Silicon Valley: Where highly paid ($100-$200k+) engineers sleep in cars to save money on obscenely expensive rent.
Honestly, recently moving to Seattle has been refreshing to me in this regard. I find Seattle tech industry pay no less than SF, plus no state income tax, and for the same rent as SF you can practically live like a king/queen here.
I wonder how long the housing situation in SV can keep up until everything collapses under its own weight?
Don't extrapolate based on one sensationalistic article.
Most engineers employed at Google (or any other company) in Silicon Valley have enough to rent or even buy houses. Actually, a lot of other workers who make one half (or even less) that salary manage as well.
People who choose to live in cars or on campus have something else going on with them. It's not just about money, most of us will always choose to have their own place, no matter how small, than living this kind of life.
I don't doubt what the Quora discussion describes happens, I'm just claiming these are very few and far between exceptions.
I've been living in the Bay Area since the dotcom days and they've been asking the same question since I've been around. Until people in tech stop making money, I doubt SV will collapse, but it will go through boom and bust cycles. But the booms tend to be huge and the busts tend to be not as bad.
I had the opportunity to get a job in Seattle at Amazon about 10 years ago. I would have taken a paycut, but with the 0% state income tax and with the generous signing bonus it would have more than made up the difference. (I'm pretty sure property taxes are higher though.)
But then I had to contemplate exchanging 300 days of sunshine for 200 days of rain. At the time, I was playing rollerhockey outdoors at 8pm and came to the conclusion that I just couldn't do it because of the weather. And I grew up in Vancouver, BC so the rain didn't bother me as much, but I just got too spoiled by the amazing Bay Area weather. If you're not used to it, the rain in the Pacific Northwest truly is relentless, so it takes getting used to.
Mind you that was during the time when rent prices were high but not as ludicrous like they are now. Even during the dotcom boom there were similar stories of people living in their vans, so it's not really a new story.
But my friend was charged 5100/month for a 2 bedroom at mission bay, which doesn't make sense. If I had to make the same choice now, it would be a lot harder to make and Seattle is definitely compelling if you can get past the 200 days of rain.
Rent in central cities is one of the unintuitive outcomes of the modern economy. SV might be an extreme example, but it isn't the only one. The world is far more globalized. People work with clients, customers, and coworkers mostly through the internet, even if they are in the same building or city.
Google's a good example. They have offices all over. They have clients everywhere.
Common sense would dictate that employees would be easier to hire for the same cost elsewhere where that salary affords a better lifestyle. With all due respect to SF (last time I visited I was 12), there are lots of places where a $140k salary will get you the best schools for kids, entertainment for the adults and palatial digs. It is quite literally like doubling you salary to take it someplace else, even within the US.
I wonder what the reasons are. Obviously clusters matter. There's the tautology that everyone wants what everyone wants. Being someplace vibrant and affluent is valuable to the resident & employees (or resident-employees). I also think that nominal salaries are important to people's decision making. A 25% pay cut from relocation resulting in a 10% cut in after tax salary but a real measurable and provable increase in purchasing power still feels like a 25% pay cut.
> Silicon Valley: Where highly paid ($100-$200k+) engineers sleep in cars to save money on obscenely expensive rent.
I've known quite a few people who have lived exactly like this for a while. You know what? None are from Silicon Valley and are all from different walks of life. You have your people who ended up in difficult situations, people strapped for cash, people who were ultra minimalist, people who were looking for adventure, people who didn't want to be tied down, people looking to save up money for a couple years. None had Google's perks/free meals. All different motivations. Some by choice, some not.
To generalize that Silicon Valley is somehow responsible from one article about one subset of people is disingenuous.
Well first you'd need NY to collapse to prove that dynamic work locations collapse under their own weight. Young people (fresh out of school) really have few needs and so will put up with a lot for the experience of working with great people for great companies. It doesn't hurt that the weather is also fantastic (weather crushes NY but culturally NY has so much more to offer). It's only when they hit their 30's and (if they do) start thinking about children that broader quality of life issues come into play. Those that are very successful can afford to stay there. Those that aren't will move on to cheaper metros or somewhere else. Many that are successful will still realize there are other options (the realization that Tahoe never is closer than a 6 hour commute unless you leave at 4am or 10pm) and move away (making way for the next generation).
