $96,000 a year at my full time job, plus keeping clients on the side.
In the last year I have been able to land another six figure job and multiple contracts with pretty big clients, but everything has consistently fallen through. I collapse a few months in, get panic attacks and feel suicidal again... so I had to take a different approach.
My current situation is this – I take on 3 to 6 month short term contracts, live on a shoestring budget (no cellphone, no car payment, nothing but the bare essentials), and then I self educate and work on personal projects for 3 to 4 months solid.
By doing this I have been able to learn 4 different game engines, 2 programming languages and finger pick on the guitar. Being raised as a homeschooled Jehovah's Witness left me with knowledge gaps, so I have also spent large amounts of time educating myself about science (genetics, biology, cosmology) and religion (I've read most of Dawkins, Hitchens and Sagan).
My goals have completely shifted over the last several months. For the first time in a very very long time I'm not thinking about suicide on a daily / weekly basis. I have put all of my creative energy into creating video games, and though I may never make a hit game or be a great musician or a scientist, these things are giving me exponentially more pleasure than working a full time job, spending 8 to 10 hours a day with people I don't love, playing office politics, supporting a platform I don't care about and just waiting for the weekend so I can sleep.
Winter is particularly difficult for me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder pretty much describes it perfectly. Vitamin D deficiency is huge and easy for someone with the sedentary lifestyle most of us lead. At the bare minimum, proper supplements helped me or just getting out in the sun with the intent that I need to recharge so to speak.
I think your key points help me in my spells as well: stay busy. To a degree I mask thoughts by simply overloading my brain enough that I simply can't think about them. It works and honestly I'm not one to care for what is considered healthy. At some point in my life I realized it's more important to find whatever works than to worry if it's useful or long term. I'm not in a pit of despair any more and frankly I don't care how I get out any more. At least not when the pit gets really big or deep like it desperately keeps trying to do.
I'm glad you found what works for you but I don't believe you have to take the minimalist approach you did. I'm glad it's working but we should strive to be at the top of our game. It does feel like a house of cards willing to topple at any moment but if you're anything like me, 99.9% of the obstacles you faced were entirely self-inflicted. I want success but it feels so awkward when I'm achieving it seemingly without any effort that I have to dick it up somehow to feel "normal" if that makes sense.
Out of blatant curiosity I'd like to know how you came about leaving your birth religion. Any Jehovah's Witnesses I've met seem to be so ideologically committed to that religion that I have a hard time imagining how anyone could reach a place where they stopped identifying with it. Care to shed some light on this? Also, thanks for sharing!
That was my first thought actually while reading the pastebin.
He has to become more selfish and find a calling that doesn't involve any other people.
He dedicated his entire life purpose to raising a family with his girlfriend, admirable but that's a huge goal dependent on just one person.
Find something that motivates you, that make life wort living.
Making money is not a goal/life purpose it's a means to an end. It's up to you to determine what that end is.
If you really want to start a family you have to realize it doesn't necessarily have to be with that girl there's always others.
Don't know if this advice is right for him right now i haven't been depressed since i was a teenager I'm just a natural selfish loaner however realizing that my goal in life shouldn't depend on other people helped me a lot.
I mean I would like to have a girlfriend and kids some day however if that never happens i won't be bothered by it I got so many other things i want to do.
Not knocking ya mate but getting a religious education from the likes of Dawkins, Hitchens and Sagan is like taking dance lessons from Stephen Hawking, just saying.
You may confuse the tidings of a bipolar disorder with external effects like co-workers. I think one of the most important part of dealing with depression is stopping to blame external circumstances, other people and even yourself. Come to think of it, stop blaming anything or anyone (like in buddhist phiĺosophy)!
Another part is to objectify suicidal thoughts. They are both extremely real, but caused by the disease and distorting reality. It's very easy to find reasons for suicidal thoughts, but they are hardly ever "true".
It's worth noting that I have a friend who was brought out of many years suicidal depression by his faith in God. I say that simply to add balance to our anecdotal judgments upon religion, albeit he isn't part of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
I feel like working on client projects aka work a few months and then taking few months to learn/work on your own ideas seems ideal. I have issues with depression and a hate-hate relationship with my work atm. I constantly fantasize about not working for anyone and spending all my time pursuing my own ideas.
