I think it is funny that the YC crowd points to "naughty" when it benefits them and says things like "Am I supposed to feel sorry for someone that got caught exploiting online games?" when it doesn't.
When someone will take apart a game for fun, for better or for worse and often both, it is intrinsic. We praise capncrunch and damn this guy?
I'm sorry you lost your parents Scott. Congratulations on your child and marriage. YC is a mixed bag but I feel home here too.
There are a lot of ways to hack the world. I'm not sure if you've picked inconsistent/risky ones because of personality type/thrill or because it is where you landed. If its where you landed, move toward the center.
Sounds like you've got the basic small business skills to sell many things and you don't require permission or motivation to do so.
Consider hacking on your life instead of the games. What do you know that's inefficient where you are and could be interesting?
I hear heavy equipment auctions are big and profitable in rural areas and I know from experience it is a space software hasn't touched.
Pick a product or set of products (wave energy harvesting equipment?) and niche it via PPC. See what the market is like for them on eBay.
Go with the black hat and get picked up by a security consulting firm. I've rarely seen them be degree choosy with people who have the chops.
Don't make the mistake of thinking the only interesting things are on the fringes.
Lastly, ignore the rest of the noise of this thread. Keep your head up. Stay interested. Stay playful.
Thanks for this comment. It's filled with warmth and insight. "We praise capncrunch and damn this guy" is a great point.
I don't think the responses here are a single "YC crowd" being hypocritical. The thread is more interesting than that. It's at least two different groups having polarized responses to the article.
One group is rule-oriented and binary, quickly seizes on any violation of the (personal or social) code they believe in, and extends that into a personal judgment of the violator. Such people often express their judgments harshly. It's worth remembering that the same harshness inevitably applies to themselves; one doesn't get to handle that acid with gloves.
The other group, of course, identifies with the author's pluck and self-motivation and doesn't hold his dodgy beginnings against him. They don't necessarily support the cheating but admire the ingenuity more, and are generally more indulgent. They probably read the story as what PG called being "relentlessly resourceful".
This dichotomy plays out on HN all the time, though rarely so vividly. Both groups are well-represented both on HN and among programmers in general.
My Dad has been selling heavy equipment. There are plenty of online auction sites but an in person auction is incredibly effective. Also, industry magazines and local publications often advertise heavy equipment. Most rural folks I know don't have reliable internet and a good portion of the demographic doesn't use the internet. I really don't see a good market here.
Thank you very much for your kind and helpful response. I expected this post to get very little attention, but in the overwhelming response it's been amazing to read comments like yours.
Thankfully my mother is still alive, and is enjoying checking off what she still can from her bucket list. We're very grateful she's done well with the chemo so far.
Hacking my life is exactly what I've been up to recently. I'm learning, as fast as I can, everything I'll need to know to be the full stack developer for the project I'm working on. I'm so thankful for the free resources available to learn from.
>When someone will take apart a game for fun, for better or for worse and often both, it is intrinsic.
OP was taking apart a game for profit, not fun. Taking apart a game to because you have an intrinsic drive to understand how things work is one thing. Taking apart a game to exploit glitches to make real life money is completely different - that's why people get irritated at this and I don't think you understand that. In games with markets and limited drops, it's understandable that it pisses people off - introducing duped items lowers the value of every instance of that item in the market, which affects people who legitimately play the game. Hacking a single player game to make yourself a demigod in it is awesome because it doesn't affect other people.
I don't know who capncrunch is and I can't speak to what you perceive as some kind of HN bias, but I'm reading this thread and seeing many different responses posted by individual people. The most hostile comment I've read is yours.
Lastly, ignore the rest of the noise of this thread.
This is really obnoxious. You're essentially dismissing everyone else's opinion in this thread, whether you've read it and understood it or not. You have no idea about what OP is doing, who they are, or what they're capable of and or what their context is and you're saying "ignore all advice but mine." Incredibly arrogant and dismissive towards the rest of the community.
As the father of a three year old and an English BA holder in his second year professionally programming, I can relate.