There's a reason those trains to CT are so full of people every night.
It's weird. There has always been some water-cooler talk among the engineers about how it would be possible to live on campus. But these journalists actually found people who've done it. And they're engineers; most of our speculation focused on interns.
It's coming to Seattle too. I moved away from SEA 3 years ago and the rent on my old apartment has gone up by 50%. If you want to stick around, consider buying.
Anecdotally I've been hearing more Valley-style anti-tech sentiment coming out of Seattle lately. If not careful Seattle can just as easily turn into the same us vs. them, haves vs. have-nots story of San Francisco.
It'll just be the MS Connector instead of the Google Bus instead.
Isn't a huge part of the housing issue in SV the zoning? I recall reading about how large swathes of land have been zoned away from residential, largely because of the influence of the wealthy who live in and near the area. Never underestimate the politics!
That is a silly generalization, I'm not going to generalize about people in Seattle who live on boats even though I know a couple of folks who do that.
There is a push afoot to get Google (and then by reaction everyone) to treat the perks they give as taxable income. I expect it is being "encouraged" by companies that don't want to pay for that kind of thing as a way of killing it. Unfortunately if they are successful I expect it to backfire, Google to continue to do it and to cover the tax aspects and the other companies being forced to follow suit.
No matter how high the income, you will find an obsessively frugal person given large enough group. Whether he/she will end up sleeping in car is more function of local security, available free facilities (toilette, shower) around and how much is his/her job image dependent.
We had a contractor in Xbox who was let go. They snuck back into the building and lived there for a number of weeks (not sure how many), pretending to work and hanging out in our various couch areas during the day. [Someone quipped: "Not much different than certain full-time employees."]
I've known a few people who lived in vans / RVs in the company parking lots. (Ironically, the guy whose van had the ATARI vanity license plate was one of the first to be let go in the crash of 1982).
A friend of mine lives in the Sierra mountains, and used to RV down to Silly Valley for a week or two at a time. Really pretty convenient. Once he was parked underneath the flight path for Moffet Field around the time that Air Force One was scheduled to fly in, and the Secret Service politely asked him to move his RV.
Does anyone else feels like we're really getting towards the cyberpunk universe ?
with corporations that completely own the life of their employees by providing them with everything, and a violent lawless and miserable outside world.
And as always, it all started with the best intentions.
Keep in mind that factory / company mine towns used to be a thing. The cyberpunk dystopia you are alluding to is extrapolating company town lifestyle into the future.
That isn't totally fair, but a lot of Chinese workers live in small shared rooms provided by their employer, they then send money "home" to their villages.
I wouldn't call China lawless, but it is is a bit miserable, particularly if you get fired from a job.
Yeah, I have that fear too. But more with the recent "sharing" movement.
People talk about sharing and stopping to own stuff you don't need. Which is probably a good idea, if one person owns a car and 10 use it when they need it.
But it stops when companies are in play. When they end up owning everything, we're all in trouble.
Cadbury (the chocolate people) built a rather nice sounding village for their workers when they moved out of the centre of a city so they could expand their factory:
Some companies still provide (everything) for employees who are highly mobile. An obvious example would be container ship crew.
But I am also aware of defence companies that take on apprentices at 18, ship them across the country, and provide a room and free cafeteria meals. The company feel that, kids that age are still kids, and need looking after while they transition to independence in the same way as kids that go to university instead (dorms).
Reminds me of a book I read sometime back, where Employees lived on campuses, ate bio designed meat, produced bio engineered pets, products that enhanced artificial sense of well being while a biological catastrophe engulfed the outside world (mostly because of bio engineered products that these companies produced).
I can't see to recall the name of the book though. Soon enough we will be getting there though.
