As a Sikh American that wears a turban every day [https://www.facebook.com/satjot], it's great to see a positive piece on Turbans in the US. For the most part I've dealt with comments like, "Hey Osama", "You Towel Head", "Taliban!"...
As s Sikh Brit that also wears a turban I usually feel quite at home when I'm routinely in the US. Hardly any noise direct my way (must have got lucky) but plenty of folk do glance in a curious sort of way.
People seem to remember us more which is no great surprise given we tend to stand out a mile.
Back in my consulting days I used to work a lot at Microsoft offices around the world. For some strange reason no matter which country I was in, the local staff used to assume I was there for a speaking gig!
But I'll never forget the time I went to Argentina -- the whole airport stopped as I got off the plane. I didn't go back there in a hurry...
Minor nitpick, though with this caveat the article is great:
> At the time, ideas of race in America were quite literally black and white.
Not so much America as specifically the south, where white vs. black was the dividing line, and anyone nonblack was "close enough" to white, at least for the purposes of politics and segregation. In the north, where the white-vs.-black line wasn't as front-and-center, dynamics were different, and there was a higher bar for just how white you had to be to really be white. During some parts of the 20th century, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Italians, Indians, etc. wouldn't be allowed entry to "whites-only" establishments in New York, even though they were white enough for a "whites-only" restaurant in Atlanta.
edit: Although now that I think of it, this would probably be true for some things even in the north. For example the "no selling to negroes" deed restrictions in Chicago, as far as I can find, really meant you could sell to anyone except a black person, including some people with quite dark skin. Race is complex, I guess.
You exaggerate the difference between the north and south in regards to race. You overestimate the tolerance of the south to Jews, or people with foreign accents, and you underestimate the discrimination against blacks in the north. Restrictions against selling to blacks were not unique to Chicago, they were largely universal. The NAR regarded introducing new ethnicities into a neighborhood as an ethics violation until 1968.
As a boomer I have to say that it pretty much was black and white in the Midwest. One of my junior high classmates had what I realize now was an Arabic last name (probably Lebanese), and nobody perceived him as in any way different; a kid in the grade above me was named Garcia, which I didn't really know was Spanish; there was a Greek family on the next street, etc. Indians (as in subcontinental) were barely starting to immigrate.
This goes sideways as well. I was dating an Indian girl in High School (almost 20 years ago). If any older Indian men were around or crossed our path, she would say a few words in spanish. They would assume she was Mexican which would make it none-of-their-business who this "Mexican girl" dated and would stop staring.
This happens today also. Strangely, I observed this more in the us than in India.
I'm now in India and have dated a number of African girls here. I'm very tall, Africans are tall, Indians are short, hence I am the last man on earth. The reaction of Indians is interesting. If they look up at the girl (I.e. they are 5'8", she is 6'2"), they say I should marry her. If they look straight (she is 5'9") they say I should find a white girl.
yeah, the difference there aren't indian businessman stopping you from using their services or letting you work there. and there aren't indian admissions officers not letting you in because they don't like white people. so there is a little difference.
My uncle immigrated to South Carolina from India in the 1960's, and worked as an engineer at an otherwise white company.
The Christmas party was at a segregated establishment, and they had no idea what to do with him. I think that ultimately they decided that it was ok for "others" to attend, even though by skin color, he was definitely closer to the black end of the spectrum.
My parents had a friend who used this trick in the early 1950s, to get into restaurants. They told the story to my siblings and me, to illustrate the stupidity of racism.
On the other hand, I had a summer internship during college, where one of the employees was a white guy and wore a turban. He told me that he got searched every time he crossed the border between the US and Canada, during the period before 9-11 when most people just got waved across.
A good long-form story (and a true story that is quite gripping) about how changing the classification can change the perception of the person is the book Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin,[1] which I read once in childhood and reread a few years ago. Powerful stuff. It's stark to understand that events like the events described in the book happened during the lifetime of a lot of people still living today.
Interesting read, especially since today you might be called a "towel head".
I find in my day to day interactions that these days Blacks are less discriminated against than many others, but it seems it is now less about color and more about accent.
Likely what I am seeing is a bias against non-European immigrants.
Being a well spoken Black is fine to hire or hang out with. Someone who looks and sounds like Will I Am, or Quincy Jones, or Colin Powell all good choices. Flavor Flav likely not so much.
The same goes for 3rd generation Hispanic, but not 1st.
Those from India if they grew up in an affluent house hold and sound like they are from England, but those with a heavy accent no.
My home town has no non-white people. We had 2 half native American kids in school, and I think a 1/4 Hispanic girl. As odd as that sounds I think that helped with not being racist. There were no stereotypes because there was no history of seeing anyone of another race.
When I was in the Sudan, I told people I was Canadian, it was safer. That wasn't a Race thing either.
This may have rambled but I think today there is less racism and more Originism (I know that isn't a word) but I think where you come from matters to people more than the race. That's not better. Just different. It is still beyond your control.
> I find in my day to day interactions that these days Blacks are less discriminated against than many others, but it seems it is now less about color and more about accent.
I totally agree with you. I have experienced lot of stuff by myself that you mentioned.
I am living here in US from last 7.5 yrs. I still have very thick accent. I tried a lot to get rid of it. Even hired an accent trainer but due to lack of time could not practice. At the end, my trainer gave up. I have lost lot of opportunities due to my accent. It is not just my accent, my tone is also so rough that when I speak my voice becomes so rough and it sounds so unpleasant. I think I need throat surgery to speak properly.
I don't blame them who show me off faces. My only complain is they don't even try talking with me. I can see the change in their body language when they see me coming.
