I'm a native Californian who has been abroad in Vietnam and Italy for the past year and a half (where tipping is very, very uncommon). Tipping was just second-nature before I left the states. However, when I visited over the summer, I couldn't believe how wrong tipping felt. Wrong to feel social pressure to tip. Wrong to feel an internal obligation to tip, due to the (often) low wages paid to restaurant employees. Wrong to feel "cheated" by the menu price (which is 15-25% below the actual cost of the meal).
I can only hope that tipping ceases to exist in the States someday. Not only for my own benefit; but for the benefit of most employees who rely on tips to get through their lives.
I'm a Brit. As a young teen I travelled with my parents to the west. One night we had dinner in a restaurant where the service was slow, got things wrong, and where the food was just sub-par to awful. We left without tipping, only to have the manager literally follow my dad out of the restaurant, chase him down in the street, and try to guilt him in to hand over more money... exactly like you'd expect if he was some kind of thief not paying his bill. It was undignified and embarrassing, and the lady didn't seem put back at all when he told her we had had a horrible experience there. She wasn't just concerned about the service we had received either, as far as she was concerned a 20% tip was her right.
I understand the pay structure in the service industry in the US requires tipping for waiters and waitresses etc to make a living, but the whole thing seems sordid. Turning something that should be a gesture of genuine appreciation in to a meaningless ritual.
I am from Denmark. 10 years ago tipping was only something you saw in movies. Today some places are trying it and they ask upfront "Do you want to leave a tip?". It seems so forced and wrong. It just makes the whole experience end in on weird note.
Needless to say, I dislike tipping and I feel it should be a part of the salary. The servers need to be able to just focus on their jobs.
I'm a native Ohioan and have (had?) lived in California for the past 4 years. Currently I'm abroad in South America, and I have to say I miss tipping. Why? Because when there isn't an incentive for the staff to give good service, I often get terrible service. It can take ages to get served, I'll often request something when food is first brought and don't receive it until I'm already done with my meal, etc. Part of this is certainly related to the laid back attitude of Latin America cultures, but if the service employees were incentivized to give better service they probably wouldn't stand around talking to each other for 15 minutes while my friends and I are waiting on another beer.
Now I do hate that in the States there are now tip jars at all sorts of establishments, but to me restaurants and bars I much prefer tipping culture.
Tipping can be an excuse to build a really nice win-win relationship. I have a few local restaurants I frequent where I tip the servers well, 20% rounded up to the nearest dollar to start. They know me by name. They know what I like to eat. They'll recommend food and drink and off-menu options based on what they've learned about me. I get free food and samples, conversation, and a general feeling of being a part of the community.
With tipping I view my server as my agent. They're their to help me and I'm going to pay them well for that help. Without tips, or in chain restaurants where the staff turns over frequently and that relationship is harder to establish, I miss the partnership and the experience.
There's a very interesting episode of Planet Money about tipping[1].
I was neutral on tipping before listening, and now I'm staunchly against it. Not only is it discriminatory, it has no effect on the quality of service.
Like a lot of Americans, I never went out of the country, so really had never given tipping a second thought besides laughing at Buscemi in Reservoir Dogs.
Having been to Europe and Asia a few times in last few years, I've seen the other side now. And yeah, what we do is just strange, and I don't think it's helpful at all. The service still has the usual variation of suck vs. fine.
The thing is that I feel like part of a problem. The truth is that even here I probably overtip (15-20% on -any- service, taxi, hair, whatever) mostly because I can't remember our tipping rules on all the various things you're supposed to tip for, and because trying to do calculations on the fly are a burden. It's either "the couple of bucks in my pocket" for stuff like carrying bags or "20% on the final bill" for almost anything else because that's what's easy to figure out quickly in my head.
Further, I don't carry cash anymore for the most part, so I'm constantly shorting delivery people, service professionals, all that, because I can't add the tip to the final bill but don't have currency.
So really wish we'd back off of it. I'd happily just bump up the portion of my payment on a number of things by 15%+ if that's what it took to compensate people fairly without my having to try to remember what's right. Then I could tip for actual exemplary service instead of just feeling mildly confused (or screwed) all the time.