>Does anyone else feels like we're really getting towards the cyberpunk universe
No. The current top voted comment in this thread is a guy who's telling everyone how to live out of a van. Hint: it's so safe outside the corporate safe zones that he can park his car in a parking lot and sleep there without worrying about being hassled by anyone.
nah, most housing problems can be traced to regulation, usually of the sort that if you dig deep enough is, we don't want their type here. Hide it behind protecting the environment, quality of life, or whatnot.
Well, the author has clearly never car camped or worked operations before:
"It's not clear what the Googlers like Discoe did when they had to go to the bathroom at night."
They went to the bathroom of course, just like you would in the day. Its not like toilets are solar powered and don't work after dark. If you work there and have an ID and walk past the guard at 2am and walk past leaving a couple minutes later, they simply don't care. "He must have been called in to reboot a server or something". Also although I am a morning person the world has no shortage of night persons and my experience in a 300 person building is I never heard of it being empty although it could happen, and at a 800 person building I don't think we ever, not even on holidays at 3am, dropped below six people.
I did this on a 6 month contract as an experiment over a mild winter in the UK in 2011. You can pretty much do this anywhere.
Couple of tricks:
1) Get a small camper/van that can park in one car parking space with a diesel heating system. Kitchen is irrelevant. Bed/toilet/heating system/space to sit and type/space for clothes to hang.
2) You need a toilet but usually you time your bowel movements to only need to use it as a urinal unless you decide to go for a crazy hot curry
3) Find a local sports centre (not gym) with a sauna. Go for a swim in the morning, spend the evenings working out or hanging out in the sauna (you get regulars).
4) Bank of leisure batteries in your van (to drive the heater and give your laptop power), can give you the power to live for weeks inside your van. Luckily I went home every weekend to recharge them. If you can't get a power source connection (friend etc.), then consider covering your roof in solar power cells.
5) Unlimited mobile data plan that allows tethering.
6) Clubs/Meetup/Work social groups (CRITICAL).
7) No it's not 'hot' to invite a girl back to your van in a car park.
8) Scout the areas and work out where to sleep. Sleeping on a road can mean you get traffic buzzing you from 5am. Go find a really quiet road or lay by. Use retail park car parks if they don't have security patrols. Remember you're parking up at work during the day. You only really turn up after the gym at 8pm or later and leave by 8am.
9) It's quite liberating. Want to wake up next to the sea and go for a swim....yes you can.
10) Be proud of what you are doing. The limited space you have frees you from clutter.
11) Do crazy things...like continue to run an ebay magic card sales business inside the van!
12) Cold is your enemy. When winter hit hard, the issue was the driver cabin and the rear doors. Two cheap double duvets insulated the rest of the van from those cold spaces.
13) Go stealth mode if possible. No windows on the sides of the van, roof windows are perfect. You want somebody to think there is no one in the van.
14) Layout can be interesting, but I prefer bed at back on a removable platform, storage under neath, rear door 'insulated'. Sliding door opens into a space with bench and toilet under bench. Blackout curtains between driver cabin and rear area. Lockable from the inside.
15) Always go for a van you can stand in.
16) Check your drinking laws. In the UK sleeping in the back of a van is legal if drunk.
17) Going to repeat this. Scout out your area and work out great un-disturb-able places. A quiet car park in the centre of town may have a lot of pedestrians walking through it at 2am going back from clubs. Go for those parks/spaces that are not natural through routes. You will get into a routine. You'll end up parking in the same place on the same night of the week.
18) Be social. Get out of that space. Do not go back to the van and lock yourself away and watch stuff on the internet. GET OUT.
Slightly on the big side, but it worked at the time. If I was going to do it again, I would custom build. Height for me being 6'2 is always going to be an issue. I would consider a normal height van but bending over all the time is not my thing.
In most other jobs, if you could not afford to make rent, or had other commitments that drained your income, you could not find the resources at work to even attempt this.
If they are lenient on this sort of thing, you could use this for other purposes. You decide to move and your leases don't quite line up, saving money to buy a house (as mentioned in the article)...
