Posted because a lot of things in this rang true about founding tech companies for me as well:
There's a reason why big accomplishments always come with effusive thanks to family and friends. It's not just about giving thanks—it's about publicly apologizing to the people who've sacrificed so much so you can realize a dream.
The one constant that seems to come up in all these founder stories is that you better love what you're doing. There's no guarantee that your new business will be successful or profitable but it seems inevitable you will sink nearly all your time, energy, and money into it. You better be feel rewarded by the journey because that's all you can count on.
That's true. The only founder story I can think of that doesn't fit into the pattern is Scott Adams'.
Here's the counterargument: When I was a commercial
loan officer for a large bank, my boss taught us that
you should never make a loan to someone who is
following his passion.
[...]
My boss, who had been a commercial lender for over 30
years, said that the best loan customer is someone who
has no passion whatsoever, just a desire to work hard
at something that looks good on a spreadsheet.
[...]
On the other hand, Dilbert started out as just one of
many get-rich schemes I was willing to try. When it
started to look as if it might be a success, my passion
for cartooning increased because I realized it could be
my golden ticket.
Yes and as per the article and my own experience that's especially true when you think about going into food & beverages as it's the complete opposite of what it feels like being a customer - you have to love it (never-ending, physically and psychologically hard work) there really is no other way.
Edit: I enjoyed Peter Thiel's "Competition is For Losers" as it pretty much sums up what is wrong with this industry from a business perspective - http://startupclass.samaltman.com/courses/lec05/
> in all these founder stories [...] you better love what you're doing
I agree with you as a general point but I disagree in that you make it about founders.
As a general rule, if you have the chance/education/abilities to do, you should always pick a job where you love what you're doing, whether you're the founder or an important employee or a random grunt in a giant corporation.
You're going to do that for 8h+ hours a day, 5+ days a week for years on end. Make sure you enjoy it.
How do BBQ restaurants work? The two methods I can think of are: 1) you run out when you run out and that's it for the day 2) you keep stuff warm. I'd expect that to dry it out. I've heard some of the famous ones in the south use method #1.
Real BBQ is smoking stuff at low temperatures (not too far from 100C) for a long time - briskets can take 12+ hours or longer. So you can't just throw an extra one on when the customer orders, it's basically got to be ready.
I think if I ever had a serious amount of disposable money, I'd open a BBQ joint here in Italy.
> The reason that chicken is a royal pain in my ass is the execution of the dish in a barbecue setting. Every other barbecue item has a relatively long shelf life—contrary to what some snobs tell you, it doesn't need to be eaten straight from the smoker. At Franklin Barbecue in Austin, Texas, Aaron Franklin takes his brisket out at 3 a.m. to rest while the rest of his menu items cook. The restaurant opens at 11 a.m. and sells out shortly thereafter, which means that brisket you waited on line for hours for has been sitting in a warming box for no fewer than eight hours.
> In a barbecue setting, everything is done and cooked long before you show up. Now chicken? Kept warm, it'll stay nice and juicy for maybe an hour. After that it's all downhill.
I live in Mobile, AL. Meat Boss, the best barbecue place I've eaten by far, follows method number 1.
Additionally, they are only open for sandwiches from 11am until 2pm (or they run out) three days a week. Racks of ribs and pork butts can be ordered a day in advance and picked up Monday through Saturday.
Considering the low-and-slow technique of a lot of smoked / bbq meats, it's actually really hard to dry out most meats because few of them are lean (chicken breast is notorious for drying out, even with the low-and-slow approach).
You can keep things "warm" without keeping them under lights - a lower heat ( < 100F ) can keep beef and pork plenty moist.
I’ve worked in the food industry for quite a while, 16 years I think, often in kitchens but sometimes in other areas. About 20 months ago I launched my own food business. I’m the only employee. The few products I sell should be served fresh, so I go to the kitchen 364 days a year to prepare and deliver fresh goods. In some ways I can relate to Tyson Ho, in others I can’t, the difference being only how our work is similar or divergent.
He’s had much more attention than I’ve had. I’m not certain what he did to garner it, but I’ve worked hard to fly under the radar. From following the tech industry (and others) for many years, I’ve made it a point to not grow too fast, to avoid taking on more than is possible, physically or economically. I’d rather under-promise and then over-deliver. Or, as is often discussed in places like HN, I want to manage customers’ expectations.
One result is that I’ve done no marketing beyond some occasional use of Twitter. I don’t even have a website yet. In fact, I haven’t solicited one customer. Speaking to one person in food retail led to that person carrying my products when I launched, and every customer since has come by word of mouth. Since I only wholesale, my customers are not the people ultimately buying my products for consumption. So I do everything to keep my customers happy, word gradually spreads about my products, and other retailers find their way to me.
