I hate to see products like these promoted because the creators are making bloodmoney.
Cell phones are not dangerous because the driver was looking at his phone or playing with the buttons when he had an accident. They are dangerous because they encourage your mind to wander. Most people's brains are really not good at multitasking. (Try patting your head while rubbing your belly counterclockwise)
Anything that takes your mind away from the road when you're driving even if you can see the road is dangerous. (They found that talking to someone in a passenger seat is not as dangerous because if they notice danger and you don't, they'll inform you of the danger automatically by tensing up or whatever.)
If your brain worked like a single process cpu, it would be like setting Twitter to high priority while relegating driving your 2-ton SUV to low priority. It will work well enough most of the time, but sooner or later, you'll crash the SUV.
This will make driving safer for me. I'm already checking my speedometer and other instruments and often use a GPS. Now I can do all that while not removing focus from the road. This looks like a great device and the pre-order price is fantastic.
And yes, I have no problem with the head patting/belly rubbing. Have you ever seen a cop driving a patrol car? He's juggling radios, phones, a computer with a big screen for looking up warrants and stuff, entering plate numbers, looking out the windows for suspicious behavior - the actual road is a mere distraction. People can learn to manage their divided attention, and if they can't handle checking a speedometer without crashing into the guardrail they probably shouldn't be driving.
That said, I wouldn't use this to text while driving. Seeing who's calling and waving my hand to answer for a brief "I'll be there in 10 minutes" seems reasonable, however, and is safer than fumbling with the phone the old-fashioned way.
> Cell phones are not dangerous because the driver was looking at his phone or playing with the buttons when he had an accident. They are dangerous because they encourage your mind to wander.
I'm going to speculate that driving is such an activity that doesn't require constant attention and involves quite a bit of monotony. In such circumstances, mind wandering will happen—be there a mobile phone, Navdy, or nothing at all.
This is a human factor. The only complete solution to this issue seems to be self-driving cars, when your mind and its wandering are taken out of equation.
With that in mind, a mobile phone doesn't seem to stand equal to other causes of mind-wandering, contrary to your claim. A phone also obstructs large portions of the road from your view when you're using it.
Associating this product with blood money is highly offensive and it's disappointing that this is the top comment. The team behind this has put a lot of sweat and tears into making this a reality, as is always the case when starting a business of any complexity, and especially true in tech when operating in uncharted waters.
The important tech is heads up display projected rendering on glass in a car. As long as that works well there will be good applications beyond reading twitter. safety information, car and dashboard alerts, and gps map information all come to mind. Anyone who has ever played a video game should be familiar with HUDs that help you and aren't distracting.
"Cell phones are not dangerous because the driver was looking at his phone or playing with the buttons when he had an accident. They are dangerous because they encourage your mind to wander."
So you are claiming that having to look away from the road for possibly whole seconds to deal with a phone is not really dangerous, but what is dangerous is your mind wandering? I'm sorry but experience and common sense says otherwise.
I would also argue that your second point is not as not clear cut either. Having some sort of distraction is definitely helpful most of the time when driving long distances. I personally find audio books very greatly help to fight off monotony, which in turn keeps my attention higher than if I was not being distracted.
No, this is only partly true. Driving is primarily a visual activity. If your eyes are not on the road, then your chances of an accident increase. If you are looking down at your mobile, then the chances of an accident increase markedly.
Yes, looking at a HUD increases your risk of an accident. The best option is to have 100% attention focused on the road and your surroundings. If I had to choose between mobile or HUD, HUD would win every single time. If I had to choose between HUD and nothing distracting, then obviously the later is better. Yeah, just put the freaking phone away when you are driving.
It is more dangerous to not look at the road than to look at it. Surely.
This is safer than looking at a phone. I agree that it has the same inherent problem of distracting the driver with other tasks and making it easier for your mind to wander. But it's still a step up.
Perhaps they should make it a "driving tasks only" device. Speed, navigation etc. But unfortunately the law allow devices in the car that provide other information and services as long as they're hands free and they're not playing video. While the law allows it, people will fill that gap and these guys would fail miserably by ignoring that side of the market.
Edit: I read comments further down that enlightened me to the point of view that this creates the illusion of safely texting while driving, and people may be texting and tweeting more while driving, distracting them more rather than less. The laws need to change.
This is pretty accurate, but I think one of the issues with driving is that it's often really... boring.
I mean, I know that it's incredibly dangerous, but because I do it for hours every day, I become desensitized to the danger. So, I check out my facebook feed or respond to that text message. Before smart phones, I would pick up a paper book that I had just bought and skim a little 'cause I just couldn't wait to get home. If it weren't that, I might be looking for wildlife out my passenger-side window or fiddling with the radio, etc.