I did this for a couple of months at my university, having failed to secure accommodation at the end of a rental period. Slept variously in an electron microscopy suite, a darkroom, and a rarely used bathroom. Wasn't too bad, though there was the omnipresent fear of campus security twigging on. As this was in London I saved quite a decent wad of cash in rent. Wouldn't do it again though unless I was particularly desperate.
A friend and ex-cow-orker of mine had a nice little space in the ceiling tiles in one of CMU's machine rooms (probably late 1970s). He had a bed, a microwave oven and some other creature comforts.
I knew a programmer who did this in Baltimore, a much less expensive city, particularly then. In his case, it was probably the domestic uncertainty brought on by late-onset adolescence--he was forty or so and divorced. Even allowing for the expenses that brought on, he could probably have afforded to rent a rowhouse in a safe-enough neighborhood, but I think he couldn't quite focus on that.
I can speak to this happening at a major visual effects facility in the Los Angeles area. There was one developer (a guy who developed Academy Award-winning volumetric rendering software) who was able to live out of a mobile home parked in the main parking lot. This was around '99-01 or so - they're no longer in the same location and I'm sure the current ownership would throw a fit if someone tried it today. You could pretty much get away with anything at Venice Beach in the 90s.
If you have to resort to living in your car while working at Google or other such big companies, there is something wrong with the way one looks at life. Unless there are exigent circumstances, like you were bankrupt for whatever reason, or you are a fresh grad with nothing but time on your hands, this is not ok.
Perhaps behemoths like Google could literally build company towns in the vicinity of their campuses with heavily subsidised rents. I'm not even being sarcastic here - I live in Ireland and until recently worked as an engineer for Google in Dublin. With 3k+ folks there - most young and single and not much into commuting - a few square miles around the campus is just a 'Google ghetto'. Some folks even happily connect to the office wifi using various contraptions. The only difference between that and a 'company town' is higher rents. I'd imagine that would work even better in SV where rents are outrageous as compared to Dublin, IE.
With regards to the original article I can testify to knowing a guy on the MTV campus who did that for a little while. To be fair his manager eventually got involved and told him to find either an apartment or a new job.
The author William Vollmann comically wrote about doing this at a San Francisco (I think?) software shop when he was young and writing his first novel. Living off of vendor-machine candy bars, dodging the janitor, etc ... Probably my favorite parts were how he confessed having no bloody clue what he was doing when faced with the thing he was being paid to do: write code ...
As with any fiction author, the details are probably exaggerated, and he particularly tends toward a certain kind of luxuriant self-deprecation, so, pinch of salt and all ...
I believe the dueling meta-narrators of his first book, You Bright and Risen Angels, were also programmers, or something like that. It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember Electric Emily's origin story and the parts where the programmer-narrators fucked with the "source code" of the narrative being my favorite parts.
I guess I'm wondering if Google actually cares. Seems like if they think it will help employee productivity to let them hangout at work 24/7 then seems like a win for everyone. Maybe they formalize it and set up a few bunk beds with lockers or something. Doesn't seem out of the question.
Honestly, not that surprised. I basically live at my co-working space. Showers, lots of comfy desks, couches and bean bag chairs, well equipped kitchen (gotta buy your ingredients though), well heated, even at night.
Apparently someone lived there for a couple months before someone found out.
I did this for a while when I was working at Sun but it wasn't to avoid rent (I paid rent) it was to avoid my commute. When I was in full on work mode I viewed the commute as too much of a time drain (I lived in San Francisco, Sun was in Mountain View, 30 minutes without traffic, closer to an hour with. Each way. Blech.)
I had two VW vans parked next to each other, one was set up as a "bedroom", the other was set up as the "living room" and was also my daily driver. It worked pretty well if you don't count social life (I didn't have one).
I lived in an office for a few months once. I did not have a car, so I was actually staying inside. It was not worth the savings. Especially since the rent in that city was far lower than in the places discussed in the article. No bed. Worrying about security (even though I made friends with the main night-shift guard). Worrying about people finding out. Worrying about people finding my caches of possessions. Etcetera. Not worth the stress.
