So, my only concern with this idea is the inconsistency of the stories we tell ourselves vs the way the world is, and how the two seem to be confused here.
High school, for me at least, was a fairly dark time in my life. If i knew myself, the only thing i would be able to tell myself is, it's going to suck until you're halfway through college.
Bullies, at least the best ones, don't leave you alone. They don't leave you alone if your confident, they don't leave you alone if you're hurt. They just don't care. They have either yet to learn empathy, or are simply sociopaths and you're simply a fixture in their lives, entertainment.
Now, assuming this is the case, which it was for me. You have a choice. Make a game that is a bit dark, existential, cathartic, or simply make a game that tells us to believe the nonsense that we are told to tell ourselves: be confident, give your bully the "i'm not a chicken, you're a turkey" speech, excel and you'll get respect.
I think if you want to make a truly interesting game, ignore the uplifting nonsense and go for the catharsis. It gets better when you're able to choose your friends, your you're able to make friends on your own terms, not just pick from those around you.
If i were going to make a game like this i would have aspects like:
* Having a good cry shouldn't be in game death, it should be a power up.
* Being vulnerable and hurt and carrying on regardless should be strength.
When i started making friends in upper level classes in college, i was able to be friends with people that saw the world in interesting ways, and cared about things that made sense. We had mutual respect, and that was that. The nasty politics of social groups has rarely ever crept into my life since.
> If i knew myself, the only thing i would be able to tell myself is, it's going to suck until you're halfway through college.
If I may just highlight this. Children should be told that being a schoolkid is a weird kind of environment, the like of which they probably won't experience as an adult. Most workplaces don't involve customary physical violence, or even frequent overt verbal abuse. Glibly telling them that their life is horrible because they're not doing it right is a fucking awful thing to do to them.
We can indeed draw strength and well-being from a having a good cry. Sometimes you have to break down in order to come back stronger. But this comes at a price: breaking down is usually still a setback in other ways, and so its value has to be weighed against the situation. There are times when we truly cannot afford to do it.
I think that this game's death-concept is actually a decent model for this. You suffer a setback, but you ultimately come back in a better state than you were in just before it happened, and although you have to face once again some of the problems you'd solved before, you've got the tools to do that. You can still only suffer so many of these before the problem starts to get much more serious, and there are times when suffering even one can be catastrophic. But if you persevere and handle your emotions with care, you can make it through.
From what I've gathered before from some reading on adolescent bullying:
Bullies (not bully-victims):
* A transient, difficult-to-predict population, and perhaps more elegantly thought of as a social position than an individual propensity.
* Bullies generally don't stay bullies, and it's difficult to know who will become a bully.
* Bullying is also an audience-related activity, and is often performed in front of others -- the "bystander" population is in on it, and may provide substantial social rewards to bullies. Even victims may admire bullies.
* Bullies experience improvement in social popularity.
* Bullying events tend to involve a group of bullies against singular or fewer victims.
* The stereotypes that bullies are sociopaths / psychopaths, come from abusive home situations, are anxious or insecure, do not persuasively conform to observations.
* Bullies experience protective effects against loneliness, social anxiety, stress, and some other things. They do better than the normal population on these aspects.
Victims:
* Are a stable population, and may perhaps be more elegantly thought of as an individual propensity, rather than a social position where people move in and out of.
* One study estimates that the victim population constitutes about 10% of the school population.
* A small handful of studies with admitted methodological difficulties finds that those who are bullied at school are also significantly more likely to be bullied on online social networks.
"The nasty politics of social groups has rarely ever crept into my life sense."
Except for the rest of the world that doesn't live up to your, let's be honest, pretty high, political standers required to enter your social group.
"i was able to be friends with people that saw the world in interesting ways, and cared about things that made sense."
If someone wants to be friends with you, knew this is what you valued, and yet didn't 'qualify'; their ability to enter your social group becomes seriously vague and very hard to navigate.
"It gets better when you're able to choose your friends, your you're able to make friends on your own terms, not just pick from those around you."
Ever ponder the possibility that there were, or are, some people out there that just can't figure out your social politics and are maybe confused and lonely wondering what it is about them that you don't like?
The game aside ...as a father of two girls, 8 and 6 this scares this shit out of me. My 8 year old is just moving out of the fantasy/play world and hearing what is ahead for her is not comforting. I am still happy I read this, as it gives me a primer on what to expect, and some ideas on how to handle it.