Still, I can understand the tight economics Mr. Ho describes. I was profitable within weeks of launching, but I’m not rolling in money by any stretch. I’d hate to know what I make on an hourly basis. But I don’t know because it’s not one of the measures I use for gauging whether this is succeeding. I measure myself by my performance in the kitchen —things like punctuality, product quality, sanitation. I measure customer service by my customers' satisfaction with how I handle their needs. And I measure the bottom line simply by whether or not the bank balance is going up.
He discussed balancing work with other aspects of life. I’m content with how I’ve done there. Mind you, I’m single and childless, so it’s not fair to compare me to him. But I’ve maintained some social life (that was never too big for me), and I’ve continued the long-distance friendships I’ve long been part of.
All told, I’ve never understood why people get into this industry. It’s physically brutal, mentally endless, hard to make decent money, and customer expectations are brutal. On that last one, I’ll note that every industry has its odd customer expectations, but food is one of the oddest I’ve ever noticed. Example: You have a date with your significant other. The restaurant darn well better seat the two of you within minutes of your reservation time. In contrast, the doctor’s office has a waiting room you’re likely to sit in no matter how punctual you are. Another example: Unless something sells out from popularity, food customers usually don’t tolerate things being unavailable. “I’m sorry, there’s no bread for the table because the oven broke” isn’t something you hear, and that’s because customers, and in turn restaurant owners, won’t tolerate it.
The best description I’ve ever heard about restaurant life is that it’s like working in an emergency room but without the life and death. But you can bet anyone worth their salt in a kitchen treats it like like and death. Still, I enjoy what I do and find both the work and customer service rewarding. I don’t blame anyone for trying this industry and fleeing it as fast as possible. And since it sounds like Mr. Ho is doing good work, I certainly hope he’s able to make his business work.
Whatever thing you're selling, it's obviously good, and people like and want it.
I don't know if you care for my advice, but that's what I would start with:
* Website, a very simple one where one can order your stuff, wholesale and small amounts (priced differently). This kind of thing doesn't require any coding these days.
* Automate as much as you can.
* Make sure you learn how much you make per hour, because this will pay for the salary of the person doing what you're doing.
* It sounds like you're close to being maxed out, and your only options are A) Raise prices B) Expand. I would try both.
* When you know how much you can pay, start expanding. Hire people, one at a time.
A quote from a David Sedaris article [1] sums it up nicely through a conversation he had with an entrepreneur who was intending to retire at 55.
> "One burner represents your family, one is your friends, the third is your health, and the fourth is your work." The gist, she said, was that in order to be successful you have to cut off one of your burners. And in order to be really successful you have to cut off two.
This is a really interesting idea. I wonder if there's anyone who's been extremely successful in their work who would object to it.
My instinct is that if you're smart about your time investments, you can get pretty far on most those burners without out a lot of time invested.
For example, for me, health is a non-negotiable. But I can maintain it with only 4-5 hours a week of investment vs. 0 hours if I abandon it. I just have 3 rules: get enough sleep, eat only healthy things, exercise at least once a week.
If you are running your own company and you can't sleep enough, I think you are either not prioritizing it or you're doing something wrong. You're unsustainably stressed or not managing your company's execution well enough. Not enough sleep affects your performance and ability to think as much as your health, so I really don't see any benefit to being chronically sleep deprived.
Eating healthy doesn't take much more time than eating unhealthy. It means buying groceries, and knowing what's open around you that's cheap and healthy (Most Chinese take-out vegetable stir fry is a good option). The groceries come from Amazon Fresh, and mean 2-3 hours more per week cooking than you would if you got fast food.
And exercise takes no more than 2 hours a week. The goal here is not to be athletic, it's just to be healthy.
I think that whatever your main burner is, you can usually maintain the other burners adequately with 4-5 hours per week, and no more unless something unusual is going on.
The key word here is adequate - it's not the main dimension of your success, and you may just be ok at it. But I don't think you need to fail at it in order to succeed at the thing you're focusing on.
And if you can hit adequacy, you still have more than enough time for your main burner. If other burners combined take 15 hours per week, you very likely still have at least 80 hours a week left for your main focus.
The specific numbers I hypothesize here applies only if you don't have kids, which I imagine skews your family number significantly.
A little side question - I love Serious Eats but after their last redesign there is no paging. So you just cannot browse to a certain point in time and then continue from there.
I don't think you are missing anything, but it's interesting how different people have different ways of using the web.
