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Show HN: I'm renting a truck to make buying and selling furniture easier

132 points| ed | 11 years ago |thedealtruck.com | reply

86 comments

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[+] ed|11 years ago|reply
Hey guys, I built this with the team at Fobo.net. It’s just a quick experiment I put together during the week.

The idea is to rent a truck and drive around the city picking up anything you want to sell. Furniture, appliances, etc. – anything of value that fits on a moving truck, as long as it isn't broken, in poor condition, or something you'd typically donate.

At pickup, we photograph your items, put them on the truck, ask for minimum selling prices, and notify SF folks of the deal. Highest bidder after 90 mins gets the item delivered. We have 100’s of interested buyers in SF so far.

Would love feedback. To cover the cost of delivery and movers I ask that you split the final price 50/50 on large items. Happy to wave the cost on more high-end items for now, just ask.

[+] pappyo|11 years ago|reply
Hi Ed, former moving professional here. I love the idea, but I think you have a lot of logistical obstacles to overcome. I thought I'd throw some questions at you to think about (and maybe you have already).

1. What will you do if something breaks? (As the saying goes, if a mover tells you he's never broken anything, he's either lying to you or it's his first day).

2. What will you do to protect yourself against mistaken/fraudulent damage claims? (i.e. Buyer/Seller claims you scratched the DR table, but you didn't).

3. How will you load your truck to maximize space efficiency? The more things you can store on the truck, the more things you can put up for auction. As a mover, the first thing I put into the truck is the last thing I take off [0]. But you can't do this as to the dynamic nature of your business. You always need access to everything on the truck...which is surprisingly harder than it seems.

4. What will you do with breakables (i.e. china, glasses, lamps etc)? Different animal than furniture.

5. If I'm selling a large ticket item, why would I use your service? For example, let's say I bought a couch for $2000 last year and now I want to sell it. I should be able to fetch $1000 for it. If I'm patient, I could probably get as much as $1700. You're taking half. $500-$850 is extremely expensive to list an item on the internet and move it across town.

That said, I wish you luck this weekend.

Edit: General Clean-Up

[0]: http://www.angieslist.com/files/packed-moving-truck.jpg

[+] joosters|11 years ago|reply
Your comment here explains the idea more than the website does. Why on earth don't you put more information on the actual website?
[+] kansface|11 years ago|reply
I like this idea quite a bit. Both selling and buying furniture on CL is a nightmare. I moved to the city 3 years ago from across the country and was forced to sell furnishings for a 3 bedroom house. I don't expect you will have much trouble on the supply side because CL sucks:

1. CL interface is abysmal. No way to tell people stuff already sold or to automatically repost. 2. Dealing with humans was trouble. From time to time, someone would show up and offer a fraction of the asking price. 3. People can't move big stuff. 4. We were particularly time sensitive. We like sleeping on a bed, but we also don't want to be stuck with one. 5. People come by at random times, or don't show at all, or schedule a pickup a 10 days in advance. It would have been great to just load everything at once and be done with it.

I understand you don't want to rent a warehouse, but a 90 minute auction is too short.

On another note, this business model reminds me of modcloth. When they first started, I think they used to travel around and buy up vintage clothes to sell on ebay. Much later, demand outstripped supply so they started contracting out to small shops to make replicas.

[+] shebson|11 years ago|reply
Love this idea! I signed up and am looking forward to seeing what kind of items are available in the coming weeks.

One little thing confused me about the dashboard: I can see that I have "free item alerts" on, but I can't find a way to see if I have alerts on for normal auction items.

In any case, great idea and I'm excited to use it.

[+] mbesto|11 years ago|reply
Get this going in Manhattan. You'll make a killing there.
[+] ritchiea|11 years ago|reply
Great idea. Do buyers ever get to see the items in person before committing to purchase?
[+] raldi|11 years ago|reply
How'd you find hundreds of buyers?
[+] bpowah|11 years ago|reply
A number of random thoughts come to mind. Apologies if this comes across as negative. I like the idea because it makes selling a hassle-free experience, but the way I am imagining it feels inefficient to me. "Free delivery" == $150 for a $300 couch? Or am I missing something? Does your truck sit for 90 mins during the auction? or are you making more pickups? If multitasking, isn't a truck a FILO storage for a FIFO process? Couldn't I sell on CL, get a bigger audience and hire a delivery/mover service if the buyer doesn't have a friend with a pickup truck? If a mover service is more expensive than you, then why? A quick search looks like I can hire a two man moving crew for $75 an hour.
[+] michaelt|11 years ago|reply

  isn't a truck a FILO storage for a FIFO process?
The mean number of items in the van depends on the speed of pick up and drop off vs. the auction time.

If the pick up/drop off team is supposed to dismantle your bed/manhandle your new couch up six flights of stairs/plumb in your new washing machine, they could end up spending 30 to 45 minutes per job, so they'd only have two or three items on the truck at a time. So there could be plenty of free space if they pack it right. Then just staff the truck with two really strong people, who can lift a washing machine over a couch or whatever, and you've got almost-random-access storage :)

Assuming they're handling items in the $100-$500 range, i.e. their cut is $50 to $250, you could afford two guys even if they took 45 minutes per delivery - assuming you had enough demand to keep them working constantly. If they spend half their time on standby because of demand fluctuations, the economics would get more dicey on the lower margin items :)

If they get big enough, you can get vans with multiple side doors which would be more flexible about access [1].

[1] http://www.flickr.com/photos/49959666@N04/7993410449 http://www.flickr.com/photos/49959666@N04/11521462835

[+] vacri|11 years ago|reply
It's an interesting point - cheaper items are not worth the time to the company to drive to pick up and subsequently to deliver, and more expensive items are not worth the cut for the seller, who can get cheaper pickup elsewhere.
[+] ajkjk|11 years ago|reply
I love this idea, but I'd love it even more if you donated stuff if it didn't sell so I didn't have to. Having access to a truck is hard when you live in a city and mostly don't use cars.

And you might want to flesh out a bit more on being a mobile consignment shop. I mean - the problem you're really solving is "I want to buy something on Craigslist, but neither the buyer nor seller have time to move it". No reason that should come with the restrictions of 90 minutes for moving.

[+] malloreon|11 years ago|reply
If they were unscrupulous, they could just claim none of your stuff sold, sell it, and keep 100%. Returning the unsold items keeps them honest.

Not in any way claiming they are, this just makes sense as a policy to build trust with sellers.

[+] _xhok|11 years ago|reply
One thing I notice is that when I hover over the buttons they get shorter. Rather an off-putting hover state to me.
[+] baby|11 years ago|reply
It's because they tried to do a button effect. But they missed the idea. They have to add a top border of color white on the hover.
[+] sensecall|11 years ago|reply
Fixed with:

  .btn:hover {
    margin-top: 1px;
    border-bottom-width: 3px;
    position: relative;
    top: 1px;
    margin-bottom: 1px;
  }
  .btn:active {
    top: 2px;
    border-bottom-width: 2px;
    -webkit-box-shadow: none;
    box-shadow: none;
    margin-bottom: 2px;
    position: relative;
  }
[+] alexjeffrey|11 years ago|reply
seriously? that's all you have to add to the conversation?
[+] n0body|11 years ago|reply
Seems any old idea is great in San Francisco.

For what it's worth, 90 minutes is a very short for an auction, and only getting 50% is daylight robbery

[+] pessimizer|11 years ago|reply
If they do a lot of business, and buy more trucks and get more employees - and if not them, the competition after people discover that this is a viable business model - the 50% might lower with economies of scale giving them more room to take a reasonable profit.

Depends on how fast they can keep those trucks moving. I'd start investing in some math and software implementing that math in order to optimize those routes. You could tie it right into the auction website and give all the drivers webapps feeding them their next pickup/dropoff points. You would be able to charge based on distance/size calculated on the fly. I see room for making this really cheap. If you wrote good software for it, you could license the platform and not even actually do the business - this is a natural franchise.

Sorry, just rambling. I think this idea is great if done well.

[+] CaveTech|11 years ago|reply
Daylight robbery of whatever you're willing to put on a truck and blindly sell to the highest bidder in the next 90 minutes?

If you have something of value, chances are you're not going to be using the above.

[+] Scoundreller|11 years ago|reply
Presumably people can or will be able to set up an RSS feed for items they're looking for (like a couch, bed, TV, etc.), and the truck company will standardize on terms to make it easy to see.

50% isn't that bad (or a whole lot) when a lot of the items won't be going for much anyway.

I'd see an upsell existing where you could pay $5 or $10 (or $1/lb) to extend the auction by, say, 24hrs.

The biggest problem I see is with a lot of leases ending at the change of the calendar month, there will be a surplus of items at the end of the month (as people have to leave), and a lot of demand at the beginning of the month (as people move in).

[+] qq66|11 years ago|reply
Furniture is very illiquid because of the transportation hassles. I bought three desks that had retailed for $500 each, for $33 each. That person would have been happy to get 50%.
[+] ghaff|11 years ago|reply
In general, it seems as if there might be a market for people who want to get rid of stuff but want to expend near-zero effort doing so even if it means significantly sub-optimizing the revenue received (I raise hand for most any item under $100 or that is a pain to ship/offload.)

I'm fine with getting 50% for stuff that would otherwise sit in my attic or garage. That said, I suspect that this is a tough business. From what I can gather, most of the eBay-based versions of this have pretty much died out.

Edit: And I should add that, for anything that's bulky or a pain to deal with, I want it gone. I guess I'd be OK with smaller consignment items being returned but not furniture.

[+] analog31|11 years ago|reply
I like the idea that the truck is the warehouse. Of course it's an issue to get an item out if it's buried, but that's just a limitation on how tight you can pack the truck.

Putting things on pallets might let you slide them around and manage the space better. Also, I don't know the weather in SF, but I'd never trust the floor of a box truck to stay dry in the Midwest, and pallets keep things off the floor.

A make-or-break will be how much unsold stuff you end up driving around. I wonder if there's some way you can discourage stratospheric speculative pricing, by offering a better commission if the seller lets you set the starting price.

[+] KhalPanda|11 years ago|reply
Regarding buried goods - it depends on the truck. I don't know about the US, but in the UK curtain-sided lorries aren't uncommon, making it relatively easy to access pretty much ever part of the trailer.
[+] tungwaiyip|11 years ago|reply
I'm really scratching my head. Does it mean load the item to the truck, find a buyer, then delivery to him without dropping it in a warehouse?

I don't think this is going to work. What makes you think there will be an eager buyer? Used furniture is not a very liquid market. Sellers typically ask for more than buyers is willing to pay. It takes time to find a match. Some items will not find a buyer after a long time or never. That's why we need a warehouse.

[+] pappyo|11 years ago|reply
If I am a seller, what is my motivation to use your product? I could easily post my things on CL, tell the buyers to come pick up, and I get full price for my stuff. Where do you add value to the seller where CL doesn't?
[+] ryandrake|11 years ago|reply
Selling on CL is a huge annoyance. I've tried to sell a number of things there, and mostly get flaky "buyers" who never respond back after their initial "I'm interested" message. Then you have the problem of giving your home address to a stranger. I'd be open to trying this service if they ever expand out to the East Bay. I've got a bunch of stuff in my garage I'd love to sell, but the existing channels (CL, eBay, etc.) are total pains in the ass.
[+] toomuchtodo|11 years ago|reply
> I could easily post my things on CL, tell the buyers to come pick up, and I get full price for my stuff. Where do you add value to the seller where CL doesn't?

What fantasy land do you live in where this happens? I have never had a time it didn't take me at least 2-3 times to sell something, the buyer is a hassle to deal with if the item is large and needs a suitable vehicle for transport, and they want to haggle once they're on site.

[+] kansface|11 years ago|reply
Most people don't have trucks and you don't have to deal with CL- reposting every 12 hours, dealing with people who want to pay half the agreed upon price at the door, telling people where you live, etc etc.
[+] chaostheory|11 years ago|reply
Most people don't like having strangers come to where they live, especially when they're advertising expensive items.
[+] avalaunch|11 years ago|reply
I think you may run into issues of too many items not selling if you allow the owners to set the minimum. Perhaps you could offer a lower percentage cut if the owner agrees to a no minimum auction.
[+] stefan_kendall3|11 years ago|reply
I wish you luck, but I don't see how this is sustainably profitable. People think their junk is worth way more than it is, and "minimum price" will wreck this.
[+] mr_luc|11 years ago|reply
I think an easy answer would be a "stocking fee" if the item doesn't sell.

That will encourage people to pick a price others might jump at. Some fine-tuning would of course be required.

[+] ryandrake|11 years ago|reply
Not sure if anyone's tried this (probably tons have), but what would be even better for sellers, would be some kind of a mobile pawn shop, that shows up at your door, cleans out your garage of all the crap you'd otherwise toss away or donate, but would rather have a few bucks for, and then re-sells it all on their own time. I'd choose that any day over holding a "traditional" garage sale.
[+] beenpoor|11 years ago|reply
This is actually a nice idea. Lots of potential. Congrats on building a MVP! Few things that come to my mind - 50/50 split seems pricey! - How about you do it differently ? pick up only those that have guaranteed buyer and you take a commision from both seller and buyer
[+] ultimoo|11 years ago|reply
On a side note, how is the bed bug situation in SF? Is it typically safe to buy used furniture?

When I used to live in San Jose, it was common knowledge to not buy any furniture from the downtown area since it almost always brought in bed bugs.

[+] ars|11 years ago|reply
I can't answer your question, but you could quarantine the furniture for 6 months at high temperature (100-120f), like in a typical attic in summer.
[+] nobodysfool|11 years ago|reply
I can see it working maybe, but still, it seems like you could just put something up on CL just as easy, and nobody is going to pick up your stuff and return it, they will just pick it up when they buy it.
[+] unreal37|11 years ago|reply
Having recently sold some furniture on CL, the number one problem buyers said was "I want this but can you deliver?" Nobody has transportation for big furniture. It's a source of friction between buyers and sellers for sure.
[+] gravity13|11 years ago|reply
Yeah but it removes the need to trek across town to pick something up. It's much easier for buyers.
[+] fuzzythinker|11 years ago|reply
Wish list:

- Make the list of items available online without signup

- At the minimum, don't require a phone#, ask for email instead if you don't want list to be public for some reason

No way giving away my phone# even if you promise no spams.

[+] Raphmedia|11 years ago|reply
Fix the hover effect on the buttons. The click too. Don't remove the border, make it white. Or if you remove it, put a margin that is the same height as the border was.
[+] natch|11 years ago|reply
Why do I need to provide a password to change stuff later? Couldn't you do it just with a text confirmation?
[+] theklub|11 years ago|reply
I love the idea, I get that its an experiment and I'm interested in seeing what happens. Good luck!!
[+] elyrly|11 years ago|reply
This should create a niche market within the used furniture market with comfortable ease.