As someone who inputs on hiring, I would recommend that you become a serial project completer rather than just a starter. I don't get the impression of follow through, which is unfortunately what the unfinished degree also communicates. The only way to combat this is to choose smaller chunks (don't start with solving energy) and see them through to decisive conclusion.
What is something you can build in six months that does not require government funding and also teaches you something for that bigger project?
It's very typical for people in demanding positions to learn that even really good ideas are quite common and not even that valuable. Good execution of good ideas is however extremely rare and is also extremely valuable.
The above recommendation is really really good. Anyone can start ambitious projects but only a rare few actually can finish them.
Great story. Many parallels to the performance marketing and affiliate worlds, where mostly young people stumble into great opportunities, usually exploiting loopholes or underserved markets such as this, and suddenly start printing a thousand dollars a day in profit. The vast majority of them know, deep down, that it can't last, but somehow still end up getting lulled into a feeling of complacency. That's the feeling I got from your post too. You are definitely not alone in your experience, and you already learned the most important lesson, which is you don't need anyone's permission to start a project and see if it works. If you're ever in a similar situation again, take the money day by day and remind yourself that at some point the ATM machine is going to shut down. Of the dozen or so liquid USD millionaire affiliates I knew in my 20s, I'd say half are bankrupt or close to it today.
Thanks for sharing your story Scott; I've lurked on HN far longer and never had the courage to stick my neck out like you have today. I hope this leads to something amazing for you and your family!
Thank you so much for your kind comment. Like mentioned in another comment, my post was primarily meant to be cathartic. I didn't expect it to get much attention so I've been kind of overwhelmed by the responses.
It's interesting to read the story of someone else who has profited from the exploitation of video games.
I did so from a more human perspective, I sold gold either bought from other player characters or harvested using automation in popular MMOs.
I would have never thought of it as a business. My income was steady for 5 + years, and not a day went by where I didn't consider the possibility of the game company wiping out all of my 'assets' in entirety, leaving me penniless had I not saved, and worst -- jobless.
Fun times. Thanks for writing this, although I think that "I would've been a great employee at..." is too speculative. It's so hard to say without actually doing it, it's not just your own skills/actions that you have to worry about in business.
How does someone get 100k in debt from undergrad? Is that a thing? I know folks with graduate and professional degrees from not-very-cheap institutions who aren't at the 100k mark. That's med school level.
I too haven't graduated from college, and I have had no trouble finding work because of it. AOL wouldn't look at my resumé, and I assume other large companies won't either, but there are a ton of startups and other shops that will beg you to work for them if you demonstrate a clear ability to excel in their environment. This is probably the most non-graduate friendly career industry out there.
Your first step should be to get a job, and QA sounds like a great place for you. You'd be surprised how easy it is to move out of QA and into dev if you can demonstrate aptitude for development tasks. Many people got their foot in the door this way, including myself.
Anyway, I bet this was cathartic to write, but I dunno what I was supposed to take from this. Selling illicit goods is a high-risk endeavor?
In-state price at a good state school is about $22k/year with room and board.
Figure you work a minimum wage 40 hours a week for 12 weeks during the summer. There's $3480. Now, figure you average 10 hours a week for the other 40 weeks of the year. There's $2900. Figure you're an outstanding student, so you got a one-time $2000 scholarship payout from winning a bunch of awards in high school.
There's a good chance at many large state schools that, even if you're focused, you'll need an extra semester or two due to limited course availability. Not counting the possibility of recovery from a leave of absence related to (mental) illness or family emergency, etc. Let's say you do one summer semester and it costs exactly half of a traditional year's net price.
So we're looking at:
+ $99k in bills and spending
- $10k for 3 summers of work
- $13k for 9 semesters of work
- $2k in total merit scholarship payout.
That leaves us with a $74k education. If mom and dad aren't buying, then there's $75k in principal. At 6.8% over 10 years (the federal government's deal, but it's capped; your actual rate from the private sector will be worse) that's $102k in payments.
That's for someone who did the "responsible" thing: went to state school, got scholarships, and worked continuously.
