I have to agree with the initial comment on the article, this is a fear mongering piece. Anyone that has a working knowledge of firearms can put together a usable weapon using readily available parts. In fact, a trip to home depot is all you need in order to build a crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun. I also think it goes without saying that a criminal would probably opt to spend the $1,200 required to buy this CNC device on a weapon (or weapons) that have already been assembled.
Not to mention, its been trivial to build "zip guns" with basic tools. Crude pistols aren't that tough to make, especially when the heavy lifting (making of reliable and safe ammo) is already done for you.
Don't say that. They will outlaw education next. Any person with high school knowledge of physics and chemistry can mcguyver himself a lot of really deadly stuff.
Or just buy a drone, strap something light and sharp to it, and just nodedive it into the target.
Exactly, and it never too "tens of thousands" of dollars to buy a mill unless you were buying one new. A used Bridgeport that can turn out all the parts for say .45 cal automatics (or lower receivers for an AR15) can be had with minimal tooling for less than $10K and usually less than $5K.
For $1,200 you could set up as a company making little things for others, earn enough to pay for the machine and then benefit from it yourself.
What I would do with such a machine is to solve the problem of bike accessories and mounts. i.e. every light has a different mount, as do GPS devices, and cameras, and bag attachments. Yet you could manufacture some common clamp, and then adaptors for each thing. Perhaps standardise around something like the GoPro bracket for an even wider market (it would allow flashes and other accessories to be mounted using existing GoPro segments).
There's so many things you can do.
And they make a gun! Who cares about guns! It's all the other stuff that make this awesome.
If you read the whole article, this is specifically designed to mill and drill the lower receivers of AR15, from a piece of aluminum stock called the "80 percent stock", which is a non-functional metal part that is only missing a few holes.
If you have grand ideas about bike accessories and other metal objects, you can buy a proper CNC mill which is a bit more expensive than this. Or pay for CNC machining service at your local machine shop. It's not super expensive.
This machine is likely to have a very low machining speed due to weak motors and other motion components. You are unlikely to be able to out-compete a professional machine shop making small parts. So while this is nice for hobbyists, it is unlikely to pay for itself in a professional situation. If you want a machine to pay for itself and be more generally useful, you would be better off spending the money on a Chinese manual milling machine.
I want to do a similar project but for car dashboards.
Much like bike accessories we're always buying things like phone holders, fan holders, or CB radio handset holders. But these things never attach to the dashboard well because they depend on suction cups or clips to the vent grate (which aren't standard anyway).
All car dashboards should come with a 1/4-20 inch screw thread. Maybe two, one of the driver's side and a second for the front passenger. Then to accessorize your car, you just buy a simple cellphone clip which screws in.
The nice part about 1/4-20 is that it is already used for a ton of stuff (i.e. anything tripod compatible), so there are already accessories on the market for that screw size.
> every light has a different mount, as do GPS devices, and cameras, and bag attachments. Yet you could manufacture some common clamp, and then adaptors for each thing. Perhaps standardise around something like the GoPro bracket for an even wider market
You can't just sell them, you first have to license every patented clamp and mount. And I guarantee you, 99% of them are patented.
The main reason this allows you to build an AR-style rifle is that US firearms law focuses on receivers (per U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3), which are in many cases quite easy to manufacture. For instance, many Kalashnikov receivers are made of stamped sheet metal.
The pressure-bearing parts, like the barrel or the bolt, are much harder to manufacture, at least for rifles. Most European countries will therefore regulate these, but they won't necessarily regulate ancillary parts like receivers or stocks. AFAIK, a full-auto AR receiver, which is highly regulated in the US, is treated as nothing more than a chunk of metal under UK law (as long as you don't illegally assemble it with a barrel and other parts).
[I was wrong; according to the 9th report of the Firearms Consultative Comity, Annex D, receivers are controlled as "component parts"]
Plus the way the law is structured in the UK, you cannot out-clever it. It is a "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."-type of law.
So for example, a farmer (without a firearm licence) tired of people stealing created a trap, a thick cardboard tube, hung on a string pointed at the doorway, set to ignite and shoot shrapnel when the door was opened.
The farmer winds up forgetting about his trap and sets it off injuring himself. He was charged with having an illegal firearm because even though it was something he built himself, it was still similar enough to a gun to be considered one.
