I somehow got in to hiking and camping sometime after college. While my family traveled a good amount, it was never to hike or camp or to remote areas.
On my first camping trip in the White Mountains in NH on the 3rd or 4th night I looked up and saw the Milky Way. I was blown away. At this point in my life I was an adult, with responsibilities, a healthy interest in science, and I never really put much thought in to it and I guess figured that whenever I saw starry night pictures that included the Milky Way that it was through a telescope, or an artists rendition, or something. Definitely not that you could actually see the Milky Way with your own eyes. To be honest it's insane. If you haven't seen the Milky Way with your own eyes, go.
I don't want to be too much of a killjoy, but I never understood what was all that fuss about stars.
Maybe that's because I've had the reverse experience: I grew up in a place seeing a large amount of stars, where seeing the Milky Way was just expected, and then I moved to larger cities where you can barely see the brightest stars.
Well, even though it sure is nice to see the stars when I happen to be in a darker place, I never really missed them at any point. They're a nice feature of the environment, but not something really critical, just like the bird chirps. They're nice to hear on the morning, but you barely notice when they aren't there. When I'm in a city I'm more concerned about the wasted energy revealed by light pollution, and the annoying sound of roaring cars at most hours.
Experienced something similarly mind-blowing. Coming from foggy Northern Germany, I travelled to the east coast of Australia and went up the coast on a sailing boat. The night sky was so immense that I never really slept inside, instead always tried to find a place outside to spent the night watching the milky way in all its glory. Breathtaking. Every couple of minutes a falling star shot by, sometimes exploding, sometimes fizzling out. It's been more than fifteen years now and I can still clearly remember this experience and the emotions it created.
Now that this comes back, I need to go back up a mountain, leave civilization, as soon as possible.
My brother lives about 10 miles outside Flagstaff Arizona. Flagstaff has anti-light pollution laws due to the observatory there, so all the lighting in town is shielded and directed all downward. Ten miles away on the other side of mountain it's very dark indeed. Add in the elevation at 7000 feet, and the often exceptionally clear skies and there's an overwhelming amount of stars to see.
The Milky Way is so bright it always takes me time to realize that's what it actually is. And even though I'm familiar enough with constellations to use them as a sort of clock at home, I struggle to find the stars I know when I'm visiting him. There's just so many more!
The view from Mt. Everest base-camp (17,000ft) is outrageous! I have never seen anything like it and would recommend it to anyone (although I'd recommend going to Nepal and Tibet for lots of other reasons too).
I had a similar experience. I grew up in the country and always took the clear sky sans light pollution for granted. I lived in the city for a few years for college and then work and then came back to the country to visit old friends. I was driving back to my parents old place one night and stopped and got out of my car in the middle of nowhere. I looked up and was blown away.
I had the same experience while on a trip out near Uluru some years ago. Camping out in the middle of nowhere, looked up and.... wow. Never seen anything like it, and at this point in my life I conceivably won't again.
It's worth pointing out that light pollution doesn't mean you can't enjoy the stars. After 20 years living in cities and forgetting much of the sky I loved as a country child, I moved from the heart of Manhattan - a 'white' area in this map (http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html) - to a suburb half an hour away which is colored red.
In the city, I could see Jupiter clearly, and three moons through an ordinary pair of 12x36 binoculars from my 19th floor apartment window. With a very tired $40 yard sale 4" Newtonian refractor I could see bands on the planet on a winter's night. With the naked eye, the Summer Triangle, Capella, Sirius, and a few other very bright stars. None of it all that impressive from a quick glance upwards, but still stuff there to study with conscious effort.
Out in my new back yard, the view is breathtaking by comparison. On a very clear night with dark-adapted eyes there is just the hint of the Milky Way. On a normal night, the Pleiades are clear. The Andromeda galaxy is lovely through binoculars. But the real treat is the constellations - gorgeous and vivid, separated, teachable to my children.