Just curious... instead of 6 month work, 3 months personal projects, have you tried 6 hours work, 2 hours personal projects, 2 hours gym and/or people interactions?
Your story is in very many ways similar to mine (unfortunately, I'm still in the process of fixing my motivational problems). Care to get in touch via e-mail (mine is in the profile)? I'd love to know how you handled some of the religion-related issues.
I am currently on a situation very similar to yours. My suggestion: find a psychotherapist NOW. I am working on my problems NOW and it feel a lot better to just wandering on my bad thoughts all day long.
I am not ok yet, I still can't sleep well, I still feel paralyzed some days, I still have uncontrollable fears, but I am really making improvements and I have someone who supports me and shows me the way.
Oh, it sucks. I remember taking acid when dumped by a to-be girlfriend, I feel for you man.
Take a break, as others suggested, but with people. Maybe try changing your environment? I'm not a programmer, but close (well, a copywriter/marketer with humanities background) and noticed that you devs are different when it comes to emotions that other people. Maybe change your environment for a bit?
Working out is a good idea, though I'm not sure about the gym - it's quite solitary anyway! What helped me once was kendo. Roaring for two hours straight, being (gently) commanded by the sensei, lots of sweat and muscle pain made me think differently.
All in all - you can do it! Come back here in a few months and tell us how it turned out!
I also have a beard and have a relationship with a cat, and was with someone who I thought I would be with for the rest of my life, I also live in the UK and worked in London for over 5 years. I now run a small studio in Wales and day-to-day it is tough, I have been dealing with suicidal thoughts also and it is not easy. The only advice I can give is hold tight, it is very hard finding decent people (few and far between). Don't forget to enjoy the things you do for yourself, and slowly continue to hack away at things you want to change in your life - if I have learnt anything as of late, it is that things take time. All the best if you read this.
Dude, don't kill yourself. I bet that if you give it a couple of years you'll be in a dad with a wonderful family.
As a first step I'd recommend you to get a dog though, the condition less love you get from those fellas are what took me up from my depression. Also, it gives you something to do. Activation is important.
Don't make happiness in life conditional on other people's behavior. You cannot control other people. Even if you do everything right, your wife might leave you and your kids might turn out to be serial killers. They have their own agency and can make their own choices. You can't control other people.
Unfortunately humans are incredibly hard-wired to seek happiness in other people. Even the well-balanced professionals who don't care about money indicate that the #1 thing they desire is the admiration of their colleagues. Most hackers like us definitely fit in that mold.
I don't have any solutions to that. Maybe if I identify the problem someone else can come up with an answer. Dunno.
EDIT: We should make sure admiration is not a zero-sum game. Don't tell people on HN that there are only a certain number of ways to succeed. I've probably violated this rule many times, like complaining about people making yet another framework, which forks my attention.
I empathize. Have considered that there are other ways to "snap" than suicide (or violence in general)? Go and do something crazy, something you like. Not something to impress others. You don't need to help African children if you don't want to. You might just want to stay home and play some world of warcraft, that's totally fine. But whatever you do, don't do it to numb the pain, and don't do it for other people, do it for yourself.
There are many possible causes for what you're going through, a lot of them already listed and needing immediate psychiatric and psychological treatment. This is good advice, especially to help with the mental aspect of things so that you don't end your life prematurely.
But one thing no one mentioned, that i'm a bit surprised about because you mention falling asleep during work, waking up not feeling refreshed, etc. is a sleep study.
It's very very possible you might have a sleep disorder. You sound very much like i did in the early stages of my own sleep disorder, before my life completely fell apart, before multiple suicide attempts, before becoming homeless, before moving back home with my parents, before 9 years after symptoms first started, with health insurance again due to ACA in the US i finally saw a competent doctor and got properly evaluated, and found out i had developed narcolepsy.
Any number of other sleep disorders could cause your symptoms too, of depression and anxiety, as well as the other issues, with conditions like sleep apnea being the most common.
Please please speak to your GP and get a sleep study done, if you haven't had one done already. It's definitely worth doing before you make any final decisions, and it just might save your life.