Not all are bad. Some people are still very welcoming. I wish there were more of them.
I have seen my European friends getting so warm welcome even though they speak more worst than me. I am not jealous about this. Just sharing how people treat others differently who are from different origins
The USA has a history of doing racism based only on skin colour. But in many other countries there have been "culture" /"ethnicity" based racism. This is what your noticing. Accent (ie. culture/ethnicity) racism.
Personal experience - Few years back went to open an account at a bank BOB, India. In the morning I was in tshirt and jeans and everyone was too busy to help me. Just 3 hours later went in a black formals and I didn't even need to ask them for help. And I've had such experiences quite a few times.
I've had potential landlords spontaneously offer me a discount only because I was white, well-dressed and mentioned a 9 to 5 job. That certainly isn't fair.
This is actually kind of funny. I think this may be tapping into some sort of deep seated in-group/out-group psychology. If you look/act exotic enough that you don't fit within the definition of the out-group, then you clearly must be part of the in-group.
[+] [-] satjot|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HarveyKandola|11 years ago|reply
People seem to remember us more which is no great surprise given we tend to stand out a mile.
Back in my consulting days I used to work a lot at Microsoft offices around the world. For some strange reason no matter which country I was in, the local staff used to assume I was there for a speaking gig!
But I'll never forget the time I went to Argentina -- the whole airport stopped as I got off the plane. I didn't go back there in a hurry...
[+] [-] dmritard96|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomjen3|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mjn|11 years ago|reply
> At the time, ideas of race in America were quite literally black and white.
Not so much America as specifically the south, where white vs. black was the dividing line, and anyone nonblack was "close enough" to white, at least for the purposes of politics and segregation. In the north, where the white-vs.-black line wasn't as front-and-center, dynamics were different, and there was a higher bar for just how white you had to be to really be white. During some parts of the 20th century, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Italians, Indians, etc. wouldn't be allowed entry to "whites-only" establishments in New York, even though they were white enough for a "whites-only" restaurant in Atlanta.
edit: Although now that I think of it, this would probably be true for some things even in the north. For example the "no selling to negroes" deed restrictions in Chicago, as far as I can find, really meant you could sell to anyone except a black person, including some people with quite dark skin. Race is complex, I guess.
[+] [-] pessimizer|11 years ago|reply
http://www.inman.com/2014/04/17/realtor-code-of-ethics-once-...
published in New York: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Motorist_Green_Book
[+] [-] cafard|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] maxdemarzi|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yummyfajitas|11 years ago|reply
I'm now in India and have dated a number of African girls here. I'm very tall, Africans are tall, Indians are short, hence I am the last man on earth. The reaction of Indians is interesting. If they look up at the girl (I.e. they are 5'8", she is 6'2"), they say I should marry her. If they look straight (she is 5'9") they say I should find a white girl.
[+] [-] thesimpsons1022|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] themoonbus|11 years ago|reply
The Christmas party was at a segregated establishment, and they had no idea what to do with him. I think that ultimately they decided that it was ok for "others" to attend, even though by skin color, he was definitely closer to the black end of the spectrum.
Must have been a fun party.
[+] [-] analog31|11 years ago|reply
On the other hand, I had a summer internship during college, where one of the employees was a white guy and wore a turban. He told me that he got searched every time he crossed the border between the US and Canada, during the period before 9-11 when most people just got waved across.
[+] [-] ceejayoz|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tokenadult|11 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Black-Like-50th-Anniversary-Edition/dp...
[+] [-] daviddaviddavid|11 years ago|reply
http://www.amazon.com/Black-No-More-George-Schuyler/dp/04864...
[+] [-] drakaal|11 years ago|reply
I find in my day to day interactions that these days Blacks are less discriminated against than many others, but it seems it is now less about color and more about accent.
Likely what I am seeing is a bias against non-European immigrants.
Being a well spoken Black is fine to hire or hang out with. Someone who looks and sounds like Will I Am, or Quincy Jones, or Colin Powell all good choices. Flavor Flav likely not so much.
The same goes for 3rd generation Hispanic, but not 1st.
Those from India if they grew up in an affluent house hold and sound like they are from England, but those with a heavy accent no.
My home town has no non-white people. We had 2 half native American kids in school, and I think a 1/4 Hispanic girl. As odd as that sounds I think that helped with not being racist. There were no stereotypes because there was no history of seeing anyone of another race.
When I was in the Sudan, I told people I was Canadian, it was safer. That wasn't a Race thing either.
This may have rambled but I think today there is less racism and more Originism (I know that isn't a word) but I think where you come from matters to people more than the race. That's not better. Just different. It is still beyond your control.
[+] [-] mandeepj|11 years ago|reply
I totally agree with you. I have experienced lot of stuff by myself that you mentioned.
I am living here in US from last 7.5 yrs. I still have very thick accent. I tried a lot to get rid of it. Even hired an accent trainer but due to lack of time could not practice. At the end, my trainer gave up. I have lost lot of opportunities due to my accent. It is not just my accent, my tone is also so rough that when I speak my voice becomes so rough and it sounds so unpleasant. I think I need throat surgery to speak properly.
I don't blame them who show me off faces. My only complain is they don't even try talking with me. I can see the change in their body language when they see me coming.
Not all are bad. Some people are still very welcoming. I wish there were more of them.
I have seen my European friends getting so warm welcome even though they speak more worst than me. I am not jealous about this. Just sharing how people treat others differently who are from different origins
[+] [-] rmc|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bhoomit|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jeffasinger|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rectangletangle|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dictum|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] senthil_rajasek|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krishnasrinivas|11 years ago|reply