there’s an entire high-end computer stuck to the back of it
Actually, there's an entire discount-parts ($150 cpu, $70 video card) computer stuck to the back of it. If you configure it with high-end parts the price goes up to $2200 and even then you're getting a previous-generation video card (radeon 4850 rather than the new 5850).
It's not really so curious. Apple does the "make exclusive deal with a supplier and beat the rest of the market by 6 months in order to look cool" trick all the time. They did it with Intel for the Macbook Air CPU for example.
What it must mean is that e-IPS panels cost much less to manufacture than s-IPS panels. And that a new generation of higher-res e-IPS displays will be arriving in 6 months.
LG Display has developed what it calls e-IPS. e-IPS is a version of the company’s trademark IPS technology that brings the cost down. Way down. LG Display target market is toward the larger LCD monitor market that is currently dominated by TN (Twisted Nematic) technology. LG Display has stated that its e-IPS LCD panels will be price competitive with TN LCD panels.
The breathless claim of a "high end computer" stuck out to me also. The iMac computer parts are one step up from bargain bin. They aren't the cheapest possible, but on a scale with two ends, they aren't near the "high" end of that scale.
I also like the author's math, a 25% price difference isn't much?
Bear in mind that the iMac uses almost exclusively laptop parts, which are more expensive (but have better thermal profiles, and are of course smaller).
The only thing in an iMac that is desktop-sized is I believe the HDD (and maybe the RAM? I'm not sure).
I love my Apple products, but Apple fanboys..come on. It took me less than 5 minutes to find out why the panel is so cheap. Seriously, why must you always be so...gushing?
I dont think the price is that low. If you look at these cheap (and smaller) (E-)IPS panels that are popping up (NEC EA231WMi 23"for 300 euro, dell's ips for 200 or samsung c-pva for 200) i think its pretty obvious that its possible to produce an inexpensive screen. The computer on the back might cost like 300 so I think there is still a decent margin for apple
As usual with any Apple release, I started some friendly banter with my Apple-loving friends about how poor the value is compared to a regular PC, until I got to the 27" Imac and realised you couldn't buy a screen that good, elsewhere - at any price.
This is it. I think I am converting to a Mac. The last reason I didn't was because there's a common perception that they're priced too high. Unless this is a misprint, that time is over.
$1700 for the next to lowest end offering is too high. Dell doesn't even break $1000 territory until you get to their upper end offerings. For $1700 you could buy two computers and a laptop (or two computers and two netbooks).
The price of IPS displays is dropping because LG has developed a new technology called e-IPS that costs much less to make than s-IPS, which it's replacing. The e-IPS displays still cost more than TN displays I think.
I never thought I'd find something that I'd actually consider buying from Apple, this is the first product to break that rule, it's a really nice monitor for a real computer, and if I feel like having a fap about how designer I am, I can use the free mac...
:D
A few folks, including this article, make it sound like you're buying a monitor and getting a computer for "free". But if it's like previous iMacs then you're buying a monitor that can only be used with the "free" computer.
If that is the case then that's a good reason for Apple getting a good deal. There's no way for this to cannibalize sales of actual monitors, unless the buyer was planning to weld it irreversibly and permanently to a Mac mini.
Which also renders any price comparison moot. It's a thing unto itself, only really directly comparable with other iMacs.
Yes, you can. The display port is bi-directional. In a sort of quirky way. Apple has addressed one of the longest lingering questions of the iMac line (and basically all AIO lines). People upgrade the PC but could reuse the display. With an AIO everything had to go.
I disagree, I use emacs with vertical splits (ie 1|2|3 layout) and 16:10 and 16:9 is great for that, also it means that spreading over onto the second (16:10) monitor isn't a change in layout policy.
I could never go back to 4:3 layout for programming, as I discovered last year when one of my 16:10s died and I had to use an old 4:3 I had laying around.
I use a 2-column layout on a 30" Apple Cinema display. Each of the columns has a 4:5 (8:10) aspect ratio, which is actually excellent for programming. If you did this on the new iMac, you'd get 2x 8:9, which is still pretty good. You soon don't want to miss the high number of vertical pixels.
What puts me off is the reflective finish. I can live with it on a 13" MacBook, but I'd find it impossible on that sort of size, where you're practically guaranteed to get a light source into view. Oh, and the fact that the HDD isn't user serviceable. Two hard drive bays would be nice, too, considering there's no eSATA or ExpressCard.
I would guess the real reason is mentioned at the end: there really is not much of a point in buying a desktop PC anymore (unless you are a hardcore gamer). It makes much more sense to buy a notebook and attach it to an external monitor when working at home.