There is a potential here for there to be a change similar to the 18th century. Suddenly, non-governmental forces or fledgling governments can quickly equip a lightly armed force. For the last 1-2 centuries you needed a manufacturing infrastructure under your control, but a 3-D printer device like this (if I am understanding the article correctly, and perhaps I am not).
In the 18th century, relatively low-cost and reliable rifles became available, and this fundamentally changed the balance between established governments and small armed groups. This changed contributed to the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and the downfall of the Mughal Empire (where small regional rebellions suddenly became more viable and central control began to break down).
This period eventually ended in the 19th century, when is debatable, but once you had a gatling gun, a professional heavily armed force could mow down lightly armed forces without large casualties.
Chances are this development will be the final word (and certainly it has not had a huge impact yet, so maybe my speculation is premature), eventually there will become some expensive but exceptionally effective weapon only large governments can afford or supply, but 3-D printers making guns could have serious effects on the course of politics and warfare within the next few decades.
As the old curse goes, may you live in interesting times...
It is my understanding that the important part of arming a group of people is quality/reliability of the weapons. I was watching an interesting History channel episode of some series (back when they were good) about the horrible gun that was the Chauchat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat Basically these guns didn't have interchangeable parts and would often jam. The narrator said that the Americans who received this gun would basically throw it away once they encountered an enemy gun.
I don't know where you live, but in the USA the weapons aren't an issue. This country has literally tens of millions of high quality small arms already available to the people.
Instead, the real key can be found in the words "well regulated" in the US 2nd Amendment.[1]
"[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing
more than the imposition of proper discipline and
training."
A hundred true "soldiers", well trained in small unit tactics, can easily outfight twenty times as many idealist hipsters. It doesn't matter if the hipsters have the most expensive commercial rifles or if they're using crude AK knockoffs.
The professionals will win even if they aren't "heavily armed". Because they are trained and they're not simply a disorganized mob.
In the USA, most of these professionals can be found in "a well regulated militia", which nowadays we tend to call by a slightly different name, the National Guard. [2] Every state has one, they're full of veterans of the Gulf Wars and of Afghanistan, and they're not simply "weekend warriors".
>eventually there will become some expensive but exceptionally effective weapon only large governments can afford or supply
This already exists. Ubiquitous air presence via unmanned drones armed with air-to-ground rockets, missiles, or guided bombs.
Sometimes I feel like libertarians and NRA types seriously believe that they (a bunch of angry right-wing hunters or whatever) could actually throw off what they feel are the chains of oppression emanating from Washington, if only they could be sufficiently organized and motivated to rise up together.
Any serious armed rebellion in the United States would be deftly crushed. I'm not convinced that a peaceful/political rebellion would not be crushed also.
Mother Jones did a story on this a while ago, and I was under the impression that if you had a drill press it would be enough to get an 80% receiver usable.
Either way, I'm glad Defense Distributed is moving the ball forward on this issue.
> ill your own lower receiver at home, however, and you can order the rest of the parts from online gun shops, creating a semi-automatic weapon with no serial number, obtained with no background check, no waiting period
Besides the 6 months it takes to learn to make one that won't blow up in your face when you pull the trigger?
I agree the article is alarmist drivel, but you greatly overestimate the difficulty of assembling a lower. Furthermore, there is pretty much no way to misassemble one in a way that would cause an explosion.
It's not that hard to finish assembly, but to your intent: it DOES take enough knowledge & effort to acquire & assemble all the parts that anyone intending to use the finished product for criminal purposes will just buy one (black market most likely).
"OMG someone can make an unregistered gun and kill someone with it!" is hyperventilating drivel. Far, far easier to just buy/steal one. Anyone interested in making one won't be interested in throwing their lives away (arrest/incarceration/execution) by abusing it. Anyone who IS willing to throw their lives away by abusing one won't find any advantage/interest in making one from scratch.
While I haven't learned this in detail (I loathe the AR10/AR15 design), I gather it's quite a bit easier than that, e.g. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/learn/ Maybe six months if you're busy with a lot of other things. And of course a fair amount of mechanical aptitude is required, if you're learning that from scratch or nearly so (not the case for many of us in flyover country), it could indeed take quite a while. And more than a few ruined parts.