The most striking take-away from this is how the game provided a platform for a Dad to learn more about his daughter. Simply knowing what is causing stress/sadness in your child's life is important, and many times we as parents are too involved with our lives and the practical running of the household to stop and ask how are kids are "feeling" and what scares them or gives them worry.
Didn't expect to get parenting advice from HN today (or ever considering how many 20 something hackers hang here), but happy I did.
Looking at the game pictures of people pointing and laughing when the main character falls sent a chill down my spine. Everyone has at least a few horrid memories of school years, so this definitely seems scarier than zombies or aliens trying to kill your character.
Hopefully it doesn't push the concept too far and become depressing to play. Either way it looks interesting, so I'm in for one.
I love it, although one thing bothers me a bit: this whole concept of "my biggest enemies are other teenagers" doesn't just apply to girls, yet the article kind of makes it sound like it does. This man must either have forgotten large parts of his own childhood, or have had an unusually carefree one. I mean, yes, the "flavour" of nasty, backstabbing social politics is different accross gender roles and cultures, but it's everywhere.
Having said that, it's a worthy subject to build a game around and hope it will tackle the subject in a proper way.
Thanks for saying that. These days I have kind of a thin skin for the implication, which seems to be increasingly prevalent, that the interests and struggles of boys/men are not only perfectly understood, but are too simplistic and trivial to be concerned with; just give the fuckers enough Red Bulls and handguns and watch them party their way to social media startups! Just don't forget to throw a rasher of half-cooked bacon onto the cage floor from time to time. And so on.
Apparently most of the males I've met in my life are incredibly, incredibly dysfunctional.
Guys are less subtle -- we're wired to be more attracted to the binary good/bad aspect of things. The male power dynamic is powerful/weak. Girls sweat the details.
I think any teacher or person who deals with kids around middle school age would tell you that girls have more sophisticated social constructs and very different ways of undermining each other than boys.
No kidding. The implication seems to be that boys play video games with zombies is because the biggest thing boys are afraid of is zombies. Or wild pokemon. Or what have you.
I'm male and I never was part of any political machinations in high school or college. It's definitely not everywhere. Every behaviour obviously exists in every gender, but playing nasty political machinations at an early age is definitely girls' forte and almost never observed with boys.
That was a fascinating and well-written article, and for a parent of young daughters, a depressing one that makes me doubt my strength to be a sufficiently good father.
That aside, the game has a problem, in my view: it's too real. It sounds like a game that provides you with more of the crushing disappointments that fill real life, and it reinforces the idea that you ought to be so awesome that bullies leave you alone — which will never happen.
In regard to being a father of daughters, I can share one thought, as a parent of one (now grown) daughter. Create a time or place where each daughter feels totally safe in sharing with you whatever is on their mind. This requires a serious dedication to honing the skills of listening. I find that total listening is no small feat.
> That aside, the game has a problem, in my view: it's too real.
Exactly. I don't play zombie-based video games because zombies scare me. I play them because zombies are fun to kill. This game seems a little too realistic.
Then again, it might be a good thing to confront some real-world fears in a video game. I could see a game like this working really well if it's designed right.
> it reinforces the idea that you ought to be so awesome that bullies leave you alone — which will never happen.
Anecdata: bullies don't leave you alone because you're awesome, they leave you alone because their bullying doesn't work on you (because you're resilient to personal attacks, or you pretend to not care until they exhaust the possibilities and leave you alone etc.) or backfires on them somehow.
What you see as a problem is exactly what I like about the game. To me, parenting often feels like walking a tightrope: you have to preserve a delicate balance between presenting the world as it should be and presenting it as it is. The former is meant to instill values, the latter is meant to prepare and protect. Too much of the former sets the kid up for a huge disappointment. Too much of the latter would be crushing.
That's why I would love to see a game like this, a game that addresses the problem, but ultimately remains a game you can have fun with. The best works I've ever read/seen/played are subtle: they don't shove their ideas down your throat, but make you think about their nuances later.
I'm not a parent, but have had to "babysit" teens and young adults with slowed development (autism etc) for a while now. That's really the extent of what I teach them: Be awesome. Love can only be freely given and respect can only be hard-earned.