I've been up Mauna Kea and nothing on earth can compare to that, but as an everyday treat, a bit of mythological theatre wheeling in the sky on a dark night, or even an evening's worth of nebula hunting, I'm blown away by my heavily light polluted back garden.
The light pollution map isn't very good and it doesn't give the full picture. We do astroimaging in the middle of a very bright area, but we are on a hill. A little elevation goes a long way. It also helps that our scopes are in an enclosure which blocks lights from the sides. We can occassionally see the Milky Way on clearer nights.
At my new house on a hill, you can see a huge difference being on the deck versus being down (about 50 feet) in the back yard.
People who are really interested in doing some viewing should check out local astronomy organizations. They will host star parties and will know the best places locally to do observations.
Light pollution only has an impact on observing "faint fuzzies" - galaxies, nebulae, and other objects that are, well, faint and distant. It has essentially no impact on bright things such as almost anything within the Solar System, most of the nearby stars, some star clusters, etc.
The other big problem for astronomy, seeing (or air turbulence) is exactly backwards. It's the main enemy of seeing planets or other high resolution targets, but it has no impact on faint fuzzies, because your eye can't see much detail on those anyway.
This is why from my backyard, in one of the most light-polluted places on Earth, I can observe planets just fine. However, nebulae, or even the outline of the Milky Way, are difficult or impossible to see.
Living in the city, light pollution drives me a little bit crazy. I don't understand why so many people seem to be OK with losing our ability to see the stars... It also implies squandered electricity (and money).
When I stayed with my mom for a week in NYC, I was shocked by how bright the sky at night was. Literally it glowed orange. I felt like I was in the D'ni caverns from Myst, and it really wore on me. My best guess is that one just stops looking up after a while. Or, as a sibling comment notes, you look down at the city as your new sky.
Cities can take on a sort of self-importance, an introspective ego, anyhow, since there's so much available that you can be permanently distracted from looking outward or upward. Can't say it wasn't a fun place, but it's not my cuppa joe. But I could easily imagine a [native?] city dweller feeling like they're not missing anything.
[EDIT: I guess I just figure some people live in the city because it gives them everything they need. But it certainly made me feel like I lost my sky. I'd be curious to know if you grew up in the city; so far, it seems like that feeling of loss or wrongness is just for people who grew up outside them.]
I grew up in a very small town and I used to sit very long periods under the stars doing nothing. It was kind of meditation. I moved to the city when I went to uni and started missing it more and more; you hardly could see anything there and it didn't give me the same rest sitting outside. A while ago I looked for a new place to live after the city and I picked that place specifically based on viewing stars as one of the highest priorities on my list. I live in a village deep in the mountains; there is no light in the village at night, there are no cities nearby and the rest is shielded by the mountains. If you have never seen something like this you definitely are missing something worthwhile and yes, I can see the milky way, almost every night.
> I don't understand why so many people seem to be OK with losing our ability to see the stars
Honest question: why shouldn't they be okay with it?
I was a Boy Scout and I saw the stars at night during camp outs. I've seen the night's sky from the middle of the New Mexico desert. It was very pretty, but I've seen it.
It's not that I don't have a sense of wonder. Heck, I'm a post-doctoral researcher in physics and I've been trying to teach myself cosmology as a hobby. Yet, from my perspective, being able to see the stars every night like being able to see Niagara Falls every night. It's something that you should certainly do once and I don't begrudge those who want it part of their daily life, but I don't think that it needs to be the default option.
You seem to disagree, so I'm wondering what it is that I'm missing.
Are the color pictures over exposed? I have seen the Milky Way lots of times (and quite clearly), but it always looked more like an almost gray cloud... I've never seen the kind of bright colors that are usually shown on pictures.
These pictures usually get taken at 15-30 secs with a very fast lens (f2.8) and an ISO of 1600-6400. You need a pretty dark sky or a lot of post processing. Within 50-100 miles of
the background is just brown.
If you have a camera with manual control, give it a try. You need a wide angle lens, otherwise you'll get star trails quickly.
