Nice, that and $6 will get him a coffee at Starbucks :-). I think it is great that the kid's Dad is allowing him to pursue his ideas, but its a challenging place to be in without additional support from the family. The challenge is that his feat is called out because he is '5' not because the exam is particularly hard. So later when he completes the Cisco one and he's 10 it won't be as 'good' because hey, he is 10. If expectations and understanding aren't managed the fact that the kid is older and won't be "special" any more can be a problem for them later.
I hope his father continues to foster a life long love of learning and does not get get hung up on the whole 'prodigy' narrative. In college there was a 12 year old girl in my physics class who was miserable. She had an eidetic memory and could regurgitate any fact or formula, but she was deeply unhappy with her life and the path (and expectations!) her parent put on her. I wouldn't want that for any kid.
When I was a little kid I too aced anything I wanted to, without trying (granted I never signed up for particularly hard stuff, like this).
My parents, and all their adult friends were convinced I was going to be the "Brazillian Bill Gates" (I think mostly because I was the only person interested in computers at that time in their social circle...)
Now I am 26, unemployed, and desperately looking for a coding job... Now everyone is interested in computers, everyone is a gamer too (when I was a kid when I said I played computer games people looked at me like if I was an alien), and I did not even entered a CS course, so I am just a regular jobless coder.
It is making me very, very desperate to not fall into depression, specially when I compare my life now and my life as a kid, and realize that my life is essentially stagnant since I was 16, the same things I had while 16, is what I have now, except health (that now is worse).
>"...but she was deeply unhappy with her life and the path (and expectations!) her parent put on her."
I find myself thinking about this an awful lot as I raise my first child.
I've never encountered anything on the level of a 12 year in college physics, but I did spend some time with kids who had clearly been reared with such things in mind to much the same effect.
In general I'd caution parents to recognize that children are people, not personal projects or possessions.
">>> I hope his father continues to foster a life long love of learning and does not get get hung up on the whole 'prodigy' narrative. "
I totally agree, I had a mate who was brilliant in mathematics, skipped two grades in secondary school and was in my class. Although he was great in school, he struggled when it came to being social with people 2/3 years older than him.He was unhappy and always struggled to maintain friendships.
I hear what you're saying, but this kid sounds okay to me.
I especially liked the quote from his mom at the end:
"I'm very happy and very proud, I don't want to see him set a world record every day. But I want him to do his best whatever he does in his life," she said.
It may sound subtle, but there's a world of difference between pressure to be the best and pressure to do your best.
From what the Dad said in the article, he seems aware of the need for kids to be kids - "too much computing at his age is not good for him," "I just want him to do his best in whatever he chooses", and so on.
I learned to program for my own enjoyment around the age of 7, and I don't think it's done me any particular harm. I was not a social kid, but if I hadn't been programming, I'd have found some other way to avoid human contact.
"Ayan says he hopes to launch a UK-based IT hub similar to
America's Silicon Valley one day, which he intends to call
E-Valley.
He also wants to start his own company."
It's sets both the tone and quality level of discussions regarding IT in the general public.
The lack of normal social life from being a geek in the eyes of other kids will likely do the kid more damage then the benefit he will receive from being a child computer wiz.
Let kids be kids and don't try to make them adults early, it usually doesn't turn out to be as glorified as the adults think it will.
I would have been a geek deeply into street magic and Star Trek without computers. I suspect that would have gone precisely nowhere.
Pre-computers, the other kids already couldn't handle my vocabulary and my tendency to question the logic of their decisions. The effect I had on adults and authority figures was even worse and they reacted by constantly putting me into the slow classes in the hope that this would make me conform.
#$%@ that! There was not going to be a normal childhood for me. I wasn't "normal."
Computers gave me purpose. I spent all that time in the slow classes designing games and coming up with lists of likely user IDs and passwords. And much later in life when my dead-end doctoral career came crashing down around me, they tripled my salary in a day.