When I read about the falling asleep at work and waking up to a headache, I thought sleep apnea was a probable root of the problems. Lack of sleep does terrible things to a person.
While I havent experienced your pain directly, I appreciate you sharing that with all of us.
Let me tell you something, earlier this year I also saw the end of a relationship I thought was with my partner in life and out of the sudden turns out it was completely not, dreams and plans of many many years shattered in a matter of 2 months.
The effect it had not only was emotional, physical (I was pretty much not eating, not sleeping for many weeks) even showed in the code I write, bugs, crappy code, low productivity.
I look back at the commit graphs and there is a HUGE drop during those days, and while that pain still hurts sometimes, I've slowly have been coming out of that 'hole' I was in and what really helped me to get through it was to understand that:
I was suffering because of the idealization I made of the other person and the future I was hoping for.
I was not suffering for something that actually happened, nor for the person who she really was (long story: lies etc).
Also to understand that pain is natural, but suffering beyond that is partially a choice (I know it sounds cheesy, but makes sense to me).
So the strength to get out of where you are is in you, really, of course the fun part is to find the circumstances, the strength and sometimes the right people to get you through it.
I know it may be just a small detail in the vast ocean of what you are going through right now, but I wanted to share that little piece of realization that helped me a lot.
Thanks for sharing it, and I hope that the comments and input here help to get you some clarity :) bro hug
[+] [-] DanBC|11 years ago|reply
2) many people are not good at listening. You can find free listeners, some of whom hae training. Or you could pay for registered qualified therapists. BACP is one espected registrarion. Sessions should cost less than £50 per hour, although it's easy to spend more than that.
3) do a web search for Location and "social groups" - this should return a lon list of activities you can get involved in tha will introduce you to more people.
Depression and suicidal thing is treatable. Change is possible. But it's important to remember that depression can be a fatal illness, and can shorten a person's life. This isn't just through completed suicide, but through poor health caused by self neglect.
[+] [-] london1988|11 years ago|reply
I've gone and registered at my GP and have kicked off this process. I didn't consider that the help I need would be from a range of clinicians, so will need to go and do some research on this.
I'm hoping through a referral I'll be able to setup a recurring session with a therapist.
"It's important to remember that depression can be a fatal illness, and can shorten a person's life. This isn't just through completed suicide, but through poor health caused by self neglect"
This really hits me hard. In an effort to positively move forward I decided just after the breakup that I wanted to lose a stone (14 pounds). -18 pounds later I'm feeling much better but for the last few evenings I've completely been off food.. "poor health caused by self neglect" Is something that I need to be very aware of. Thanks for highlighting it.
[+] [-] dbbolton|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moron4hire|11 years ago|reply
I try very hard to not make big, life-changing decisions when I'm happy and energetic, because it's usually jumping (if you'll excuse the pun) feet first into commitments that I'm not going to be able to keep when I go back to normal, level attitude--or even worse--my low periods, when failing at my commitments is not only a foregone conclusion, but I know it, and it makes me feel worse.
I can't tell you how many times I've resolved "this time, I'm going to ride my bike every day" or "this time, I'm going to work a normal schedule and not procrastinate". Yes, it's about willpower, but willpower is a function of energy. No energy, no willpower.
That's one of the insidious things about depression as a disease: it works to keep itself in place. Depression (saps|is-caused-by-a-sap-of) energy. It's like a lead blanket, holding you down in the chair, keeping you from the exercise and healthful food and water and sunlight you need to get out of it. I know it's not an animate object, but it helps me to think of it as so. I won't let "it" consume me, "it" win.
[+] [-] grahamel|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bbarn|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomorgan|11 years ago|reply
The rest of this: well, take it or leave it.
Sounds like you've managed to coincide two bad things in one go: a bad place in your career, and a bad place in your relationship. You've ended up with a double-whammy, so it's hit you hard.
From (limited) experience, I'd say let the relationship thing sort itself out. I know how it feels now: and it'll take 6 months before you wake up and go through the day, and then realise that you didn't think about it all day. That's when you know you're over it. Until then, just accept it. There are no shortcuts.