I guess I'm a bad person, but I'm pretty confident that I'm not the only one. My guess is that a device like this that can keep your attention without diverting your eyes from the road is, in general, going to improve safety.
How about the speedometer dial, the fuel and the oil temp gauges?
Those need to be checked regularly as well and they occupy mindshare. You even need to focus on them and given that they are a lot closer than the road that takes time away from the road, refocus, then inspect the dials then look back out of the front windshield and re-focus.
Driving itself is a multi-tasking effort.
The number of buttons and indicators in a car (especially a high end one) can be quite distracting.
And not checking your speed diligently where I live gets expensive really quickly, 3 km over the actual limit (as checked by the GPS) will get you a ticket. So I actually drive with the GPS 'on' even when I know perfectly well where I'm going because it checks my speed without me looking at it.
Looking at something indeed doesn't mean paying attention to it. That's why head-up displays can be dangerous (just like handsfree phone usage).
Daniel Simons, a professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois, says this in his episode of the You Are Not So Smart podcast:
I agree with you in that navdy will not eliminate risk of attention loss. But at least it should reduce the attention loss. Sure, any kind of attention loss is not acceptable in theory. But if navdy is found to reduce attention only as much as say talking to a co-passenger, then may be it's not a bad trade-off. Like one of the other commenters said, we cannot ensure that drivers have 100% attention. Anything that at least reduces risk is still a good thing.
Ah yes. Do you also give philosophical advice by any chance?
Displays like this are standard on a lot of high end performance vehicles. The teams who worked on stuff like this can run circles around your BS in psychology.
I drove cars with this technology and it's actually better since you don't have to look down at the wheel or at the awkwardly mounted portable GPS/phone that usually falls off the mount every other day.
Why can't we just stop using phones while driving? No matter how much one reduces distraction, it is still more distracting than not using it in the first place. Twitter while driving - why on earth?!? For navigation it is obviously a good idea because you can keep your eyes on the street and don't have to look to your GPS or even try to read street names.
Watch »From One Second to the Next« [1] from the »Texting and Driving - It can wait« campaign.
Hmm, I also can't get this - WHY is it so hard to just answer that text / facebook message / call 10 minutes later after you stop. WHAT in the world is SO URGENT it has to be done right now?!
It's because of the act of driving itself. Before it was phones it was shaving, doing makeup, or eating. Driving promotes an individualist mentality. Backed up by the fact that cars are designed to remove and protect you from the environment that you're still participating in. This separation leads to many things including road rage and not believing that being on your cellphone is a problem. *IMHO
I think it's just that we all suck at multi-tasking but underestimate how much we suck at it. I have never actually met a good multi-tasker. People who do lots of tasks sequentially, but never anyone who does a satisfactory job at two things that are done simultaneously.
I pray for self driving cars, so these idiots can use their phones all they want.
I was following a riced out Acura today that was flashing the brakes all the time, GF said ?old person?, but grandma doesn't drive that car. Some rapper's white girl friend in head to toe pink was diddling on her phone WHILE DRIVING and tapping on the brakes every time she looked up. I see phone usage while driving everyday and the majority of it isn't talking it is interacting with the device itself. Madness.
There is an interesting harm reduction angle to products like this.
It's probably the case that people using Navdy will drive worse than people with 100% attention on driving. It's also quite likely they'll drive better than people using a cellphone directly. The question is if it makes people feel safer and thus more willing to do the dangerous activity, countering the safety benefit. (There's also a clear benefit to people actually using phones while driving; letting people know they're late, not being bored, etc. It's just generally trumped by the safety loss; I'd be willing to sacrifice SOME safety for convenience/entertainment.)
It's the same thing with sex (abstinence vs. barrier-based birth control vs. hormonal birth control), drugs (illegal vs. decrminalized vs. legalized), etc.
It's possible NOT having technologies like this leads to overall less safety; it's also possible it leads to more safety. It depends on the specifics.
I have nav (with voice, and a driver information display in my line of sight while driving), and use that, and also don't feel particularly bad about looking at my phone screen to see who called, etc. while stopped at a red light (although I realize it's less than perfectly safe; it's also more of a legal risk than a safety risk in california now, IMO.)
Actually using the phone while driving, or having anything but the most brief and cursory conversation while driving in the city, is clearly a sacrifice in safety; I don't mind phone calls on highways, but I generally won't answer in the city.
