"Your margin is my opportunity" is probably my favorite Bezosism. Given that perspective and Apple's very cushy margins, I expected Amazon not to approach the market with an expensive phone packed with new features, but to approach the market from the bottom, with a good phone that is free or nearly free. The problem, of course, is that Google seems to have that segment wrapped up.
Instead of competing with the iPhone, this seems to more targeted at Android -- only priced uncompetitively.
The features themselves seem slightly gimmicky. I tend not to want to move my phone physically as a way to interact with apps. (Doing that figure "8" when my GPS goes out for some reason is incredibly awkward.) Searching via photos is awesome, but the only use case it seems well suited for is shopping. The built-in Genius Bar is cool, but it seems targeted toward smartphone noobs, which is oddly coupled with features targeted to smartphone pros.
If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, this will probably be a novelty, like Windows Phone, for a while to come.
iTunes: Amazon Prime Streaming TV + now music, Google Play
iPhone: Kindle Fire Phone, Nexus 4
I think they're all playing for the same territory. The big difference seems to be that Apple really only sells the technology. Google sells the technology so that they can sell advertising for third party products. Amazon has the only complete end to end solution where they sell you the products and advertise for their own "other stuff" they sell. IMHO Amazon is going to be the big winner in the long run. Whether or not that's good for all of us is yet to be determined.
>If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, this will probably be a novelty, like Windows Phone, for a while to come.
Agreed. I'm having trouble visualizing how it moves from being novelty to being ubiquitous. I purchased one of the original Kindles back when it was a novelty, but I understand why it became the dominant eInk device since it was a novelty item with little to no competition. For the Fire, it's a novelty with stiff competition from the beginning.
As someone who rarely shops on Amazon and doesn't want a Prime subscription, why would I chose this phone?
Maybe the answer is Amazon doesn't expect this product to take off fast. Maybe it's a much longer term play initially targeted just to those already comfortably engaged in its ecosystem.
Prime customers are Amazon's highest spending customers. They, according to this report[1], spend more than 2x what non-Prime customers spend - $1340 / year. Prime customers aren't likely to be swayed by a low-cost, budget phone. So it makes sense for them to tie their premium Fire Phone to this segment of their customer base.
This also doesn't mean they can't do a budget phone later.
I agree that the dynamic perspective and angle detection just seems like a gimmick.
The 2 serious uses for it I can see are:
* Scrolling through things by tilting the phone. Personally I think this seems like a useful feature.
* Playing certain mobile games.
For general use, I don't think it'd be that helpful or aesthetically appealing other than "oh that looks cool". I don't really see the purpose of it when looking at maps, or especially looking at your home screen... In fact I imagine many people may find it annoying in many of the phone views.
My suspicion is that the pricing is to intentionally depress sales initially while they work out supporting a phone at scale, since this is a new segment for them.
Maybe the reason amazon prices that way, is that it's really expensive ?
It seems that the most expensive thing here would be the mayday service. And maybe it's the killer feature here?
One big reason why seniors buy the iphone is that there are classes in the apple store which help them learn to use the device and overcome their fear of tech.So mayday could work well for that segment.
Also, many tech people hate coming home after work and doing tech support for their family. They could have a strong influence on their family members phone purchase decision.
And i'm sure amazon has got data from their mayday on tablet to estimate the value of mayday.
> I expected Amazon not to approach the market with an expensive phone packed with new features, but to approach the market from the bottom, with a good phone that is free or nearly free.
It'd make sense to price the phone high at release, both to maximize revenues and establish the phone as expensive ('good' in consumer's minds), and then slowly mark the price down while your supply chain ramps up.
I think Amazon are taking the "learn as you go down market" approach exemplified by Tesla.
This is the pilot model, which enables Amazon to earn revenue fast and capture early adopter surplus. We'll soon see a cheaper model with the more lavish and underused features trimmed, and other features much improved thanks to real world testing of the first model.
Why does this seem to be targeted at Android? If anything, I would say the price differential between this and good android phones reflects that it might be more an iphone competitor if anything, and so it seems to be more targeted at Apple.