As an executive at a nonprofit, I was renting an apartment several blocks from my office. The apartment building was purchased by a developer who proceeded to convert them to condos. I was offered some money (I think $1500 or so) to end my lease early. I was planning on leaving the country in a few months anyway, so I took the money, and just moved all my belongings into my office.
I stored my clothes in an otherwise-unused filing cabinet, took showers at a gym a few blocks away, and slept on the floor, with just a blanket and pillow. The biggest problem was laundry; the nearest laundromat was pretty far away and I didn't have a car. I ended up strapping a sack full of clothes to the back of my bicycle and riding a couple miles to the laundromat every weekend.
I had a private room with a door that closed, but everyone at the office knew what I was doing. The only conceit was that I claimed that it was only temporary until I could find the right place to move into; in reality I found it so convenient and cheap that I stayed for over a year (until I did, in fact, leave the country). One Friday night, I even had a friend stay over; he slept on a couch in someone else's room.
Our organization rented a suite in a larger building, and every morning when I woke up and went to the restroom, I saw other people seemingly doing the same thing. One guy even went to the restroom every morning in a bathrobe. From about 6-7AM it reminded me a truck stop restroom, with people brushing their teeth and giving themselves sponge-baths at the sink. There are zoning laws that prohibit people from sleeping in offices, but I think the property manager didn't really care as long as everyone was reasonably discreet.
There were a few significant disadvantages. First, there was no kitchen. I had an electric kettle that I used to cook ramen, which I would add eggs and canned meat and vegatables to, but that was about it, except for eating out. There were plenty of nice restaurants nearby, and I had plenty of extra money from not paying rent, so it was not a huge problem.
Second, personal mail. The US Postal Service has a policy of not forwarding mail, addressed to an individual at a commercial address, to a residential address. This meant that when I forwarded my mail from my apartment to my office, I couldn't later forward my mail from my office to somewhere else.
Third, the gym was not open on holidays. On Thanksgiving and Christmas, I went to my parents' house anyway, so I just took a shower there. But for other holidays like Labor Day and Independence Day, I had to do without a shower.
I would do it again. Actually, I would even consider just renting an office instead of an apartment to live in. Generally speaking, office space is cheaper, easier to rent, and more centrally located than housing. These days though, I'm married, and my wife would not be so enthusiastic.
[+] [-] electrograv|11 years ago|reply
Honestly, recently moving to Seattle has been refreshing to me in this regard. I find Seattle tech industry pay no less than SF, plus no state income tax, and for the same rent as SF you can practically live like a king/queen here.
I wonder how long the housing situation in SV can keep up until everything collapses under its own weight?
[+] [-] zak_mc_kracken|11 years ago|reply
Most engineers employed at Google (or any other company) in Silicon Valley have enough to rent or even buy houses. Actually, a lot of other workers who make one half (or even less) that salary manage as well.
People who choose to live in cars or on campus have something else going on with them. It's not just about money, most of us will always choose to have their own place, no matter how small, than living this kind of life.
I don't doubt what the Quora discussion describes happens, I'm just claiming these are very few and far between exceptions.
[+] [-] stevewepay|11 years ago|reply
I had the opportunity to get a job in Seattle at Amazon about 10 years ago. I would have taken a paycut, but with the 0% state income tax and with the generous signing bonus it would have more than made up the difference. (I'm pretty sure property taxes are higher though.)
But then I had to contemplate exchanging 300 days of sunshine for 200 days of rain. At the time, I was playing rollerhockey outdoors at 8pm and came to the conclusion that I just couldn't do it because of the weather. And I grew up in Vancouver, BC so the rain didn't bother me as much, but I just got too spoiled by the amazing Bay Area weather. If you're not used to it, the rain in the Pacific Northwest truly is relentless, so it takes getting used to.
Mind you that was during the time when rent prices were high but not as ludicrous like they are now. Even during the dotcom boom there were similar stories of people living in their vans, so it's not really a new story.