Sometimes we turn to art (such as games) to forget about the problems we face in our reality. Sometimes we turn to art because we're desperate to see our reality reflected somewhere else, to be reassured that we're not alone.
Agreed -- reading it, it felt like it needed to be more allegorical. As for the lesson, I think it should be "learn how to love yourself, so people's negativity can't penetrate you," but I didn't see anything in the article that indicated that was the takeaway. Then again, maybe games shouldn't be purveyors of morality lessons.
Jason I am father of 12r old daughter, hang in there. It does not have to be like described in the article, try to show her that being liked is not important and know the families of her friends, those are the keys. It's tough, not 100%, but worth it, good luck.
Its a storey brought to life. As such it can explore what your children will inevitably encounter, and lets them experiment with responses without being really hurt. Its wonderful.
Historically, males compete and establish superiority by fighting and physical strength. Females do it with mind games. That's why females are more emotionally manipulative than males are, in general.
It's interesting that the author's first idea was a combat-based game. For some reason, the world of game development has to a large degree becomes fixated on the idea of combat and violence. So games that don't necessarily need it have it anyway, even when it doesn't make sense (see Ludonarrative Dissonance in Bioshock). Always picking violence as the go-to gameplay mechanic is so limiting, and it's exciting to see games that avoid it and go for something more appropriate to the concept.
It's fun. I like to shoot things and blow shit up and hit people with swords.
Very rarely do I find the story in a game good enough to care about some neologism like "ludonarrative dissonance".
I find these "important" games like Bioshock to be pretty embarrassing and childish in the story department. Ken Levine is not the first person to take on Ayn Rand. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. The pretentiousness of that game is just over the top. But it's a lot of fun, because they nailed the blowing shit up part.
There are plenty of games out there that aren't fixated on combat and violence. Strategy games like the Civ series or EU IV have very abstracted combat, and are better described as conflict or competition (combat isn't core gameplay). Strategy games like Spacechem have nil violence. Then there are endless builder games like minecraft, where combat very much takes a back seat, and you can avoid it if you like. There are lots of platformers with no combat - 'running' games, where you avoid obstacles (a category the game in the article falls into). Three are more than a few horror games where you have no combat ability, like Slenderman. There's investigative or story games that have little or no combat in them, like say LA Noir, or most point-n-click adventures. There's also unusual games like Rocksmith where you plug your guitar into the PC. Just now, I've been playing Waking Mars, a game that is basically a gardening sim (oh, and there's gardening sims like Farmville). Then there are the sports and other sims - Steam just had a sale on a 'car mechanic simulator', and I'm not really sure it's reasonable to call things like NBA 2014 a 'combat-based' game. Driving and flying sims are also popular, and the queen of sims is the 'generic human sim' Sims 3, which is combatless. Then there's logic games like Tetris or 2048.
If you think that the idea of a game without violence is worth noting, then you're really not bothering to look at what games are out there.
Violence is accessible. Tom and Jerry could have a nice philosophical dialog in the park, but that would put Tom and Jerry beyond it's target audience. Instead, they smack each other around with frying pans.
Even shows that shoot for the more pacifist/philosophical angle tend to prominently feature violence (Doctor Who seems like an obvious example).
Because combat is inherently exciting in a way that most things are not. Combat naturally engages the mind, it changes the world in a visceral and immediate and often flashy way, and it ties in neatly with the narrative concepts of conflict and struggle. Video games are uniquely well-suited for combat. It isn't the only thing they can do, certainly, but I don't think it's fair to suggest that having combat in a video game is a failure of creativity. Combat just takes up a really large portion of the creative space there. Similarly, dramatic films have a strong tendency to focus on humans despite the fact that there are narratives that could be constructed around non-human entities.
This isn't a feature of teenage-hood by the way. The same patterns (power cliques, bullying, etc) are common in prisons.
This is a feature of a coercive, homogeneous environment. Modern schooling - especially public schooling - looks like it was designed by someone who took "Lord of the Flies" for an instruction manual.
"I just saw Dazed and Confused ... Even as an adult, the movie is great. It perfectly captures the intensities and subtleties of the social hierarchy at a large public school; it’s akin to prison.
"And for anyone who has gone to a large public school then you know that it is likely the closest thing to prison you will ever experience (and because of that, you are my brother). I was at the mercy of the hierarchy but then of course ritually enforced it. Nothing ever mean or nasty but there were circles and power, mystique around certain cliques and I respected it. We chased that power, reacted against it, then exerted it.