Are the very low margin phone customers desirable media customers?
When I look at my low margin phone and service and almost non existent media consumption (nothing beyond shared cable or free streaming), I sort of doubt it.
It might be a flagship device to attract attention (gimmicky new features for differentiation) and pave the way for lower cost phones. Mayday is a great strategy too, I've always wondered why so few companies go after the tech-illiterate market.
> The problem, of course, is that Google seems to have that segment wrapped up.
No, there's still place for a great, cheap phone that's aimed at the consumer market rather than the geeks or the developers who usually buy Nexus devices.
Then again, it could be more about software and services than just hardware. They've offered a competent competitor to high end smartphones to be sure, but they've also extended and bolstered the Amazon ecosystem with Firefly. I don't think it would share the same fate as Windows Phone, because it is still largely an Android phone and switching from samsung android to Fire won't be as costly. At the same time, it has some interesting features to compete with Apple as well. Windows Phone models never had that much differentiation, and on top of that. its metro UI was a big change for smartphone users that didn't gain traction.
I agree. At a pure product level this isn't competitive with an iPhone. It's exclusive to ATT and apparently only available in the US but still priced to compete with the iPhone. They should have done something with sponsored data or subsidized it heavily for Prime customers, but as it stands this isn't a compelling offering in the market.
It depends on what they use the movements for. If it allows me to navigate more things with a single hand without me looking like a white man trying to boogy down, then I'm all for it.
edit: plus, if they really have strong kindle/amazon streaming, they could be looking to try and take some of hulu/netflix's thunder.
Sounds like this phone does a good job of solving Amazon's problem of getting customers to buy more from them. I don't see how it makes my life any easier though.
3D? Ok, that is really cool. 2D hasn't really been a limiting factor for me though.
One-handed navigation and autoscrolling? Wow, that just sounds terrible. I'm trying to read and my kid bumps my arm. Now where am I on the page? And how do I quickly get back to where I was?
Mayday seems nice but then if the phone is that intuitive I can't see needing it much. Loss leader for them I guess.
Tangle-free premium headset. Finally, a feature I would pay money for. Seriously. Do they sell these separately? Because I want.
The compelling feature on this phone everyone's missing:
Let's say you have to browse through a bunch of stuff on your phone. The very moment you start doing this, you have a problem: There's a #%&! finger covering up the screen now!
The idea behind this phone is simple: All browsing of information is done by tilting the screen, leaving the display completely unobstructed... sure, other phones have tried to do this before. However, they were shit, because they didn't involve 4 years of AI research to develop the world's most sophisticated head positioning system ever, like Amazon apparently did. This is probably the only way to make the tilting accurate enough to not be annoying.
Only a company run by a fantically focused guy could put that much R&D towards such a specific and non-obvious feature.
That said, until I can hold the device in my hand and verify that this "tilt to browse information" is 100.00% perfectly implemented, this phone can still end up being a failure, like all similar devices that came before it.
From my post in another thread: It's $199 with a 2 year contract with AT&T, meaning it's a $649 phone (now confirmed). It's priced with other 'premium' phones like the iPhone 5S and the Galaxy S5 (both $199 with a 2 year contract, $649 off contract at AT&T). Unfortunately, Amazon's other products like the Kindle Fire are anything but premium hardware and software-wise. On the software side this is partially due to the Amazon-first mentality for all media and partially due to the extremely clunky Amazon UI and app store. Then again, I wouldn't consider Samsung a 'premium' phone software-wise either due to my poor experience with the Galaxy S4's clunky setup after coming form 'pure' Android. It's still far better than the Kindle Fire, though.
I am always a little skeptical about gestures that involve physically moving or tilting or swivelling the phone.
Maybe it works well for others but I find it getting very much in the way when I use my phone in bed, or lying around on the couch, or walking even.
On my iPhone 5, I have the screen rotation locked for about 99% of the time.
Does anyone know what actual mail and calendaring system this thing even uses? What about maps? All the other stuff aside, texting, mail, calendar, and maps cover about 80% of most people's phone use; if those pieces stink, it's going to be a problem, and I see absolutely no mention of where they're getting map data in particular.