Also prices for flatscreens are dropping all the time. If the Dell 30'' also has the special panel, and only is lacking in some other specs, maybe enhancing those other specs is not as expensive as adding the better panel type (whether they are important or not is another matter - if you WANT to spend a lot of money, you can always find a reason, like "this audio system does not have gold coated cables" or whatever).
In any case this makes me hope for a price drop of the 30'' Dell displays...
This is making me wish I'd read the article that went by a couple days ago with a headline like "Are new Apple iMacs a harbinger of the new Apple TV?"
Because if I felt like mongering a crazy Apple-related rumor on a subject which I know nothing about [1], I'd guess that one good way to get a manufacturer to grant you a crazy price break is to tell them that, as soon as they can ramp up production to the necessary levels, Apple will release an Ive-designed Apple-branded TV with their parts inside it and have Steve Jobs stand on stage to promote that TV.
---
[1] Which, according to the empirical evidence of this post, I apparently do. I need to get some more sleep.
Apple would have to get their playback environment up to media center standards. Even the Apple TV was a usability nightmare by home theater standards.
when I got my Macbook Alu - I got baffled by its high quality and sleekness. The 13" Macbook Alu was a bargain relative to its quality. When I experienced the unboxing, I felt like a 16 year old virgin girl..and I'm a boy.. ehehe
One year later - and there are still no other company that can offer a similar high quality laptop. Thinkpad has pretty much crashed and burned after china got their hands the product management.
I guarantee you that this 27" will provide a first time apple owner with a unboxing experience you will never forget. It will simply raise the bar for how you perceive quality.
"It will simply raise the bar for how you perceive quality."
Unless you have to return it three times before you receive one that has no extreme production flaws (happened to a friend with his iMac - mind you, he is still an Apple fan boy despite of that experience...).
The Dell monitor pricing he quotes - $1200 for LCD - is pretty gougey too. Dell hardware is generally bad value unless it's on special offer, a bare-bones system (in which case it'll lack extensibility), or part of a corporate purchase.
My 24'' monitor from Dell is great, it was not very expensive, and it has served me well for years now. I think you generalize too much (also, never buy from the consumer section). My X1 from Dell is also great, I love it much more than my generic MacBook.
LCD display(not panels) makers manufacturers still make decent margin. There is a reason why these guys keep selling these things with a lot of competition on price.
Apple is most likely still making a nice ~20% margin on the 27" iMacs.
$1700 seems like a pretty good price for that. I hate Apple, but could almost see myself replacing my 4-year-old laptop (which I never undock) + 24" monitor with one of these. (I would not keep OS X, of course.)
That's a common resolution. I have a Thinkpad T42 with that same 15" screen, although, that resolution equally common at 14" (my wife has a T43 with that resolution).
The iMac 27" is really a unique resolution, largely due to I believe, the change in aspect ratio.
The Apple screen, on top of being higher resolution, is also a IPS panel, which gives much better viewing angles as well as color reproduction. It is the only type of LCD suitable for photo/video work.
For a bunch of people who complain a lot about getting good value for your dollar (and how Apple doesn't do that), you sure are misinformed about the gear you're buying. I suppose as long as it throws some kind of image up on screen it's good right?
[+] [-] davidmathers|16 years ago|reply
Actually, there's an entire discount-parts ($150 cpu, $70 video card) computer stuck to the back of it. If you configure it with high-end parts the price goes up to $2200 and even then you're getting a previous-generation video card (radeon 4850 rather than the new 5850).
It's not really so curious. Apple does the "make exclusive deal with a supplier and beat the rest of the market by 6 months in order to look cool" trick all the time. They did it with Intel for the Macbook Air CPU for example.
What it must mean is that e-IPS panels cost much less to manufacture than s-IPS panels. And that a new generation of higher-res e-IPS displays will be arriving in 6 months.
EDIT: I googled "e-ips" and found this at http://www.displayblog.com/2009/02/13/lg-display-e-ips-lcd-p...
LG Display has developed what it calls e-IPS. e-IPS is a version of the company’s trademark IPS technology that brings the cost down. Way down. LG Display target market is toward the larger LCD monitor market that is currently dominated by TN (Twisted Nematic) technology. LG Display has stated that its e-IPS LCD panels will be price competitive with TN LCD panels.
[+] [-] elblanco|16 years ago|reply
I also like the author's math, a 25% price difference isn't much?
sigh
[+] [-] potatolicious|16 years ago|reply
The only thing in an iMac that is desktop-sized is I believe the HDD (and maybe the RAM? I'm not sure).
[+] [-] davidmathers|16 years ago|reply
I love my Apple products, but Apple fanboys..come on. It took me less than 5 minutes to find out why the panel is so cheap. Seriously, why must you always be so...gushing?