"That power between social groups in school, it never breaks down neatly as it does in the other teen comedies. It’s not the nerds versus jocks. The jocks usually didn’t have enough charisma to be truly popular. It was always the dual edged, cross pollenating ones that carried the most glamour. The jock-stoner; the hot-nerd; the dangerous-attractive dude-who graduated but you would still blow; the shady mean girls who were the ultimate enforcers of social power — they come in many forms, sometimes even in overalls."
It's interesting that the fear, pain, scarring and all around serious threat (above and beyond physical violence even) of humiliation, insults and generally making people 'feel like crap' can be acknowledged the way it is here, but a physical response to such things is universally deemed unacceptable and unjustified.
If a kid punches his peer in the face for engaging in the sort of sadistic mind games and public ridicule which leaves wounds that heal far slower than a bloody nose he (the puncher) will end up with the blame.
In my experience, most people won't even entertain this topic, it's an immediate retreat to 'sticks and stones' and simplistic notions of bullying straight out of 60 year old Archie Comics.
Growing up decades ago, my dad had this to say--schoolyard bullies and fights happened, and worst case parents were brought in or kids sent home. Sometimes, the gym coach would just drag the kids over and give them gloves and let them go at it. This was at a public school.
Currently, zero-tolerance policies have removed a long-standing safety-valve for this kind of torment. As a result, we see things like this, like Columbine, like many other things--and feed the school to prison pipeline.
Actually, punching a kid in the face in the middle of class was a viable strategy for getting adults to deal with bullying when I was in school. They could ignore the bullying up until then, but once there was a physical altercation in front of them, they had to admit there was a problem.
I got suspended (1 day out of school, 2 days in-school) but the bullying got dealt with. YMMV
To talk about the kickstarter campaign for a second: It seems that they've seriously undervalued or underestimated the amount of interest in the game: the highest reward is $1000 and it's gone (there's only one) the next highest reward is $300 (5) and they're all gone too. meanwhile they still need to make over $25,000 in basically just game sales, which can erode future game sales (when the game is officially released)
They are also asking for an insanely small amount of money for a game that won't be out for another 9 months, while promising to develop for 4 of the 7 major platforms.
Best of luck, I hope it's good because this is the first AUS kickstarter I'm supporting.
Two things came to mind reading this: Ender's Game and Snow Crash. The former because the identification of your peers as adversaries, bullies, the real threat, not the aliens threatening humanity. Snow Crash because there's something to be said about tough delivery girls.
The tone of the game, and in discussions of bullying in general, seem to be that the player just cannot deal with social disapproval and the choices are:
1) learn to smile while others toss bombs at you
2) withdraw
How about a 3)? If your daughter is displeased with being at the bottom of the social hierarchy, why not encourage her to be on top? Encourage strength and stop squashing ambition. Ninja Pizza Girl can photograph them back with scathing Instagram comments or whatever. She can get a makeover and work out, which will not only increase her social standing but improve her mental acuity and fight depression. The game should end with the other pizza girls fighting each other to be her best friend.
My daughter is a preteen and has discovered Animal Jam (and turned her younger brothers on to it as well). No violence, just lots of exploring, collecting and trading. The social aspect seems to be the major hook.
I think this is a refreshing approach to a game. As others have mentioned, a lot of recent game development has a focus on smashing your enemies to bits with increasingly powerful moves or weapons while this game is attempting to depict the nuances of navigating a much more complex reality.
You can't just sneak up on your snarky condescending peers and squash them with a giant squeaky hammer. You have to figure out ways to coexist with them, and even sometimes cooperate, while avoiding their toxic natures.
Sometimes the solution involves finding the good peers among the bad, other times it may involve finding common ground, and perhaps sometimes it involves recognizing a lost cause and making your interactions with particularly toxic people minimal.
There are a number of reasons I'm happy to support this game. It may not get everything right, it may not become a top seller on release, but it does have a target audience and message that I personally would like to see more of in the game industry.
Wonderful crossover piece. I could email this to members of my family or my other nerd friends. It's intimate and shareable. Plus it works as a promo for the game. The structure is nice, and it flows. Most excellent.