Amazon can't make folks do anything. So they have to concentrate on what makes money. They can sell features to developers as ways to make more money, thus making their phone more desirable. Those are the creative folks anyway. So Amazon enables them, and makes a buck too.
So, essentially, a high end Android phone, only with Amazon's ecosystem rather than Google's.
As others have mentioned, the price seems to be difficult to swallow. They'll be fighting against Samsung's flagship Android device and the iPhone.
What sells the Amazon phone at that price? I don't think 3d tilting gimmicks will.
Its primary differentiator versus other Android phones is that Amazon controls the ecosystem for this device, rather than Google, and while that will appeal to some, it will be a negative for others, and a non-factor to many.
I think the price needs to drop for this to be a real competitor, but I certainly am glad to see Amazon entering the game even if the initial offering doesn't seem to be a home run. More competition against Samsung and Apple is good.
So hang on....are you telling me that $199 is the cheapest price WITH A CONTRACT??
Obviously things are different in the US,but in UK it's almost unfathomable to be paying anything for the phone if you are getting a contract. Sometimes the latest iphone will have an upfront cost of 29 pounds, but it's rare.
It is worth mentioning that they are including a year of prime which is worth $99 and a $10 credit on their store so the actual price compared to say an iPhone is $90.
That's normal in the US. The difference here is that there is no specific price point you have to get on - I've been moving up and down with how much I pay each month on my contract, which I couldn't do in Australia. The contract termination fees are also much lower, and if you're on family plans the month to month costs can go down drastically.
> in UK it's almost unfathomable to be paying anything for the phone if you are getting a contract. Sometimes the latest iphone will have an upfront cost of 29 pounds, but it's rare.
My observation is that the telcos will often offer the more expensive phones on higher tariffs, and that it's cheaper over 12/24 months to buy a phone off-contract, and then get the cheapest SIM-only plan for your needs.
My two cents: First, I'm actually surprised as to how much they are selling the dynamic perspective, and I think I'm actually more interested in how well firefly works. Dynamic perspective may be very "cool", but I'm not convinced it's not just another fad --- will it change the way I work with my device? Will it empower people? I don't see it as a transformative technology, and it's almost as gimmicky as (if not as gimmicky as) some of the extra "features" you get when you buy a galaxy S phone.
Firefly has a chance though. I've spent some time with google goggles before, and I wasn't super impressed (have they updated it much recently?) --- on the other hand, I've had some success with Amazon's Flow app, in which you point your camera towards a product (in a store, for example), and it tells you the Amazon price for it. Will Firefly work well enough for people to rely on it on the host of use-cases that Amazon gave in its presentation?
Other quick thoughts: Amazon claims some great battery life on the page, but didn't mention it at all in their presentation today. Also, it's kind of weird to think I would have 6 cameras on me at any point in time. Are those cameras accessible to developers, beyond their dynamic display apk? Lastly, how will this compare with google's "Project Tango" efforts?
So who's the actual manufacturer? I had read at one point that Google has locked up most major cell manufacturers so they are prevented from offering handsets with non-Google-integrated Android. That and the somewhat lackluster screen leads me to believe it's a no-name OEM.
The trojan feature for Amazon is the eye-tracking. Tracking a user's gaze while they are shopping is the ultimate way to increase sales, and this extends to eye-tracking while a user is browsing. I imagine that even Google would want the information that Amazon is going to generate.
"Great phone for reading?" If they really cared about the reading experience, they would have put an AMOLED screen on it. AMOLED screens are far superior for night-time reading, which is when most people do their reading.
This phone will find a market amongst amazon addicts. While not bleeding edge, specs are somewhat solid[0].
However what set Kindle Fire apart from competition and allowed it to gain foothold in the market was competitive pricing, I see none of that here. Amazon is obviously making a bet that software they are shipping with the phone will be a killer feature that will overcome the shortcomings, I do not think broader market will agree.
[0] Until you look at the price and AT&T only lock in, considering that, specs are mediocre at best.