Now imagine that you go to a private school where the price after need-based financial aid is in the $30k-$40k range. Or, worse, that you go to private school and your parents are rich, so you qualify for no need-based financial aid at all, but your parents still don't want to fund your education. Then you're looking at $60k/year.
See where this is going? It's easier than you might think.
I went to a school (Middlebury) with pretty generous financial aid and ended up owing ~80K in student loans after four years. I picked Middlebury in part because they were the only school of their type to offer full need-based financial aid. For reference, I graduated in 1997.
100K in American undergraduate debt unfortunately does not sound surprising.
I went to a state school over 15 years ago, and while I haven't done the math, I'm almost positive my total expenses over four years exceeded 100k even then. I was lucky enough to have money from my parents, good paying jobs (for a student) and some scholarships and grants, so I walked away with only about $20k of debt. But I think these days it would be really easy to rack up $100k.
It's pretty easy! It's not hard to find schools where tuition and fees end up at about $20k/yr. Housing in many college towns is expensive, so that's another $5k/yr. Then there's normal cost of living, so lets call it another $2k/yr. Multiply by 4, take interest of lets say 3% into account, and hey presto, you're quite a ways over $100k!
The even sadder thing is that those are fairly conservative numbers. Out of state tuition and fees at many state schools can get up to the $30k range (I went to CU-Boulder, which is apparently up to $33,151 now), $5k for housing is cheap, $2k for expenses is pretty low, and 3% interest is very low.
> Your first step should be to get a job, and QA sounds like a great place for you. You'd be surprised how easy it is to move out of QA and into dev if you can demonstrate aptitude for development tasks. Many people got their foot in the door this way, including myself.
I suspect scobar's main problem is location. I know most of the West coast focuses more on experience and attitude. The Midwest, East Coast, and South East not so much unless he's close to a big metro (like NY, Boston, Austin, the triangle, or Atlanta) or his degree or course of study was more technical. He may have to move.
Get out of Montana. Seems you already feel you should. Top people in top cities will laugh at the idea of a degree being everything as much as you do, probably more.
I can't believe this has been up for 4 hours and I'm the first person to suggest this.
Well, I actually did that when I went back east to college.
But in today's world, you don't need to be anywhere. It wasn't that long ago that one of the top .net consultants lived in Billings, Montana. He, like many consultants, would fly out Sunday evening, and back on Thursday. And he also wrote a book or two.
So today it is even easier to be remote and be a major contributor. As in 37 signals.
I can't believe this has been up for 4 hours and I'm the first person to suggest this. Perhaps as the comment is a little harsh.
> "I know you're full of shit because I have connections in the elite crowd of the game hacking community. These are the two most popular games right now. My connections tell me it's impossible to duplicate items in either game, but you claim to have a dupe method for both. Don't waste my time by contacting me again."
For some reason reading this quote really bothered me. Probably be it reinforces the theme that hacking is some magical art that can grant nuclear access codes to some random 13 year old slamming away on a keyboard, and this site owner bought into that and praises this "elite hacking community".
Even paraphrased, it doesn't make logical sense: It should be really easy to prove that you have a duping exploit in a game, so why didn't the prospective-buyer at least ask for a demonstration, or why didn't the OP offer such a demonstration? It's just too convenient.
It's far more likely that OP was either unable to prove it or refused to do so, and the potential-buyer said "stop wasting my time then".
> I just wished there were some way (beyond a traditional resume) that I could express how I truly would've been a great employee at Google[x].
Well, actually, there is -- the only thing that can express that would be making progress on the problem...
If you're ready for a big dose of realism (and at the risk of fueling some dangerous fires), one can dig deeper into the trust disconnect that fuels acqui-hires here:
There is no malice in my post but the author really needs to think about the world from other peoples perspectives.
> I'm not a fan of your previous methods of making money. Not because I see things in binary or I have a strong desire to follow rules, but because I enjoy the sport of it. When using an exploit, you detract from that sport, whether doing it from the supplier side or whether you play the role of the kid walking about kicking over others sand castles, you are talking a stance that you don't give a toss about the victims and they're pretty well justified in feeling the same way about you.