I've thought about this too. Instead of "tip creep", I hoped technology would have enabled us to emerge from this nonsensical tipping culture (the US is in dire need of change in this regard).
It definitely needs to change. There are very few other industries that have 'tipping' as a core part, and food service is (I think) rather unique in that the server's tips are dependent on loads of other folks who aren't subject to tipping "below min wage" pay, yet typically still get a cut of the tips.
I'm thinking of the rest of the staff - managers, busboys, cooks, cleaners, etc. All of those other roles have an impact on the service, yet, AFAIK, only the server has to deal with $2/hr-please-i'm-begging-for-a-tip situation.
Tipping has generally no effect on the quality of the rest of the service - food quality, cleanliness, speed, etc. Those are all outside the control of the server, but they're going to bear the brunt of the bad output from those other workers.
They can do whatever they want. I go to a variety of places for lunch. Some places have tips, some places don't.
When they have tips, I tend to tip based on extent and quality of service(I never tip with percentage).
My average tip for a lunch service is about four dollars, when they go above and beyond, are especially prompt and helpful, or respond to my emotional condition, I tend to tip higher.
Lunch is my only daily meal, and service at lunch is just as important as the food in my opinion, whether I'm taking somebody along and want to be taken care of, or just trying to eat something that will relieve stress from work.
I don't experience any pressure while tipping; I just add my few bucks, and if something special has happened, I add a couple more; I don't bother myself with percentages, except maybe to keep above the bare minimum 20% gratuity so I don't get any funny looks out the door.
To me it sounds (from comments, not article), that the reliance on tips is because ibstead of paying the wait staff a proper wage, they can set their menu/advertised price lower and make assumptions.
Now as someone who not obly worked in hospitality but also ran a few restaurants, this is an insane premise. How the hell could you rely in professional wait staff (not students but actual trained and comitted staff), if you cant guarantee them a good wage to vegin with.
Tipping is supposeto show your appreciated for exceptional service, to force your staff to assume its a guaranteed alotment is bullshit.
Also, im in japan now (out of hospitality yay), i get exceptional service everywhrre with no expectation of tips, and damned if i dont tip a hell of a lot more here.
Just off the top of my head ... why not precalculate the tip for the majority of people who don't to fiddle with it, and simply let people change the tip if they really want, for those times when the service was atrocious?
I thought Square did this, but it must be one of the other systems. There are buttons for 15%, 18%, and 20% and a custom button that allows you to enter an arbitrary amount.
In case you're wondering, you're being downvoted because you're not supposed to say things like "this is interesting" or "I agree" on HN. Comments are supposed to have content to them. Otherwise they should just be in the form of upvotes.
Interesting, hope this topic/discussion picks up steam here on HN. I'm really curious to see what people have to say about tipping in general.
#Edit. More info why I'd like this to be discussed on HN.
I say this, as I've discussed this topic many times with many individuals online. Frankly, most of them are very very hostile. I've received death threats from servers for suggesting the remove of the tipping culture. To be fair, it was on Facebook, but at the same time that is a bit disturbing. These are individuals making credible, violent, disgusting threats because they can't consider alternate views on something they are single-minded on.
I do generally find that HN discussion is quite a bit better. If not for the fact that downvoting is much more strict, then for the quality of ideas/insights that people here have. Sometimes, quite different to what I've been exposed to before. +1 for that.
In case you're wondering, you're being downvoted because you're not supposed to say things like "this is interesting" or "I agree" on HN. Comments are supposed to have content to them. Otherwise they should just be in the form of upvotes.
Check out the link I posted elsewhere to the Planet Money episode on tipping.
[+] [-] ryannevius|11 years ago|reply
I can only hope that tipping ceases to exist in the States someday. Not only for my own benefit; but for the benefit of most employees who rely on tips to get through their lives.
[+] [-] nly|11 years ago|reply
I understand the pay structure in the service industry in the US requires tipping for waiters and waitresses etc to make a living, but the whole thing seems sordid. Turning something that should be a gesture of genuine appreciation in to a meaningless ritual.
[+] [-] madsravn|11 years ago|reply
Needless to say, I dislike tipping and I feel it should be a part of the salary. The servers need to be able to just focus on their jobs.
[+] [-] WarDekar|11 years ago|reply
Now I do hate that in the States there are now tip jars at all sorts of establishments, but to me restaurants and bars I much prefer tipping culture.
