There is a new law here in Brazil since last week [1]: a customer has the right to cancel any subscription of phone, cable TV or internet contracts without talking to a representative, by automatic system. Just press some keys on the phone or fill a form in the company's website and it's done, with confirmation code and fully cancelled in two business days.
If the customer really wants to talk to a representative to cancel the services, the cancellation must be effective immediately.
This being HN no one likes to talk about regulatory solutions, but the silence on this one is startling. Wasn't there a day in the US when companies would be fined for this sort of business practice?
Why can't we go there today? Is it simply the triumph of free-market orthodoxy and a tacit acceptance that to be a consumer today one must subject oneself to this sort of rapaciousness?
I think you're missing the point all together. The only reason a company can behave this way and retain the number of customers who would have otherwise moved elsewhere is because there isn't a free-market. The companies are run as oligopolies. It is government intervention and protection that has caused this problem in the first place which is what most people don't realize.
We're an entrepreneurial community and here is a case of demand.
Why not meet the demand to cut off internet services?
One idea: create a phone service where I call a third-party (you, the entrepreneur) that connects me to the best number to cancel my service. The third party determines if recording the call is legal and records if so, posting the recording online, along with metadata: date, duration, agent name, locale, etc. If recording call is not legal, still post metadata, or also get all parties' permission to record.
Possibly create script through trial and error to counter their script. Can compile data on agents and supervisors names, can follow up with complaints for agents or supervisors to customer service, etc. Can file complaints with elected representatives, FCC, etc... stuff individuals don't have time for but want to.
Another idea: create a web site that takes subscriber information and mails effective letter, registered if necessary, to best address for service provider, using language to set up legal case if necessary.
In both cases, the company could, over time, compile statistics on each service provider's difficulties, giving some accountability. It could also discover their weaknesses and overcome what individuals might not be able to.
You can probably think of many other ways to attack the problem and satisfy the unmet need.
Might not make huge money, but could create great visibility for the entrepreneur. Then again, it might make huge money too, since so many companies play hardball retaining customers.
Or, if you need to cancel your service, make a short phonecall informing them that you are cancelling your service effective immediately and if they attempt to charge your account again, the charge will be contested and complaints will be filed with the Better Business Bureau. Then hang up.
You don't actually need their permission to cancel your service with them at all. You shouldn't be ASKING to cancel your service, you should be TELLING them it's cancelled. If they continue to ask questions, that is their business, hang up on them.
Then again, it might make huge money too, since so many companies play hardball retaining customers.
How would that result in this endeavor making money?
In any case, this is not actually a problem that is difficult to solve. Yes, a phone call like that is utterly infuriating, but you can still cancel your service at the end of it.
Maybe people would pay money to avoid dealing with that. Maybe. But you do it, what, once a year at most?
Ooooh. Like the parking spot auction app? Comcast sets up a company to handle cancellations and charges fees for it. Then, they make their cancellation procedure so arduous that people pay to leave. Then, they sell a subscription to the service.
I love this. The letter route might be the best way to go with some providers. Perhaps the service would require the client to sign a very very limited power of attorney- to disconnect the service- in order to get e.g. Comcast to comply.
I built a tool around FreeSWITCH to do this in some down time between gigs. Trust was the biggest issue; the 3rd party recording the call hears account information, mothers maiden, secret codes and silly things like this. Trust was hard.
Along this line, I'd love it if there was a service that would go around and remove you from all the shit websites out there. Like this, but something that wouldn't eat up days of my time to do it.
I've had lots of trouble with ISPs before. About a decade ago Bulldog Broadband were the first to offer 8Mb service in London, and at a reasonable price, and they oversold so massively their staff couldn't cope.
After a month of no service I called to cancel, and after 45 minutes on hold I gave up. I tried again. And again. Eventually I got through to someone who processed the cancellation. I got an email saying "To confirm your intended cancellation, send an email to cancellation-confirmation@..."