I was able to put together a stripped lower receiver with the lower parts kit in one hour. My background in firearms is from owning a pistol and a 22 magnum bolt action rifle.
It is trivial to put together a lower receiver. You can do it with a hammer and a roll pin punch (and you really don't need the punch).
There are numerous vids on how to assemble a lower receiver and how to mill out an 80%. You could even buy a polymer and carve it out with a knife, if you felt so inclined to do so.
it doesn't take 6 months of gunsmithing experience to put together an ar-15 from parts, it takes about an hour for a complete novice. it's not difficult or dangerous. it's just not. especially with youtube.
before i owned one, i had the notion that it was dangerous. but it's a real-world (i.e. you literally bet your life on it) modular weapons system - you don't make the modules (barrel, etc.), you just snap or screw them together. the gun was designed to be taken apart and reassembled in the field by people without a high school education, much less any kind of gunsmithing ability.
i know it sounds hard to believe when you don't know anything about it (i was the same way), but it's true. when you start researching, it's incredibly confusing for about 20 minutes but then it just clicks in your head. it's a very basic weapon.
If you were making the barrel from scratch as opposed to buying off the shelf, yeah, it might blow up in your face. But that is the part prone to catastrophic failure. People have been making lowers out of HDPE (plastic) and it works just fine, it doesn't need to contain combustion, just hold all the parts together.
I'm very much a libertarian, pro-gun kind of guy and I'm glad this project project exists, but I do have to say I'm reluctant about it. There isn't really anything (that I can see) that can stop this movement. I abhor gun registries and most restrictions on firearms but I'm glad that there is at least a small hurdle to acquiring a firearm (purchase permits). Hopefully the trend towards more and more CCW holders increases as responsible people carrying guns will be a big line of defense against crazy people. See: http://www.reddit.com/r/dgu for a sampling of recent defensive gun uses, it is a very common occurance.
No, it is not a general purpose CNC mill. It is specifically designed for the task of making the receiver parts from almost ready but non-functional gun pieces ("80% receivers").
It might be adaptable something else but it wasn't designed for that.
The author has no understanding of CNC machines and didn't do his homework. This is all completely wrong:
"Like any computer-numerically-controlled (or CNC) mill, the one-foot-cubed black box uses a drill bit mounted on a head that moves in three dimensions to automatically carve digitally-modeled shapes into polymer, wood or aluminum."
CNCs use drill bits for drilling, but not cutting. They use a carbide router bit. Look like a drill bit, but isn't. His machine might use a drill bit, but it's not the norm and "any CNC" doesn't.
CNC routers, or mills, divide into those that cut steel and those that cut everything else, not "polymer, wood or aluminum". From this article, I can't tell nearly as much as I'd like to about this machine, and I do this for a living.
What does it mean to sell a machine the sole purpose of which is to exploit a "legal loophole"? Can't the machine be made illegal the minute it's available to the public?
You can't sell all the ingredients, tools and instructions to build a meth lab ("Breaking Bad in a Box"!) so what's so different with a gun?
It is not exploiting a loop hole. Federal law allows for the building of guns in the privacy of ones home. Just because this individual has decided to use this to make a gun, does that mean that we should outlaw all 3d milling devices because some of them make guns?
People have been building 80% lowers for years, without any background check, as the ATF does not consider it to be a weapon. All one needs is a drill press. Should we outlaw drill presses because they can be used to make a gun less then 1% of the time. Despite all of the other uses of a drill press?
Also the difference between a gun and your meth example is that meth manufacturing is illegal in all capacities. The private manufacturing of a firearm is not considered illegal, as long as you do not sell that firearm that you have created.
Owning and/or making your own "AR15 lower" is legal (your local jurisdiction may vary, but for point of discussion...). Meth 100% isn't.
The legal nuance addressed by this machine is: if you (as private individual, or as industry manufacturer) make an "AR15 lower" for sale, you must register the manufactured part with the government ... but if you make it for your own use (to wit: not for sale), you don't have to register it.
Those wanting "unregistered guns" could make an "AR15 lower" out of a block of steel, at home, for personal use, and be completely legal. YES, you can sell a CNC machine, block of steel[1], tools, and instructions to build a gun.
Surprise: guns are legal in the USA, and you're allowed to make one for yourself without registering it (some jurisdictional limitations may apply, but the general point is absolutely true).