If the author is referring to the galactic center being in view, then wouldn't that depend on whether it's summer in the northern hemisphere, or the southern hemisphere? After all, each hemisphere's summer is looking the opposite direction.
If the author is simply referring to the season, well I'd think the winter - having longer nights, colder atmosphere, and, at some latitudes, having nights period - would lead to darker skies and better viewing.
The data hasn't been updated since 2006 but the change should not be that much different. I've contacted the author in the past, for some technical explanation:
The NOAA data is the light source data. It uses the light source data as input to a model of light propagation in the atmosphere to estimate the light pollution.
This takes into account that the light pollution from a town or city (or natural gas field!) can affect the level of light pollution at locations far removed from the light source.
Technically, my light pollution atlas is the amount of artificial sky brightness at zenith.
The site features also an overlay on Google Maps which shows the light pollution. It's a nice tool to find night photo spots. The one I've been using for some time with great results: http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html
What I don't like with these shots is that they show an unrealistic picture of what the milky way would look like - the human eye can't detect colour like that. They are beautiful shots but if your intention is to show what it's like if the lights were out, its misleading.
And actually, wouldn't nearly _everything_ you see be the Milky Way galaxy? That's not the point of the site, but struck me just now. I had the same experience you did, while backpacking in New Mexico. The sky was outrageous - I had never seen the whole of the structure.
Sorry to sound silly, but I've only seen real milky way in Americas, but never in Asia. It's a common knowledge to me that you can see it, but it doesn't quite match the reality for me.
Where the text discusses the origin of the term "Milky Way", I wish they would give the Greek name γαλαξίας κύκλος (at least in transliteration) rather than only giving the translation 'milky circle'. (The text does give the original Latin "via lactea").
I remember when the term γαλαξία was referenced in an amazing conlang puzzle which led to a series of events culminating in my awareness that γαλαξίας is ancient Greek for 'galaxy' (sort of), whereas γαλαξία is ancient Greek for 'milkshake' (sort of).
The server error on this page is a great example of how to build negative brand recognition. Hint to hosting companies: your error pages aren't a good place from which to link to your sign up page.
Just came back from a remote location in Cuba. Go out on a clear night, look at the sky for about 2-5 minutes to get your eyes adjusted, and enjoy the density of the milky way before you.
If you live in the Bay Area (South or East Bay), an easy to reach Dark Sky location is Henry Coe State Park near Gilroy. Doing an overnight camping there is incredible. You can spent all night gazing at the Milky Way. It was really amazing seeing the Milky Way again since my younger days. Try to choose a night that is close to a new/no moon night.
For those of you in the Bay Area that want to come out to the sticks a little bit, SVAS (Sacramento Valley Astronomical Society) has a pretty nice observing site in the Sierras. (check web site, contact somebody to get in as a guest) Midnight in August provides a very nice view of the Milky Way.
Andromeda looks pretty good (bright) through some of the large scopes that people bring up there, as well. (magnification is fairly trivial, you need a large telescope to get brightness)
Looking at the light pollution map [1]. There is a band of light between San Antonio and Corpus Christi that does not follow the cities/roads where you would except to see light.
I saw the same thing. I've looked at the "earth lights" pictures for years, and you can pick out cities and the basic highway grid ... so those cloudy patches in North Dakota and southwestern Texas stand out.
He he, those cloudy patches are what keeps OPEC up at night.
I've always wondered this but have never had it answered. If we're in the Milky Way, isn't it safe to assume that 95% of the stars we can easily see are part of the Milky Way.
Basically, how can you NOT see the Milky Way, assuming you don't have some sort of ridiculous light pollution blocking all visibility?
I'm confused how exactly the dates were chosen in the section "Where can i see the Milky Way Galaxy from Earth?" They don't appear correlated to the moon phases calendar.
[+] [-] djb_hackernews|11 years ago|reply
I somehow got in to hiking and camping sometime after college. While my family traveled a good amount, it was never to hike or camp or to remote areas.