That address didn't exist. The next month they started to charge me for a service I wasn't getting. I had a different ISP by this point. I called and got the money back. They took it again the next month. I called and got the money back. The third month I got a letter saying I hadn't paid for three months, so they took three months money from my card. This time I called and got the money back and demanded they remove me from their systems. Eventually someone said OK.
Six months later I got a demand for 9 months service charges. I called and told them to stuff it. Another six months later they started demanding even more money and making threats. That's when I started the official (UK) complaints procedure. You start by writing a long email setting out your demands, end it by saying "This will also be sent by registered mail, and you have 30 days to resolve this until I report you to the communications ombudsman"
The first response I got to that was a letter saying "We understand you'd like to cancel your service?" So I sent another letter, stating my demands and that no, there had never been a service to cancel, and by the way this is being sent by registered post and you have 18 days before I contact the ombudsman.
I think by the third letter it had been resolved, almost 18 months since I first tried to cancel the account. I had to move house shortly after that though, and I've worried since then that one day they're going to turn around and say "hold on, this guy owes us for ten years of broadband! Let's ruin his credit rating!"
I don't understand why you put up with them charging you so many times. After the second fraudulent charge, I'd just deal with my credit card company directly. Call them up and have the charges reversed. You get your money back and they get punished by their card company for the fraudulent charge.
If more people did this, instead of waiting on hold for hours to fight with customer service for your own money back, the ISP would likely lose their merchant account for their fraudulent activity.
Edit: one other note when cancelling, make sure to take down the date, time and operator name & number during your interactions and note what was said. When I've had trouble with managing accounts, referencing that information strengthened my case dramatically.
I have a Google Doc that I keep for all these notes. While I'm on hold, I open up the doc and get it ready. Be clear that you're taking notes and they'll take the conversation more seriously too.
This reminds of a guy who was on Leno back in the early 2000's. He got a bill from his energy company telling him he owed $0.00 and should pay immediately otherwise his service will get shut off.
He ignores the notice and every couple of weeks, he starts getting threatening letters from the company. When he finally got the shut off service warning letter, he figured he'd better do something.
He sent the company a check for $0.00 and within a week got a notice back thanking him for his payment. He not only brought all the notices, he brought the canceled check and the final thank you letter.
Automated billing systems can be unreal sometimes.
Hey, shared experience here - I also jumped on that bandwagon, and had the same experience when trying to cancel. By the time they acknowledge my numerous and increasingly furious demands, they'd flogged their customer base to Virgin, who insisted I had a deemed contract with them and couldn't cancel.
I went down a completely different route to you, ultimately - I took them to small claims court on the basis that they'd charged me illegally and therefore owed me £600 or so, they failed to show to either mediation or court, I got a default judgment in my favour, they didn't pay it, but they did stop contacting and invoicing me, and my credit score wasn't dented.
Now, British Gas and the electricity meter that ticked over from 99999 to 00000 and resulted in a £15k power bill is another story entirely...
I had internet from our national monopoly for couple of years. Cancelled it in one of their brick and mortar rep centers no problem.
One month passes and new bill shows up, its like they didnt notice me cancelling. Called them, rep confirmed bug in system, said he resolved it and gave me confirmation number. Next month same thing. This time my first words were 'im recording this, state your name again' followed by 'I am holding you personally responsible if your company tries to extort money from me ever again, your name will be on court papers'. Worked like magic, no more phantom bills.
I dont care its just some some poor sob working for the man in call center. Company tried to steal my money and they were part of that system.
I tried both Speakeasy (now MegaPath) DSL and ClearWire WiMax. They sucked. The 10mbps DSLs downstream sometimes reached up to 200kbps. The TCP/IP behind the WiMax would regularly disappear for hours.
For each, I called to get the RMA (to send their gear back), cancel service, and then I immediately canceled the credit card on file.
Both then sent me to collections. I tried contesting the bills. "Sorry, we don't have any record of you canceling." (You'd think possession of the modems would be a clue.)
Neither have sent these bills to a credit rating agency (e.g. Transunion, Experian), so I've ignored them.