I don't think I've ever wanted a web page to be split into pages, and I've always presumed it's done only to have more spaces for ad placement. I always go out of my way to submit links to a single page version, and although I've sometimes worried this might be depriving the destination site of revenue, I've never really considered that readers might prefer a paginated version.
If I wanted to continue reading something after a pause, I'd leave the page open in a tab (or more commonly, separate window), keeping it scrolled to the position I stopped reading. If I had to reopen it again, I'd scroll quickly through with the trackpad or space bar until I saw something unfamiliar, much in the way that I would visually scan to find my place in a magazine article.
How do you use the pagination to help you continue? By remembering the page number and clicking on it, by bookmarking the link to a specific page, or something else?
Edit to clarify: I agree with 'zipperg' below, and I'm not suggesting that infinite scroll is anything other than a usability nightmare. Instead, I'm expressing my strong preference for true-single page articles such as this one over both pagination and automated loading. Unless I'm the one missing something and this page is autoloading the main content so well that I'm not bothered by it? (I'm less dogmatic about user comments --- hiding them can often be a good thing)
I met Tyson a few weeks ago at Arrogant Swine after the Brooklyn iOS Meetup.
I have to say, from what I saw that night at his restaurant I'm fairly certain he's stumbled upon a formula that is going to work quite well. The place was jam packed, food was delicious and I'm still telling people about the meal and ambiance.
Drove back from Brooklyn last night after celebrating my friend's 40th at Arrogant Swine, and then I wake up to see this on hacker news. Crazy.
This restuarant appears out of nowhere in Bushwick/warehouse district. Being a North Carolina native I was a huge skeptic walking in. Mr. Ho has an NC (and SC) flag on the wall, usually not a symbol of pride outside the state (even for me), but in the case of BBQ it's respectable and makes a statement to anyone who know's anything about pulled-pork BBQ.
If you're ever in Brooklyn, definitely check it out. There's something to be said about eating, drinking, and enjoying the vision of an entrepreneur. Impossible to do with your stereotypcial start-up.
I do miss the NC BBQ. I used to eat at Cooper's in downtown Raleigh -- which is in the process of moving to a new location I hear. A developer bought the block and is putting up a tall building -- no room for a business started in the 1930s there.
The best hushpuppies I ever had though, were at Bubba's in Charlotte. Ralph would make his dough in batches, and if you caught it at the end of the batch, the onions had had time to steep in the batter, and they were so good.
It kills me that restaurants add all the value to the area but lose almost all of it to rent.
I wish I could design a town or something. Big tax break to landlords who house good restaurante long-term or or otherwise allow the restaurant to be profitable. Or maybe the town owns the town center or something.
You can't just wave away economics like that. The problem with restaurants is that they are in a highly crowded and competitive business. If you give them a tax break, they would simply pass the savings onto the consumer.
I really enjoy reading about the trials of entrepreneurs outside The Bubble on HN and this was a great piece of writing. The vignette about the dirt-loving sniper sucked me in.
[+] [-] ezl|11 years ago|reply
There's a reason why big accomplishments always come with effusive thanks to family and friends. It's not just about giving thanks—it's about publicly apologizing to the people who've sacrificed so much so you can realize a dream.
[+] [-] bredman|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] weinzierl|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hoggle|11 years ago|reply
Edit: I enjoyed Peter Thiel's "Competition is For Losers" as it pretty much sums up what is wrong with this industry from a business perspective - http://startupclass.samaltman.com/courses/lec05/
[+] [-] nolok|11 years ago|reply
I agree with you as a general point but I disagree in that you make it about founders.
As a general rule, if you have the chance/education/abilities to do, you should always pick a job where you love what you're doing, whether you're the founder or an important employee or a random grunt in a giant corporation.
You're going to do that for 8h+ hours a day, 5+ days a week for years on end. Make sure you enjoy it.
[+] [-] davidw|11 years ago|reply
Real BBQ is smoking stuff at low temperatures (not too far from 100C) for a long time - briskets can take 12+ hours or longer. So you can't just throw an extra one on when the customer orders, it's basically got to be ready.
I think if I ever had a serious amount of disposable money, I'd open a BBQ joint here in Italy.
[+] [-] dalke|11 years ago|reply
> The reason that chicken is a royal pain in my ass is the execution of the dish in a barbecue setting. Every other barbecue item has a relatively long shelf life—contrary to what some snobs tell you, it doesn't need to be eaten straight from the smoker. At Franklin Barbecue in Austin, Texas, Aaron Franklin takes his brisket out at 3 a.m. to rest while the rest of his menu items cook. The restaurant opens at 11 a.m. and sells out shortly thereafter, which means that brisket you waited on line for hours for has been sitting in a warming box for no fewer than eight hours.