On my first camping trip in the White Mountains in NH on the 3rd or 4th night I looked up and saw the Milky Way. I was blown away. At this point in my life I was an adult, with responsibilities, a healthy interest in science, and I never really put much thought in to it and I guess figured that whenever I saw starry night pictures that included the Milky Way that it was through a telescope, or an artists rendition, or something. Definitely not that you could actually see the Milky Way with your own eyes. To be honest it's insane. If you haven't seen the Milky Way with your own eyes, go.
[+] [-] seszett|11 years ago|reply
Maybe that's because I've had the reverse experience: I grew up in a place seeing a large amount of stars, where seeing the Milky Way was just expected, and then I moved to larger cities where you can barely see the brightest stars.
Well, even though it sure is nice to see the stars when I happen to be in a darker place, I never really missed them at any point. They're a nice feature of the environment, but not something really critical, just like the bird chirps. They're nice to hear on the morning, but you barely notice when they aren't there. When I'm in a city I'm more concerned about the wasted energy revealed by light pollution, and the annoying sound of roaring cars at most hours.
[+] [-] sveme|11 years ago|reply
Now that this comes back, I need to go back up a mountain, leave civilization, as soon as possible.
[+] [-] waterlesscloud|11 years ago|reply
The Milky Way is so bright it always takes me time to realize that's what it actually is. And even though I'm familiar enough with constellations to use them as a sort of clock at home, I struggle to find the stars I know when I'm visiting him. There's just so many more!
[+] [-] louthy|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crikli|11 years ago|reply
When you're in town, you can't see it. When you're in the backcountry, you can't NOT see it.
[+] [-] Nicholas_C|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sp8|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scrumper|11 years ago|reply
In the city, I could see Jupiter clearly, and three moons through an ordinary pair of 12x36 binoculars from my 19th floor apartment window. With a very tired $40 yard sale 4" Newtonian refractor I could see bands on the planet on a winter's night. With the naked eye, the Summer Triangle, Capella, Sirius, and a few other very bright stars. None of it all that impressive from a quick glance upwards, but still stuff there to study with conscious effort.
Out in my new back yard, the view is breathtaking by comparison. On a very clear night with dark-adapted eyes there is just the hint of the Milky Way. On a normal night, the Pleiades are clear. The Andromeda galaxy is lovely through binoculars. But the real treat is the constellations - gorgeous and vivid, separated, teachable to my children.
I've been up Mauna Kea and nothing on earth can compare to that, but as an everyday treat, a bit of mythological theatre wheeling in the sky on a dark night, or even an evening's worth of nebula hunting, I'm blown away by my heavily light polluted back garden.
[+] [-] cgriswald|11 years ago|reply
At my new house on a hill, you can see a huge difference being on the deck versus being down (about 50 feet) in the back yard.
People who are really interested in doing some viewing should check out local astronomy organizations. They will host star parties and will know the best places locally to do observations.
[+] [-] Florin_Andrei|11 years ago|reply
The other big problem for astronomy, seeing (or air turbulence) is exactly backwards. It's the main enemy of seeing planets or other high resolution targets, but it has no impact on faint fuzzies, because your eye can't see much detail on those anyway.
This is why from my backyard, in one of the most light-polluted places on Earth, I can observe planets just fine. However, nebulae, or even the outline of the Milky Way, are difficult or impossible to see.
(This is related to amateur astronomy.)
[+] [-] ChrisGranger|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HCIdivision17|11 years ago|reply
Cities can take on a sort of self-importance, an introspective ego, anyhow, since there's so much available that you can be permanently distracted from looking outward or upward. Can't say it wasn't a fun place, but it's not my cuppa joe. But I could easily imagine a [native?] city dweller feeling like they're not missing anything.
[EDIT: I guess I just figure some people live in the city because it gives them everything they need. But it certainly made me feel like I lost my sky. I'd be curious to know if you grew up in the city; so far, it seems like that feeling of loss or wrongness is just for people who grew up outside them.]
