It always drove me nuts that craigslist's searches didn't have more structure/parameters to them. Big points for not accepting brokers, too.
A few small interaction notes/feature requests:
* why can't I search by square footage?
* need to add lots more parametrized amenities (garden, dogs ok/cats ok, balcony,
central a/c, furnished, etc)
* need to search on brooklyn neighborhoods! park slope != bed-stuy.
* when I click on a map pin, i'd expect to either get a modal dialog with more
info, or to be taken directly to the listing page. Just showing me a single
search result is a little unexpected and not especially useful.
* If I click Browse to go back to search, my last search parameters/results
should be retained
* the chat widget on the community page isn't loading for me (FF 3.5/OSX)
* The "Oct Deals" link is really cool, but doesn't really tell me what I'm
about to see. Also, at the top of the linked-to page, it says September.
* Why a different UI for the amenities search-- add button vs. checkboxes?
PS need a product manager?
PPS: I really need to submit a patch to the HN code to do list formatting
You know, to actually have a feature like search by square footage or some other quantity usable, you would not only have to have that field but train every user to enter that field in the form. And that's not going to happen.
The user will paste in whatever they're written already for the description and put random stuff in the extra fields. Especially when it's a Realtor/broker/etc - they want a listing to include the good stuff but not have to say anything about the bad stuff (including that it's doesn't have XYZ). The Realtor speak that seems to pollute newspapers and craigslist only seems like a disaster to us. In reality, it is a finely tuned system combining communication and non-communication that has arisen over the years.
Craigslist is the victory of "good enough to understand", which is exactly how human natural language works. The continuous Craigslist complaints here are about "it should be up to my ideal" are about not getting that "good enough" is the way that people prefer to communicate - with added ambiguity often being prized by at least one of the communicators - notice how job search ads generally work the same work (the number of Palo Alto locations I've gotten when I've searched for San Francisco on Dice.com isn't any more coincidental than craigslist's disfunction and Dice.com is only paid ads).
Great feedback. Square footage data is a bit too unpopulated for us to feel comfortable allowing that search (same with breaking up Brooklyn, sadly).
Your other points are very valid. The map behavior in the "search map" mode seems to be more popular, so we'll keep that in mind as we revamp browse listings mode.
My first (only) startup was a rental site. RentHop already has more traction than I ever did. At the time I knew little about funding or how startups worked. Heck, I didn't really even know much PHP or CSS, but got a site up and running. With little to no funding, I decided to close up shop, which was sad, because we did have real listings coming in, just not enough revenue to cover costs.
I will say that I learned a LOT about coding, which has helped me on my day job and a lot about startups which will help me enormously, should I do it again.
What would I do differently?
- Try to get more seed money. I was working with about a $100 total. I would go with one like Shotput Ventures in my current Atlanta home, or YC if I could swing living in SV for three months. I could use the funds for stuff like the PR that got them this article. I'd get advice and connections to hopefully get that next round of funding, if I need it.
- Take a city-based approach. I tried to to the whole USA at once. It's a lot of territory to cover.
- Get a technical co-founder. I partnered with someone who had a little real-estate experience, but couldn't help out on the tech side. I personally need someone who could really handle the UI design and make something that looks pretty and is dead-simple to use.
- Pick a better name. Seriously. I'm not even going to tell you the name we picked because it was unmemorable, unpronounceable, difficult to spell, and lacked even a hint of SEO-keyword-mojo.
All those lessons, and the tech skills I picked up will help me greatly If I try this again. You know I wouldn't be here if I wasn't thinking about it. ;-)
If PG is reading, what made you/YC decide to fund yet another rental listing site? I'm kind of surprised to be honest. It's been done and has the biggest competitor out there.
25. A Craigslist competitor. Craiglist is ambivalent about being a business. This is both a strength and a weakness. If you focus on the areas where it's a weakness, you may find there are better ways to solve some of the problems Craigslist solves.
I appreciate what RentHop is doing and I really hope they succeed, but there is going to come a point where ad QA is going to become a concern and then they will really start to feel the pain of building a rental site, especially in NYC.
Strikes me as obvious. Everyone says Craiglist is the triumph of "worse is better," but the fact is that Craigslist is pretty bad. Maybe its competitors just haven't been offering the right kind of better.
They're still missing a huge opportunity: RentHop actually ranks better on Google for less targeted searches. For example:
Search Query Ranking
new york no fee listings 26
nyc apartment search 30
new york apartment map 14
east village apartments 69
west village no fee listings 53
apartments in chelsea not in top 200
You can be pretty sure that someone who looks for "apartments in New York" is less ready to buy than someone who looks for no-fee listings in the West Village.
Part of the problem is that the search page is dynamically generated; neighborhood-specific landing pages would help capture those more targeted queries.
> Part of the problem is that the search page is dynamically generated; neighborhood-specific landing pages would help capture those more targeted queries.
Yes, yes and yes. SEO matters for almost every site, but it is a really big deal for this kind of site. I tweaked the internal SEO of my site to highlight and description (One Bedroom Apartment in Newark, New Jersey) of the listing and it paid off for those "long tail" searches.