> If you want someone to give you money for a research grant or another type of funding, or even just a job, you're going to have to give them a reason to believe in you. Your life story may make them feel sad for you but it's not going to land you a well paying job.
> The fact you've built a 'successful business' on a house of cards and either forgot to save or never made enough money to justify it in the first place is not something that reflects amazingly well on you.
> If you want to be employed by someone else, you'll need to build a reputation. You can do that by taking an entry level job and working your way up, or by getting a degree and then taking an entry level job and working your way up. Unless you're doing some pretty prolific and utilised works, you're not gonna skip those entry level jobs.
> You come across as a bit lazy or too cocky, always looking for the quick fix or to skip to the end. Fact is, a lot of people know enough to build things, few know enough to build things well. There's a lot of knowledge that is supposed to be passed down during those junior roles that you want to bypass.
Still, like I said there's no malice here. I wish you all the best and I figure if you really have that much drive, you'll land on your feet eventually. But don't get caught in the trap that you're too good for QA work, you'll find most of your peers eat some dirt climbing the ladder, degree or no.
Thank you for your comment. When I wrote the blog post, I had no idea it would be read by so many people. I wrote it thinking some friends, family, and acquaintances would be the majority of the audience. Those people already know who I am, and would understand that it was not written as a plea for more respect or attention, nor to seek employment.
You are right, I'm not too good for QA work (remember I also delivered newspapers to make ends meet), but I couldn't afford to relocate and pay my monthly expenses on a QA job salary at that point in my life.
Having been born in the US, I have it easy (even if I haven't taken full advantage of my privilege) compared with many others in the world. Your suggestion is to get an entry level job, or finish the degree first, then get an entry level job. I'm curious, is that is the same advice you'd offer to a non-US citizen?
We take for granted how easy it is to climb the corporate ladder or get a degree, and our society values those indicators. It seems as if the objectives behind them have been forgotten though. What should be valued is humility, a good work ethic, and a solid education with curiosity to continue learning and improving. If one meets the objectives but hasn't accomplished the accepted indicators, then that person often faces prejudice (at least in the countries I've lived in).
I'm not trying to imply I've met all of the desired objectives. I just strongly disagree with jumping through the necessary hoops to get ahead because everyone has to do it; especially if jumping through the hoops gets someone no closer to meeting the desired objective.
I'm sorry for the rant. I hope you understand my response is not about me, but about how unfair I think it is that most are so fiercely judged by indicators rather than the characteristics they're meant to imply.
I've written programs for myself whenever I needed something that didn't exist (or I needed to improve), but I'm pretty certain I don't know as much as I should to consider myself a decent programmer. So, I'm learning as fast as I can. I didn't mean to imply I was still searching for employment; in fact I'm not. I'm working on a startup to help others who are struggling to get employed, and who (with better guidance) can acquire the skills employers want them to have.
I considered the biggest adversity to be losing my father. He'd always been a pillar of support for me, and really showed me what unconditional love meant. I lost him right when I had to become that pillar for my own son. But the thread kind of blew up about how I'd struggled financially.
One tip for quick and one time easy money, in similar vein to exploiting dupe bugs (especially when it comes to people dismissing it as impossible :) - sport betting odds arbitrage. Made ~35% in one month. At the end of it, I was banned almost everywhere, which is why it's an one time affair (unless you start to use fake identities - I didn't).
I read the whole post, and it's just left me with a strong sense of unease. A gut-feeling that strongly reminds me of self-stories I've heard from certain people in real life, among them a next-cubicle coworker who was eventually institutionalized.
> When he finally responded, I was so excited that I sent him a long story (like this one) explaining my life, and gave him a link to a website with some of my ideas. After receiving no response, I realized how selfish I was to think he had time to read all of that.
> I still had hope though, so I narrated all of it and sent him .mp3 files so he could listen to it while he was jogging or something.
Putting your autobiography on tape for a prospective employer after already sending a text version... well, I think it's a sign.
In all seriousness, I believe the author could see big personal benefits from some kind of professional counseling about this stuff, as opposed to throwing it all out on the internet.
>I think the author needs some kind of mental help or therapy which I am not qualified to provide.