[1] - Hobbyists strained the limits of what constitutes "make" and "block of steel" (what if it's cut to the exact outer dimensions? what if I drill a hole? how close to the final shape constitutes "not made"?); the government ruled that doing 80% of the work required to convert a block of steel into an "AR15 lower" was as far as you could go and the object still not legally considered an "AR15 lower" (any farther and it may be incomplete but close enough to be considered a gun). This machine takes an "80% AR15 lower" and finishes the work.
The regulations that make it impossible to sell a DIY meth lab also make kid's chemistry sets neutered pieces of crap.
Meth should be legal and sold out of liquor stores to anyone 21 or older anyway. And while I don't condone tweakers cooking it in the trailer park, I see no reason why one shouldn't be allowed to do that chemistry if they're careful and take proper precautions.
Meth is illegal, full stop. Guns are not, that "legal loophole" is referred to by others as the Constitution, which makes gun manufacturing subject to laws and regulations, but not bans in the US.
It's not an "AR-15 lower receiver maker". It's a cheap CNC mill you can do an infinite number of useful things with. Should high quality printers be illegal because you can make counterfeit bills with it? Or is the potential for harm an incidental part of any useful device? You can stab someone with a knife, but they're pretty handy for chopping food, too.
There aren't. It's a long piece of hardened steel with a hole drilled in it and a groove added thereto. No laws prohibit such manufacturing (assuming USA, I haven't so extensively studied such laws of other countries).
Except for some "slave states" as I've taken to calling them, you can buy ammo mail order, often with a statement of age or perhaps a photocopy of your drivers license. Powder, bullets, cases and primers by mail, although there may be limits to the amount of powder you can hold before the BATF wants a license, safe(r) storage, etc. And similarly your local fire department prefers or may demand limits.
And this stuff is stable, lasts a long time. My father has several 25 pound casks of powder he or his father bought before or after WWII that he's still reloading from, and ammo manufactured in WWII is still being used (although a lot of it has corrosive primers, requiring much more thorough cleaning).
When I grew up in Australia where there is basically no guns. I used to walk on streets even on a drunken Friday / Saturday night without fear.
I moved to the US a few years ago and since then every corner I turn, I see people and I worry.
I don't worry about getting robbed. No. I worry about a gun fight somewhere and a stray bullet hits me. I worry that someone drunk might hold me at gunpoint and at a moment of misjudgement he/she shoots me.
It is pretty hard to get killed by being punched. On the other hand, it is pretty easy to lose your mind for a second and shoot someone
I hate this project, because now the barrier to entry of owning a unregistered gun is so much lower
I see the opposite, I see a world where the predator on the street corner cannot be sure I am armed, who has to pause and think before he mugs me or another, are they armed? They have to think twice about that home invasion as well.
You vastly over exaggerate the issue here, this level or paranoia needs medical assistance.
Gun laws will not make people safer, making an already illegal act; using a gun against someone/something; even more illegal solves nothing.
We have a major problem with drugs. There is too much money in this because of the illegal nature of it. From the use and sale of drugs to prosecution, treatment, and imprisonment. The establishment has too much to lose to give it up and those in that system have too little to lose to not resort to violence.
Fix the drug laws, find good work for those who have too much idle time, and then we can work on the culture of violence that pervades many inner cities.
really? Have you had bad experiences with gun wielding Americans? I acknowledge that the US certainly has a lot of guns and armed robberies/crimes are highly publicized, but if you aren't in a sketchy neighborhood the likelihood of running into a malicious person with a gun is very very low
I don't see why your fear differentiates between guns with and without serial numbers. Either way, you're dead if you get shot with one. Then again, fear is irrational.
Take a look at a state like New Jersey. Guns are illegal there for all intents and purposes. Does nothing to keep cities like Camden off the most dangerous cities in America list though.
Totally agree. Particularly since US citizens are so obsessed with guns and violence. I mean, look at all the shootings and massacres happening, by people of all ages and races, it's crazy! Couldn't stand living in a society like that where everyone's allowed and legally motivated to keep guns.
mercwear|11 years ago
mcmancini|11 years ago
drzaiusapelord|11 years ago
venomsnake|11 years ago
Or just buy a drone, strap something light and sharp to it, and just nodedive it into the target.
jboggan|11 years ago
ChuckMcM|11 years ago
buro9|11 years ago
For $1,200 you could set up as a company making little things for others, earn enough to pay for the machine and then benefit from it yourself.