I'm in the Bay Area. I recently switched from a Comcast business circuit down to a residential circuit. The Comcast Loyalty Rep was fierce. Insisting I owed them 60 days notice, even though I was in a month to month contract. Told me he had to have me sign paperwork to cancel that was going to take up to a week to e-mail to me. I put up a fight, insisted on a supervisor, whom conveniently was in a Chicago office for another week.
So what did I do? I called 3 other times in a row, got 3 different people, asked to speak to a supervisor. Each said I would have a call back within 24 - 48 business hours.
I did. They called.
I explained all about the paperwork and supervisor out of town and it was literally all made up. All of it.
EDIT: My better side is resisting not calling out the guy who gave me the hassle by posting his name and e-mail.
EDIT 2: I forgot to mention that the rep tried to tell me that the "Terms Of Service" I signed the contract with wasn't valid anymore because it was to old. I asked well I didn't get any new paperwork to agree to the new Terms Of Service. His reply was that paying my bill every month was agreement enough, I didn't need to be told about changes. Doesn't make any sense.
Here in the Netherlands the situation got significantly better after a famous comedian (Youp van 't Hek) went completely public with the misery that ensued after calling t-mobile to get a problem fixed with his sons iPhone.
(http://www.nrcnext.nl/blog/2010/10/25/youp-vant-hek-brengt-t...)
T-mobile found themselves suddenly completely on the defensive in various TV-shows. They apologized profusely. It was very funny, things really got better.
I'm amazed at how calm he remains during this. I would've called the guy - regardless of whether he's "just doing his job" - every name under the sun and probably threatened to pay him a visit in person...
That said, I guess if I were recording it to share on the Internet later, I might've been able to control myself slightly more than usual.
This guys have it rough. I used to call them a lot and I can't recall a single instance where I saw someone raising their voice had a better outcome. The only had a more stressful call.
The operator pushes it a lot but consider this: he is probably paid like shit and he probably get commission on how many customers he can retain. Maybe if he loses too many he can even lose his job. Knowing this and knowing that their job is extremely horrible(getting called names all day) what I see here is not the operator's fault at all. I see a person crushed by a job that he might be losing taking the blame for problems that he didn't cause(maybe in this instance but they often do). The only thing I have for someone like this is a kind word instead of rage. If you are unsatisfied at the end of the call, send a complaint letter about the service, do not take it on the operator.
(Obviously there are exceptions where the operators are just assholes)
I generally find it's pretty effective to get very briefly loud and angry, and then say something like, "I'm very frustrated with this situation and I'm trying not to take it out on you," and resume politeness at that point. It seems to shock people out of their script a bit.
That said, I've never dealt with anyone quite as tenacious as the guy in that recording.
I've heard multiple times now that it's hard to cancel contracts at various providers, but I don't really see how this is an issue.
If the official way (according to the contract) to cancel a contract is a phone call, what difference does it make if the remote party accepts this cancellation? Just state that you are cancelling the contract, make sure to get a recording (if legal in your jurisdiction) and chargeback all unauthorized future credit card charges.
And then they'll eventually send your account to collections, where it will be an even bigger pain to straighten out.
Something similar happened to me with AT&T (now Comcast, I believe) in Chicago. I was moving away so I canceled service, returned my equipment in person and even got a receipt! But someone forgot to log something somewhere, so they kept sending me bills. For months, I kept calling and (foolishly) believed them when they said it would be straightened out soon... until they threatened to send my account to collections.
In the end, it took a letter to the office of the CEO with the whole story and a copy of my receipt to fix things (and if it hadn't I'd already started researching my legal options).
It is a huge problem, it's bullying people into staying with them. Not everyone would be capable or willing to go through what you say you should do.
If you're willing to go through it, good for you as it's a good form of protest (they'll get charged a lot for each chargeback). But if it ever gets to the stage where this it is now, it's totally broken.
Yeah, of course this guy didn't have to put up with a phone call like this. Comcast has bad service, but I highly doubt this is the norm. He could have hung up and called again, no problem. But he stayed on the phone because after ten minutes, he was already drooling thinking about sending this recording to his buddies at Techcrunch.
So yeah, maybe he's a bit needlessly overdramatic about this, but personally I'm thankful for the entertainment.