Meanwhile, focus on the job. It's the thing you CAN change. If you don't like it, change it. Maybe, even if it's "ok"... change it anyway. You need something that will distract, excite and occupy you for the next 6 months.
That's what I did anyway (also from the UK, also sporting a beard and feeding a cat). Change the career if you need to, because it's easier. Go and do something that makes you happy, for short-term (and long-term) happiness. The rest will sort itself out.
just my 2p
[+] [-] london1988|11 years ago|reply
The double-whammy is certainly a good way of putting it. The new job (literally the next working day after the breakup) was specifically tailored on my previous shared vision. So even if it was the best job in the world it was going to be an uphill battle.
The job is "ok". Its good money, the idea and product is not based on fiction. I'm uncertain if its just my outlook on the job at the moment or the job itself. Either way, I take on board your sentiment of it being the one thing I CAN change. Maybe when I'm a little further down the line I'll consider something not solely based on the money?
"There are no shortcuts." Really valid right now. I thought I could muscle my way through this but I can't.
Thanks again.
[+] [-] rwhitman|11 years ago|reply
Even if you weren't suicidal a psychologist is a great place to air your grievances without judgment. Well worth it.
[+] [-] london1988|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nursie|11 years ago|reply
2. So you're in one of the world's most vibrant cities, you've got house-deposit kinda money saved, you're single and depressed. GTFO and travel. Go backpacking somewhere for a few months. If you're young enough (under 30) then get yourself a one-year visa for Australia and spend a few months travelling the east coast, staying at hostels, sunbathing, getting outside, meeting people (and if you're over 30 then do the same, you just might not be able to stay more than 3 months!). Seriously, you can't help it. I'm an expert at not meeting anyone, and even I didn't manage that on that trail.
Then, when you decide to come back to London, if you decide to come back to London, you'll have a different perspective on life, and realise this is just one city, a pretty grey one that constricts life in all sorts of ways. and she was just one woman, and there's a whole frickin' world out there waiting to be lived in. Fuck Suicide.
[+] [-] london1988|11 years ago|reply
Thankfully I'm under 30 so wouldn't get kicked out of Australia after 3 months (why that restriction is in place seems ludicrous). I've considered travelling but worry that presently that would be escaping my issues. When the time is right though the east coast of Australia sounds pretty awesome. I had never considered it as a location to get lost in so will jot it down. :+1:.
"There's a whole frickin' world out there waiting to be lived in. Fuck Suicide." Made me smile.
Thanks again.
[+] [-] steveklabnik|11 years ago|reply
Please, please, _please_ go see an actual mental health professional. They have the training and experience to help you in this situation. Random foreign denizens probably do not, and even if they do, this isn't the right place to be able to help.
I didn't do it for a very long time due to social stigmas around mental issues. I was never suicidal, but seriously. Please do it.
I should also mention that it can take a few tries to find someone who you're comfortable with.
[+] [-] comrh|11 years ago|reply
1) You are important.
2) You deserve to not have to feel this way.
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mrcwinn|11 years ago|reply
I also became very sensitive, both to how people interacted with me, but even to physical things. I remember bumping my shoulder into a door one time and screaming, "OW!" It couldn't have really hurt - my shoulder is plenty strong - I think I just wanted attention. It was a natural overreaction. I would get upset about things that, in retrospect, shouldn't have really bothered me.
I also tended to wake up at 4am, filled with anxiety. I would tell myself to work, but really I would just waste time until morning came. You can't really be productive or focused at 4am.
I never felt sad or happy. I just felt nothing much at all. I was completely unaware of this at the time, of course. Other people around me were very aware of it.
My mood really disabled me, which only made things worse.
I was hesitant and too embarrassed to seek medical help, so instead I privately got a hold of some over the counter treatments: specifically 5-HTP supplements and St. John's Wort, if I recall. Although in retrospect I'm positive it was placebo effect, the instant I took these pills, I felt the fog lift over me. I physically felt something happened to me. I'll never forget it.
Really I think I just felt the relief of turning a corner, of taking some kind of action. I'm a naturally positive person who has childhood experience helping myself out of things, so maybe I was built better to deal with it. In that case, despite my success, I absolutely encourage you to seek medical help. It's no big deal. Don't sweat it. Just take a small step.