> In a barbecue setting, everything is done and cooked long before you show up. Now chicken? Kept warm, it'll stay nice and juicy for maybe an hour. After that it's all downhill.
It sounds like both #1 and #2.
[+] [-] TheBiv|11 years ago|reply
Method #1 BY FAR produces the most fanfare.
Notable #1 is LA-Barbeque, and Franklin BBQ in Austin and the wait is typically 2-5 hours and all of the BBQ is sold out before lunch.
[+] [-] samsolomon|11 years ago|reply
Additionally, they are only open for sandwiches from 11am until 2pm (or they run out) three days a week. Racks of ribs and pork butts can be ordered a day in advance and picked up Monday through Saturday.
Edit: A write up about the joint. http://dixiedining.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/bama-brisket-tha...
[+] [-] 001sky|11 years ago|reply
Basically like bread. But if you run out, you run out.
[+] [-] nkozyra|11 years ago|reply
You can keep things "warm" without keeping them under lights - a lower heat ( < 100F ) can keep beef and pork plenty moist.
[+] [-] bretthoerner|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NaOH|11 years ago|reply
He’s had much more attention than I’ve had. I’m not certain what he did to garner it, but I’ve worked hard to fly under the radar. From following the tech industry (and others) for many years, I’ve made it a point to not grow too fast, to avoid taking on more than is possible, physically or economically. I’d rather under-promise and then over-deliver. Or, as is often discussed in places like HN, I want to manage customers’ expectations.
One result is that I’ve done no marketing beyond some occasional use of Twitter. I don’t even have a website yet. In fact, I haven’t solicited one customer. Speaking to one person in food retail led to that person carrying my products when I launched, and every customer since has come by word of mouth. Since I only wholesale, my customers are not the people ultimately buying my products for consumption. So I do everything to keep my customers happy, word gradually spreads about my products, and other retailers find their way to me.
Still, I can understand the tight economics Mr. Ho describes. I was profitable within weeks of launching, but I’m not rolling in money by any stretch. I’d hate to know what I make on an hourly basis. But I don’t know because it’s not one of the measures I use for gauging whether this is succeeding. I measure myself by my performance in the kitchen —things like punctuality, product quality, sanitation. I measure customer service by my customers' satisfaction with how I handle their needs. And I measure the bottom line simply by whether or not the bank balance is going up.
He discussed balancing work with other aspects of life. I’m content with how I’ve done there. Mind you, I’m single and childless, so it’s not fair to compare me to him. But I’ve maintained some social life (that was never too big for me), and I’ve continued the long-distance friendships I’ve long been part of.
All told, I’ve never understood why people get into this industry. It’s physically brutal, mentally endless, hard to make decent money, and customer expectations are brutal. On that last one, I’ll note that every industry has its odd customer expectations, but food is one of the oddest I’ve ever noticed. Example: You have a date with your significant other. The restaurant darn well better seat the two of you within minutes of your reservation time. In contrast, the doctor’s office has a waiting room you’re likely to sit in no matter how punctual you are. Another example: Unless something sells out from popularity, food customers usually don’t tolerate things being unavailable. “I’m sorry, there’s no bread for the table because the oven broke” isn’t something you hear, and that’s because customers, and in turn restaurant owners, won’t tolerate it.
The best description I’ve ever heard about restaurant life is that it’s like working in an emergency room but without the life and death. But you can bet anyone worth their salt in a kitchen treats it like like and death. Still, I enjoy what I do and find both the work and customer service rewarding. I don’t blame anyone for trying this industry and fleeing it as fast as possible. And since it sounds like Mr. Ho is doing good work, I certainly hope he’s able to make his business work.
[+] [-] imaginenore|11 years ago|reply
Whatever thing you're selling, it's obviously good, and people like and want it.
I don't know if you care for my advice, but that's what I would start with:
* Website, a very simple one where one can order your stuff, wholesale and small amounts (priced differently). This kind of thing doesn't require any coding these days.
* Automate as much as you can.
* Make sure you learn how much you make per hour, because this will pay for the salary of the person doing what you're doing.
* It sounds like you're close to being maxed out, and your only options are A) Raise prices B) Expand. I would try both.
* When you know how much you can pay, start expanding. Hire people, one at a time.
[+] [-] huhtenberg|11 years ago|reply
> I’ve continued the long-distance friendships I’ve long been part of.
WoW? :)
[+] [-] joshu|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevewillows|11 years ago|reply
> "One burner represents your family, one is your friends, the third is your health, and the fourth is your work." The gist, she said, was that in order to be successful you have to cut off one of your burners. And in order to be really successful you have to cut off two.