Maybe, but I doubt it. This just seems like inexperience. It took me a very long time to figure out the transition between worlds that are about you (school) to worlds that are not about you (work). The transition is not one of "selfishness" as much as it's about perspective.
Yeah, I got the same vibe. Don't forget coming up with a world-changing solar energy breakthrough that nobody responds to simply because he doesn't have credentials. I mean, it's certainly possible. But what is the _likely_ scenario here?
I was expecting some kind of payoff at the end, but nope. Just a whole lot of money lost and little to show for it.
Confidence is important but so is doubt. Not all ideas are good, and just believing in an idea isn't enough to make it a success. And the "safe" corporate jobs can be just as fulfilling in their own way.
Exploiting games for profit is not something to be proud of. It seems like you have some of the necessary skills to run a business, but you need to find a product that is not based on theft.
>>Exploiting games for profit is not something to be proud of.
If a candidate had on their resume a blog link with detailed explanation of a technical exploit in a videogame and how they profited by it... that'd be a +1 in my book.
Throughout my teenage years I taught myself to program by writing bots to play mmorpgs for me then I would sell the gold. I made a fraction of what this guy did, but for a 13-17 year old I was doing quite well.
I have no delusions that what I was doing was "virtuous" or benefiting the world and what have you. But by the same token I don't think what I did was the opposite of that either - I certainly wasn't selling a product based on theft as you put it. And in the end it's the main reason I'm a programmer today, nearly a decade later.
[+] [-] johnnyg|11 years ago|reply
When someone will take apart a game for fun, for better or for worse and often both, it is intrinsic. We praise capncrunch and damn this guy?
I'm sorry you lost your parents Scott. Congratulations on your child and marriage. YC is a mixed bag but I feel home here too.
There are a lot of ways to hack the world. I'm not sure if you've picked inconsistent/risky ones because of personality type/thrill or because it is where you landed. If its where you landed, move toward the center.
Sounds like you've got the basic small business skills to sell many things and you don't require permission or motivation to do so.
Consider hacking on your life instead of the games. What do you know that's inefficient where you are and could be interesting?
I hear heavy equipment auctions are big and profitable in rural areas and I know from experience it is a space software hasn't touched.
Pick a product or set of products (wave energy harvesting equipment?) and niche it via PPC. See what the market is like for them on eBay.
Go with the black hat and get picked up by a security consulting firm. I've rarely seen them be degree choosy with people who have the chops.
Don't make the mistake of thinking the only interesting things are on the fringes.
Lastly, ignore the rest of the noise of this thread. Keep your head up. Stay interested. Stay playful.
[+] [-] dang|11 years ago|reply
I don't think the responses here are a single "YC crowd" being hypocritical. The thread is more interesting than that. It's at least two different groups having polarized responses to the article.
One group is rule-oriented and binary, quickly seizes on any violation of the (personal or social) code they believe in, and extends that into a personal judgment of the violator. Such people often express their judgments harshly. It's worth remembering that the same harshness inevitably applies to themselves; one doesn't get to handle that acid with gloves.
The other group, of course, identifies with the author's pluck and self-motivation and doesn't hold his dodgy beginnings against him. They don't necessarily support the cheating but admire the ingenuity more, and are generally more indulgent. They probably read the story as what PG called being "relentlessly resourceful".
This dichotomy plays out on HN all the time, though rarely so vividly. Both groups are well-represented both on HN and among programmers in general.
[+] [-] diminoten|11 years ago|reply
Go with the black hat and end up in jail. Don't do this, guy. It's not worth it. Please do good. :-/
[+] [-] atomical|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scobar|11 years ago|reply
Thankfully my mother is still alive, and is enjoying checking off what she still can from her bucket list. We're very grateful she's done well with the chemo so far.
Hacking my life is exactly what I've been up to recently. I'm learning, as fast as I can, everything I'll need to know to be the full stack developer for the project I'm working on. I'm so thankful for the free resources available to learn from.