This was a great article actually. Most game devs are men, so we don't understand this point of view so well. I may be inspired to write a "girl" game with such insights. Thank you for sharing it :)
I see lots of "my anecdotal experience as a XYZ proves your anecdotal experience fighting bullies as a ABC is totally wrong"
However, observationally over my long life, I've found it all boils down to get inside their OODA loop, and they want nothing to do with you. Doesn't matter if its a supervisor at age 35 or some jock in high school.
Observationally it doesn't seem to even matter if you're right, just if you're faster. Spin the loop fast as possible and don't skip any steps. Do the best you can without stopping but don't stop the loop. The faster you spin the faster you can try all kinds of crazy ideas some of which might actually work.
Being reactive has a negative connotation. I'm not saying be reactive. A dumb ball game analogy is make sure the ball is always in their court so they have to think longer, harder than you, they're the ones anxiously guessing whats about to happen next not you. They tend not to like that experience, not at all.
[+] [-] scoofy|11 years ago|reply
High school, for me at least, was a fairly dark time in my life. If i knew myself, the only thing i would be able to tell myself is, it's going to suck until you're halfway through college.
Bullies, at least the best ones, don't leave you alone. They don't leave you alone if your confident, they don't leave you alone if you're hurt. They just don't care. They have either yet to learn empathy, or are simply sociopaths and you're simply a fixture in their lives, entertainment.
Now, assuming this is the case, which it was for me. You have a choice. Make a game that is a bit dark, existential, cathartic, or simply make a game that tells us to believe the nonsense that we are told to tell ourselves: be confident, give your bully the "i'm not a chicken, you're a turkey" speech, excel and you'll get respect.
I think if you want to make a truly interesting game, ignore the uplifting nonsense and go for the catharsis. It gets better when you're able to choose your friends, your you're able to make friends on your own terms, not just pick from those around you.
If i were going to make a game like this i would have aspects like:
* Having a good cry shouldn't be in game death, it should be a power up.
* Being vulnerable and hurt and carrying on regardless should be strength.
When i started making friends in upper level classes in college, i was able to be friends with people that saw the world in interesting ways, and cared about things that made sense. We had mutual respect, and that was that. The nasty politics of social groups has rarely ever crept into my life since.
[+] [-] Joeboy|11 years ago|reply
If I may just highlight this. Children should be told that being a schoolkid is a weird kind of environment, the like of which they probably won't experience as an adult. Most workplaces don't involve customary physical violence, or even frequent overt verbal abuse. Glibly telling them that their life is horrible because they're not doing it right is a fucking awful thing to do to them.
[+] [-] Millennium|11 years ago|reply
I think that this game's death-concept is actually a decent model for this. You suffer a setback, but you ultimately come back in a better state than you were in just before it happened, and although you have to face once again some of the problems you'd solved before, you've got the tools to do that. You can still only suffer so many of these before the problem starts to get much more serious, and there are times when suffering even one can be catastrophic. But if you persevere and handle your emotions with care, you can make it through.
[+] [-] threatofrain|11 years ago|reply
Bullies (not bully-victims):
* A transient, difficult-to-predict population, and perhaps more elegantly thought of as a social position than an individual propensity.
* Bullies generally don't stay bullies, and it's difficult to know who will become a bully.
* Bullying is also an audience-related activity, and is often performed in front of others -- the "bystander" population is in on it, and may provide substantial social rewards to bullies. Even victims may admire bullies.
* Bullies experience improvement in social popularity.
* Bullying events tend to involve a group of bullies against singular or fewer victims.
* The stereotypes that bullies are sociopaths / psychopaths, come from abusive home situations, are anxious or insecure, do not persuasively conform to observations.
* Bullies experience protective effects against loneliness, social anxiety, stress, and some other things. They do better than the normal population on these aspects.
Victims:
* Are a stable population, and may perhaps be more elegantly thought of as an individual propensity, rather than a social position where people move in and out of.
* One study estimates that the victim population constitutes about 10% of the school population.
* A small handful of studies with admitted methodological difficulties finds that those who are bullied at school are also significantly more likely to be bullied on online social networks.
[+] [-] OvidNaso|11 years ago|reply
Except for the rest of the world that doesn't live up to your, let's be honest, pretty high, political standers required to enter your social group.
"i was able to be friends with people that saw the world in interesting ways, and cared about things that made sense."
If someone wants to be friends with you, knew this is what you valued, and yet didn't 'qualify'; their ability to enter your social group becomes seriously vague and very hard to navigate.