[1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/24/laugh-kookaburr...
[+] [-] yoshizar|11 years ago|reply
My instinct is that if you're smart about your time investments, you can get pretty far on most those burners without out a lot of time invested.
For example, for me, health is a non-negotiable. But I can maintain it with only 4-5 hours a week of investment vs. 0 hours if I abandon it. I just have 3 rules: get enough sleep, eat only healthy things, exercise at least once a week.
If you are running your own company and you can't sleep enough, I think you are either not prioritizing it or you're doing something wrong. You're unsustainably stressed or not managing your company's execution well enough. Not enough sleep affects your performance and ability to think as much as your health, so I really don't see any benefit to being chronically sleep deprived.
Eating healthy doesn't take much more time than eating unhealthy. It means buying groceries, and knowing what's open around you that's cheap and healthy (Most Chinese take-out vegetable stir fry is a good option). The groceries come from Amazon Fresh, and mean 2-3 hours more per week cooking than you would if you got fast food.
And exercise takes no more than 2 hours a week. The goal here is not to be athletic, it's just to be healthy.
I think that whatever your main burner is, you can usually maintain the other burners adequately with 4-5 hours per week, and no more unless something unusual is going on.
The key word here is adequate - it's not the main dimension of your success, and you may just be ok at it. But I don't think you need to fail at it in order to succeed at the thing you're focusing on.
And if you can hit adequacy, you still have more than enough time for your main burner. If other burners combined take 15 hours per week, you very likely still have at least 80 hours a week left for your main focus.
The specific numbers I hypothesize here applies only if you don't have kids, which I imagine skews your family number significantly.
[+] [-] venomsnake|11 years ago|reply
Am I missing something obvious?
[+] [-] nkurz|11 years ago|reply
I don't think I've ever wanted a web page to be split into pages, and I've always presumed it's done only to have more spaces for ad placement. I always go out of my way to submit links to a single page version, and although I've sometimes worried this might be depriving the destination site of revenue, I've never really considered that readers might prefer a paginated version.
If I wanted to continue reading something after a pause, I'd leave the page open in a tab (or more commonly, separate window), keeping it scrolled to the position I stopped reading. If I had to reopen it again, I'd scroll quickly through with the trackpad or space bar until I saw something unfamiliar, much in the way that I would visually scan to find my place in a magazine article.
How do you use the pagination to help you continue? By remembering the page number and clicking on it, by bookmarking the link to a specific page, or something else?
Edit to clarify: I agree with 'zipperg' below, and I'm not suggesting that infinite scroll is anything other than a usability nightmare. Instead, I'm expressing my strong preference for true-single page articles such as this one over both pagination and automated loading. Unless I'm the one missing something and this page is autoloading the main content so well that I'm not bothered by it? (I'm less dogmatic about user comments --- hiding them can often be a good thing)
[+] [-] gozmike|11 years ago|reply
I have to say, from what I saw that night at his restaurant I'm fairly certain he's stumbled upon a formula that is going to work quite well. The place was jam packed, food was delicious and I'm still telling people about the meal and ambiance.
If you're in NYC, definitely go check it out.
[+] [-] abbott|11 years ago|reply
This restuarant appears out of nowhere in Bushwick/warehouse district. Being a North Carolina native I was a huge skeptic walking in. Mr. Ho has an NC (and SC) flag on the wall, usually not a symbol of pride outside the state (even for me), but in the case of BBQ it's respectable and makes a statement to anyone who know's anything about pulled-pork BBQ.
If you're ever in Brooklyn, definitely check it out. There's something to be said about eating, drinking, and enjoying the vision of an entrepreneur. Impossible to do with your stereotypcial start-up.
[+] [-] chiph|11 years ago|reply
The best hushpuppies I ever had though, were at Bubba's in Charlotte. Ralph would make his dough in batches, and if you caught it at the end of the batch, the onions had had time to steep in the batter, and they were so good.
[+] [-] zachwill|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SixSigma|11 years ago|reply
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/big-baby-boom-supe...
[+] [-] joshu|11 years ago|reply
I wish I could design a town or something. Big tax break to landlords who house good restaurante long-term or or otherwise allow the restaurant to be profitable. Or maybe the town owns the town center or something.
[+] [-] gizmo686|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] waterlesscloud|11 years ago|reply
Yeah, maybe not practical in SF, but elsewhere it works well.
[+] [-] eriktrautman|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kmttechnical|11 years ago|reply
Angie
[+] [-] kevinqi|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]