[+] [-] benihana|11 years ago|reply
OP was taking apart a game for profit, not fun. Taking apart a game to because you have an intrinsic drive to understand how things work is one thing. Taking apart a game to exploit glitches to make real life money is completely different - that's why people get irritated at this and I don't think you understand that. In games with markets and limited drops, it's understandable that it pisses people off - introducing duped items lowers the value of every instance of that item in the market, which affects people who legitimately play the game. Hacking a single player game to make yourself a demigod in it is awesome because it doesn't affect other people.
I don't know who capncrunch is and I can't speak to what you perceive as some kind of HN bias, but I'm reading this thread and seeing many different responses posted by individual people. The most hostile comment I've read is yours.
Lastly, ignore the rest of the noise of this thread.
This is really obnoxious. You're essentially dismissing everyone else's opinion in this thread, whether you've read it and understood it or not. You have no idea about what OP is doing, who they are, or what they're capable of and or what their context is and you're saying "ignore all advice but mine." Incredibly arrogant and dismissive towards the rest of the community.
[+] [-] mlangdon|11 years ago|reply
As someone who inputs on hiring, I would recommend that you become a serial project completer rather than just a starter. I don't get the impression of follow through, which is unfortunately what the unfinished degree also communicates. The only way to combat this is to choose smaller chunks (don't start with solving energy) and see them through to decisive conclusion.
What is something you can build in six months that does not require government funding and also teaches you something for that bigger project?
[+] [-] wmt|11 years ago|reply
The above recommendation is really really good. Anyone can start ambitious projects but only a rare few actually can finish them.
[+] [-] nugget|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j_s|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scobar|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] serf|11 years ago|reply
I did so from a more human perspective, I sold gold either bought from other player characters or harvested using automation in popular MMOs.
I would have never thought of it as a business. My income was steady for 5 + years, and not a day went by where I didn't consider the possibility of the game company wiping out all of my 'assets' in entirety, leaving me penniless had I not saved, and worst -- jobless.
Fun times. Thanks for writing this, although I think that "I would've been a great employee at..." is too speculative. It's so hard to say without actually doing it, it's not just your own skills/actions that you have to worry about in business.
[+] [-] wglb|11 years ago|reply
Google may be a tough choice, as they do seem to favor PhDs.
But you ('scobar) have a lot of talent and initiative and a very marketable skill set.
[+] [-] diminoten|11 years ago|reply
I too haven't graduated from college, and I have had no trouble finding work because of it. AOL wouldn't look at my resumé, and I assume other large companies won't either, but there are a ton of startups and other shops that will beg you to work for them if you demonstrate a clear ability to excel in their environment. This is probably the most non-graduate friendly career industry out there.
Your first step should be to get a job, and QA sounds like a great place for you. You'd be surprised how easy it is to move out of QA and into dev if you can demonstrate aptitude for development tasks. Many people got their foot in the door this way, including myself.
Anyway, I bet this was cathartic to write, but I dunno what I was supposed to take from this. Selling illicit goods is a high-risk endeavor?
[+] [-] superuser2|11 years ago|reply
Figure you work a minimum wage 40 hours a week for 12 weeks during the summer. There's $3480. Now, figure you average 10 hours a week for the other 40 weeks of the year. There's $2900. Figure you're an outstanding student, so you got a one-time $2000 scholarship payout from winning a bunch of awards in high school.
There's a good chance at many large state schools that, even if you're focused, you'll need an extra semester or two due to limited course availability. Not counting the possibility of recovery from a leave of absence related to (mental) illness or family emergency, etc. Let's say you do one summer semester and it costs exactly half of a traditional year's net price.
So we're looking at:
+ $99k in bills and spending - $10k for 3 summers of work - $13k for 9 semesters of work - $2k in total merit scholarship payout.
That leaves us with a $74k education. If mom and dad aren't buying, then there's $75k in principal. At 6.8% over 10 years (the federal government's deal, but it's capped; your actual rate from the private sector will be worse) that's $102k in payments.
That's for someone who did the "responsible" thing: went to state school, got scholarships, and worked continuously.
Now imagine that you go to a private school where the price after need-based financial aid is in the $30k-$40k range. Or, worse, that you go to private school and your parents are rich, so you qualify for no need-based financial aid at all, but your parents still don't want to fund your education. Then you're looking at $60k/year.