The only thing you say at this point is "I request you to close my account effective immediately. Is my account closed yet?". Anything else you say (e.g. "You're the reason I'm leaving" or even "I'm moving to Mars") will be used as conversational leverage against you.
Other than that, have fun with it. I got a manipulative rep when I canceled Sirius and told her I already threw away the radio when she tried to extend the contract. She was not prepared for that. :)
I couldn't cancel my Comcast service via phone because the automatic system hung up on me (I tried again the next day).
I just stopped paying (removed my credit card from the system), and after calling me multiple times about the outstanding charges, they eventually figured out that I wanted to cancel.
They still tried to bill me for the time between when I attempted to cancel and when the service was actually disconnected, even though I explained I was unwilling to pay this amount. Ultimately, they transferred the bill to a debt collection agency, and unfortunately I failed to dispute within 30 days (was traveling), so I ended up having to pay it.
I used to work in consumer service at Nintendo. On the very first day of training, the instructor made us listen to this call as a example of worst practices.
I only had a little bit of difficulty canceling my comcast service. After I figured out what the customer service guy was doing, it went a little like this:
- I don't owe you an explanation.
- I'm in a hurry. Cancel my service now.
- I have your name. I will call back to complain about you.
- If another bill comes, I will not pay. If you send a collection agency and it affects my credit rating, I'll take you to court.
I'm only halfway through but this is driving me crazy. I'm actually feeling extremely furious.
This is why I hate to pick up the phone to talk to companies and instead want automated systems where I can fill out forms and get my job done under 3 minutes, no questions asked.
This reminds me of that study a few months ago about how customer satisfaction has no correlation or possibly a slight negative with profitability. I guess I see why now.
Aaaaah! Get meta!!!
We can all appreciate the value of having this recording be available as a learning opportunity for consumers.
If you have the sense to know you are being strung along, become the questioner and outflank the rep every time.
Them: "I'm just trying to understand..."
You: "I find Comcast's customer service to be poor. Let's see if you can help with that. Can you tell me if you are empowered to quickly cancel my service without probing any further?"
Them: doesn't matter if they do anything but answer your question
You if "yes": "Let's cancel and ask no more questions then."
You if anything else: "I need to talk to someone who is able to execute my request. I'd like to talk to your supervisor."
You will be put on hold and forced to wait.
You do not ratchet down the intensity of your demands unless you know that your request is in motion. You mostly continue to treat the call as being with one entity (it is). If the next person makes any inquiries/reasons, etc.
You: "I am not answering any further questions. I am cancelling the service. Are YOU empowered to execute this process without further probing?"
Leave them only with yes/no answers directly related to them executing the action you want. Any words you provide other than repetition of the action or requests to escalate will be used against you.
If not, keep asking for supervisors. Poor level 1 is just doing their soul-crushing job. Every middle manager is desperately trying to not do that any more.
Until they have so many people trying to jump over level 1 will you ever need to waste time in level 2. I've only once had to go to level 3.
Does Comcast hire from the list of people with restraining orders on them? Sounds like some guy trying to not get dumped.
I thoroughly dislike Comcast and would go to great effort to avoid their service.
That said, as funny as this is, this to me is more of a failing on a personal level than by Comcast as a whole. He seems more angry at the caller because he's losing the argument and not getting any concessions and just wants some sort of response or willingness to hear what he's saying. I sincerely believe that by the midpoint of that recording he was no longer interested in keeping the customer, he just wanted to win a point in the argument to protect his ego.
Interestingly, these are the last people you want handling sales/customer retention calls because they don't empathize with the customer or see the situation from their point of view at all. They're more worried about their appearance than the ultimate business goal, which is increasing sales.
I'm pretty certain that he would be reprimanded for this behavior.
"I'm pretty certain that he would be reprimanded for this behavior."
I could not disagree more.
That makes the huge assumption that the retention department is measured and paid by metrics like "increasing sales". I am almost 100% certain that would not be the case.
The longer you keep a quitting customer on the phone the less likely they are to leave, the more likely they are to give up hope and keep paying. Awesome job.