[+] [-] tluyben2|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mlrtime|11 years ago|reply
Look upon NYC at night time from a tall building, it looks much like looking at another galaxy. I could stare at the city for hours.
[+] [-] rprospero|11 years ago|reply
Honest question: why shouldn't they be okay with it?
I was a Boy Scout and I saw the stars at night during camp outs. I've seen the night's sky from the middle of the New Mexico desert. It was very pretty, but I've seen it.
It's not that I don't have a sense of wonder. Heck, I'm a post-doctoral researcher in physics and I've been trying to teach myself cosmology as a hobby. Yet, from my perspective, being able to see the stars every night like being able to see Niagara Falls every night. It's something that you should certainly do once and I don't begrudge those who want it part of their daily life, but I don't think that it needs to be the default option.
You seem to disagree, so I'm wondering what it is that I'm missing.
[+] [-] daliusd|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dustingetz|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tommyd|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rgawdzik|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theli0nheart|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robertfw|11 years ago|reply
https://www.eff.org/privacybadger
[+] [-] hhm|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxxxxx|11 years ago|reply
If you have a camera with manual control, give it a try. You need a wide angle lens, otherwise you'll get star trails quickly.
[+] [-] semaphoreP|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BrandonMarc|11 years ago|reply
The summer Milky Way will look brighter.
If the author is referring to the galactic center being in view, then wouldn't that depend on whether it's summer in the northern hemisphere, or the southern hemisphere? After all, each hemisphere's summer is looking the opposite direction.
If the author is simply referring to the season, well I'd think the winter - having longer nights, colder atmosphere, and, at some latitudes, having nights period - would lead to darker skies and better viewing.
Can any one enlighten me?
[+] [-] stargazer-3|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flaie|11 years ago|reply
The data hasn't been updated since 2006 but the change should not be that much different. I've contacted the author in the past, for some technical explanation:
The site features also an overlay on Google Maps which shows the light pollution. It's a nice tool to find night photo spots. The one I've been using for some time with great results: http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html[+] [-] sp332|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robertfw|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josu|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cscharenberg|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Inviz|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MiguelVieira|11 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magellanic_Clouds
[+] [-] schoen|11 years ago|reply
Where the text discusses the origin of the term "Milky Way", I wish they would give the Greek name γαλαξίας κύκλος (at least in transliteration) rather than only giving the translation 'milky circle'. (The text does give the original Latin "via lactea").
I remember when the term γαλαξία was referenced in an amazing conlang puzzle which led to a series of events culminating in my awareness that γαλαξίας is ancient Greek for 'galaxy' (sort of), whereas γαλαξία is ancient Greek for 'milkshake' (sort of).
[+] [-] benjamincburns|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mladenkovacevic|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gjkood|11 years ago|reply
You can look up CA dark sky sites here: http://www.observingsites.com/ds_ca.htm
[+] [-] RogerL|11 years ago|reply
http://www.fpoa.net/tips.html
[+] [-] Roboprog|11 years ago|reply
Andromeda looks pretty good (bright) through some of the large scopes that people bring up there, as well. (magnification is fairly trivial, you need a large telescope to get brightness)
[+] [-] maxxxxx|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] z5h|11 years ago|reply
In any case, anyone affected by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 got to see a lot more of the Milky Way. I have never seen it more clearly than during the blackout.
[+] [-] jug6ernaut|11 years ago|reply
Anyone know what this band represents?
[1] http://www.youcanseethemilkyway.com/light-pollution/
[+] [-] BrandonMarc|11 years ago|reply
He he, those cloudy patches are what keeps OPEC up at night.
[+] [-] cjeane|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bjz_|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thieving_magpie|11 years ago|reply
Basically, how can you NOT see the Milky Way, assuming you don't have some sort of ridiculous light pollution blocking all visibility?
[+] [-] semaphoreP|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nogridbag|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxerickson|11 years ago|reply