[+] [-] KevinEldon|11 years ago|reply
With tipping I view my server as my agent. They're their to help me and I'm going to pay them well for that help. Without tips, or in chain restaurants where the staff turns over frequently and that relationship is harder to establish, I miss the partnership and the experience.
[+] [-] smt88|11 years ago|reply
I was neutral on tipping before listening, and now I'm staunchly against it. Not only is it discriminatory, it has no effect on the quality of service.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/06/24/137346289/why-we-t...
[+] [-] geoelectric|11 years ago|reply
Having been to Europe and Asia a few times in last few years, I've seen the other side now. And yeah, what we do is just strange, and I don't think it's helpful at all. The service still has the usual variation of suck vs. fine.
The thing is that I feel like part of a problem. The truth is that even here I probably overtip (15-20% on -any- service, taxi, hair, whatever) mostly because I can't remember our tipping rules on all the various things you're supposed to tip for, and because trying to do calculations on the fly are a burden. It's either "the couple of bucks in my pocket" for stuff like carrying bags or "20% on the final bill" for almost anything else because that's what's easy to figure out quickly in my head.
Further, I don't carry cash anymore for the most part, so I'm constantly shorting delivery people, service professionals, all that, because I can't add the tip to the final bill but don't have currency.
So really wish we'd back off of it. I'd happily just bump up the portion of my payment on a number of things by 15%+ if that's what it took to compensate people fairly without my having to try to remember what's right. Then I could tip for actual exemplary service instead of just feeling mildly confused (or screwed) all the time.
[+] [-] izolate|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mgkimsal|11 years ago|reply
I'm thinking of the rest of the staff - managers, busboys, cooks, cleaners, etc. All of those other roles have an impact on the service, yet, AFAIK, only the server has to deal with $2/hr-please-i'm-begging-for-a-tip situation.
Tipping has generally no effect on the quality of the rest of the service - food quality, cleanliness, speed, etc. Those are all outside the control of the server, but they're going to bear the brunt of the bad output from those other workers.
[+] [-] edgyswingset|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasonlotito|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microcolonel|11 years ago|reply
They can do whatever they want. I go to a variety of places for lunch. Some places have tips, some places don't.
When they have tips, I tend to tip based on extent and quality of service(I never tip with percentage). My average tip for a lunch service is about four dollars, when they go above and beyond, are especially prompt and helpful, or respond to my emotional condition, I tend to tip higher.
Lunch is my only daily meal, and service at lunch is just as important as the food in my opinion, whether I'm taking somebody along and want to be taken care of, or just trying to eat something that will relieve stress from work.
I don't experience any pressure while tipping; I just add my few bucks, and if something special has happened, I add a couple more; I don't bother myself with percentages, except maybe to keep above the bare minimum 20% gratuity so I don't get any funny looks out the door.
[+] [-] marak830|11 years ago|reply
Now as someone who not obly worked in hospitality but also ran a few restaurants, this is an insane premise. How the hell could you rely in professional wait staff (not students but actual trained and comitted staff), if you cant guarantee them a good wage to vegin with.
Tipping is supposeto show your appreciated for exceptional service, to force your staff to assume its a guaranteed alotment is bullshit.
Also, im in japan now (out of hospitality yay), i get exceptional service everywhrre with no expectation of tips, and damned if i dont tip a hell of a lot more here.
[+] [-] zkhalique|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonlucc|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Huud1e|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smt88|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zo1|11 years ago|reply
#Edit. More info why I'd like this to be discussed on HN.
I say this, as I've discussed this topic many times with many individuals online. Frankly, most of them are very very hostile. I've received death threats from servers for suggesting the remove of the tipping culture. To be fair, it was on Facebook, but at the same time that is a bit disturbing. These are individuals making credible, violent, disgusting threats because they can't consider alternate views on something they are single-minded on.
I do generally find that HN discussion is quite a bit better. If not for the fact that downvoting is much more strict, then for the quality of ideas/insights that people here have. Sometimes, quite different to what I've been exposed to before. +1 for that.
[+] [-] smt88|11 years ago|reply
Check out the link I posted elsewhere to the Planet Money episode on tipping.