Life is short and it is amazing. Not "iPhone amazing" - but truly, absolutely amazing. It's a gift and we have a responsibility to put good things back into the world in return. You never know what good things are around the corner - but even more importantly, you can ACT to influence your life and what happens in it. Don't stress about any one thing, and make sure you are treating others well (by taking care of yourself).
Take care of yourself. You deserve to feel better.
[+] [-] london1988|11 years ago|reply
"Don't stress about any one thing, and make sure you are treating others well (by taking care of yourself)."
I'll keep that one close.
p.s I've registered and spoken to my GP and will be taking counselling as soon as I can.
[+] [-] mrec|11 years ago|reply
I'm sure you mean well. But if there's a more efficient way to alienate someone than presenting the direct opposite of their experience as if it were some great objective Truth, I can't imagine what it is.
[+] [-] pistle|11 years ago|reply
For every group of 1, 100, 1 million people who you think see you as a failure, there are billions of others who will only know you as a whoever you are the first time they see you.
Internally, reconsider any rigid concept of self. Who are you? What do you value? Why do you value that?
You can spend each sublife toiling away to only see it destroyed by external or internal flaws in the design or tooling.
You have to let go of your 'self' to find yourself and that can mean trials and tribulations, but struggle and suffering is the human condition. Happiness comes in various sizes by playing the game with the human condition and having it go better than bad.
Small victories await. You must PLAY to win and play to WIN.
[+] [-] TheSpiceIsLife|11 years ago|reply
Run: Sell / give away / otherwise dispose of everything that anchors you to memories of the past. Archive or delete photos. Move house.
Fight: Physically: If you can drag yourself to it, find someone who teaches MMA and doesn't pull their punches, and doesn't expect you to either (edit: I mean, in a control situation where the training is hard, not like fight club or something). It feels damn good to be beaten up, and to be able to hit someone as hard as you can. Mentally / emotionally: don't kill yourself. Fight it.
Reborn: Just survive the next 6 - 12 months and you will be. I don't think there's anything you can do to make this happen over night. I've worked with some good counsellors and psychologists that have helped along the way. The good ones always say shocking things, for example one psychologist said to me "Look, I don't think being emotive is really that effective for you. Probably what you need to do is drink some cement - that is, harden the fuck up. Or, if you think it will help, drink your own urine. But anyway, clearly sitting around crying about your situation isn't working for you", which, in the context of what was happening, was exactly what I needed to hear. Hearing someone else say "oh, poor you, that must be hard" would have only made things worse. One of the best things a friend said to me was "Go on, kill yourself, you'll at least have achieved more than me." Ha!
My AU$0.02
[+] [-] jason_slack|11 years ago|reply
I can say from experience.
Talk to us. Please. If you need someone to talk to, e-mail me, I'll give you my number and you can even call me collect.
[+] [-] tragic|11 years ago|reply
Reflections on associated issues:
There's a big problem with stigma attached to mental health issues, as is well observed by many. This is true 'in general'. But it can be easier to punish yourself when something like a breakup triggers a serious depressive episode - it feels 'stupid' to be so miserable about something that happens to everybody everywhere. It's just not true. A bad breakup is pretty traumatising. The human brain has innumerable virtues. A built in sense of perspective is not one of them. A qualified professional is not going to judge you for it; sometimes even just an hour with a therapist - just the act of going into the office, even - can puncture the worst of it.
More importantly, sometimes that can't - because some obvious proximate cause for a depressive episode can mask longer-term underlying mental health issues.
Alpha, omega: drag yourself into a doctor's office. All the best.
EDIT: clarification
[+] [-] danso|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gobots|11 years ago|reply
Three years ago I was divorced from my wife, left my birth religion and quit my job. On top of all my issues I was suffering from burnout – I hadn't had a vacation in years. Since I was the religious guy at my job I worked the holidays and was promised make up time. Company policy shifted at some point and we were only allowed to accrue a certain number of days with no rollover – when I quit, I also lost 35+ "make up" vacation days.