Amazon is obviously making a bet that software they are shipping with the phone will be a killer feature, I do not think broader market will agree.
If the barriers to get users to spend money are lower on Amazon's phone, then this is exactly the right move to capture developer and content producer mindshare for their ecosystem!
I really wish Amazon would just make all of their obviously Android devices into actual, Google-approved Android devices. Google Apps and all. I get that they want their own market for apps, etc. But yuck.
Also, I wish things like Amazon Movies would just stinkin work on Android devices, like a normal app. I mean, come on... I have like 6 Android devices, 1 Kindle Fire, 1 TiVo, and 1 Roku. Why are the 6 Android devices left behind? Ug.
Maybe someone can enlighten me; but why does AT&T seem like a popular launch partner with new mobile handsets?
The only reasons I can come up with are a) money (AT&T taking a smaller cut of subsidies/paying the manufacturer more for the device) and b) "portability" between the US provider and International providers.
Are there any other reasons? Or is it really that simple?
[+] [-] nostromo|11 years ago|reply
"Your margin is my opportunity" is probably my favorite Bezosism. Given that perspective and Apple's very cushy margins, I expected Amazon not to approach the market with an expensive phone packed with new features, but to approach the market from the bottom, with a good phone that is free or nearly free. The problem, of course, is that Google seems to have that segment wrapped up.
Instead of competing with the iPhone, this seems to more targeted at Android -- only priced uncompetitively.
The features themselves seem slightly gimmicky. I tend not to want to move my phone physically as a way to interact with apps. (Doing that figure "8" when my GPS goes out for some reason is incredibly awkward.) Searching via photos is awesome, but the only use case it seems well suited for is shopping. The built-in Genius Bar is cool, but it seems targeted toward smartphone noobs, which is oddly coupled with features targeted to smartphone pros.
If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, this will probably be a novelty, like Windows Phone, for a while to come.
[+] [-] Consultant32452|11 years ago|reply
iPad: Kindle Fire, Nexus 7
Apple TV: Kindle Fire TV, Chromecast
iTunes: Amazon Prime Streaming TV + now music, Google Play
iPhone: Kindle Fire Phone, Nexus 4
I think they're all playing for the same territory. The big difference seems to be that Apple really only sells the technology. Google sells the technology so that they can sell advertising for third party products. Amazon has the only complete end to end solution where they sell you the products and advertise for their own "other stuff" they sell. IMHO Amazon is going to be the big winner in the long run. Whether or not that's good for all of us is yet to be determined.
[+] [-] mcphilip|11 years ago|reply
Agreed. I'm having trouble visualizing how it moves from being novelty to being ubiquitous. I purchased one of the original Kindles back when it was a novelty, but I understand why it became the dominant eInk device since it was a novelty item with little to no competition. For the Fire, it's a novelty with stiff competition from the beginning.
As someone who rarely shops on Amazon and doesn't want a Prime subscription, why would I chose this phone?
Maybe the answer is Amazon doesn't expect this product to take off fast. Maybe it's a much longer term play initially targeted just to those already comfortably engaged in its ecosystem.
[+] [-] localhost|11 years ago|reply
This also doesn't mean they can't do a budget phone later.
[1] http://bgr.com/2013/12/17/amazon-prime-spending-study-cirp/
[+] [-] meowface|11 years ago|reply
The 2 serious uses for it I can see are:
* Scrolling through things by tilting the phone. Personally I think this seems like a useful feature.
* Playing certain mobile games.
For general use, I don't think it'd be that helpful or aesthetically appealing other than "oh that looks cool". I don't really see the purpose of it when looking at maps, or especially looking at your home screen... In fact I imagine many people may find it annoying in many of the phone views.
[+] [-] mst|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_watcher|11 years ago|reply
So it's useful for the single thing Amazon is most interested in encouraging.
[+] [-] hershel|11 years ago|reply
It seems that the most expensive thing here would be the mayday service. And maybe it's the killer feature here?