I say give the kid some toys, make sure he learns the importance of exercise and diet as he matures, and he'll be fine. Who needs normal?
"Normal" means working a low-wage service sector job until the robots replace you. The last thing I want for my kid is normal.
Being a geek is only isolating if you can't find a strong community of other geeks (of all ages) and you're thrown into the typical prison-factory-like school system. Around here we have plenty of geek families, and they're disproportionately likely to go to unconventional schools or build their own educations piecemeal.
It will be wonderful when we can bring this kind of education to everyone and make it "normal". But I'm not about to wait around for that.
Highly dependent on your definition of normal social life.
At least in the US, it involves an orchestrated pre-arranged "play date" with parents A, B, and C driving to parent D's house in order to have a planned playing experience with D's kids' toys for 2 hours and 30 minutes, while parents themselves are trying to maintain conversation flow that's centered around discussion topics that all present individuals (hopefully) share.
Maybe if adults like yourself would stop trying to push conformity on their children, young prodigies wouldn't have such a hard time.
I was pretty sharp with computers and math when I was that age, or a bit older. I wasn't passing certification tests (there probably weren't any Microsoft ones at the time) but I was programming in BASIC and modifying games that we played in the classroom and jumping ahead on my math. My peers were supportive. At around the age of 12 I changed schools and suddenly being smart was bad just because it was a different group of children with different attitudes.
Kids shouldn't be pushed too much but they also shouldn't be held back just because you think it will make them an outcast. That attitude is far more damaging.
That isn't logical. You are being ageist, and suggesting that because a five year old was capable of acquiring a certification, that the certification has less value. It's also entirely possible that this incredible kid is supremely skilled, and would do a great job configuring your network/IT system.
Put another way - if I can find you a five year old ranked 1200 on the ELO system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system) (the equivalent of "Basic Competence" in chess) - does that say more about the ELO system, or the five year old?
When I did my last Microsoft certification I could have easily passed without having any clue by just memorizing all the questions and answers. However I don't know if today's exams are any different than 3 or 4 years ago or if this one is substantially different from .NET certification exams.
> "The hardest challenge was explaining the language of the test to a five-year-old. But he seemed to pick it up and has a very good memory," explained Ayan's father Asim.
Maybe I'm just cynical but this made me think that the boy simply memorized the questions on the some of the previous tests that have been posted on the Internet ("dumps").
I agree that he probably did, and in an ideal world I think it would be better if he was a bit older and had a little more knowledge of the whole subject area. But where do you draw the line? If he memorizes some information, and that leads to him being the 'computer expert' amongst friends and family, and he ends up in an IT career that he really enjoys because of it, is that a bad thing?
My first experiences were looking up basic problems online, then memorizing them enough so that if the problem happened again I could fix it. Eventually I wanted to dig more into the actual problem, and just like that I was hooked!
So yeah, it might be a problem but hopefully it'll lead to something productive and if the kid actually enjoys it I can't see the harm.
Poor Microsoft certified professionals, I can hear the client complaints now "What? Why do you charge so much? I can get a five year old to do your job"
To be fair "You don't go to jail for using child labour" is a good reason to me. Also tack on "and my rate just went up £10 for hearing your stupid comment."
My Parents generation talk of "mid-life crisis". Generation Y started to write on "quarter-life crisis" (post college moving back in with parents due to no work). I suspect this kid will suffer from "eighth-life crisis" if he keeps this pace up.
I was doing generally nerdy things at 5 but I fear this kid will outpace himself in a way that will lead to sadness and isolation.
Tech parents of HN, do you think this will help or hurt this young man in the long run?
Parents should remember to praise effort and notjust good results. Parents should teach and model good habits - it feels weird to be talking about work / life balance for a five year old but he'll be attending primary school all day so it's probably important to be teaching him how to make and maintain friendships, as well as giving him time and support for his hobbies.
I certainly don't think publicity is a good idea. That just puts a weird skew and makes it hard to manage expectations for later life.
> Tech parents of HN, do you think this will help or hurt this young man in the long run?