But my friend was charged 5100/month for a 2 bedroom at mission bay, which doesn't make sense. If I had to make the same choice now, it would be a lot harder to make and Seattle is definitely compelling if you can get past the 200 days of rain.
[+] [-] netcan|11 years ago|reply
Google's a good example. They have offices all over. They have clients everywhere.
Common sense would dictate that employees would be easier to hire for the same cost elsewhere where that salary affords a better lifestyle. With all due respect to SF (last time I visited I was 12), there are lots of places where a $140k salary will get you the best schools for kids, entertainment for the adults and palatial digs. It is quite literally like doubling you salary to take it someplace else, even within the US.
I wonder what the reasons are. Obviously clusters matter. There's the tautology that everyone wants what everyone wants. Being someplace vibrant and affluent is valuable to the resident & employees (or resident-employees). I also think that nominal salaries are important to people's decision making. A 25% pay cut from relocation resulting in a 10% cut in after tax salary but a real measurable and provable increase in purchasing power still feels like a 25% pay cut.
Interesting.
[+] [-] UrMomReadsHN|11 years ago|reply
I've known quite a few people who have lived exactly like this for a while. You know what? None are from Silicon Valley and are all from different walks of life. You have your people who ended up in difficult situations, people strapped for cash, people who were ultra minimalist, people who were looking for adventure, people who didn't want to be tied down, people looking to save up money for a couple years. None had Google's perks/free meals. All different motivations. Some by choice, some not.
To generalize that Silicon Valley is somehow responsible from one article about one subset of people is disingenuous.
[+] [-] jusben1369|11 years ago|reply
There's a reason those trains to CT are so full of people every night.
[+] [-] johan_larson|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] potatolicious|11 years ago|reply
Anecdotally I've been hearing more Valley-style anti-tech sentiment coming out of Seattle lately. If not careful Seattle can just as easily turn into the same us vs. them, haves vs. have-nots story of San Francisco.
It'll just be the MS Connector instead of the Google Bus instead.
[+] [-] Clanan|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|11 years ago|reply
There is a push afoot to get Google (and then by reaction everyone) to treat the perks they give as taxable income. I expect it is being "encouraged" by companies that don't want to pay for that kind of thing as a way of killing it. Unfortunately if they are successful I expect it to backfire, Google to continue to do it and to cover the tax aspects and the other companies being forced to follow suit.
[+] [-] watwut|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] blazespin|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drewblaisdell|11 years ago|reply
The census arrived at a different conclusion.
edit: Engineering talent at AmaGooBookSoft are sometimes given pay in Seattle that is comparable to SF, however.
[+] [-] kabdib|11 years ago|reply
I've known a few people who lived in vans / RVs in the company parking lots. (Ironically, the guy whose van had the ATARI vanity license plate was one of the first to be let go in the crash of 1982).
A friend of mine lives in the Sierra mountains, and used to RV down to Silly Valley for a week or two at a time. Really pretty convenient. Once he was parked underneath the flight path for Moffet Field around the time that Air Force One was scheduled to fly in, and the Secret Service politely asked him to move his RV.
[+] [-] damon_c|11 years ago|reply
cool!
[+] [-] bsaul|11 years ago|reply
And as always, it all started with the best intentions.
[+] [-] krschultz|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] UnoriginalGuy|11 years ago|reply
That isn't totally fair, but a lot of Chinese workers live in small shared rooms provided by their employer, they then send money "home" to their villages.
I wouldn't call China lawless, but it is is a bit miserable, particularly if you get fired from a job.
[+] [-] blazespin|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] k__|11 years ago|reply
People talk about sharing and stopping to own stuff you don't need. Which is probably a good idea, if one person owns a car and 10 use it when they need it.
But it stops when companies are in play. When they end up owning everything, we're all in trouble.
[+] [-] goatforce5|11 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bournville
Cadbury was rather late to the game. UK companies were building villages for their workers all the way back to the late 1700s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_village
[+] [-] shubb|11 years ago|reply
But I am also aware of defence companies that take on apprentices at 18, ship them across the country, and provide a room and free cafeteria meals. The company feel that, kids that age are still kids, and need looking after while they transition to independence in the same way as kids that go to university instead (dorms).