"It gets better when you're able to choose your friends, your you're able to make friends on your own terms, not just pick from those around you."
Ever ponder the possibility that there were, or are, some people out there that just can't figure out your social politics and are maybe confused and lonely wondering what it is about them that you don't like?
[+] [-] josefresco|11 years ago|reply
The most striking take-away from this is how the game provided a platform for a Dad to learn more about his daughter. Simply knowing what is causing stress/sadness in your child's life is important, and many times we as parents are too involved with our lives and the practical running of the household to stop and ask how are kids are "feeling" and what scares them or gives them worry.
Didn't expect to get parenting advice from HN today (or ever considering how many 20 something hackers hang here), but happy I did.
[+] [-] jobu|11 years ago|reply
Hopefully it doesn't push the concept too far and become depressing to play. Either way it looks interesting, so I'm in for one.
[+] [-] vanderZwan|11 years ago|reply
Having said that, it's a worthy subject to build a game around and hope it will tackle the subject in a proper way.
[+] [-] shanusmagnus|11 years ago|reply
Apparently most of the males I've met in my life are incredibly, incredibly dysfunctional.
[+] [-] danielweber|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Spooky23|11 years ago|reply
I think any teacher or person who deals with kids around middle school age would tell you that girls have more sophisticated social constructs and very different ways of undermining each other than boys.
[+] [-] sliverstorm|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anon4|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JasonFruit|11 years ago|reply
That aside, the game has a problem, in my view: it's too real. It sounds like a game that provides you with more of the crushing disappointments that fill real life, and it reinforces the idea that you ought to be so awesome that bullies leave you alone — which will never happen.
[+] [-] wglb|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelDickens|11 years ago|reply
Exactly. I don't play zombie-based video games because zombies scare me. I play them because zombies are fun to kill. This game seems a little too realistic.
Then again, it might be a good thing to confront some real-world fears in a video game. I could see a game like this working really well if it's designed right.
[+] [-] dictum|11 years ago|reply
Anecdata: bullies don't leave you alone because you're awesome, they leave you alone because their bullying doesn't work on you (because you're resilient to personal attacks, or you pretend to not care until they exhaust the possibilities and leave you alone etc.) or backfires on them somehow.
[+] [-] CodeMage|11 years ago|reply
That's why I would love to see a game like this, a game that addresses the problem, but ultimately remains a game you can have fun with. The best works I've ever read/seen/played are subtle: they don't shove their ideas down your throat, but make you think about their nuances later.
[+] [-] spiritplumber|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] breadbox|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dclowd9901|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mzs|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JoeAltmaier|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bostonvaulter2|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ams6110|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brinker|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nsxwolf|11 years ago|reply
Very rarely do I find the story in a game good enough to care about some neologism like "ludonarrative dissonance".
I find these "important" games like Bioshock to be pretty embarrassing and childish in the story department. Ken Levine is not the first person to take on Ayn Rand. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. The pretentiousness of that game is just over the top. But it's a lot of fun, because they nailed the blowing shit up part.
[+] [-] Vaskivo|11 years ago|reply
Economic, emotional, verbal conflict, for example, are hard to represent. The outcome may not be immediate, and the result may not be obvious.
Now combat is immediate. I shoot. If it bleeds, that means I hit it. If it falls down, it is dead. If it's not dead, shoot it again.
[+] [-] vacri|11 years ago|reply
If you think that the idea of a game without violence is worth noting, then you're really not bothering to look at what games are out there.
[+] [-] Crito|11 years ago|reply
Even shows that shoot for the more pacifist/philosophical angle tend to prominently feature violence (Doctor Who seems like an obvious example).
[+] [-] chc|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] murbard2|11 years ago|reply
This is a feature of a coercive, homogeneous environment. Modern schooling - especially public schooling - looks like it was designed by someone who took "Lord of the Flies" for an instruction manual.
[+] [-] mturmon|11 years ago|reply
"I just saw Dazed and Confused ... Even as an adult, the movie is great. It perfectly captures the intensities and subtleties of the social hierarchy at a large public school; it’s akin to prison.
"And for anyone who has gone to a large public school then you know that it is likely the closest thing to prison you will ever experience (and because of that, you are my brother). I was at the mercy of the hierarchy but then of course ritually enforced it. Nothing ever mean or nasty but there were circles and power, mystique around certain cliques and I respected it. We chased that power, reacted against it, then exerted it.