I tried getting another job right away, but quit after a month – it was an easy job, but I had lost my ability to work around others. I managed to pick up steady contract work for about a year, but this didn't give me much of a breather.
I also found a girlfriend who kept me distracted from my problems, but that wasn't to last.
Winter is when my depression hits hard, and it kicked in during the second year I was dating this girl. Having zero experience with depressed people, she couldn't handle it and dumped me. That's when everything I had gone through prior caught up to me. Long story short – I got on medication and started therapy which helped a bit, but the suicidal thoughts and planning continued.
I don't remember exact time lines, but I think it was around 8 months ago that I decided to weigh the pros and cons of living by making a list. I decided not to off myself yet, and that instead I would try to focus on improving myself.
I am a homeschooled community college drop out. I grew up in a trailer and taught myself how to program when I was a child by making video games. I'm also a very creative person who writes, draws, composes music, etc. I started thinking about these things after making the suicide list, and realized that I had lost my way. I've never been one to care about money, but around a decade ago I was on welfare and living in the middle of nowhere. I managed to pull myself out of poverty by learning PHP and getting a job in Chicago. That was my salvation but also nearly my ruination. I had lost my creativity and life was all about work – I was making $96,000 a year at my full time job, plus keeping clients on the side.
In the last year I have been able to land another six figure job and multiple contracts with pretty big clients, but everything has consistently fallen through. I collapse a few months in, get panic attacks and feel suicidal again... so I had to take a different approach.
My current situation is this – I take on 3 to 6 month short term contracts, live on a shoestring budget (no cellphone, no car payment, nothing but the bare essentials), and then I self educate and work on personal projects for 3 to 4 months solid.
By doing this I have been able to learn 4 different game engines, 2 programming languages and finger pick on the guitar. Being raised as a homeschooled Jehovah's Witness left me with knowledge gaps, so I have also spent large amounts of time educating myself about science (genetics, biology, cosmology) and religion (I've read most of Dawkins, Hitchens and Sagan).
My goals have completely shifted over the last several months. For the first time in a very very long time I'm not thinking about suicide on a daily / weekly basis. I have put all of my creative energy into creating video games, and though I may never make a hit game or be a great musician or a scientist, these things are giving me exponentially more pleasure than working a full time job, spending 8 to 10 hours a day with people I don't love, playing office politics, supporting a platform I don't care about and just waiting for the weekend so I can sleep.
[+] [-] w0rd-driven|11 years ago|reply
I think your key points help me in my spells as well: stay busy. To a degree I mask thoughts by simply overloading my brain enough that I simply can't think about them. It works and honestly I'm not one to care for what is considered healthy. At some point in my life I realized it's more important to find whatever works than to worry if it's useful or long term. I'm not in a pit of despair any more and frankly I don't care how I get out any more. At least not when the pit gets really big or deep like it desperately keeps trying to do.
I'm glad you found what works for you but I don't believe you have to take the minimalist approach you did. I'm glad it's working but we should strive to be at the top of our game. It does feel like a house of cards willing to topple at any moment but if you're anything like me, 99.9% of the obstacles you faced were entirely self-inflicted. I want success but it feels so awkward when I'm achieving it seemingly without any effort that I have to dick it up somehow to feel "normal" if that makes sense.
[+] [-] igravious|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Fuxy|11 years ago|reply
He has to become more selfish and find a calling that doesn't involve any other people.
He dedicated his entire life purpose to raising a family with his girlfriend, admirable but that's a huge goal dependent on just one person.
Find something that motivates you, that make life wort living.
Making money is not a goal/life purpose it's a means to an end. It's up to you to determine what that end is.
If you really want to start a family you have to realize it doesn't necessarily have to be with that girl there's always others.
Don't know if this advice is right for him right now i haven't been depressed since i was a teenager I'm just a natural selfish loaner however realizing that my goal in life shouldn't depend on other people helped me a lot.
I mean I would like to have a girlfriend and kids some day however if that never happens i won't be bothered by it I got so many other things i want to do.
[+] [-] agumonkey|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ageofwant|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bayesianhorse|11 years ago|reply
Another part is to objectify suicidal thoughts. They are both extremely real, but caused by the disease and distorting reality. It's very easy to find reasons for suicidal thoughts, but they are hardly ever "true".