The manhattan neighborhoods need to be broken up more, I immediately noticed these missing soho, lower east side, chinatown, nolita, greenwich village, and hells kitchen.
Interesting feedback. Did you try the "search map" mode?
We've struggled with a good middle ground between having all the different sub-neighborhoods vs. simply allowing people to go to where they want to live by browsing on a map.
Agreed, I went to find a nice apartment in Toronto and realized that it only caters to New Yorkers. Craigslist allows me to find almost anything ANYWHERE.
How does RentHop ensure that they get their half-month rent from the landlord? i.e. how do they make sure that they know if they successfully connected a renter and a landlord to sign a lease?
I would really like to see some serious craigslist competitors. There are basic things that craigslist refuses to allow users to do, like keep a list of things they're interested in.
[+] [-] joshwa|16 years ago|reply
A few small interaction notes/feature requests:
PS need a product manager?PPS: I really need to submit a patch to the HN code to do list formatting
[+] [-] joe_the_user|16 years ago|reply
The user will paste in whatever they're written already for the description and put random stuff in the extra fields. Especially when it's a Realtor/broker/etc - they want a listing to include the good stuff but not have to say anything about the bad stuff (including that it's doesn't have XYZ). The Realtor speak that seems to pollute newspapers and craigslist only seems like a disaster to us. In reality, it is a finely tuned system combining communication and non-communication that has arisen over the years.
Craigslist is the victory of "good enough to understand", which is exactly how human natural language works. The continuous Craigslist complaints here are about "it should be up to my ideal" are about not getting that "good enough" is the way that people prefer to communicate - with added ambiguity often being prized by at least one of the communicators - notice how job search ads generally work the same work (the number of Palo Alto locations I've gotten when I've searched for San Francisco on Dice.com isn't any more coincidental than craigslist's disfunction and Dice.com is only paid ads).
[+] [-] leelin|16 years ago|reply
Your other points are very valid. The map behavior in the "search map" mode seems to be more popular, so we'll keep that in mind as we revamp browse listings mode.
[+] [-] windsurfer|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coglethorpe|16 years ago|reply
I will say that I learned a LOT about coding, which has helped me on my day job and a lot about startups which will help me enormously, should I do it again.
What would I do differently?
- Try to get more seed money. I was working with about a $100 total. I would go with one like Shotput Ventures in my current Atlanta home, or YC if I could swing living in SV for three months. I could use the funds for stuff like the PR that got them this article. I'd get advice and connections to hopefully get that next round of funding, if I need it.
- Take a city-based approach. I tried to to the whole USA at once. It's a lot of territory to cover.
- Get a technical co-founder. I partnered with someone who had a little real-estate experience, but couldn't help out on the tech side. I personally need someone who could really handle the UI design and make something that looks pretty and is dead-simple to use.
- Pick a better name. Seriously. I'm not even going to tell you the name we picked because it was unmemorable, unpronounceable, difficult to spell, and lacked even a hint of SEO-keyword-mojo.
All those lessons, and the tech skills I picked up will help me greatly If I try this again. You know I wouldn't be here if I wasn't thinking about it. ;-)
If PG is reading, what made you/YC decide to fund yet another rental listing site? I'm kind of surprised to be honest. It's been done and has the biggest competitor out there.
[+] [-] ordinaryman|16 years ago|reply
The following is item #25 from http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html
25. A Craigslist competitor. Craiglist is ambivalent about being a business. This is both a strength and a weakness. If you focus on the areas where it's a weakness, you may find there are better ways to solve some of the problems Craigslist solves.
[+] [-] look_lookatme|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iron_ball|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] byrneseyeview|16 years ago|reply
Part of the problem is that the search page is dynamically generated; neighborhood-specific landing pages would help capture those more targeted queries.
[+] [-] coglethorpe|16 years ago|reply
Yes, yes and yes. SEO matters for almost every site, but it is a really big deal for this kind of site. I tweaked the internal SEO of my site to highlight and description (One Bedroom Apartment in Newark, New Jersey) of the listing and it paid off for those "long tail" searches.
[+] [-] databus|16 years ago|reply
Anyone know how you would enforce this? Seems like it would be easy for landlords/renters to circumvent the charging process.
[+] [-] bk|16 years ago|reply
I've thought about similar businesses, and avoiding being cut out always seems like a hard-to-solve problem.
I would really appreciate if you guys could give an explanation without me having to rent a place to test-drive the process. :)
[+] [-] ryanfitz|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leelin|16 years ago|reply
We've struggled with a good middle ground between having all the different sub-neighborhoods vs. simply allowing people to go to where they want to live by browsing on a map.
[+] [-] weeksie|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drp|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coglethorpe|16 years ago|reply
Initially, those are the competitors for sure. But They are already on the first page for the query you listed, so they've go that going for them.
[+] [-] runinit|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fjabre|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bravura|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] awt|16 years ago|reply