What I would do with such a machine is to solve the problem of bike accessories and mounts. i.e. every light has a different mount, as do GPS devices, and cameras, and bag attachments. Yet you could manufacture some common clamp, and then adaptors for each thing. Perhaps standardise around something like the GoPro bracket for an even wider market (it would allow flashes and other accessories to be mounted using existing GoPro segments).
There's so many things you can do.
And they make a gun! Who cares about guns! It's all the other stuff that make this awesome.
exDM69|11 years ago
If you read the whole article, this is specifically designed to mill and drill the lower receivers of AR15, from a piece of aluminum stock called the "80 percent stock", which is a non-functional metal part that is only missing a few holes.
If you have grand ideas about bike accessories and other metal objects, you can buy a proper CNC mill which is a bit more expensive than this. Or pay for CNC machining service at your local machine shop. It's not super expensive.
chromaton|11 years ago
Someone1234|11 years ago
Much like bike accessories we're always buying things like phone holders, fan holders, or CB radio handset holders. But these things never attach to the dashboard well because they depend on suction cups or clips to the vent grate (which aren't standard anyway).
All car dashboards should come with a 1/4-20 inch screw thread. Maybe two, one of the driver's side and a second for the front passenger. Then to accessorize your car, you just buy a simple cellphone clip which screws in.
The nice part about 1/4-20 is that it is already used for a ton of stuff (i.e. anything tripod compatible), so there are already accessories on the market for that screw size.
imaginenore|11 years ago
You can't just sell them, you first have to license every patented clamp and mount. And I guarantee you, 99% of them are patented.
alricb|11 years ago
The pressure-bearing parts, like the barrel or the bolt, are much harder to manufacture, at least for rifles. Most European countries will therefore regulate these, but they won't necessarily regulate ancillary parts like receivers or stocks. AFAIK, a full-auto AR receiver, which is highly regulated in the US, is treated as nothing more than a chunk of metal under UK law (as long as you don't illegally assemble it with a barrel and other parts).
[I was wrong; according to the 9th report of the Firearms Consultative Comity, Annex D, receivers are controlled as "component parts"]
Someone1234|11 years ago
So for example, a farmer (without a firearm licence) tired of people stealing created a trap, a thick cardboard tube, hung on a string pointed at the doorway, set to ignite and shoot shrapnel when the door was opened.
The farmer winds up forgetting about his trap and sets it off injuring himself. He was charged with having an illegal firearm because even though it was something he built himself, it was still similar enough to a gun to be considered one.
InfiniteRand|11 years ago
In the 18th century, relatively low-cost and reliable rifles became available, and this fundamentally changed the balance between established governments and small armed groups. This changed contributed to the American Revolution, the French Revolution, and the downfall of the Mughal Empire (where small regional rebellions suddenly became more viable and central control began to break down).
This period eventually ended in the 19th century, when is debatable, but once you had a gatling gun, a professional heavily armed force could mow down lightly armed forces without large casualties.
Chances are this development will be the final word (and certainly it has not had a huge impact yet, so maybe my speculation is premature), eventually there will become some expensive but exceptionally effective weapon only large governments can afford or supply, but 3-D printers making guns could have serious effects on the course of politics and warfare within the next few decades.
As the old curse goes, may you live in interesting times...
chadgeidel|11 years ago
It is my understanding that the important part of arming a group of people is quality/reliability of the weapons. I was watching an interesting History channel episode of some series (back when they were good) about the horrible gun that was the Chauchat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat Basically these guns didn't have interchangeable parts and would often jam. The narrator said that the Americans who received this gun would basically throw it away once they encountered an enemy gun.
PhantomGremlin|11 years ago
Instead, the real key can be found in the words "well regulated" in the US 2nd Amendment.[1]
A hundred true "soldiers", well trained in small unit tactics, can easily outfight twenty times as many idealist hipsters. It doesn't matter if the hipsters have the most expensive commercial rifles or if they're using crude AK knockoffs.The professionals will win even if they aren't "heavily armed". Because they are trained and they're not simply a disorganized mob.