[+] [-] gnufied|11 years ago|reply
I can't see to recall the name of the book though. Soon enough we will be getting there though.
[+] [-] wyager|11 years ago|reply
Surely you don't mean Google?
[+] [-] UrMomReadsHN|11 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
[+] [-] marquis|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benihana|11 years ago|reply
No. The current top voted comment in this thread is a guy who's telling everyone how to live out of a van. Hint: it's so safe outside the corporate safe zones that he can park his car in a parking lot and sleep there without worrying about being hassled by anyone.
[+] [-] benihana|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Shivetya|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VLM|11 years ago|reply
"It's not clear what the Googlers like Discoe did when they had to go to the bathroom at night."
They went to the bathroom of course, just like you would in the day. Its not like toilets are solar powered and don't work after dark. If you work there and have an ID and walk past the guard at 2am and walk past leaving a couple minutes later, they simply don't care. "He must have been called in to reboot a server or something". Also although I am a morning person the world has no shortage of night persons and my experience in a 300 person building is I never heard of it being empty although it could happen, and at a 800 person building I don't think we ever, not even on holidays at 3am, dropped below six people.
[+] [-] Systemic33|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] awjr|11 years ago|reply
Couple of tricks: 1) Get a small camper/van that can park in one car parking space with a diesel heating system. Kitchen is irrelevant. Bed/toilet/heating system/space to sit and type/space for clothes to hang.
2) You need a toilet but usually you time your bowel movements to only need to use it as a urinal unless you decide to go for a crazy hot curry
3) Find a local sports centre (not gym) with a sauna. Go for a swim in the morning, spend the evenings working out or hanging out in the sauna (you get regulars).
4) Bank of leisure batteries in your van (to drive the heater and give your laptop power), can give you the power to live for weeks inside your van. Luckily I went home every weekend to recharge them. If you can't get a power source connection (friend etc.), then consider covering your roof in solar power cells.
5) Unlimited mobile data plan that allows tethering.
6) Clubs/Meetup/Work social groups (CRITICAL).
7) No it's not 'hot' to invite a girl back to your van in a car park.
8) Scout the areas and work out where to sleep. Sleeping on a road can mean you get traffic buzzing you from 5am. Go find a really quiet road or lay by. Use retail park car parks if they don't have security patrols. Remember you're parking up at work during the day. You only really turn up after the gym at 8pm or later and leave by 8am.
9) It's quite liberating. Want to wake up next to the sea and go for a swim....yes you can.
10) Be proud of what you are doing. The limited space you have frees you from clutter.
11) Do crazy things...like continue to run an ebay magic card sales business inside the van!
12) Cold is your enemy. When winter hit hard, the issue was the driver cabin and the rear doors. Two cheap double duvets insulated the rest of the van from those cold spaces.
13) Go stealth mode if possible. No windows on the sides of the van, roof windows are perfect. You want somebody to think there is no one in the van.
14) Layout can be interesting, but I prefer bed at back on a removable platform, storage under neath, rear door 'insulated'. Sliding door opens into a space with bench and toilet under bench. Blackout curtains between driver cabin and rear area. Lockable from the inside.
15) Always go for a van you can stand in.
16) Check your drinking laws. In the UK sleeping in the back of a van is legal if drunk.
17) Going to repeat this. Scout out your area and work out great un-disturb-able places. A quiet car park in the centre of town may have a lot of pedestrians walking through it at 2am going back from clubs. Go for those parks/spaces that are not natural through routes. You will get into a routine. You'll end up parking in the same place on the same night of the week.
18) Be social. Get out of that space. Do not go back to the van and lock yourself away and watch stuff on the internet. GET OUT.
[edit] This was the van: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1....
Slightly on the big side, but it worked at the time. If I was going to do it again, I would custom build. Height for me being 6'2 is always going to be an issue. I would consider a normal height van but bending over all the time is not my thing.