"That power between social groups in school, it never breaks down neatly as it does in the other teen comedies. It’s not the nerds versus jocks. The jocks usually didn’t have enough charisma to be truly popular. It was always the dual edged, cross pollenating ones that carried the most glamour. The jock-stoner; the hot-nerd; the dangerous-attractive dude-who graduated but you would still blow; the shady mean girls who were the ultimate enforcers of social power — they come in many forms, sometimes even in overalls."
[+] [-] learc83|11 years ago|reply
Historically kids wouldn't have had an opportunity to be around that many other kids, and they kids they were around were probably extended family.
[+] [-] edent|11 years ago|reply
Works perfectly on Ubuntu (via Wine). Quite a fun little game :-)
[+] [-] incision|11 years ago|reply
If a kid punches his peer in the face for engaging in the sort of sadistic mind games and public ridicule which leaves wounds that heal far slower than a bloody nose he (the puncher) will end up with the blame.
In my experience, most people won't even entertain this topic, it's an immediate retreat to 'sticks and stones' and simplistic notions of bullying straight out of 60 year old Archie Comics.
[+] [-] angersock|11 years ago|reply
Currently, zero-tolerance policies have removed a long-standing safety-valve for this kind of torment. As a result, we see things like this, like Columbine, like many other things--and feed the school to prison pipeline.
[+] [-] aidenn0|11 years ago|reply
I got suspended (1 day out of school, 2 days in-school) but the bullying got dealt with. YMMV
[+] [-] vxNsr|11 years ago|reply
They are also asking for an insanely small amount of money for a game that won't be out for another 9 months, while promising to develop for 4 of the 7 major platforms.
Best of luck, I hope it's good because this is the first AUS kickstarter I'm supporting.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1107526107/ninja-pizza-...
[+] [-] mhurron|11 years ago|reply
Here is what the article said - "Teens worry about their peers."
This is apparently eye opening to people who were once teens. What is it with parents that completely forget high school?
[+] [-] dingdingdang|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joyeuse6701|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ElComradio|11 years ago|reply
1) learn to smile while others toss bombs at you 2) withdraw
How about a 3)? If your daughter is displeased with being at the bottom of the social hierarchy, why not encourage her to be on top? Encourage strength and stop squashing ambition. Ninja Pizza Girl can photograph them back with scathing Instagram comments or whatever. She can get a makeover and work out, which will not only increase her social standing but improve her mental acuity and fight depression. The game should end with the other pizza girls fighting each other to be her best friend.
[+] [-] pstuart|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zmetta|11 years ago|reply
You can't just sneak up on your snarky condescending peers and squash them with a giant squeaky hammer. You have to figure out ways to coexist with them, and even sometimes cooperate, while avoiding their toxic natures.
Sometimes the solution involves finding the good peers among the bad, other times it may involve finding common ground, and perhaps sometimes it involves recognizing a lost cause and making your interactions with particularly toxic people minimal.
There are a number of reasons I'm happy to support this game. It may not get everything right, it may not become a top seller on release, but it does have a target audience and message that I personally would like to see more of in the game industry.
[+] [-] DanielBMarkham|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cowbell|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VLM|11 years ago|reply
However, observationally over my long life, I've found it all boils down to get inside their OODA loop, and they want nothing to do with you. Doesn't matter if its a supervisor at age 35 or some jock in high school.
Observationally it doesn't seem to even matter if you're right, just if you're faster. Spin the loop fast as possible and don't skip any steps. Do the best you can without stopping but don't stop the loop. The faster you spin the faster you can try all kinds of crazy ideas some of which might actually work.
Being reactive has a negative connotation. I'm not saying be reactive. A dumb ball game analogy is make sure the ball is always in their court so they have to think longer, harder than you, they're the ones anxiously guessing whats about to happen next not you. They tend not to like that experience, not at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop
Don't confuse it with being flaky or random.
Its not of any use when you're getting beaten, its highly effective at avoiding a beating scenario.
[+] [-] wainstead|11 years ago|reply
http://news-beta.slashdot.org/story/99/04/25/1438249/voices-...
[+] [-] ps4fanboy|11 years ago|reply
What is the message here, dont bully unless its fat people?