One big reason why seniors buy the iphone is that there are classes in the apple store which help them learn to use the device and overcome their fear of tech.So mayday could work well for that segment.
Also, many tech people hate coming home after work and doing tech support for their family. They could have a strong influence on their family members phone purchase decision.
And i'm sure amazon has got data from their mayday on tablet to estimate the value of mayday.
[+] [-] jldugger|11 years ago|reply
It'd make sense to price the phone high at release, both to maximize revenues and establish the phone as expensive ('good' in consumer's minds), and then slowly mark the price down while your supply chain ramps up.
[+] [-] Pitarou|11 years ago|reply
This is the pilot model, which enables Amazon to earn revenue fast and capture early adopter surplus. We'll soon see a cheaper model with the more lavish and underused features trimmed, and other features much improved thanks to real world testing of the first model.
[+] [-] hrjet|11 years ago|reply
Is that some sort of recognized gesture on your phone, or is it a way to calibrate a sensor?
Typically, the figure 8 is used to calibrate the magnetometer, but I can't see how it would help GPS.
[+] [-] asafira|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jisaacks|11 years ago|reply
If I was bitten by a snake, spider, etc. I'd love to be able to snap a picture to quickly identify it and know whether or not to rush to the ER.
[+] [-] maxerickson|11 years ago|reply
When I look at my low margin phone and service and almost non existent media consumption (nothing beyond shared cable or free streaming), I sort of doubt it.
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jrells|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kudu|11 years ago|reply
No, there's still place for a great, cheap phone that's aimed at the consumer market rather than the geeks or the developers who usually buy Nexus devices.
[+] [-] gdilla|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IBM|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mreiland|11 years ago|reply
edit: plus, if they really have strong kindle/amazon streaming, they could be looking to try and take some of hulu/netflix's thunder.
[+] [-] Zelphyr|11 years ago|reply
3D? Ok, that is really cool. 2D hasn't really been a limiting factor for me though.
One-handed navigation and autoscrolling? Wow, that just sounds terrible. I'm trying to read and my kid bumps my arm. Now where am I on the page? And how do I quickly get back to where I was?
Mayday seems nice but then if the phone is that intuitive I can't see needing it much. Loss leader for them I guess.
Tangle-free premium headset. Finally, a feature I would pay money for. Seriously. Do they sell these separately? Because I want.
[+] [-] drcode|11 years ago|reply
Let's say you have to browse through a bunch of stuff on your phone. The very moment you start doing this, you have a problem: There's a #%&! finger covering up the screen now!
The idea behind this phone is simple: All browsing of information is done by tilting the screen, leaving the display completely unobstructed... sure, other phones have tried to do this before. However, they were shit, because they didn't involve 4 years of AI research to develop the world's most sophisticated head positioning system ever, like Amazon apparently did. This is probably the only way to make the tilting accurate enough to not be annoying.
Only a company run by a fantically focused guy could put that much R&D towards such a specific and non-obvious feature.
That said, until I can hold the device in my hand and verify that this "tilt to browse information" is 100.00% perfectly implemented, this phone can still end up being a failure, like all similar devices that came before it.
[+] [-] JohnTHaller|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ultimoo|11 years ago|reply
Maybe it works well for others but I find it getting very much in the way when I use my phone in bed, or lying around on the couch, or walking even. On my iPhone 5, I have the screen rotation locked for about 99% of the time.
[+] [-] morsch|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gecko|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chippy|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cnst|11 years ago|reply
Google Nexus 5 is already huge, but it still weighs only 130g, and at least it has 1920x1080 resolution and only costs 349$.
For 649$, I might as well buy iPhone 5s, which only weighs 112g. Yet it probably has the exact same battery life, due to the more efficient software!
Keep in mind, both Nexus 5 and iPhone 5s are almost a year old now, and this thing is a brand new platform with such unappealing specs? Gimme a break!
[+] [-] Holbein|11 years ago|reply
How sad. A phone is the most intimate piece of technology we have, and all Amazon can think about making it a machine of consumption.
I wish they would have focused more enabling people to create things. You know, help them be active. Help change the world.