See where this is going? It's easier than you might think.
[+] [-] idlewords|11 years ago|reply
100K in American undergraduate debt unfortunately does not sound surprising.
[+] [-] zippergz|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sanderjd|11 years ago|reply
The even sadder thing is that those are fairly conservative numbers. Out of state tuition and fees at many state schools can get up to the $30k range (I went to CU-Boulder, which is apparently up to $33,151 now), $5k for housing is cheap, $2k for expenses is pretty low, and 3% interest is very low.
[+] [-] chaostheory|11 years ago|reply
I suspect scobar's main problem is location. I know most of the West coast focuses more on experience and attitude. The Midwest, East Coast, and South East not so much unless he's close to a big metro (like NY, Boston, Austin, the triangle, or Atlanta) or his degree or course of study was more technical. He may have to move.
[+] [-] reduce|11 years ago|reply
I can't believe this has been up for 4 hours and I'm the first person to suggest this.
[+] [-] wglb|11 years ago|reply
Well, I actually did that when I went back east to college.
But in today's world, you don't need to be anywhere. It wasn't that long ago that one of the top .net consultants lived in Billings, Montana. He, like many consultants, would fly out Sunday evening, and back on Thursday. And he also wrote a book or two.
So today it is even easier to be remote and be a major contributor. As in 37 signals.
I can't believe this has been up for 4 hours and I'm the first person to suggest this. Perhaps as the comment is a little harsh.
[+] [-] Igglyboo|11 years ago|reply
For some reason reading this quote really bothered me. Probably be it reinforces the theme that hacking is some magical art that can grant nuclear access codes to some random 13 year old slamming away on a keyboard, and this site owner bought into that and praises this "elite hacking community".
[+] [-] Terr_|11 years ago|reply
Even paraphrased, it doesn't make logical sense: It should be really easy to prove that you have a duping exploit in a game, so why didn't the prospective-buyer at least ask for a demonstration, or why didn't the OP offer such a demonstration? It's just too convenient.
It's far more likely that OP was either unable to prove it or refused to do so, and the potential-buyer said "stop wasting my time then".
[+] [-] polarix|11 years ago|reply
Well, actually, there is -- the only thing that can express that would be making progress on the problem...
If you're ready for a big dose of realism (and at the risk of fueling some dangerous fires), one can dig deeper into the trust disconnect that fuels acqui-hires here:
https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/vc-istan-7-s...
[+] [-] ownagefool|11 years ago|reply
> I'm not a fan of your previous methods of making money. Not because I see things in binary or I have a strong desire to follow rules, but because I enjoy the sport of it. When using an exploit, you detract from that sport, whether doing it from the supplier side or whether you play the role of the kid walking about kicking over others sand castles, you are talking a stance that you don't give a toss about the victims and they're pretty well justified in feeling the same way about you.
> If you want someone to give you money for a research grant or another type of funding, or even just a job, you're going to have to give them a reason to believe in you. Your life story may make them feel sad for you but it's not going to land you a well paying job.
> The fact you've built a 'successful business' on a house of cards and either forgot to save or never made enough money to justify it in the first place is not something that reflects amazingly well on you.
> If you want to be employed by someone else, you'll need to build a reputation. You can do that by taking an entry level job and working your way up, or by getting a degree and then taking an entry level job and working your way up. Unless you're doing some pretty prolific and utilised works, you're not gonna skip those entry level jobs.
> You come across as a bit lazy or too cocky, always looking for the quick fix or to skip to the end. Fact is, a lot of people know enough to build things, few know enough to build things well. There's a lot of knowledge that is supposed to be passed down during those junior roles that you want to bypass.
Still, like I said there's no malice here. I wish you all the best and I figure if you really have that much drive, you'll land on your feet eventually. But don't get caught in the trap that you're too good for QA work, you'll find most of your peers eat some dirt climbing the ladder, degree or no.
[+] [-] scobar|11 years ago|reply
You are right, I'm not too good for QA work (remember I also delivered newspapers to make ends meet), but I couldn't afford to relocate and pay my monthly expenses on a QA job salary at that point in my life.