In the USA, most of these professionals can be found in "a well regulated militia", which nowadays we tend to call by a slightly different name, the National Guard. [2] Every state has one, they're full of veterans of the Gulf Wars and of Afghanistan, and they're not simply "weekend warriors".
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_%28United_States...
na85|11 years ago
This already exists. Ubiquitous air presence via unmanned drones armed with air-to-ground rockets, missiles, or guided bombs.
Sometimes I feel like libertarians and NRA types seriously believe that they (a bunch of angry right-wing hunters or whatever) could actually throw off what they feel are the chains of oppression emanating from Washington, if only they could be sufficiently organized and motivated to rise up together.
Any serious armed rebellion in the United States would be deftly crushed. I'm not convinced that a peaceful/political rebellion would not be crushed also.
The System exists to perpetuate itself.
cpwright|11 years ago
Either way, I'm glad Defense Distributed is moving the ball forward on this issue.
Edit to add: This company makes plastic ones that a drill, chisel, and Dremel are enough to finish, no CNC machine necessary. http://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/ep80-ar15-rifle-lower-at-hom...
NoMoreNicksLeft|11 years ago
Besides the 6 months it takes to learn to make one that won't blow up in your face when you pull the trigger?
Alarmist drivel.
RyJones|11 years ago
ctdonath|11 years ago
"OMG someone can make an unregistered gun and kill someone with it!" is hyperventilating drivel. Far, far easier to just buy/steal one. Anyone interested in making one won't be interested in throwing their lives away (arrest/incarceration/execution) by abusing it. Anyone who IS willing to throw their lives away by abusing one won't find any advantage/interest in making one from scratch.
hga|11 years ago
molecules|11 years ago
It is trivial to put together a lower receiver. You can do it with a hammer and a roll pin punch (and you really don't need the punch).
There are numerous vids on how to assemble a lower receiver and how to mill out an 80%. You could even buy a polymer and carve it out with a knife, if you felt so inclined to do so.
beachstartup|11 years ago
before i owned one, i had the notion that it was dangerous. but it's a real-world (i.e. you literally bet your life on it) modular weapons system - you don't make the modules (barrel, etc.), you just snap or screw them together. the gun was designed to be taken apart and reassembled in the field by people without a high school education, much less any kind of gunsmithing ability.
i know it sounds hard to believe when you don't know anything about it (i was the same way), but it's true. when you start researching, it's incredibly confusing for about 20 minutes but then it just clicks in your head. it's a very basic weapon.
shiftpgdn|11 years ago
viggity|11 years ago
unknown|11 years ago
[deleted]
krapp|11 years ago
viggity|11 years ago
comrh|11 years ago
RyJones|11 years ago
metafex|11 years ago
This thing could be really nice for hobby projects (not gun related, that is).
exDM69|11 years ago
It might be adaptable something else but it wasn't designed for that.
CapitalistCartr|11 years ago
"Like any computer-numerically-controlled (or CNC) mill, the one-foot-cubed black box uses a drill bit mounted on a head that moves in three dimensions to automatically carve digitally-modeled shapes into polymer, wood or aluminum."
CNCs use drill bits for drilling, but not cutting. They use a carbide router bit. Look like a drill bit, but isn't. His machine might use a drill bit, but it's not the norm and "any CNC" doesn't.
CNC routers, or mills, divide into those that cut steel and those that cut everything else, not "polymer, wood or aluminum". From this article, I can't tell nearly as much as I'd like to about this machine, and I do this for a living.
kelvin0|11 years ago
Craftsmanship, experience and raw materials only are needed.
gao8a|11 years ago
http://www.80percentarms.com/products/0-billet-ar-15-lower-r...
Sn1PeR|11 years ago
shiftpgdn|11 years ago
RyJones|11 years ago
One with a serial number, but there it is.
thisjepisje|11 years ago
unknown|11 years ago
[deleted]
quux|11 years ago
bambax|11 years ago
You can't sell all the ingredients, tools and instructions to build a meth lab ("Breaking Bad in a Box"!) so what's so different with a gun?
Trisell|11 years ago
People have been building 80% lowers for years, without any background check, as the ATF does not consider it to be a weapon. All one needs is a drill press. Should we outlaw drill presses because they can be used to make a gun less then 1% of the time. Despite all of the other uses of a drill press?
