[someone903209]

Weed (because it has no real downsides to me personally) and once-a-year DXM (for depersonalisation) were mildly effective, but the clincher has been learning about buddhism / the tao. I'm not talking about any kind of spiritual practice, but moreso a change in perspective that simply isn't expressed by anyone around me. Doing the unambiguously right thing in the best way in any circumstance with no effort or conscious thought is powerful. I started with the question "How do I talk to people correctly?" and found "right speech" and went from there. Nearly two years later I can say it's been transformational at lowering the anxiety that I once had. Automatic negative thoughts happen infrequently instead of constantly. Though, this is not setting me up to be rich and with lots of worldly possessions or friends, but I'm alright with that.

edit: disappointing that all of the replies are about the first word in this post, but I kind of asked for it. Talk about whatever you want to talk about.

[DanBC]

> Weed (because it has no real downsides)

Cannabis can for some users have severe downsides. We don't necessarily know in advance which those users are. People who have a diagnosed severe mental illness are probably in that group. Thus, is someone with strong anxiety a person who should avoid cannabis because it would exacerbate their anxiety; or trigger an underlying psychosis? Or are they a person who would benefit from canabis?

I am strongly in favour of legalising cannabis but I find it frustrating when people claim it has no downsides.

[someone903209]

I'm speaking from personal anecdotes only. The only downside to me is that it suppresses REM sleep, leading to dreamless sleep. This is kind of boring. It's also more difficult to learn something for the first time while high. Don't go to a poker game high and try to learn the game, for example. Psychosis? Not a factor for me, so I'm not attempting to say one thing about it. Extrinsically, there's all of the legal/job related annoyances in additional to dealing with losers who won't do anything without it.

[proksoup]

It doesn't cause schizophrenia, it causes willingness to be vocal about schizophrenia.

It's actually a useful tool for that, assuming the person isn't an insanely negative environment where they lock them up after they become vocal.

[throwaway1]

> (because it has no real downsides)

Ohhh boy. On this throwaway to say otherwise. I'm sorry if this post is a bit incoherent because I'm horribly tired, still getting past the nuts insomnia phase of quitting.

I've smoked a lot of weed. Started smoking in high school, heavily when I was 19 until a couple weeks ago (I'm 26 now). About an ounce a month over that time, sometimes two ounces. First it was for insomnia, then it was supposedly for my digestive health (actually, quitting gives you gas and loose stool), then for anxiety, sometimes for aches and pains (which were made worse because of poor posture -- it is a muscle relaxant, after all). At the end it was for my paranoia, so to speak -- I was convinced I had cancer setting into my guts and that it was the weed that was keeping it in remission. They did some experiment where this worked with rats, right?

Right now it seems like there are no side effects. Trust me, there will be. Your memory will turn to shit and you won't be able to follow a conversation. You will try to remember a number and forget it moments later. You'll be slow to recall your own zip code. This doesn't just happen when you're high, it'll happen the day after smoking also. Basically, if you're feeling "all right," you'll have these effects too.

You'll become dull. You'll sit around with peers and have nothing to talk about, just a stupid smile. Now, you'll feel totally at peace, but you're a basically a human blob, incapable of really interesting thought.

Your thoughts themselves will become lazy, less rigorous. You'll think you're being "chill" when you quit a debate, but really, your mind is just working much slower.

You'll edit code pointlessly, shuffling stuff around.

It's not all bad -- the ability to come up with really funny insights doesn't go away, so you can make people laugh. But there's no depth to anything you do.

Heavy smoking makes you shiftless too, and easy to abuse. It let me stay in an abusive marriage for a few years, fun (I sort of knew this but was too embarrassed to leave this woman I'd just married, so I smoked more to keep my sanity). Only when I tried to slow down smoking for a little while did I realize how bad things had gotten. Whether or not you believe it's happening, people will try to take advantage of you, if you're worth taking advantage of.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about "smoking every now and then when I feel bad," I'm talking about daily use: A smoke in the bathroom before you shower for work and constant smoking every night. Lunch break smoke if you're a real go-getter. Maybe smoking on your commute. Always making sure you have a good bit of bud or hash oil before you go on a trip anywhere (I remember smoking in a company's garage in SF after a tech meetup, and also regularly taking smoke breaks in my employer's garage in a less tolerant state).

In this industry, people will let you get away with it if you're any good, because the fact is that a half-baked person who can still write decent, reliable code is 10x as valuable as an regular guy with no skill/aptitude/motivation. And as you might have noticed, most people don't take to this stuff all that well, which is why (compared to other working schlubs) we get paid pretty well.

Also, YMMV, but it completely robbed me of my sex life when sober because I'd orgasm so fast.

It took several years of heavy, daily smoking for these serious symptoms to fully manifest into what seemed an indomitable form, probably when I was 24-25. I know for sure that heavy daily smoking of high-grade buds in California took it to the next level.

I had to stop smoking. I realized how stupid I'd become, even if I was raking in the dollars (not doing consultant BS either, senior developer stuff at a good tech company and respected by my peers).

Holy crap, I'd forgotten how smart I was. Suddenly I could remember everything. Issue numbers. My train number. Dates, times, places. I could remember things (addresses and stuff) I learned when stoned, knowledge I didn't know was in my head. Weird!

Now I can't imagine smoking again, except rarely with friends. Having my brain back is so wonderful. Feel free to ask my questions, though I probably covered the uninteresting life of a stoner programmer pretty well here.

[catchaway1]

I have a question for you actually. I have noticed things very similar to what you talk about after a few years of regular smoking. I started at 19 and I'm 21 now (edit, 22, forgot my own age). I used to evangelize marijuana since it has no overt medical side effects, but I think I'm coming to realize what you are talking about -- it kinda does make you stupid, like my Mom warned me about years ago. And not just when you're high, either.

I try to mitigate the negative effects by alternating -- a month of daily smoking, then a month off. If I have any in the house, I can't help myself, so I moderate the quantities I buy.

But, I have started to have episodes around things like locked doors. Did I lock the door -- or even close it? It's like I can't trust my previous decision and I have to go check again. Sometimes I will check a door five times in an hour. It's basically neurotic. If I don't check, I feel very nervous. I think this might be related to marijuana since it seems to fall into the category of absentminded behavior. It's like I am not present in reality enough to have faith in my past decisions.

I definitely don't feel stupid, but I do feel unfocused -- you could say my thoughts are accurate but not very precise. Or put in other terms, I feel like my of my intellectual powers are locked up because it feels to difficult to think about hard things.

Anyway, I was wondering how long you feel like it took you to "get smart again", as it were. Should a month be long enough to return to a baseline state of mind? Or should I try a multiple month T break to see if it has a big impact? (If it did, I would quit).

[someone903209]

You're dropping real facts, no one should argue against these very real risks, and I do know people to whom this is absolutely accurate. I can see this playing out, which is why I don't follow through with it. Myself, I haven't smoked in over a month, because I can take it or leave it. I've worked with the "smoke before-work, at-lunch, after-work" types. I've been interviewed by people who later smoked with me, because everyone does it. It makes you delusional, it makes you lazy, true, true. I've git clone'd code and then edited code formatting pointlessly, just like you. And yet, still better than most of them, somehow. Just walk through the door and, if you can, leave the door behind.

[silentfish]

Funny. Your weed-smoking stage of life describes current me to a dot. Except I don't smoke. :(