These are notoriously inaccurate. To get accurate decibel readings, the mic must be calibrated to absolute known levels (something your App can't do). The App's are basically just comparing relative sounds (this sound is more prominent than this other one, and therefore must be louder... after establishing some relative baseline). Real decibel measuring equipment is very expensive and requires re-calibration routinely. So, measuring 80db could easily be in a swing of +/- 10db's (or more).
> 150dB: Jet take-off at 25 meters (eardrum rupture)
That's not quite accurate. Long term exposure could lead to damage over time, but for comparison a shotgun is typically measured at 165db when it's up against your shoulder and face. Yes, you wear hearing protection (nick-named "ears" if you are a frequent shooter) but your eardrumps aren't rupturing immediately if you take them off.
> What shocked me was the volume of the PA system
Yes, it's loud -- by design. The PA system is not there just to provide something to listen to in case you are bored. In a best case scenario, it's there for the usual "buckle-up" talk and for the pilot to give a greeting. In the worst case scenario, it's there for emergency instructions (a time when panic and passenger noises are likely to get quite loud on their own).
Is a db meter on an iPhone really inaccurate? This recent article from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health suggests otherwise:
> for A-weighted sound level measurements three apps had mean differences within ± 2dBA of the reference measurements. For un-weighted sound level measurements three apps had mean differences within the ± 2 dB of the reference measurement. Since national standards and occupational guidelines specify that type 2 sound measurement instruments have an accuracy of ± 2dBA, some of the above-mentioned apps could potentially be used in the occupational setting
Probably worth noting that shooting without "ears" can still leave you basically unable to hear anything for a good while depending on the firearm, shooting environment, etc. It's not an instant ear-bleeding rupture but it's still VERY loud and will cause significant hearing loss with little repetition.
Side note: I'm always curious how soldiers/SWAT/HRT/etc. are able to hold normal volume conversations. If they're wearing ear-protection, how do they listen for potential threats and assailants? If not, how do they not shout all day long every day?
I often take issue with the "pilot greeting". Many pilots just ramble on and on. Often on and off throughout the entire flight. I really don't care nor do I want that blaring in my ears. I don't understand why airlines think this is a good idea.
The PA system is not there just to provide something to listen to in case you are bored.
Yeah, but there's no reason for the people operating the PA to blast our ears for mundane drivel. I was on a flight last weekend where, because I was right next to a speaker, I had to cover my ears for 5 minutes while the flight attendant droned on about non-emergency stuff. It was so loud it hurt my ears. I already have tinnitus, so I don't need any more hearing loss.
165 db LCpk is a good estimate for the muzzle blast 1 m in front of the barrel of a shotgun. However, outdoors, it's going to be closer to 140-150 measured at the shooter's head. There is a significant asymmetry in how the muzzle blast propagates.
The PA when heard over the headphones (when watching a movie, etc.) is even worse - I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 100dB. Sometimes a movie has quiet audio, or quiet moments requiring you to turn up the volume a lot. More than once I have been painfully ear-raped by the flight attendant PA system in my earphones for this reason.
Just another instance of outrageously bad customer service in the airline industry. I'm convinced at this point that they simply despise their entire customer base.
I've stopped using the in-flight systems because of this. I use in-ear earphones on flights, as the design of them (basically ear plugs with speakers in the middle) blocks out sound and as a result I can have the volume lower, with the idea of preserving what's left of my hearing. Because of that design I not only _can_ have the volume low, but _have_ to have the volume low - and when the PA announcements override the volume to max, it's very loud indeed. On Virgin Atlantic flights, it hits the physical pain threshold, so I've stopped plugging in to these systems entirely and use my phone/iPad/whatever instead.
Then turn the airplane's volume to max and adjust your inline volume to a comfortable level. In my experience, the announcements will then also be at a comfortable level.
I flew several years ago on American Airlines around the time they were promoting the feature-length airline advertisement Up in the Air. [1]
I dozed off with my headphones plugged in, listening to something relaxing on a low volume. Several times I was awakened without warning when they showed the film trailer at full volume. Boy did that piss me off.