Having been born in the US, I have it easy (even if I haven't taken full advantage of my privilege) compared with many others in the world. Your suggestion is to get an entry level job, or finish the degree first, then get an entry level job. I'm curious, is that is the same advice you'd offer to a non-US citizen?
We take for granted how easy it is to climb the corporate ladder or get a degree, and our society values those indicators. It seems as if the objectives behind them have been forgotten though. What should be valued is humility, a good work ethic, and a solid education with curiosity to continue learning and improving. If one meets the objectives but hasn't accomplished the accepted indicators, then that person often faces prejudice (at least in the countries I've lived in).
I'm not trying to imply I've met all of the desired objectives. I just strongly disagree with jumping through the necessary hoops to get ahead because everyone has to do it; especially if jumping through the hoops gets someone no closer to meeting the desired objective.
I'm sorry for the rant. I hope you understand my response is not about me, but about how unfair I think it is that most are so fiercely judged by indicators rather than the characteristics they're meant to imply.
[+] [-] morgante|11 years ago|reply
(I'm not in the video game or affiliate marketing scene, but I'd assume hacking games & building websites requires some technical ability.)
If you can code, it should be trivial to find a job of some sort regardless of your education.
[+] [-] scobar|11 years ago|reply
I considered the biggest adversity to be losing my father. He'd always been a pillar of support for me, and really showed me what unconditional love meant. I lost him right when I had to become that pillar for my own son. But the thread kind of blew up about how I'd struggled financially.
[+] [-] diziet|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duckingtest|11 years ago|reply
One tip for quick and one time easy money, in similar vein to exploiting dupe bugs (especially when it comes to people dismissing it as impossible :) - sport betting odds arbitrage. Made ~35% in one month. At the end of it, I was banned almost everywhere, which is why it's an one time affair (unless you start to use fake identities - I didn't).
[+] [-] tomrod|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GFK_of_xmaspast|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Terr_|11 years ago|reply
> When he finally responded, I was so excited that I sent him a long story (like this one) explaining my life, and gave him a link to a website with some of my ideas. After receiving no response, I realized how selfish I was to think he had time to read all of that.
> I still had hope though, so I narrated all of it and sent him .mp3 files so he could listen to it while he was jogging or something.
Putting your autobiography on tape for a prospective employer after already sending a text version... well, I think it's a sign.
In all seriousness, I believe the author could see big personal benefits from some kind of professional counseling about this stuff, as opposed to throwing it all out on the internet.
[+] [-] dropit_sphere|11 years ago|reply
Maybe, but I doubt it. This just seems like inexperience. It took me a very long time to figure out the transition between worlds that are about you (school) to worlds that are not about you (work). The transition is not one of "selfishness" as much as it's about perspective.
PG describes the dichotomy well in "Two Kinds of Judgment:" http://paulgraham.com/judgement.html
Venkatesh Rao explains similar phenomena in his Gervais series: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...
[+] [-] wizzard|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] h43k3r|11 years ago|reply
You can learn 20$ an hour teaching computer science in your part time.
You can easily make more than 60$ a day.
[+] [-] lmm|11 years ago|reply
Confidence is important but so is doubt. Not all ideas are good, and just believing in an idea isn't enough to make it a success. And the "safe" corporate jobs can be just as fulfilling in their own way.
[+] [-] eclipxe|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smtddr|11 years ago|reply
If a candidate had on their resume a blog link with detailed explanation of a technical exploit in a videogame and how they profited by it... that'd be a +1 in my book.
[+] [-] nmjohn|11 years ago|reply
Throughout my teenage years I taught myself to program by writing bots to play mmorpgs for me then I would sell the gold. I made a fraction of what this guy did, but for a 13-17 year old I was doing quite well.
I have no delusions that what I was doing was "virtuous" or benefiting the world and what have you. But by the same token I don't think what I did was the opposite of that either - I certainly wasn't selling a product based on theft as you put it. And in the end it's the main reason I'm a programmer today, nearly a decade later.
[+] [-] lucb1e|11 years ago|reply