There's just a slight hint here that Amazon considers its users more like mindless money-spending media consuming drones.
A new device very rarely push the human race forward. The Kindle Phone is clearly no such device.
[+] [-] JoeAltmaier|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JeremyNT|11 years ago|reply
As others have mentioned, the price seems to be difficult to swallow. They'll be fighting against Samsung's flagship Android device and the iPhone.
What sells the Amazon phone at that price? I don't think 3d tilting gimmicks will.
Its primary differentiator versus other Android phones is that Amazon controls the ecosystem for this device, rather than Google, and while that will appeal to some, it will be a negative for others, and a non-factor to many.
I think the price needs to drop for this to be a real competitor, but I certainly am glad to see Amazon entering the game even if the initial offering doesn't seem to be a home run. More competition against Samsung and Apple is good.
[+] [-] mmanfrin|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gambiting|11 years ago|reply
Obviously things are different in the US,but in UK it's almost unfathomable to be paying anything for the phone if you are getting a contract. Sometimes the latest iphone will have an upfront cost of 29 pounds, but it's rare.
[+] [-] smallegan|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mech4bg|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ValentineC|11 years ago|reply
My observation is that the telcos will often offer the more expensive phones on higher tariffs, and that it's cheaper over 12/24 months to buy a phone off-contract, and then get the cheapest SIM-only plan for your needs.
[+] [-] mootothemax|11 years ago|reply
Here's EE's page for a 16GB iPhone 5s. Prices range from 9.99 to 149.99 depending on the plan chosen:
http://shop.ee.co.uk/mobile-phones/pay-monthly/iphone-5s-16g...
Look at the next model up, 32GB, and the up-front cost increases significantly:
http://shop.ee.co.uk/mobile-phones/pay-monthly/iphone-5s-32g...
[+] [-] asafira|11 years ago|reply
Firefly has a chance though. I've spent some time with google goggles before, and I wasn't super impressed (have they updated it much recently?) --- on the other hand, I've had some success with Amazon's Flow app, in which you point your camera towards a product (in a store, for example), and it tells you the Amazon price for it. Will Firefly work well enough for people to rely on it on the host of use-cases that Amazon gave in its presentation?
Other quick thoughts: Amazon claims some great battery life on the page, but didn't mention it at all in their presentation today. Also, it's kind of weird to think I would have 6 cameras on me at any point in time. Are those cameras accessible to developers, beyond their dynamic display apk? Lastly, how will this compare with google's "Project Tango" efforts?
[+] [-] fiatmoney|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bobbles|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eclipxe|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boxcardavin|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MikeCapone|11 years ago|reply
Mine's in my pocket when I'm at the store.
[+] [-] m0dest|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bryanlarsen|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TrainedMonkey|11 years ago|reply
However what set Kindle Fire apart from competition and allowed it to gain foothold in the market was competitive pricing, I see none of that here. Amazon is obviously making a bet that software they are shipping with the phone will be a killer feature that will overcome the shortcomings, I do not think broader market will agree.
[0] Until you look at the price and AT&T only lock in, considering that, specs are mediocre at best.
[+] [-] stcredzero|11 years ago|reply
If the barriers to get users to spend money are lower on Amazon's phone, then this is exactly the right move to capture developer and content producer mindshare for their ecosystem!
[+] [-] VikingCoder|11 years ago|reply
I really wish Amazon would just make all of their obviously Android devices into actual, Google-approved Android devices. Google Apps and all. I get that they want their own market for apps, etc. But yuck.
Also, I wish things like Amazon Movies would just stinkin work on Android devices, like a normal app. I mean, come on... I have like 6 Android devices, 1 Kindle Fire, 1 TiVo, and 1 Roku. Why are the 6 Android devices left behind? Ug.
/whine
[+] [-] jrub|11 years ago|reply
The only reasons I can come up with are a) money (AT&T taking a smaller cut of subsidies/paying the manufacturer more for the device) and b) "portability" between the US provider and International providers.
Are there any other reasons? Or is it really that simple?
[+] [-] fixedd|11 years ago|reply