This is why some headphones (notably the Bose QC15) have a little hi/lo switch on the connector. When using the in-flight entertainment, set it to "lo" which attenuates all incoming sound. Then you compensate by turning up the entertainment volume.
This works because most aircraft systems deliver PA announcements at a pre-set volume and isn't affected by the entertainment volume.
(The other thing I tend to do is simply disconnect my QC15 during announcements and listen (or not) to the announcement broadcast in the cabin, attenuated by the headphone's noise cancellation.)
Noise-Cancelling headphones with external inputs, by their principle of operation, already have to funnel everything through a DSP. So it would be easy to implement a compressor/limiter for the external input signal. Is this feature available on any of the commercially available headphones?
As an explanation: A compressor/limiter is a device in audio processing used for leveling (compressing) the dynamic range, by making quiet things louder, and making louder things quieter. In the extreme case, one can configure a threshold of (power, loudness, amplitude, depending on the operation of the devices) which cannot be exceeded. [All you sound engineers, please excuse the simplification...]
“Ah, for the days when aviation was a gentlemen’s pursuit. Back before every Joe Sweatsock could wedge himself behind a lunch tray and jet off to Raleigh-Durham.”
– Sideshow Bob
Having seen the airline industry change over the course of 30 years, I simply despise the customer base as well, and fly as infrequently as possible.
I've always wondered why bars crank up the music so high to the extent you're yelling to convey conversation to the person next to you. One of my friends hypothesized that it was done to focus patrons on drinking and not chatter, but socializing is a big part of the bar scene...
Have you ever been in a bar at closing, when they turn the music off and the lights back on? It's a stark moment: Oh, right. This is reality.
I can't say that the sibling comments are wrong, but I don't think that's the real reason. Bars (clubs, really) do it because it fosters a feeling of unreality. It makes being at the bar different, and you feel different, and it's (supposed) to be special - it's a party. People show up because it does not feel like normal life.
Personally, the practice drives me crazy. As I intimated above, bars that do this are really clubs at night. I prefer places where a group of people can sit around a table and actually talk over some drinks.
A very good private party DJ(He plays for artist and actors) told me that if you want people to dance, the volume must be very high.
As it was my party I told him to do it as he saw fit and indeed almost all the people (200) danced.
Then one neighbour complained and he lowered the volume (just for a while ;) ) and most people stopped dancing almost immediately. When he boosted the volume again, they all jumped to dance.
It was amazing.
Edit: Typo.
Reply to the comment below: I understand your comment, but the party was in a former s.XIX coastal battery fortress,(now an environmental Hotel). This fortress is excavated on the stone , below the ground level (You don´t see it till you are literally falling in the ditch). The place where the Party took place was 10 meters below the ground level, behind a fortress wall, a 6m high ditch and 1.5 km away from the nearest buildings, separated by rolling hills and Mediterranean woods.
No, sorry but I certainly was not that worried of the volume and the neighbours.
Relatedly, does anyone know why so many bars with live acts crank the volume up so high that it becomes extremely loud white noise with thumping bass under it? It really sucks if you want to hear the music, and the point at which it's ears-ringing-the-next-day and clothes-vibrating loud but you can still at least tell when a key change happens is usually well under where they set it.
I love small venues, but I hate how bad the music sounds at so many of them. Does anyone actually prefer this?
In England this is part of the "Vertical Drinking Establishment".
You reduce the numbers of chairs and tables. That means that you fit more people in and they have to hold their drinks. Holding a drink means you drink it quicker. They turn up the volume so you chat less, which also means you drink faster.
They do it on purpose. The less patrons talk to each other the more alcohol they drink. That's why the music volume is increased as the night progresses. They get them into the establishment, customers start drinking, eventually it gets to a point where they can't hear each other so they just focus on drinking. Not all places do this, just the places that are strongly focused on the profits.
My personal theory is privacy. With a crashing din of music, your voice carries about 1-2 feet, which makes it easy to ensure only the right person or people hear you talking.
It allows you to be in a social setting while keeping your conversation private.
A different perspective from some of the siblings: it keeps conversations fairly localized and thus a bit private. Beyond a few feet, and even with shouting it will distort and muffle the actual contents of speech in my experience.
It's the same reason most bars are set up to be cramped spaces, it forces people to be closer together which makes people uncomfortable which makes them drink more.