[+] [-] weland|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elwell|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] septerr|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jorgeleo|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cupofjoakim|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yulaow|11 years ago|reply
I am not ok yet, I still can't sleep well, I still feel paralyzed some days, I still have uncontrollable fears, but I am really making improvements and I have someone who supports me and shows me the way.
Find a psychotherapist now.
[+] [-] wozmirek|11 years ago|reply
Take a break, as others suggested, but with people. Maybe try changing your environment? I'm not a programmer, but close (well, a copywriter/marketer with humanities background) and noticed that you devs are different when it comes to emotions that other people. Maybe change your environment for a bit?
Working out is a good idea, though I'm not sure about the gym - it's quite solitary anyway! What helped me once was kendo. Roaring for two hours straight, being (gently) commanded by the sensei, lots of sweat and muscle pain made me think differently.
All in all - you can do it! Come back here in a few months and tell us how it turned out!
[+] [-] Loque|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cupofjoakim|11 years ago|reply
As a first step I'd recommend you to get a dog though, the condition less love you get from those fellas are what took me up from my depression. Also, it gives you something to do. Activation is important.
[+] [-] danielweber|11 years ago|reply
Unfortunately humans are incredibly hard-wired to seek happiness in other people. Even the well-balanced professionals who don't care about money indicate that the #1 thing they desire is the admiration of their colleagues. Most hackers like us definitely fit in that mold.
I don't have any solutions to that. Maybe if I identify the problem someone else can come up with an answer. Dunno.
EDIT: We should make sure admiration is not a zero-sum game. Don't tell people on HN that there are only a certain number of ways to succeed. I've probably violated this rule many times, like complaining about people making yet another framework, which forks my attention.
[+] [-] imdsm|11 years ago|reply
Do it, OP.
[+] [-] norswap|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lilsunnybee|11 years ago|reply
But one thing no one mentioned, that i'm a bit surprised about because you mention falling asleep during work, waking up not feeling refreshed, etc. is a sleep study. It's very very possible you might have a sleep disorder. You sound very much like i did in the early stages of my own sleep disorder, before my life completely fell apart, before multiple suicide attempts, before becoming homeless, before moving back home with my parents, before 9 years after symptoms first started, with health insurance again due to ACA in the US i finally saw a competent doctor and got properly evaluated, and found out i had developed narcolepsy.
Any number of other sleep disorders could cause your symptoms too, of depression and anxiety, as well as the other issues, with conditions like sleep apnea being the most common.
Please please speak to your GP and get a sleep study done, if you haven't had one done already. It's definitely worth doing before you make any final decisions, and it just might save your life.
[+] [-] skittles|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ch39sii|11 years ago|reply
Let me tell you something, earlier this year I also saw the end of a relationship I thought was with my partner in life and out of the sudden turns out it was completely not, dreams and plans of many many years shattered in a matter of 2 months.
The effect it had not only was emotional, physical (I was pretty much not eating, not sleeping for many weeks) even showed in the code I write, bugs, crappy code, low productivity. I look back at the commit graphs and there is a HUGE drop during those days, and while that pain still hurts sometimes, I've slowly have been coming out of that 'hole' I was in and what really helped me to get through it was to understand that:
I was suffering because of the idealization I made of the other person and the future I was hoping for. I was not suffering for something that actually happened, nor for the person who she really was (long story: lies etc).
Also to understand that pain is natural, but suffering beyond that is partially a choice (I know it sounds cheesy, but makes sense to me).
So the strength to get out of where you are is in you, really, of course the fun part is to find the circumstances, the strength and sometimes the right people to get you through it.
I know it may be just a small detail in the vast ocean of what you are going through right now, but I wanted to share that little piece of realization that helped me a lot. Thanks for sharing it, and I hope that the comments and input here help to get you some clarity :) bro hug
[+] [-] tim333|11 years ago|reply
Go backpack the world a bit - beaches trekking etc. Amazing how stuff like that can change your mood.
Drugs - go to your GP - he'll give you pills - may work.
Check out Seligman / CBT. Helped me. See http://www.amazon.co.uk/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp...