It really bothers me, how bad the Google's support is, especially for the products that make them money. It's common knowledge that they can close your advertiser's profile, lock the money and you won't be able to reach them about it. But at the same time, nobody is making a lot of noise about it, although it is a multi-billion dollar company and it is the product that they make most of their money from. Most of B2B start ups that wind up in "Show HN" have better support than Google!
But no one is doing anything, because what can you do — switch another context ad system designed for another search engine? Yeah, right. This is the classical monopoly example, that no one does anything about.
Google support is terrible, but they get away with it because they are a near monopoly in on online advertising.
What blows my mind is people that know how bad Google support can be, and they still build their business around Google services (Google Apps for Business, Cloud Computing, Google Wallet, etc). Amazon, Rackspace and many others aren't much more expensive and you get world-class customer service.
I guess they don't want to open the floodgates to all the support queries they would get. But it is most frustrating as if one is dealing with the "computer says no" travel agent from Little Britain.
Google adwords is not for small advertisers. Period. It may work fine if you spend millions of dollars or if you have so much time and experience in your hands that losing money is not a problem, but it doesn't work for the general population.
When I saw the title my initial thought was, "here we go, another person complaining about Adwords who probably just doesn't have the time to fully understand the intricacies of the platform."
But this was a legit bug! Google made a clear mistake. I didn't see it in the post, but did you ever explicitly ask for a refund? If it were me I would certainly be demanding my money back for any clicks associated with the bug.
Note: the nicer you're to customer service agents when you plead your case, the more likely they're to help you out. I'm not suggesting you were mean, just a general tip when trying to get an issue resolved, especially when dealing with big companies.
The forwarding number was wrong but the Austin, Texas part was never proven though right? Was he using a Texas IP/VPN/fresh browser when searching results for it?
Well this is unfortunate. I would have expected Google to credit your account accordingly, though.
A couple of years ago, we noticed massive automated click fraud that Google's fraud detection algorithms didn't seem to catch (which was kind of strange since all the clicks came from the same IP). However, after sending over some HTTP logs to Google, they removed all the invalid clicks from our account within a day or so.
I would definitely try to get my money back in your case.
I need to second this, you've done a great job of keeping a level head and focussing on getting the issue sorted. Now it is sorted and they've admitted fault it's time to follow up and ask for your money back.
We spend quite a bit of money on AdWords every day, and I started managing the account a few weeks ago (hand-off from an agency) and it's been a fantastic challenge to brush up on that part of my skill-set again. However, it's kind of weird that their numbers never really match up with ours, typically overreported, and I pray that we never run into an issue like the one you have had.
On the bright side, at least AdWords numbers are predictably off (about 15% overreported, on average.) Facebook Ads numbers overreport anywhere from 10% to 100%, so that's the one I worry about on a day to day basis.
Seconded; the support people basically did state it was an error on their side, so a full refund sounds obvious. Maybe even a compensation for damages, since you probably lost a lot of potential customers.
No credit to the account? Definitely pursue this! Absolutely, definitely pursue this. Find out why the number was wrong, find out why the technical team had to change it, find out how long it was wrong for, establish whose fault it was, tot up how much it cost you, and definitely ask for a refund!
Just think if this was your personal money, what would you do? If you just take the hit, the money doesn't mean enough to you.
This is interesting because it touches on a larger topic, what I call the Google bias. It is the bias that assumes that the search results from Google are the correct and most relevant results, when, in fact, they are simply the results that are the ones Google wishes / can output.
When I do a search for topics or resources that I come across on here on HN or Reddit or other sources that are extremely valuable and informative and useful, there is almost no chance that you can find those resources simply by doing a google search. That's only a small, anecdotal example, but it indicates a larger issue to me; like the top couple snowflakes that are sitting on top of the tip of the iceberg.
They have always been pretty good about refunding me when directly requested and presented with evidence. I think you need to directly ask for a refund, but since this situation is public now it might not be as simple.
Hello from Google's automated help system. I see you mentioned the word "refund" in your long winded email which would have fully explained your situation to a human.
Yeah yeah, that sounds great. The problem is, how do you verify some of Adwords' metrics and stats? There are so many ways that the service could screw up without you even being aware of it.
Even in the example given (where the OP could see a wrong telephone number), how could they know how often it had been shown wrongly, and how many people had called? Only Google knows (or could know). You have to trust them, but you cannot verify them.
Even if you come up with your own metrics to monitor Adwords, why would Google believe your numbers over theirs?
This guy doesn't have log files? This is basic stuff. There are even hundreds of companies out there who will verify many aspects of Google AdWords for you.
Is this really level of flailing emotion people bring to their customer service interactions?
"It's just super frustrating because we spend like $300/day!"
How about: "We have been spending $300/day, and an error on Google's part means we are not being provided the service we are paying for. We need to know that this is fixed and then will need to discuss our past spend with someone who can act on crediting our account. Here's how we can replicate the problem."
You aren't their buddy. You are not asking for a "solid." You are a business owner, not some tweener boy that smudged their new white kicks.
"you can also just search it now. it's still screwed up."
Own the facts and deliver them without emotional loading.
"Screwed up" is inaccurate and unprofessional - whiney in context with the "super frustrated" quip above.
"You can also just..." leaves room for a different set of facts.
Give a detailed description of the path you took and the results. If the results aren't obviously incorrect, define that issue. Repeat the desired outcome.
And, if you have "a meeting" and can't get the issue resolved, then you should have someone else make the call who can grind it out or schedule abundant time for dealing with this - or maybe $300/day and the previous spend isn't all that much and you should just walk away from AdWords...