OSHA probably wouldn't have much to say… The peak he measured would only be outside of their guidelines if the attendants screamed for the entire LAS-SFO flight and then he hopped on a plane and immediately flew back with the same treatment.
I agree, there are actually very few government agencies that can be bothered to give even half a fart about anything they are essentially charged with. Between Congressional undermining and bureaucratic incompetence, they are essentially toothless.
I see a lawsuit or a public shame campaign as far more effective. How does "United caused my child to have brain damage due to the loud PA system ... oh, and now he's autistic too"? That should work.
Earplugs! I bought a box of foam earplugs that has supplied me for years now. I cut them in half; half an earplug is the perfect length for unobtrusive everyday wear.
I have quantities of half-earplugs stashed in all my pants pockets, in my car, my work bag, and in a little container on my keychain. I wear them in the car, on planes, at the shooting range, when grinding coffee, and especially when putting away dishes. Fucking clanging-together dishes are the loudest things I encounter in my regular routine.
For my kids I bought silicone putty plugs. They work perfectly for little ears, and I keep them with the foam plugs. My kids know where the big orange jar of earplugs is, and they've acquired some of my discipline.
I have a set of Surefire EP4 silicone ear plugs I use on my motorcycle and at concerts. The nice thing about them is that they have a center plug you can add or remove. Without the center plug they significantly reduce SPLs to safe levels but you can still hear everything. You can put the plug back in when needed.
I also recommend earphones (in ear headphones). They're much like earbuds with foam earplugs. They block out sound about as well as foam earplugs but with the bonus of being able to listen to audio.
I can second the author's conclusion. I fly regularly and have noticed in the last 6 months, PA systems have become much louder than usual on most flights. It's especially bad if you have headphones plugged in to the XM radio -- they don't seem to have separate volume controls for the PA speakers and hardwired headphones.
I've noticed it, too. Also, PA announcements, when heard over headphones, seem to be super-loud regardless of whether you adjust the volume on the headphones. It's as if there is some mandatory minimum volume for the announcements.
I'll hazard a guess--and I might be completely wrong--that there is some sort of legal reason for this. Maybe there have been lawsuits in which people claimed not to have heard the in-flight announcements, and therefore, did not feel not bound to them. I dunno. It just seems as if there's a reason for this. Not necessarily a good reason, but a reason.
Anyhow, this is 100% armchair speculation. It just seems like the sort of thing that could have happened.
Funny coincidence, I am writing this from the airport where I'm in transit. Turkish Airlines does have separate volume for PA and other in-flight purposes.
I've had the opposite experience - PA systems so quiet they're drowned out by the plane's noise. Perhaps he was sitting very close to one of the speakers. Given that the announcements are usually important, not continuous but made in short bursts, and that volume level (99dB) is discomforting but only harmful with prolonged exposure, I don't think it's too loud. The whole idea of an announcement is to get the attention of the passengers - including those who may be asleep. Missing an important announcement may have safety implications.
I can't remember the last time I heard an in-flight announcement that I actually needed to hear. They're far from "usually important." 99% of flights could happily go from start to finish without a single use of the PA, if it were legal to do so, and if the airline could exercise self-control.
The PA system should be reserved for actual important safety-related announcements. It's outrageous that the same system that would be used to tell you to brace for a crash is also used to repeatedly flog credit cards, duty-free sales, and other such nonsense, training everybody to ignore it.
I also use earplugs and over ear noise cancelling headphones during flights. They work very well. I rarely fly United but I've noticed that some airlines are definitely worse than others when it comes to PA.
I haven't used it on flights yet but did some research and splurged on the Faber Acoustical SoundMeter (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/soundmeter/id287615105?mt=8&...). I bought it since I live on a busy road and lots of sirens go by, adding to the general traffic whooshing. Sirens are in the high range and go over 100. Its a good app to have to check whether I'm going crazy or if it is really loud in place where I'm feeling overwhelmed with sound.
I will be sure to try it out next time I fly and provide some data. Maybe we can crowdsource samples of airline loudness.
In SF, waking around, the sirens seem so ridiculously loud. I have a hard time believing that loudness level was derived by research versus just going as high as possible without causing immediate physical damage.
It's a neat problem. You can turn on smartphone microphones and listen for noise levels to measure for noise pollution and law violations, etc. However, you have to develop algorithms that filter our human conversations (for this application linked above), and the privacy implications are astronomical.
Sort of off-topic, but maybe somebody commenting on audio acoustics and decibels will know -- When you call a business and they pipe their automated music into the call while you're on-hold, why is the audio quality of that music frequently horrible? You'll get fuzzy music, or drop-outs of the music track - but when a human picks up the phone, it tends to sound just like most other phone calls. It seems like such a basic solvable problem, but I don't know where to attribute the blame.
I'm not an expert, but I believe the reason comes down to cost: call center lines can be configured either to have a few high quality calls, or more lower quality calls (think of how many more audio files you could stream simultaneously at a lower bitrate). Of course, having lower quality calls lets them handle the same number of calls at the lowest cost, and most businesses consider customer service to be a huge cost center, so they go for the cheapest thing.
I think the author answered their own question with this statement: "I’ve been on flights where the sound of the flight attendants over the PA system was loud enough to sound like the attendant was shouting directly into my ear despite having two layers of sound protection."
The PA system in the airplane is part of the safety equipment, the crew uses it to inform the passengers during an emergency what they should do to prepare. Everyone knows that during a flight people will have noise cancelling earphones on and possibly dual layers of protection. Also the ambient noise in an aircraft with its nose pitched down at a steep angle or in an uncontrolled spin is likely to be quite high. The PA has to cut through all of that in order to communicate with you.
I agree it would be nice if they didn't use full emergency power during non-essential communication, but the FAA considers the safety briefing to be essential communication so you are out of luck there.
Preferably, limit announcements to the bare minimum and use pre-recordings. There is too much variability in voice intensity. A pre-warning chime before an announcement would reduce stress and allow time to cover our ears. It would also spare me from apologizing to passengers since I scream when I am awoken abruptly. Thanks for the data Darren.
This is exacerbated by the absolutely intrusive use of the PA system--rather than just for safety announcements we now have the pleasure of enduring credit card and frequent flier program ads.
It's been my assertion, as both a solo passenger and one traveling with a child, that crying babies and toddlers are the result of one of two things:
1) Kids need to be chewing something, or sucking on a nipple/bottle/straw to help facilitate inner-ear pressure changes. Most aren't, and those that can't say "my ears hurt" simply scream.
2) Kids who are tired (because they're kids or because their parents figured "I'll tire him out so he sleeps on the flight") and get startled by a scary loud voice saying things they don't understand. Like yours - probably a tuckered out toddler desperate to rest, no?
(Edited to avoid sounding like I was disagreeing with parent comment)
I could believe it. I just flew Spirit (never again, for reasons in addition to this) a couple of weeks ago, and they spent the last 20 minutes or so of the flight hawking some kind of credit card deal. Even wearing earplugs barely put a dent in the volume.
I've not experienced this at all, but I routinely fly American or United (or their international "alliance" partners). My next flight is on Southwest. I wonder how different that'll be - boarding procedures don't generally bug me (we're all going to the same place in a giant airborne metal tube), but crew behavior has the power to wreck the experience for me.
They probably do it because no one pays attention to the announcements anymore. It's the same reason they (used to) turn up the volume on TV commercials.
Has the author tried asking the flight attendants to turn the volume down?
I use a pair of sony extra-bass earbuds that are thicker and have a bit of extra foam around the earbud to reduce noise. The work great in the airplane, knocking off about 50% of the outside volume. I leave them in the whole flight as they cut out most of the engine vibration as well. Also wear them in a crowded office, at home with kids, or coffee shop etc when I need to focus.
Most of the time I'm not even playing music, but people assume so and will interrupt you a bit less often. Also helpful when making calls, etc.
I recently flew Delta (I generally stick with American/USAir) and noticed this. On several occasions I noticed folks physically cringing and plugging their ears during PA announcements.
This is a pet peeve of mine that I developed while doing video production in the live event industry. Unfortunately almost nobody cares about protecting their hearing.
Pretty much everyone in food service in the US exposes themselves to dangerous audio levels throughout their work shifts. My coworkers with SPL meters routinely measured sound pressure levels above 105 dB for hours at a time. But try wearing earplugs as a waiter or bartender... you will be treated like a lunatic.
You say "in the US." Does that mean you've found other countries to be significantly quieter? I don't think I have, but I'm genuinely curious about this. Have there been any studies on the average sound levels in public places (or workplaces) in different countries?
I used to work for a major jet engine manufacturer. Noise reduction is right up there with fuel consumption in consideration with new model development. Not because of complaining passengers though.. A lot of the push comes from certain airports that aren't far enough outside of major cities (I can't remember which ones exactly, I think it was mostly a few major asian cities). They actually restrict certain models from using their airport.
I have for a long time used unobtrusive IEMs with Comply tips (MEElectronics, small, black, with a memory wire that guides the headphone wires over and behind the ears). They shut out the world very effectively, and are cheap enough that it's not a tragedy to lose them. I have never had a flight attendant bug me about them.
United is particularly bad about cranking their PA system up into distortion screeching range. It's pure sadism.
To take the edge off the sound (but only slightly... still able to carry on a conversation) and to prevent my ear drum from exploding I wear Ear Planes[1]. They aren't perfect, but I do find they help, say, maybe 40% of the pressure issue.
Recently spent over 48 hours in the wonderful company of Cathay Pacific. Their announcements (and especially their English announcements) are always a quiet high-speed mumble. 10/10 would (try to) listen to them again.
I think the correct response when the PA system is used at excessive volume is to scream loudly asking that it be turned down. When this becomes a socially acceptable (or simply common) response, airlines will have to stop.
I've always wanted to buy some good earplugs to protect my hearing from noisy environments (es. near public transport in the city). Does anyone have a product they recommend?
I own the "Etymotic Research ER20 ETY-Plugs", about $13 on Amazon Prime. They're much more comfortable than the cheap foam ones you can buy, they actually stay in your hear, and the tube means that you can still hear high frequencies. They reduce the surrounding volume rather than attempt to mute it. This makes them great for concerts.
There are also much more expensive concert earplugs for musicians, which do an even better job at preserving the spectrum, but I'm not that picky.
I get the beige "Hearos" off Amazon and they seem rather comfortable while providing a fair amount of volume reduction. They won't completely block out people being rude on flights, but they did well enough that I was able to sleep nicely for a few hours on a recent flight.
They're cheap and come in packs of 20. So I stash a handful in various places so I always have some accessible. In particular I keep a few in my essential medicine bottles since I'll have those while traveling. I find I can reuse them a few times, but if they feel off or dirty the cheapness means I don't hesitate grabbing a new pair.
a pet peeve of mine is when they do this in restaurants when calling out order numbers. they CRANK the fucking volume and then YELL into the microphone to call out order numbers when everyone is standing right at the counter!
Having many, many years of travel experience leads me to one Occam's Razor type observation:
If people would actually pay attention to a safety briefing instead of playing with their gadgets / not taking off their headphones, then the flight crew wouldn't be trying so hard to get the attention of the passengers.
With this unpopular opinion, I'll see myself out the nearest exit, which is actually located behind me.
Dude, I'm only 29 and I've flown in about 50 or 60 flights. I don't need to hear that I should put on my own oxygen mask before helping a toddler yet again. I get why they do it every flight, but I certainly don't need to pay attention.
Is there any indication the safety announcements are effective? The fact they dedicate so much time to taking about smoking makes me doubt they are evidence based. United's 787s have a no smoking sign built in to every single seat, at eye level.
I suppose it's possible that they fly places that have such a strong smoking culture that this is an important and useful reminder, but that seems doubtful.
Which makes me call into question the rest of the announcements.
Though, I've found United's new safety video to be so well done, I watch it every time despite having seen it dozens of times already.
Occam's (and Halon's) razor says that volume is set to an arbitrary default ("loud " == "audible") and no one cares to change it. It boggles that any other option is in consideration. In airline has done actual measurements of attention vs volume.
Alupis|11 years ago
> and opened the decibel meter on my iPhone
These are notoriously inaccurate. To get accurate decibel readings, the mic must be calibrated to absolute known levels (something your App can't do). The App's are basically just comparing relative sounds (this sound is more prominent than this other one, and therefore must be louder... after establishing some relative baseline). Real decibel measuring equipment is very expensive and requires re-calibration routinely. So, measuring 80db could easily be in a swing of +/- 10db's (or more).
> 150dB: Jet take-off at 25 meters (eardrum rupture)
That's not quite accurate. Long term exposure could lead to damage over time, but for comparison a shotgun is typically measured at 165db when it's up against your shoulder and face. Yes, you wear hearing protection (nick-named "ears" if you are a frequent shooter) but your eardrumps aren't rupturing immediately if you take them off.
> What shocked me was the volume of the PA system
Yes, it's loud -- by design. The PA system is not there just to provide something to listen to in case you are bored. In a best case scenario, it's there for the usual "buckle-up" talk and for the pilot to give a greeting. In the worst case scenario, it's there for emergency instructions (a time when panic and passenger noises are likely to get quite loud on their own).
driverdan|11 years ago
Actually, if you pick the correct app they are surprisingly accurate: http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/135/4/10.1...
MiguelVieira|11 years ago
> for A-weighted sound level measurements three apps had mean differences within ± 2dBA of the reference measurements. For un-weighted sound level measurements three apps had mean differences within the ± 2 dB of the reference measurement. Since national standards and occupational guidelines specify that type 2 sound measurement instruments have an accuracy of ± 2dBA, some of the above-mentioned apps could potentially be used in the occupational setting
http://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2014/04/09/sound-app...
dikaiosune|11 years ago
Side note: I'm always curious how soldiers/SWAT/HRT/etc. are able to hold normal volume conversations. If they're wearing ear-protection, how do they listen for potential threats and assailants? If not, how do they not shout all day long every day?
city41|11 years ago
e40|11 years ago
Yeah, but there's no reason for the people operating the PA to blast our ears for mundane drivel. I was on a flight last weekend where, because I was right next to a speaker, I had to cover my ears for 5 minutes while the flight attendant droned on about non-emergency stuff. It was so loud it hurt my ears. I already have tinnitus, so I don't need any more hearing loss.
wl|11 years ago
edsykes|11 years ago
however, in the absence of anything else it is an indication.
nakedrobot2|11 years ago
Just another instance of outrageously bad customer service in the airline industry. I'm convinced at this point that they simply despise their entire customer base.
ZoFreX|11 years ago
raldi|11 years ago
Then turn the airplane's volume to max and adjust your inline volume to a comfortable level. In my experience, the announcements will then also be at a comfortable level.
steve-howard|11 years ago
I dozed off with my headphones plugged in, listening to something relaxing on a low volume. Several times I was awakened without warning when they showed the film trailer at full volume. Boy did that piss me off.
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/business/media/21adco.html
sjwright|11 years ago
This works because most aircraft systems deliver PA announcements at a pre-set volume and isn't affected by the entertainment volume.
(The other thing I tend to do is simply disconnect my QC15 during announcements and listen (or not) to the announcement broadcast in the cabin, attenuated by the headphone's noise cancellation.)
cnvogel|11 years ago
As an explanation: A compressor/limiter is a device in audio processing used for leveling (compressing) the dynamic range, by making quiet things louder, and making louder things quieter. In the extreme case, one can configure a threshold of (power, loudness, amplitude, depending on the operation of the devices) which cannot be exceeded. [All you sound engineers, please excuse the simplification...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression
helper|11 years ago
6stringmerc|11 years ago
– Sideshow Bob
Having seen the airline industry change over the course of 30 years, I simply despise the customer base as well, and fly as infrequently as possible.
rottyguy|11 years ago
Anyone know?
scott_s|11 years ago
I can't say that the sibling comments are wrong, but I don't think that's the real reason. Bars (clubs, really) do it because it fosters a feeling of unreality. It makes being at the bar different, and you feel different, and it's (supposed) to be special - it's a party. People show up because it does not feel like normal life.
Personally, the practice drives me crazy. As I intimated above, bars that do this are really clubs at night. I prefer places where a group of people can sit around a table and actually talk over some drinks.
omegant|11 years ago
As it was my party I told him to do it as he saw fit and indeed almost all the people (200) danced.
Then one neighbour complained and he lowered the volume (just for a while ;) ) and most people stopped dancing almost immediately. When he boosted the volume again, they all jumped to dance.
It was amazing.
Edit: Typo.
Reply to the comment below: I understand your comment, but the party was in a former s.XIX coastal battery fortress,(now an environmental Hotel). This fortress is excavated on the stone , below the ground level (You don´t see it till you are literally falling in the ditch). The place where the Party took place was 10 meters below the ground level, behind a fortress wall, a 6m high ditch and 1.5 km away from the nearest buildings, separated by rolling hills and Mediterranean woods.
No, sorry but I certainly was not that worried of the volume and the neighbours.
ashark|11 years ago
I love small venues, but I hate how bad the music sounds at so many of them. Does anyone actually prefer this?
DanBC|11 years ago
You reduce the numbers of chairs and tables. That means that you fit more people in and they have to hold their drinks. Holding a drink means you drink it quicker. They turn up the volume so you chat less, which also means you drink faster.
superme|11 years ago
sliverstorm|11 years ago
It allows you to be in a social setting while keeping your conversation private.
toothbrush|11 years ago
dikaiosune|11 years ago
djb_hackernews|11 years ago
pngat2x|11 years ago
Table G-16 - Permissible Noise Exposures
https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_tab...
userbinator|11 years ago
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/PermissibleExposureTime.htm
I think the 99dB value the author of the article measured is not arbitrary - and was chosen specifically to meet some regulations.
wahsd|11 years ago
I see a lawsuit or a public shame campaign as far more effective. How does "United caused my child to have brain damage due to the loud PA system ... oh, and now he's autistic too"? That should work.
nate_meurer|11 years ago
---
Earplugs! I bought a box of foam earplugs that has supplied me for years now. I cut them in half; half an earplug is the perfect length for unobtrusive everyday wear.
I have quantities of half-earplugs stashed in all my pants pockets, in my car, my work bag, and in a little container on my keychain. I wear them in the car, on planes, at the shooting range, when grinding coffee, and especially when putting away dishes. Fucking clanging-together dishes are the loudest things I encounter in my regular routine.
For my kids I bought silicone putty plugs. They work perfectly for little ears, and I keep them with the foam plugs. My kids know where the big orange jar of earplugs is, and they've acquired some of my discipline.
driverdan|11 years ago
I also recommend earphones (in ear headphones). They're much like earbuds with foam earplugs. They block out sound about as well as foam earplugs but with the bonus of being able to listen to audio.
azth|11 years ago
Hopefully not while driving though :)
jaxbot|11 years ago
jonnathanson|11 years ago
I'll hazard a guess--and I might be completely wrong--that there is some sort of legal reason for this. Maybe there have been lawsuits in which people claimed not to have heard the in-flight announcements, and therefore, did not feel not bound to them. I dunno. It just seems as if there's a reason for this. Not necessarily a good reason, but a reason.
Anyhow, this is 100% armchair speculation. It just seems like the sort of thing that could have happened.
scrollaway|11 years ago
userbinator|11 years ago
mikeash|11 years ago
The PA system should be reserved for actual important safety-related announcements. It's outrageous that the same system that would be used to tell you to brace for a crash is also used to repeatedly flog credit cards, duty-free sales, and other such nonsense, training everybody to ignore it.
sukilot|11 years ago
binarymax|11 years ago
I haven't used it on flights yet but did some research and splurged on the Faber Acoustical SoundMeter (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/soundmeter/id287615105?mt=8&...). I bought it since I live on a busy road and lots of sirens go by, adding to the general traffic whooshing. Sirens are in the high range and go over 100. Its a good app to have to check whether I'm going crazy or if it is really loud in place where I'm feeling overwhelmed with sound.
I will be sure to try it out next time I fly and provide some data. Maybe we can crowdsource samples of airline loudness.
MichaelGG|11 years ago
xenonysf|11 years ago
cryptoz|11 years ago
It's a neat problem. You can turn on smartphone microphones and listen for noise levels to measure for noise pollution and law violations, etc. However, you have to develop algorithms that filter our human conversations (for this application linked above), and the privacy implications are astronomical.