Right when weighting the benefits the big one is the fact most people use GPS navigation, having it via HUD is a significant safety boost. I'd say the same for speedometers.
Other situations are still not super useful and probably won't get used. Can you meaningful respond to text messages with voice? Not quite, yet at least. Can you skim read them? Yes. That is not super distracting but still enough of a distraction in some cases. But I can't think of many use-cases that are any worse than a bluetooth headset voice conversation.
Haha that's actually pretty cool :-D The first video I saw from them was the Square, but didn't notice Adam in other videos until recently where he was the pizza delivery guy in the Push for Pizza video. Now I know why he is featured in so many startup-videos ;-)
Nice looking product, but I can't help but think we shouldn't be encouraging sending Tweets while driving. I'd say keep these devices to assist driving (navigation and safety information), but not to assist additional activities on top of driving.
If you can reduce the number of distractions please do. A phone needs only one button, answer/break connection and you shouldn't be dialling 'out' while driving anyway. No need to pop up pictures and other distractions in front of the driver, such a call at the wrong moment could easily cause an accident, if only because you will instinctively re-focus on the changing item in front of you.
Set your GPS navigator to do voice announcements and only check the display when you suspect a sudden change in direction or are not sure what lane to sort into. Other than that the voice indications should be enough.
As a motorcycle rider, these things scare the hell out of me. Drivers already pay little enough attention; do we really need more distractions? Jets have HUDs, but they also have much less traffic, highly trained pilots, and computers and air traffic control watching out for things the pilot misses. Car drivers have Siri.
Holy shit, people. The point of this product is not to enable tweeting. Did you miss the ever-present navigation hud?
This is a good product. Don't you use nav? What's better: Looking at your nav screen pinned to the dash or in the console; looking down at the phone in your lap, because you know you can't be seen holding it; or looking at the road with augmented information?
If you think HUDs are more dangerous than squinting at road signs or reading maps, then you can petition your legislators to make it illegal. I'm all for it, though, because I know the alternatives are worse.
Actually there are plenty of Navigation gadgets doing the same function, but non of them works on a sunny day. I bought some of them, but frustrated, non of them are really functional. I drive on a highway a lot and navigation is annoying when it's not in front of you. So how do Navdy solves this problem?
Neat product and like others have noted here - well done on the marketing. Doing other things while driving is dangerous no doubt, but it is also a very practical reality. Any product that embraces this practicality and tries to maximize eyes on on the road is a good step forward in making driving safer.
I know the display looks cool and all but this doesn't make driving with a phone any safer. You're still distracted. It's no different to just having your phone on the windscreen.
Even where I live (Tasmania, Australia) I'm fairly sure there is either a proposal or already a law banning even hands free devices, because they are seen as just as dangerous. This device is going to be illegal to start with.
The only two thing I see as being feasible from a safety point of view for cars is either some sort of augmented reality for lane guidance and navigation, or your phone giving you direction via voice (which they already do).
[+] [-] Yxven|11 years ago|reply
Cell phones are not dangerous because the driver was looking at his phone or playing with the buttons when he had an accident. They are dangerous because they encourage your mind to wander. Most people's brains are really not good at multitasking. (Try patting your head while rubbing your belly counterclockwise)
Anything that takes your mind away from the road when you're driving even if you can see the road is dangerous. (They found that talking to someone in a passenger seat is not as dangerous because if they notice danger and you don't, they'll inform you of the danger automatically by tensing up or whatever.)
If your brain worked like a single process cpu, it would be like setting Twitter to high priority while relegating driving your 2-ton SUV to low priority. It will work well enough most of the time, but sooner or later, you'll crash the SUV.
(Source: BS in psychology)
[+] [-] leephillips|11 years ago|reply
And yes, I have no problem with the head patting/belly rubbing. Have you ever seen a cop driving a patrol car? He's juggling radios, phones, a computer with a big screen for looking up warrants and stuff, entering plate numbers, looking out the windows for suspicious behavior - the actual road is a mere distraction. People can learn to manage their divided attention, and if they can't handle checking a speedometer without crashing into the guardrail they probably shouldn't be driving.
That said, I wouldn't use this to text while driving. Seeing who's calling and waving my hand to answer for a brief "I'll be there in 10 minutes" seems reasonable, however, and is safer than fumbling with the phone the old-fashioned way.
[+] [-] goblin89|11 years ago|reply
I'm going to speculate that driving is such an activity that doesn't require constant attention and involves quite a bit of monotony. In such circumstances, mind wandering will happen—be there a mobile phone, Navdy, or nothing at all.