We don't have any information on the factors that actually matter.
If he is intrinsically motivated to do what he's done, and not just doing it to please his parents, he will be fine. As long as he's free to move onto something new when/if the excitement wanes, it's all just good learning experience.
This is one reason it's important that parents praise "doing" over "being". If you keep telling your kid "You're so good at computers", that becomes part of their identity, and it's constraining, and it creates dangerous assumptions that ability is fixed and innate.
If instead we praise activity and persistence, the child feels free to switch topics, and learns to view ability as the product of practice.
This would be my worry too, because I've seen it in a few others. Eventually, they make it to a place (top tier college, big name company, etc) where they are no longer consistently the smartest person in the room, and they are unable to cope with the sudden competition that poses.
How could this cause any sort of long-term hurt to the kid? It's not like young kids with technical skills become "child stars" like young actors or musicians.
I would be interested in knowing what kind of program will this child create in the next years. If his success relays mainly on his good memory then perhaps nothing outstanding is to be seen, but it could be that there are other great capabilities that could allow him to excel in programming.
Perhaps we will see some very fine art of work in the foreseeable future. Time will tell.
its great the that kid is learning technology at an early age. but i really hope its not in replacement to learning how to make friends, play and enjoy being a kid. when i hear about how 5 year olds want to start companies it makes me cringe.
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|11 years ago|reply
I hope his father continues to foster a life long love of learning and does not get get hung up on the whole 'prodigy' narrative. In college there was a 12 year old girl in my physics class who was miserable. She had an eidetic memory and could regurgitate any fact or formula, but she was deeply unhappy with her life and the path (and expectations!) her parent put on her. I wouldn't want that for any kid.
[+] [-] speeder|11 years ago|reply
My parents, and all their adult friends were convinced I was going to be the "Brazillian Bill Gates" (I think mostly because I was the only person interested in computers at that time in their social circle...)
Now I am 26, unemployed, and desperately looking for a coding job... Now everyone is interested in computers, everyone is a gamer too (when I was a kid when I said I played computer games people looked at me like if I was an alien), and I did not even entered a CS course, so I am just a regular jobless coder.
It is making me very, very desperate to not fall into depression, specially when I compare my life now and my life as a kid, and realize that my life is essentially stagnant since I was 16, the same things I had while 16, is what I have now, except health (that now is worse).
[+] [-] incision|11 years ago|reply
I find myself thinking about this an awful lot as I raise my first child.
I've never encountered anything on the level of a 12 year in college physics, but I did spend some time with kids who had clearly been reared with such things in mind to much the same effect.
In general I'd caution parents to recognize that children are people, not personal projects or possessions.
[+] [-] computerjunkie|11 years ago|reply
I totally agree, I had a mate who was brilliant in mathematics, skipped two grades in secondary school and was in my class. Although he was great in school, he struggled when it came to being social with people 2/3 years older than him.He was unhappy and always struggled to maintain friendships.
[+] [-] Tenhundfeld|11 years ago|reply
I especially liked the quote from his mom at the end: "I'm very happy and very proud, I don't want to see him set a world record every day. But I want him to do his best whatever he does in his life," she said.
It may sound subtle, but there's a world of difference between pressure to be the best and pressure to do your best.
[+] [-] Devthrowaway80|11 years ago|reply
I learned to program for my own enjoyment around the age of 7, and I don't think it's done me any particular harm. I was not a social kid, but if I hadn't been programming, I'd have found some other way to avoid human contact.
No ragrets! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DnKNClu2XM
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] lazyant|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leonardinius|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melvinmt|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elpachuco|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gman129|11 years ago|reply
Let kids be kids and don't try to make them adults early, it usually doesn't turn out to be as glorified as the adults think it will.
[+] [-] varelse|11 years ago|reply
Pre-computers, the other kids already couldn't handle my vocabulary and my tendency to question the logic of their decisions. The effect I had on adults and authority figures was even worse and they reacted by constantly putting me into the slow classes in the hope that this would make me conform.