You'd be better off penning blog articles that break down perfect grass types and pros/cons of various herbicides for the locality of McLean than crapping investor cash on advertising in the unseen margins of the search results.
Lawn care is definitely a word of mouth and signs in green yard growth business. I'd ask neighbors before trusting anyone who pays for AdWords, because my bill for lawn care pays for those AdWords and a good lawn care company doesn't need ads.
Most every service I've courted that does big ad spends on Google charges more for the same or worse service than other providers.
golergka|11 years ago
But no one is doing anything, because what can you do — switch another context ad system designed for another search engine? Yeah, right. This is the classical monopoly example, that no one does anything about.
ksk|11 years ago
In what way was the support inadequate with regards to this article? It seems to me Google responded pretty quickly and resolved this persons issue.
jobu|11 years ago
What blows my mind is people that know how bad Google support can be, and they still build their business around Google services (Google Apps for Business, Cloud Computing, Google Wallet, etc). Amazon, Rackspace and many others aren't much more expensive and you get world-class customer service.
easytiger|11 years ago
coliveira|11 years ago
hellbreakslose|11 years ago
[deleted]
rcarrigan87|11 years ago
But this was a legit bug! Google made a clear mistake. I didn't see it in the post, but did you ever explicitly ask for a refund? If it were me I would certainly be demanding my money back for any clicks associated with the bug.
Note: the nicer you're to customer service agents when you plead your case, the more likely they're to help you out. I'm not suggesting you were mean, just a general tip when trying to get an issue resolved, especially when dealing with big companies.
dmix|11 years ago
rbinv|11 years ago
A couple of years ago, we noticed massive automated click fraud that Google's fraud detection algorithms didn't seem to catch (which was kind of strange since all the clicks came from the same IP). However, after sending over some HTTP logs to Google, they removed all the invalid clicks from our account within a day or so.
I would definitely try to get my money back in your case.
hrktb|11 years ago
> Edit: Since people keep asking, no my account wasn’t credited.
josealicarte|11 years ago
simonbarker87|11 years ago
simonswords82|11 years ago
csbrooks|11 years ago
Not to say they won't give a refund, but I'm guessing their lawyers have things setup so they aren't obligated to.
JonLim|11 years ago
We spend quite a bit of money on AdWords every day, and I started managing the account a few weeks ago (hand-off from an agency) and it's been a fantastic challenge to brush up on that part of my skill-set again. However, it's kind of weird that their numbers never really match up with ours, typically overreported, and I pray that we never run into an issue like the one you have had.
On the bright side, at least AdWords numbers are predictably off (about 15% overreported, on average.) Facebook Ads numbers overreport anywhere from 10% to 100%, so that's the one I worry about on a day to day basis.
Cthulhu_|11 years ago
Seconded; the support people basically did state it was an error on their side, so a full refund sounds obvious. Maybe even a compensation for damages, since you probably lost a lot of potential customers.
imdsm|11 years ago
Just think if this was your personal money, what would you do? If you just take the hit, the money doesn't mean enough to you.
spindritf|11 years ago
wasyl|11 years ago
wahsd|11 years ago
When I do a search for topics or resources that I come across on here on HN or Reddit or other sources that are extremely valuable and informative and useful, there is almost no chance that you can find those resources simply by doing a google search. That's only a small, anecdotal example, but it indicates a larger issue to me; like the top couple snowflakes that are sitting on top of the tip of the iceberg.
unknown|11 years ago
[deleted]
alecco|11 years ago
eli|11 years ago
Cthulhu_|11 years ago
newman8r|11 years ago
IanDrake|11 years ago
You can apply for a refund here: https://support.google.com/adwords/refund/procedures
Was this response helpful?
Yes: https://support.google.com/adwords/Yes
No: https://support.google.com/adwords/FuckOff
mnw21cam|11 years ago
joosters|11 years ago
Even in the example given (where the OP could see a wrong telephone number), how could they know how often it had been shown wrongly, and how many people had called? Only Google knows (or could know). You have to trust them, but you cannot verify them.
Even if you come up with your own metrics to monitor Adwords, why would Google believe your numbers over theirs?
for_i_in_range|11 years ago
[deleted]
rwmj|11 years ago
pistle|11 years ago
"It's just super frustrating because we spend like $300/day!"
How about: "We have been spending $300/day, and an error on Google's part means we are not being provided the service we are paying for. We need to know that this is fixed and then will need to discuss our past spend with someone who can act on crediting our account. Here's how we can replicate the problem."
You aren't their buddy. You are not asking for a "solid." You are a business owner, not some tweener boy that smudged their new white kicks.
"you can also just search it now. it's still screwed up."
Own the facts and deliver them without emotional loading. "Screwed up" is inaccurate and unprofessional - whiney in context with the "super frustrated" quip above.
"You can also just..." leaves room for a different set of facts.
Give a detailed description of the path you took and the results. If the results aren't obviously incorrect, define that issue. Repeat the desired outcome.
And, if you have "a meeting" and can't get the issue resolved, then you should have someone else make the call who can grind it out or schedule abundant time for dealing with this - or maybe $300/day and the previous spend isn't all that much and you should just walk away from AdWords...
You'd be better off penning blog articles that break down perfect grass types and pros/cons of various herbicides for the locality of McLean than crapping investor cash on advertising in the unseen margins of the search results.
Lawn care is definitely a word of mouth and signs in green yard growth business. I'd ask neighbors before trusting anyone who pays for AdWords, because my bill for lawn care pays for those AdWords and a good lawn care company doesn't need ads.
Most every service I've courted that does big ad spends on Google charges more for the same or worse service than other providers.