The company pays the retention rep to read arguments from a script to a quitting customer, and the rep read all of them, awesome.
Lets say we get $150/month from this customer and it costs us $8/hr for this customer's monthly hour long call to argue and lie to the customer. The company is not seeing a financial problem here. At $5/day revenue even if all the rep does is slow down the customer by one pro-rated day, as long as the rep spends less than 30 minutes per call the company is still making a "profit". More typically if you just lie to the customer and get on average half a billing period out of them, thats an awesome profit.
You get what you measure and select for.
"because they don't empathize with the customer"
Why would a monopoly provider want to do that? It doesn't even make sense. Like hiring a police chief based on how well he empathizes with the crooks, or promoting a military officer based on how sympathetic he is to the other side, or appointing a religious leader based on how strongly he believes in the opposition's point of view.
Having worked in Customer Service (at a different company) on the phones, I see very little chance that this isn't the way his entire office is run. Most likely they weekly have their phone calls listened to by supervisors and evaluated, as well as constant tracking to see who has the most cancelations -- with serious consequences for those cancelations.
Could be just an individual, too. Or something in between. I just doubt that.
I cancelled my Comcast on Friday. It was incredibly easy. I didn't have to stay on hold, and they even offered to mail a postage-paid box for me to return my modem.
[+] [-] denisdl|11 years ago|reply
If the customer really wants to talk to a representative to cancel the services, the cancellation must be effective immediately.
[1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=y&prev...
[+] [-] boobsbr|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zerohp|11 years ago|reply
They don't transfer you to customer retention and you'll be off the phone in a few minutes.
[+] [-] michaelfeathers|11 years ago|reply
Why can't we go there today? Is it simply the triumph of free-market orthodoxy and a tacit acceptance that to be a consumer today one must subject oneself to this sort of rapaciousness?
[+] [-] wallawe|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spodek|11 years ago|reply
Why not meet the demand to cut off internet services?
One idea: create a phone service where I call a third-party (you, the entrepreneur) that connects me to the best number to cancel my service. The third party determines if recording the call is legal and records if so, posting the recording online, along with metadata: date, duration, agent name, locale, etc. If recording call is not legal, still post metadata, or also get all parties' permission to record.
Possibly create script through trial and error to counter their script. Can compile data on agents and supervisors names, can follow up with complaints for agents or supervisors to customer service, etc. Can file complaints with elected representatives, FCC, etc... stuff individuals don't have time for but want to.
Another idea: create a web site that takes subscriber information and mails effective letter, registered if necessary, to best address for service provider, using language to set up legal case if necessary.
In both cases, the company could, over time, compile statistics on each service provider's difficulties, giving some accountability. It could also discover their weaknesses and overcome what individuals might not be able to.
You can probably think of many other ways to attack the problem and satisfy the unmet need.
Might not make huge money, but could create great visibility for the entrepreneur. Then again, it might make huge money too, since so many companies play hardball retaining customers.
[+] [-] otakucode|11 years ago|reply
You don't actually need their permission to cancel your service with them at all. You shouldn't be ASKING to cancel your service, you should be TELLING them it's cancelled. If they continue to ask questions, that is their business, hang up on them.
[+] [-] untog|11 years ago|reply
How would that result in this endeavor making money?
In any case, this is not actually a problem that is difficult to solve. Yes, a phone call like that is utterly infuriating, but you can still cancel your service at the end of it.
Maybe people would pay money to avoid dealing with that. Maybe. But you do it, what, once a year at most?
[+] [-] pistle|11 years ago|reply
It's like win-win-win!
[+] [-] greggman|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bernardom|11 years ago|reply
Servicenuke.com is available...
[+] [-] edoceo|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dbg31415|11 years ago|reply
* HOW TO: Remove yourself from ALL background check websites. Thanks to LawyerCT. : technology || http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/j1mit/how_to_rem...
[+] [-] Nursie|11 years ago|reply
After a month of no service I called to cancel, and after 45 minutes on hold I gave up. I tried again. And again. Eventually I got through to someone who processed the cancellation. I got an email saying "To confirm your intended cancellation, send an email to cancellation-confirmation@..."