P.S. Instapaper is brilliant!
[+] [-] maukdaddy|16 years ago|reply
edit: By "it" I meant exclusivity deals.
[+] [-] yread|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elblanco|16 years ago|reply
http://www.displayblog.com/2009/01/28/lg-display-lpl-23-e-ip...
[+] [-] Andys|16 years ago|reply
As usual with any Apple release, I started some friendly banter with my Apple-loving friends about how poor the value is compared to a regular PC, until I got to the 27" Imac and realised you couldn't buy a screen that good, elsewhere - at any price.
[+] [-] elblanco|16 years ago|reply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176...
[+] [-] cyman|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gits_tokyo|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elblanco|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vegai|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidmathers|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] etherael|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ZeroGravitas|16 years ago|reply
A few folks, including this article, make it sound like you're buying a monitor and getting a computer for "free". But if it's like previous iMacs then you're buying a monitor that can only be used with the "free" computer.
If that is the case then that's a good reason for Apple getting a good deal. There's no way for this to cannibalize sales of actual monitors, unless the buyer was planning to weld it irreversibly and permanently to a Mac mini.
Which also renders any price comparison moot. It's a thing unto itself, only really directly comparable with other iMacs.
[+] [-] yardie|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|16 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|16 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jbellis|16 years ago|reply
I still miss 4:3. Much better for programming.
[+] [-] NikkiA|16 years ago|reply
I could never go back to 4:3 layout for programming, as I discovered last year when one of my 16:10s died and I had to use an old 4:3 I had laying around.
[+] [-] pmjordan|16 years ago|reply
What puts me off is the reflective finish. I can live with it on a 13" MacBook, but I'd find it impossible on that sort of size, where you're practically guaranteed to get a light source into view. Oh, and the fact that the HDD isn't user serviceable. Two hard drive bays would be nice, too, considering there's no eSATA or ExpressCard.
[+] [-] brunoc|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tichy|16 years ago|reply
Also prices for flatscreens are dropping all the time. If the Dell 30'' also has the special panel, and only is lacking in some other specs, maybe enhancing those other specs is not as expensive as adding the better panel type (whether they are important or not is another matter - if you WANT to spend a lot of money, you can always find a reason, like "this audio system does not have gold coated cables" or whatever).
In any case this makes me hope for a price drop of the 30'' Dell displays...
[+] [-] Retric|16 years ago|reply
I also have an iPhone for internet access on the go. So I don't see the need to buy another portable computer.
[+] [-] mechanical_fish|16 years ago|reply
Because if I felt like mongering a crazy Apple-related rumor on a subject which I know nothing about [1], I'd guess that one good way to get a manufacturer to grant you a crazy price break is to tell them that, as soon as they can ramp up production to the necessary levels, Apple will release an Ive-designed Apple-branded TV with their parts inside it and have Steve Jobs stand on stage to promote that TV.
---
[1] Which, according to the empirical evidence of this post, I apparently do. I need to get some more sleep.
[+] [-] kburn|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] morphir|16 years ago|reply
One year later - and there are still no other company that can offer a similar high quality laptop. Thinkpad has pretty much crashed and burned after china got their hands the product management.
I guarantee you that this 27" will provide a first time apple owner with a unboxing experience you will never forget. It will simply raise the bar for how you perceive quality.
[+] [-] Tichy|16 years ago|reply
Unless you have to return it three times before you receive one that has no extreme production flaws (happened to a friend with his iMac - mind you, he is still an Apple fan boy despite of that experience...).
[+] [-] barrkel|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tichy|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elblanco|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lyime|16 years ago|reply
Apple is most likely still making a nice ~20% margin on the 27" iMacs.
[+] [-] jrockway|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timtrueman|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrischen|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elblanco|16 years ago|reply
http://gizmodo.com/5389166/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-10v...
[+] [-] zandorg|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mbreese|16 years ago|reply
The iMac 27" is really a unique resolution, largely due to I believe, the change in aspect ratio.
[+] [-] kajecounterhack|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eleitl|16 years ago|reply
So, no, the computer at the back is not exactly free.
[+] [-] potatolicious|16 years ago|reply
"Panel Type: VA - Vertical alignment"
The Apple screen, on top of being higher resolution, is also a IPS panel, which gives much better viewing angles as well as color reproduction. It is the only type of LCD suitable for photo/video work.
For a bunch of people who complain a lot about getting good value for your dollar (and how Apple doesn't do that), you sure are misinformed about the gear you're buying. I suppose as long as it throws some kind of image up on screen it's good right?
[+] [-] jbellis|16 years ago|reply