This is a human factor. The only complete solution to this issue seems to be self-driving cars, when your mind and its wandering are taken out of equation.
With that in mind, a mobile phone doesn't seem to stand equal to other causes of mind-wandering, contrary to your claim. A phone also obstructs large portions of the road from your view when you're using it.
[+] [-] soup10|11 years ago|reply
The important tech is heads up display projected rendering on glass in a car. As long as that works well there will be good applications beyond reading twitter. safety information, car and dashboard alerts, and gps map information all come to mind. Anyone who has ever played a video game should be familiar with HUDs that help you and aren't distracting.
[+] [-] mden|11 years ago|reply
So you are claiming that having to look away from the road for possibly whole seconds to deal with a phone is not really dangerous, but what is dangerous is your mind wandering? I'm sorry but experience and common sense says otherwise.
I would also argue that your second point is not as not clear cut either. Having some sort of distraction is definitely helpful most of the time when driving long distances. I personally find audio books very greatly help to fight off monotony, which in turn keeps my attention higher than if I was not being distracted.
[+] [-] petilon|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JonoBB|11 years ago|reply
Yes, looking at a HUD increases your risk of an accident. The best option is to have 100% attention focused on the road and your surroundings. If I had to choose between mobile or HUD, HUD would win every single time. If I had to choose between HUD and nothing distracting, then obviously the later is better. Yeah, just put the freaking phone away when you are driving.
[+] [-] afro88|11 years ago|reply
This is safer than looking at a phone. I agree that it has the same inherent problem of distracting the driver with other tasks and making it easier for your mind to wander. But it's still a step up.
Perhaps they should make it a "driving tasks only" device. Speed, navigation etc. But unfortunately the law allow devices in the car that provide other information and services as long as they're hands free and they're not playing video. While the law allows it, people will fill that gap and these guys would fail miserably by ignoring that side of the market.
Edit: I read comments further down that enlightened me to the point of view that this creates the illusion of safely texting while driving, and people may be texting and tweeting more while driving, distracting them more rather than less. The laws need to change.
[+] [-] industriousthou|11 years ago|reply
I mean, I know that it's incredibly dangerous, but because I do it for hours every day, I become desensitized to the danger. So, I check out my facebook feed or respond to that text message. Before smart phones, I would pick up a paper book that I had just bought and skim a little 'cause I just couldn't wait to get home. If it weren't that, I might be looking for wildlife out my passenger-side window or fiddling with the radio, etc.
I guess I'm a bad person, but I'm pretty confident that I'm not the only one. My guess is that a device like this that can keep your attention without diverting your eyes from the road is, in general, going to improve safety.
Of course, I could be wrong.
[+] [-] jacquesm|11 years ago|reply
Those need to be checked regularly as well and they occupy mindshare. You even need to focus on them and given that they are a lot closer than the road that takes time away from the road, refocus, then inspect the dials then look back out of the front windshield and re-focus.
Driving itself is a multi-tasking effort.
The number of buttons and indicators in a car (especially a high end one) can be quite distracting.
And not checking your speed diligently where I live gets expensive really quickly, 3 km over the actual limit (as checked by the GPS) will get you a ticket. So I actually drive with the GPS 'on' even when I know perfectly well where I'm going because it checks my speed without me looking at it.
[+] [-] gamzer|11 years ago|reply
Daniel Simons, a professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois, says this in his episode of the You Are Not So Smart podcast:
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/24/yanss-podcast-episode...
Head-up displays are discussed starting at 12:31.
If I remember correctly, pilots were at danger to miss planes on the runway while using a head-up display.
"Even pilots use it – it's safe." Is it?
[+] [-] raz32dust|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wuliwong|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] icelancer|11 years ago|reply
What? This was exceedingly easy to do. And I've never heard of this.
[+] [-] flexie|11 years ago|reply
No-one died just yet from Navdy.
I love to see this kind of technology on HN and not just apps that play with pictures, videos or text.
[+] [-] korzun|11 years ago|reply
Ah yes. Do you also give philosophical advice by any chance?
Displays like this are standard on a lot of high end performance vehicles. The teams who worked on stuff like this can run circles around your BS in psychology.
I drove cars with this technology and it's actually better since you don't have to look down at the wheel or at the awkwardly mounted portable GPS/phone that usually falls off the mount every other day.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/mseries/m5sedan/2013/s...
[+] [-] danbruc|11 years ago|reply
Watch »From One Second to the Next« [1] from the »Texting and Driving - It can wait« campaign.