That address didn't exist. The next month they started to charge me for a service I wasn't getting. I had a different ISP by this point. I called and got the money back. They took it again the next month. I called and got the money back. The third month I got a letter saying I hadn't paid for three months, so they took three months money from my card. This time I called and got the money back and demanded they remove me from their systems. Eventually someone said OK.
Six months later I got a demand for 9 months service charges. I called and told them to stuff it. Another six months later they started demanding even more money and making threats. That's when I started the official (UK) complaints procedure. You start by writing a long email setting out your demands, end it by saying "This will also be sent by registered mail, and you have 30 days to resolve this until I report you to the communications ombudsman"
The first response I got to that was a letter saying "We understand you'd like to cancel your service?" So I sent another letter, stating my demands and that no, there had never been a service to cancel, and by the way this is being sent by registered post and you have 18 days before I contact the ombudsman.
I think by the third letter it had been resolved, almost 18 months since I first tried to cancel the account. I had to move house shortly after that though, and I've worried since then that one day they're going to turn around and say "hold on, this guy owes us for ten years of broadband! Let's ruin his credit rating!"
[+] [-] MichaelApproved|11 years ago|reply
If more people did this, instead of waiting on hold for hours to fight with customer service for your own money back, the ISP would likely lose their merchant account for their fraudulent activity.
Edit: one other note when cancelling, make sure to take down the date, time and operator name & number during your interactions and note what was said. When I've had trouble with managing accounts, referencing that information strengthened my case dramatically.
I have a Google Doc that I keep for all these notes. While I'm on hold, I open up the doc and get it ready. Be clear that you're taking notes and they'll take the conversation more seriously too.
[+] [-] at-fates-hands|11 years ago|reply
He ignores the notice and every couple of weeks, he starts getting threatening letters from the company. When he finally got the shut off service warning letter, he figured he'd better do something.
He sent the company a check for $0.00 and within a week got a notice back thanking him for his payment. He not only brought all the notices, he brought the canceled check and the final thank you letter.
Automated billing systems can be unreal sometimes.
[+] [-] madaxe_again|11 years ago|reply
I went down a completely different route to you, ultimately - I took them to small claims court on the basis that they'd charged me illegally and therefore owed me £600 or so, they failed to show to either mediation or court, I got a default judgment in my favour, they didn't pay it, but they did stop contacting and invoicing me, and my credit score wasn't dented.
Now, British Gas and the electricity meter that ticked over from 99999 to 00000 and resulted in a £15k power bill is another story entirely...
[+] [-] rasz_pl|11 years ago|reply
I had internet from our national monopoly for couple of years. Cancelled it in one of their brick and mortar rep centers no problem.
One month passes and new bill shows up, its like they didnt notice me cancelling. Called them, rep confirmed bug in system, said he resolved it and gave me confirmation number. Next month same thing. This time my first words were 'im recording this, state your name again' followed by 'I am holding you personally responsible if your company tries to extort money from me ever again, your name will be on court papers'. Worked like magic, no more phantom bills.
I dont care its just some some poor sob working for the man in call center. Company tried to steal my money and they were part of that system.
[+] [-] specialist|11 years ago|reply
I tried both Speakeasy (now MegaPath) DSL and ClearWire WiMax. They sucked. The 10mbps DSLs downstream sometimes reached up to 200kbps. The TCP/IP behind the WiMax would regularly disappear for hours.
For each, I called to get the RMA (to send their gear back), cancel service, and then I immediately canceled the credit card on file.
Both then sent me to collections. I tried contesting the bills. "Sorry, we don't have any record of you canceling." (You'd think possession of the modems would be a clue.)
Neither have sent these bills to a credit rating agency (e.g. Transunion, Experian), so I've ignored them.
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jason_slack|11 years ago|reply
So what did I do? I called 3 other times in a row, got 3 different people, asked to speak to a supervisor. Each said I would have a call back within 24 - 48 business hours.
I did. They called.