#$%@ that! There was not going to be a normal childhood for me. I wasn't "normal."
Computers gave me purpose. I spent all that time in the slow classes designing games and coming up with lists of likely user IDs and passwords. And much later in life when my dead-end doctoral career came crashing down around me, they tripled my salary in a day.
I say give the kid some toys, make sure he learns the importance of exercise and diet as he matures, and he'll be fine. Who needs normal?
[+] [-] ef4|11 years ago|reply
Being a geek is only isolating if you can't find a strong community of other geeks (of all ages) and you're thrown into the typical prison-factory-like school system. Around here we have plenty of geek families, and they're disproportionately likely to go to unconventional schools or build their own educations piecemeal.
It will be wonderful when we can bring this kind of education to everyone and make it "normal". But I'm not about to wait around for that.
[+] [-] prostoalex|11 years ago|reply
At least in the US, it involves an orchestrated pre-arranged "play date" with parents A, B, and C driving to parent D's house in order to have a planned playing experience with D's kids' toys for 2 hours and 30 minutes, while parents themselves are trying to maintain conversation flow that's centered around discussion topics that all present individuals (hopefully) share.
[+] [-] mikeash|11 years ago|reply
I was pretty sharp with computers and math when I was that age, or a bit older. I wasn't passing certification tests (there probably weren't any Microsoft ones at the time) but I was programming in BASIC and modifying games that we played in the classroom and jumping ahead on my math. My peers were supportive. At around the age of 12 I changed schools and suddenly being smart was bad just because it was a different group of children with different attitudes.
Kids shouldn't be pushed too much but they also shouldn't be held back just because you think it will make them an outcast. That attitude is far more damaging.
[+] [-] gregd|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ghshephard|11 years ago|reply
Put another way - if I can find you a five year old ranked 1200 on the ELO system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system) (the equivalent of "Basic Competence" in chess) - does that say more about the ELO system, or the five year old?
[+] [-] ceejayoz|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danbruc|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jlgaddis|11 years ago|reply
Maybe I'm just cynical but this made me think that the boy simply memorized the questions on the some of the previous tests that have been posted on the Internet ("dumps").
[+] [-] sghi|11 years ago|reply
My first experiences were looking up basic problems online, then memorizing them enough so that if the problem happened again I could fix it. Eventually I wanted to dig more into the actual problem, and just like that I was hooked!
So yeah, it might be a problem but hopefully it'll lead to something productive and if the kid actually enjoys it I can't see the harm.
[+] [-] Terr_|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaronbasssett|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] electromagnetic|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lbotos|11 years ago|reply
I was doing generally nerdy things at 5 but I fear this kid will outpace himself in a way that will lead to sadness and isolation.
Tech parents of HN, do you think this will help or hurt this young man in the long run?
[+] [-] DanBC|11 years ago|reply
I certainly don't think publicity is a good idea. That just puts a weird skew and makes it hard to manage expectations for later life.
[+] [-] ef4|11 years ago|reply
We don't have any information on the factors that actually matter.
If he is intrinsically motivated to do what he's done, and not just doing it to please his parents, he will be fine. As long as he's free to move onto something new when/if the excitement wanes, it's all just good learning experience.
This is one reason it's important that parents praise "doing" over "being". If you keep telling your kid "You're so good at computers", that becomes part of their identity, and it's constraining, and it creates dangerous assumptions that ability is fixed and innate.
If instead we praise activity and persistence, the child feels free to switch topics, and learns to view ability as the product of practice.
[+] [-] thearn4|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bentcorner|11 years ago|reply
Really though, there's almost no context so it's hard to tell either way.
[+] [-] warfangle|11 years ago|reply
You mean puberty?
[+] [-] pconner|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] barbudorojo|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bsg75|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unclesaamm|11 years ago|reply
Perfect typo
[+] [-] loco5niner|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chriogenix|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Splendor|11 years ago|reply