[+] [-] raverbashing|11 years ago|reply
(Tech) People glamorize campus life but at least in campus you have a bed, clubs, parties and other interaction opportunities, etc
[+] [-] 2muchcoffeeman|11 years ago|reply
If they are lenient on this sort of thing, you could use this for other purposes. You decide to move and your leases don't quite line up, saving money to buy a house (as mentioned in the article)...
I would certainly classify this as a perk.
[+] [-] aianus|11 years ago|reply
I think Google has all of the above.
[+] [-] lablurker|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kabdib|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cafard|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BGyss|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skynetv2|11 years ago|reply
work is not everything. there is life to be had
[+] [-] fishnchips|11 years ago|reply
With regards to the original article I can testify to knowing a guy on the MTV campus who did that for a little while. To be fair his manager eventually got involved and told him to find either an apartment or a new job.
[+] [-] ryanpardieck|11 years ago|reply
As with any fiction author, the details are probably exaggerated, and he particularly tends toward a certain kind of luxuriant self-deprecation, so, pinch of salt and all ...
I believe the dueling meta-narrators of his first book, You Bright and Risen Angels, were also programmers, or something like that. It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember Electric Emily's origin story and the parts where the programmer-narrators fucked with the "source code" of the narrative being my favorite parts.
[+] [-] skizm|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ck2|11 years ago|reply
Unfortunately they were in no way tolerant of it and when security eventually caught on they reported me to my manager and that was the end of that.
Google sounds far more laid back but I suspect if too many people do it, the loophole will come to an end.
[+] [-] api_or_ipa|11 years ago|reply
Apparently someone lived there for a couple months before someone found out.
[+] [-] mithras|11 years ago|reply
The article adds literally nothing.
http://www.quora.com/Which-Googler-holds-the-record-for-livi...
[+] [-] luckydude|11 years ago|reply
I had two VW vans parked next to each other, one was set up as a "bedroom", the other was set up as the "living room" and was also my daily driver. It worked pretty well if you don't count social life (I didn't have one).
[+] [-] oftenwrong|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tsuyoshi|11 years ago|reply
I stored my clothes in an otherwise-unused filing cabinet, took showers at a gym a few blocks away, and slept on the floor, with just a blanket and pillow. The biggest problem was laundry; the nearest laundromat was pretty far away and I didn't have a car. I ended up strapping a sack full of clothes to the back of my bicycle and riding a couple miles to the laundromat every weekend.
I had a private room with a door that closed, but everyone at the office knew what I was doing. The only conceit was that I claimed that it was only temporary until I could find the right place to move into; in reality I found it so convenient and cheap that I stayed for over a year (until I did, in fact, leave the country). One Friday night, I even had a friend stay over; he slept on a couch in someone else's room.
Our organization rented a suite in a larger building, and every morning when I woke up and went to the restroom, I saw other people seemingly doing the same thing. One guy even went to the restroom every morning in a bathrobe. From about 6-7AM it reminded me a truck stop restroom, with people brushing their teeth and giving themselves sponge-baths at the sink. There are zoning laws that prohibit people from sleeping in offices, but I think the property manager didn't really care as long as everyone was reasonably discreet.
There were a few significant disadvantages. First, there was no kitchen. I had an electric kettle that I used to cook ramen, which I would add eggs and canned meat and vegatables to, but that was about it, except for eating out. There were plenty of nice restaurants nearby, and I had plenty of extra money from not paying rent, so it was not a huge problem.
Second, personal mail. The US Postal Service has a policy of not forwarding mail, addressed to an individual at a commercial address, to a residential address. This meant that when I forwarded my mail from my apartment to my office, I couldn't later forward my mail from my office to somewhere else.
Third, the gym was not open on holidays. On Thanksgiving and Christmas, I went to my parents' house anyway, so I just took a shower there. But for other holidays like Labor Day and Independence Day, I had to do without a shower.
I would do it again. Actually, I would even consider just renting an office instead of an apartment to live in. Generally speaking, office space is cheaper, easier to rent, and more centrally located than housing. These days though, I'm married, and my wife would not be so enthusiastic.