I explained all about the paperwork and supervisor out of town and it was literally all made up. All of it.
EDIT: My better side is resisting not calling out the guy who gave me the hassle by posting his name and e-mail.
EDIT 2: I forgot to mention that the rep tried to tell me that the "Terms Of Service" I signed the contract with wasn't valid anymore because it was to old. I asked well I didn't get any new paperwork to agree to the new Terms Of Service. His reply was that paying my bill every month was agreement enough, I didn't need to be told about changes. Doesn't make any sense.
[+] [-] teekert|11 years ago|reply
T-mobile found themselves suddenly completely on the defensive in various TV-shows. They apologized profusely. It was very funny, things really got better.
[+] [-] bshimmin|11 years ago|reply
That said, I guess if I were recording it to share on the Internet later, I might've been able to control myself slightly more than usual.
[+] [-] duiker101|11 years ago|reply
The operator pushes it a lot but consider this: he is probably paid like shit and he probably get commission on how many customers he can retain. Maybe if he loses too many he can even lose his job. Knowing this and knowing that their job is extremely horrible(getting called names all day) what I see here is not the operator's fault at all. I see a person crushed by a job that he might be losing taking the blame for problems that he didn't cause(maybe in this instance but they often do). The only thing I have for someone like this is a kind word instead of rage. If you are unsatisfied at the end of the call, send a complaint letter about the service, do not take it on the operator.
(Obviously there are exceptions where the operators are just assholes)
[+] [-] aetherson|11 years ago|reply
That said, I've never dealt with anyone quite as tenacious as the guy in that recording.
[+] [-] ekianjo|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alokdhari|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gst|11 years ago|reply
If the official way (according to the contract) to cancel a contract is a phone call, what difference does it make if the remote party accepts this cancellation? Just state that you are cancelling the contract, make sure to get a recording (if legal in your jurisdiction) and chargeback all unauthorized future credit card charges.
[+] [-] fpgeek|11 years ago|reply
Something similar happened to me with AT&T (now Comcast, I believe) in Chicago. I was moving away so I canceled service, returned my equipment in person and even got a receipt! But someone forgot to log something somewhere, so they kept sending me bills. For months, I kept calling and (foolishly) believed them when they said it would be straightened out soon... until they threatened to send my account to collections.
In the end, it took a letter to the office of the CEO with the whole story and a copy of my receipt to fix things (and if it hadn't I'd already started researching my legal options).
[+] [-] TomGullen|11 years ago|reply
If you're willing to go through it, good for you as it's a good form of protest (they'll get charged a lot for each chargeback). But if it ever gets to the stage where this it is now, it's totally broken.
[+] [-] lotsofmangos|11 years ago|reply
The continuation of provided service, followed by a bill in the mail.
make sure to get a recording (if legal in your jurisdiction)
And how exactly do you prove that it is a recording of a conversation with Comcast if their lawyers decide to dispute it?
[+] [-] brown9-2|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chatmasta|11 years ago|reply
So yeah, maybe he's a bit needlessly overdramatic about this, but personally I'm thankful for the entertainment.
[+] [-] tedchs|11 years ago|reply
Other than that, have fun with it. I got a manipulative rep when I canceled Sirius and told her I already threw away the radio when she tried to extend the contract. She was not prepared for that. :)
[+] [-] jrockway|11 years ago|reply
Step two: send the letter via certified mail to the company whose service you're cancelling, cc'd to your state attorney general's office.
Step three: there is no step 3.
[+] [-] KerrickStaley|11 years ago|reply
I just stopped paying (removed my credit card from the system), and after calling me multiple times about the outstanding charges, they eventually figured out that I wanted to cancel.
They still tried to bill me for the time between when I attempted to cancel and when the service was actually disconnected, even though I explained I was unwilling to pay this amount. Ultimately, they transferred the bill to a debt collection agency, and unfortunately I failed to dispute within 30 days (was traveling), so I ended up having to pay it.