Edit: http://www.citylab.com/tech/2013/05/crowdsourcing-citys-quie...
uptown|11 years ago
userbinator|11 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceband
It may also be a legacy system using old worn-out looping casette tapes for the music.
spectre256|11 years ago
ChuckMcM|11 years ago
The PA system in the airplane is part of the safety equipment, the crew uses it to inform the passengers during an emergency what they should do to prepare. Everyone knows that during a flight people will have noise cancelling earphones on and possibly dual layers of protection. Also the ambient noise in an aircraft with its nose pitched down at a steep angle or in an uncontrolled spin is likely to be quite high. The PA has to cut through all of that in order to communicate with you.
I agree it would be nice if they didn't use full emergency power during non-essential communication, but the FAA considers the safety briefing to be essential communication so you are out of luck there.
louprado|11 years ago
thanatosmin|11 years ago
k2enemy|11 years ago
spdustin|11 years ago
1) Kids need to be chewing something, or sucking on a nipple/bottle/straw to help facilitate inner-ear pressure changes. Most aren't, and those that can't say "my ears hurt" simply scream.
2) Kids who are tired (because they're kids or because their parents figured "I'll tire him out so he sleeps on the flight") and get startled by a scary loud voice saying things they don't understand. Like yours - probably a tuckered out toddler desperate to rest, no?
(Edited to avoid sounding like I was disagreeing with parent comment)
ufmace|11 years ago
spdustin|11 years ago
aembleton|11 years ago
joshuaheard|11 years ago
Has the author tried asking the flight attendants to turn the volume down?
chadgeidel|11 years ago
mixmastamyk|11 years ago
Most of the time I'm not even playing music, but people assume so and will interrupt you a bit less often. Also helpful when making calls, etc.
JshWright|11 years ago
grandalf|11 years ago
In my opinion, the less that is broadcast over the PA the better.
lfam|11 years ago
Pretty much everyone in food service in the US exposes themselves to dangerous audio levels throughout their work shifts. My coworkers with SPL meters routinely measured sound pressure levels above 105 dB for hours at a time. But try wearing earplugs as a waiter or bartender... you will be treated like a lunatic.
zippergz|11 years ago
specialist|11 years ago
I get cranky when I see kids without ear protection, especially toddlers and younger, who have no control or way to escape.
I make a point of praising the parents who put ear muffs on their infants.
mschip|11 years ago
lil_cain|11 years ago
Zigurd|11 years ago
United is particularly bad about cranking their PA system up into distortion screeching range. It's pure sadism.
quinndupont|11 years ago
1] http://www.cirrushealthcare.com/EarPlanes-Adult-P49.aspx
suvelx|11 years ago
Everything else was terrible.
shutupalready22|11 years ago
SunShiranui|11 years ago
murbard2|11 years ago
There are also much more expensive concert earplugs for musicians, which do an even better job at preserving the spectrum, but I'm not that picky.
alextgordon|11 years ago
MichaelGG|11 years ago
They're cheap and come in packs of 20. So I stash a handful in various places so I always have some accessible. In particular I keep a few in my essential medicine bottles since I'll have those while traveling. I find I can reuse them a few times, but if they feel off or dirty the cheapness means I don't hesitate grabbing a new pair.
falcolas|11 years ago
The one thing I like about them over the similar Etymotics is they don't stick out of your ear quite as much.
[1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3Z44R2/
binarymax|11 years ago
beachstartup|11 years ago
ehosca|11 years ago
dothething|11 years ago
6stringmerc|11 years ago
If people would actually pay attention to a safety briefing instead of playing with their gadgets / not taking off their headphones, then the flight crew wouldn't be trying so hard to get the attention of the passengers.
With this unpopular opinion, I'll see myself out the nearest exit, which is actually located behind me.
3pt14159|11 years ago
MichaelGG|11 years ago
I suppose it's possible that they fly places that have such a strong smoking culture that this is an important and useful reminder, but that seems doubtful.
Which makes me call into question the rest of the announcements.
Though, I've found United's new safety video to be so well done, I watch it every time despite having seen it dozens of times already.
sukilot|11 years ago
guelo|11 years ago