Also the difference between a gun and your meth example is that meth manufacturing is illegal in all capacities. The private manufacturing of a firearm is not considered illegal, as long as you do not sell that firearm that you have created.
ctdonath|11 years ago
Owning and/or making your own "AR15 lower" is legal (your local jurisdiction may vary, but for point of discussion...). Meth 100% isn't.
The legal nuance addressed by this machine is: if you (as private individual, or as industry manufacturer) make an "AR15 lower" for sale, you must register the manufactured part with the government ... but if you make it for your own use (to wit: not for sale), you don't have to register it.
Those wanting "unregistered guns" could make an "AR15 lower" out of a block of steel, at home, for personal use, and be completely legal. YES, you can sell a CNC machine, block of steel[1], tools, and instructions to build a gun.
Surprise: guns are legal in the USA, and you're allowed to make one for yourself without registering it (some jurisdictional limitations may apply, but the general point is absolutely true).
[1] - Hobbyists strained the limits of what constitutes "make" and "block of steel" (what if it's cut to the exact outer dimensions? what if I drill a hole? how close to the final shape constitutes "not made"?); the government ruled that doing 80% of the work required to convert a block of steel into an "AR15 lower" was as far as you could go and the object still not legally considered an "AR15 lower" (any farther and it may be incomplete but close enough to be considered a gun). This machine takes an "80% AR15 lower" and finishes the work.
NoMoreNicksLeft|11 years ago
Meth should be legal and sold out of liquor stores to anyone 21 or older anyway. And while I don't condone tweakers cooking it in the trailer park, I see no reason why one shouldn't be allowed to do that chemistry if they're careful and take proper precautions.
hga|11 years ago
drcube|11 years ago
infinity0|11 years ago
NoMoreNicksLeft|11 years ago
wlesieutre|11 years ago
It's not like Wired has never talked about general purpose CNC mills before.
exDM69|11 years ago
It's nothing like that. This specifically designed to drill holes in gun parts and do only that.
CNC mills and metal 3d printers do exist but they are quite a bit more expensive than this.
krapp|11 years ago
jmscharff2|11 years ago
[deleted]
jmscharff2|11 years ago
ctdonath|11 years ago
mentos|11 years ago
Why aren't we limiting the sale of bullets (explosives)?
edit: Chris Rock said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA
hga|11 years ago
Except for some "slave states" as I've taken to calling them, you can buy ammo mail order, often with a statement of age or perhaps a photocopy of your drivers license. Powder, bullets, cases and primers by mail, although there may be limits to the amount of powder you can hold before the BATF wants a license, safe(r) storage, etc. And similarly your local fire department prefers or may demand limits.
And this stuff is stable, lasts a long time. My father has several 25 pound casks of powder he or his father bought before or after WWII that he's still reloading from, and ammo manufactured in WWII is still being used (although a lot of it has corrosive primers, requiring much more thorough cleaning).
stevemck|11 years ago
When I grew up in Australia where there is basically no guns. I used to walk on streets even on a drunken Friday / Saturday night without fear.
I moved to the US a few years ago and since then every corner I turn, I see people and I worry.
I don't worry about getting robbed. No. I worry about a gun fight somewhere and a stray bullet hits me. I worry that someone drunk might hold me at gunpoint and at a moment of misjudgement he/she shoots me.
It is pretty hard to get killed by being punched. On the other hand, it is pretty easy to lose your mind for a second and shoot someone
I hate this project, because now the barrier to entry of owning a unregistered gun is so much lower
Shivetya|11 years ago
You vastly over exaggerate the issue here, this level or paranoia needs medical assistance.
Gun laws will not make people safer, making an already illegal act; using a gun against someone/something; even more illegal solves nothing.
We have a major problem with drugs. There is too much money in this because of the illegal nature of it. From the use and sale of drugs to prosecution, treatment, and imprisonment. The establishment has too much to lose to give it up and those in that system have too little to lose to not resort to violence.
Fix the drug laws, find good work for those who have too much idle time, and then we can work on the culture of violence that pervades many inner cities.
briandh|11 years ago
Scalestein|11 years ago
joesmo|11 years ago
Take a look at a state like New Jersey. Guns are illegal there for all intents and purposes. Does nothing to keep cities like Camden off the most dangerous cities in America list though.
moron4hire|11 years ago
worklogin|11 years ago
jonifico|11 years ago