[+] [-] VLM|11 years ago|reply
"I'm moving to (insert name of city owned by competitor)"
[+] [-] SippinLean|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ben1040|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dubfan|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] steveax|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kstenerud|11 years ago|reply
- I don't owe you an explanation.
- I'm in a hurry. Cancel my service now.
- I have your name. I will call back to complain about you.
- If another bill comes, I will not pay. If you send a collection agency and it affects my credit rating, I'll take you to court.
- You have 30 seconds to comply.
[+] [-] pestaa|11 years ago|reply
This is why I hate to pick up the phone to talk to companies and instead want automated systems where I can fill out forms and get my job done under 3 minutes, no questions asked.
[+] [-] rcthompson|11 years ago|reply
One example link to a new story covering the result: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-17/proof-that-i...
[+] [-] pistle|11 years ago|reply
If you have the sense to know you are being strung along, become the questioner and outflank the rep every time.
Them: "I'm just trying to understand..." You: "I find Comcast's customer service to be poor. Let's see if you can help with that. Can you tell me if you are empowered to quickly cancel my service without probing any further?" Them: doesn't matter if they do anything but answer your question You if "yes": "Let's cancel and ask no more questions then." You if anything else: "I need to talk to someone who is able to execute my request. I'd like to talk to your supervisor."
You will be put on hold and forced to wait.
You do not ratchet down the intensity of your demands unless you know that your request is in motion. You mostly continue to treat the call as being with one entity (it is). If the next person makes any inquiries/reasons, etc.
You: "I am not answering any further questions. I am cancelling the service. Are YOU empowered to execute this process without further probing?"
Leave them only with yes/no answers directly related to them executing the action you want. Any words you provide other than repetition of the action or requests to escalate will be used against you.
If not, keep asking for supervisors. Poor level 1 is just doing their soul-crushing job. Every middle manager is desperately trying to not do that any more.
Until they have so many people trying to jump over level 1 will you ever need to waste time in level 2. I've only once had to go to level 3.
Does Comcast hire from the list of people with restraining orders on them? Sounds like some guy trying to not get dumped.
[+] [-] dkrich|11 years ago|reply
That said, as funny as this is, this to me is more of a failing on a personal level than by Comcast as a whole. He seems more angry at the caller because he's losing the argument and not getting any concessions and just wants some sort of response or willingness to hear what he's saying. I sincerely believe that by the midpoint of that recording he was no longer interested in keeping the customer, he just wanted to win a point in the argument to protect his ego.
Interestingly, these are the last people you want handling sales/customer retention calls because they don't empathize with the customer or see the situation from their point of view at all. They're more worried about their appearance than the ultimate business goal, which is increasing sales.
I'm pretty certain that he would be reprimanded for this behavior.
[+] [-] VLM|11 years ago|reply
I could not disagree more.
That makes the huge assumption that the retention department is measured and paid by metrics like "increasing sales". I am almost 100% certain that would not be the case.
The longer you keep a quitting customer on the phone the less likely they are to leave, the more likely they are to give up hope and keep paying. Awesome job.
The company pays the retention rep to read arguments from a script to a quitting customer, and the rep read all of them, awesome.
Lets say we get $150/month from this customer and it costs us $8/hr for this customer's monthly hour long call to argue and lie to the customer. The company is not seeing a financial problem here. At $5/day revenue even if all the rep does is slow down the customer by one pro-rated day, as long as the rep spends less than 30 minutes per call the company is still making a "profit". More typically if you just lie to the customer and get on average half a billing period out of them, thats an awesome profit.
You get what you measure and select for.
"because they don't empathize with the customer"
Why would a monopoly provider want to do that? It doesn't even make sense. Like hiring a police chief based on how well he empathizes with the crooks, or promoting a military officer based on how sympathetic he is to the other side, or appointing a religious leader based on how strongly he believes in the opposition's point of view.
[+] [-] elicash|11 years ago|reply
Could be just an individual, too. Or something in between. I just doubt that.
[+] [-] DanBC|11 years ago|reply
I reckon he'd retain more people and thus get better bonuses, and not reprimands.
[+] [-] cloudwalking|11 years ago|reply
I was pleasantly surprised.