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BqFkRwdFZ0
[+] [-] izacus|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] willis77|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brm|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arjie|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sitkack|11 years ago|reply
I was following a riced out Acura today that was flashing the brakes all the time, GF said ?old person?, but grandma doesn't drive that car. Some rapper's white girl friend in head to toe pink was diddling on her phone WHILE DRIVING and tapping on the brakes every time she looked up. I see phone usage while driving everyday and the majority of it isn't talking it is interacting with the device itself. Madness.
[+] [-] rdl|11 years ago|reply
It's probably the case that people using Navdy will drive worse than people with 100% attention on driving. It's also quite likely they'll drive better than people using a cellphone directly. The question is if it makes people feel safer and thus more willing to do the dangerous activity, countering the safety benefit. (There's also a clear benefit to people actually using phones while driving; letting people know they're late, not being bored, etc. It's just generally trumped by the safety loss; I'd be willing to sacrifice SOME safety for convenience/entertainment.)
It's the same thing with sex (abstinence vs. barrier-based birth control vs. hormonal birth control), drugs (illegal vs. decrminalized vs. legalized), etc.
It's possible NOT having technologies like this leads to overall less safety; it's also possible it leads to more safety. It depends on the specifics.
I have nav (with voice, and a driver information display in my line of sight while driving), and use that, and also don't feel particularly bad about looking at my phone screen to see who called, etc. while stopped at a red light (although I realize it's less than perfectly safe; it's also more of a legal risk than a safety risk in california now, IMO.)
Actually using the phone while driving, or having anything but the most brief and cursory conversation while driving in the city, is clearly a sacrifice in safety; I don't mind phone calls on highways, but I generally won't answer in the city.
[+] [-] dmix|11 years ago|reply
Other situations are still not super useful and probably won't get used. Can you meaningful respond to text messages with voice? Not quite, yet at least. Can you skim read them? Yes. That is not super distracting but still enough of a distraction in some cases. But I can't think of many use-cases that are any worse than a bluetooth headset voice conversation.
[+] [-] applecore|11 years ago|reply
Edit: Yes. http://sandwichvideo.com/
[+] [-] jafingi|11 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] bad_alloc|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sixQuarks|11 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] numann|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danielweber|11 years ago|reply
And they still haven't changed their homepage.
Navdy could be really useful, even improving of total safety, as HUD navigation. But maybe that's not where the money is.
[+] [-] sergiotapia|11 years ago|reply
"Hey watch this video???"
I just can't believe it.
[+] [-] rayiner|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] martin-adams|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dilipray|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacquesm|11 years ago|reply
If you can reduce the number of distractions please do. A phone needs only one button, answer/break connection and you shouldn't be dialling 'out' while driving anyway. No need to pop up pictures and other distractions in front of the driver, such a call at the wrong moment could easily cause an accident, if only because you will instinctively re-focus on the changing item in front of you.
Set your GPS navigator to do voice announcements and only check the display when you suspect a sudden change in direction or are not sure what lane to sort into. Other than that the voice indications should be enough.
[+] [-] Twirrim|11 years ago|reply
GPS, cool. Text etc? ARGH.
[+] [-] danielweber|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SoftwareMaven|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ibejoeb|11 years ago|reply
This is a good product. Don't you use nav? What's better: Looking at your nav screen pinned to the dash or in the console; looking down at the phone in your lap, because you know you can't be seen holding it; or looking at the road with augmented information?
If you think HUDs are more dangerous than squinting at road signs or reading maps, then you can petition your legislators to make it illegal. I'm all for it, though, because I know the alternatives are worse.
[+] [-] molecule|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smacktoward|11 years ago|reply
"I see you have a Navdy there, ma'am. I'm going to need to confiscate your car keys before you hurt somebody."
[+] [-] zeynalov|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skrebbel|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] guybrushT|11 years ago|reply
A random idea: Adding a camera to this could open up the dashcam market. In Russia for example, dashcams a very common and are a part of the driving culture (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashcam and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance).
[+] [-] thomasfoster96|11 years ago|reply
Even where I live (Tasmania, Australia) I'm fairly sure there is either a proposal or already a law banning even hands free devices, because they are seen as just as dangerous. This device is going to be illegal to start with.
The only two thing I see as being feasible from a safety point of view for cars is either some sort of augmented reality for lane guidance and navigation, or your phone giving you direction via voice (which they already do).
[+] [-] mindcreek|11 years ago|reply
I don't want to destroy their hype bu they should really give that problem some thought.
[+] [-] sciguy77|11 years ago|reply