Personal anecdote, I can thank a country doctor and my elementary school teachers for recognizing this back in the 70's: I was sent to school with a thermos of coffee and permission to go to the gym and run until I could compose myself.
Personal anecdote: people (incl. doctors) laugh at me when I say I may (within 3-sigma) have ADHD, either because "that's for kids only", or because "it's just a myth and I should get my act together and quit being lazy". I have no hope of getting any form of medication for my condition.
I was lucky enough to discover a few sports (snowboarding, rollerskating, climbing) at the right time i my life that managed, unbeknownst to me, to get me through the parts of life where I needed the most focus (incl. my degree). Things went downhill when I started to work and got a car, which dramatically reduced my physical activity, up until I picked myself up and went running, then skateboarding. This changed my quality of life on so many levels: although I still get both periods of numbness and hyperfocus, the positive feedback loops are much more frequent and negative feedback loops much less so. I still have to take great conscious care about not exerting (physically or mentally) myself too much because there seems to be no warning telling me "hey this is too much" and I regularly wear myself out. Still, I now have control over my life, but the fact that all of this I had to find myself early in my 30s and still get scorned at to this day is terrible: how many are being cast away as either unruly or lazy and left to their own devices?
I have ADHD and I have always performed better in school during sports seasons. I was undiagnosed through college and used a variety of techniques including exercise to focus on school work.
I prefer tactile sports such as football and rugby. Running is very boring, as are repetitive sports like throwing (I threw hammer and disc). Softball was always too slow paced for me. I'd be caught staring into space in the outfield.
I think ADHD was not as big an issue when jobs/daily life involved more physical labor and tactile experiences. Nowadays most "important" jobs consist of sitting in front of a computer for eight hours. That doesn't do any favors for us ADHD folks. I know medication has made a world of difference for me. I don't think I'd be able to handle a 9-to-5 programming job without it.
How long have you been on medication? I've considered going back on medication, but my understanding is that many people build up tolerance to it very quickly.
I've found that kids with attention deficits (diagnosed or not) tend to be able to talk and focus better when they can move around. Try right now to describe something at the far side of the room without pushing your head or using your hands. Communication and interpretation is more than just verbal.
I have adhd and have noticed that some of my own behaviours fit this characterisation.
1) I typically pace when talking on the phone
2) In general, going for a walk is a really good way to clear my mind.
3) I will walk around a lot, and quickly, when I am anxious.
4) It is easier for me to sleep when there is rain or a fan on in my room. Any kind of white noise.
5) When I need to think about something particularly abstract, I will take a shower. Going through the routines of cleaning my hair, using soap etc, all while having the physical stimulation of water falling on my back, helps to get me in a very focused and 'zen' state.
The results of this study also show that the GC group has a performance that is 42% better than the GC-EF group. These data seem indicate that after an intense physical exercise, people without ADHD show impairment in attention performance.
This is the more interesting finding to me and conflicts with my personal experience. Maybe I just haven't been diagnosed for ADHD yet? However if it is true then this raises an interesting problem. Exercise is no longer a universal booster - you have to be damn sure that you're deep in ADHD, because if you're 40% ADHD and 60% normal, then exercise actually does more harm than good, according to the results of this study.
In general, this study seems very limited in scope and participant count. A worthwhile study for sure, but I think it warrants additional research above anything else, and nothing conclusive should be taken from it.
I'd rather ignore this and just concentrate on the confirmation bias provided by the conclusion. In other news, I'm pretty sure I have ADHD.
No seriously. Having been diagnosed with ADHD years ago, I found the conclusion fantastic and confirming, and then parent's point stress inducing. I'm hoping I'm at least 51% ADHD.
My personal experience [long term volunteer with kids groups, as a child and as a parent] has been that most younger kids (<11) can't sit still for long.
I sat next to a lad in an informal setting recently (watching a martial arts class), his mother kept nagging him to sit still, not make a noise, etc.. I felt so sorry for him, he could easily have stood at the side and tried to mimic the older childrens movements, or just danced around for a bit, or played a game with his mum. When she told him off for raspberrying I really wanted to start just to show it wasn't inappropriate (it wasn't a quiet segment of the class); social inhibition prevented me. I find that my kids primary school teachers have a similar attitude, they're all female, they seem particularly bothered by some types of "unruly" behaviour which is primarily from the boys. Is there a biological divide between the sexes here too? [On the basis of the above linked study abstract, do more boys have ADHD than girls, is it a spectrum disorder?]
When I pick up my youngest (5-6yo) from school the boys are almost all [always] playing chase around the playground whilst the girls are almost all [always] chatting quietly and standing with their parents (mainly mothers). Mothers of boys seem to tell the boys off for running around, whilst the [far fewer] dads do not.
Interesting -- this study referenced another which focused on the effects of color on individuals with and without ADHD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21854630/). The game was designed for and taken from study for use in this one -- the results were nearly the same. The other study came back with similar results due to the structure of the game favoring ADHD individuals for level 1 and favoring individuals without ADHD for level 2.
The results in the original study were nearly the same proportionally and the game was found to favor the performance of an individual with ADHD.
The linked study, in fact, goes on to misrepresent the study it references in stating it was conducted "to quantify the performance of people with ADHD characteristics," when in fact the study stated it was conducted to describe "the development and the testing of a virtual environment that is capable to quantify the influence of red-green versus blue-yellow colour stimuli on the performance of people."
The referenced study concluded: "The game proved to be a user-friendly tool capable to detect and quantify the influence of color on the performance of people executing tasks that require attention and showed to be attractive for people with ADHD"
Physical exercise is generally repetitive,boring and requires discipline to stick to.
It could be that forcing someone to overrule their impulses for a period of time might be the solution, rather than the exercise itself.
I would ask for a control group who are forced to do some boring, repetitive activity without physical exertion like meditation and see if the results are mirrored.
I wonder if learning music would help too. I think it could require much more discipline than doing sports. I have done swimming (which really falls in the "repetitive, boring" category of sports) and played the cello as a kid. I don't know if I have ADHD though, it's much less diagnosed here in Hungary than in the US (I personally know nobody diagnosed with it).
Wow it's like we're from different planets. I'd never describe exercise as "repetitive, boring and requires discipline". For me it's an urge and it's fun to do.
Depends on how much you are into it, and the type of exercise
Running in a treadmill is very different from running into a park, for example. Or where you have to overcome different hurdles and the situation changes every minute.
People usually think lifting weights is boring, I disagree. It is boring if you do it mindlessly and with low weights compared to your 1RM
Unmedicated, regularly attending school, able to focus for at least five minutes on a videogame, and:
> volunteers with notably good grades in all subjects, without reports about behavior problems and a good social life at school and at home.
That seems like a relatively mild case of ADHD.
[EDIT: Quote applies to control group, as pointed out by andreasvc. The first three points appear to still stand.]
I'm also wondering how the resulting GC and GE values from "Performance of groups in the whole game" figure are so different, considering that part of the selection process was being able to complete the level in 600 seconds, ±5%.
On a side note, this was very interesting:
> These data seem indicate that after an intense physical exercise, people without ADHD show impairment in attention performance.
I definitely had problems with ADHD, and still do to some extent. I was listening to a book, The Sports Gene, and the touched on exercise and attention deficit. A proposed theory is that in the attention deficit brain you don't have enough dopamine. Exercise produces the dopamine you need to get to "normal". Therefore, exercise for some people is very rewarding and helps them out a lot. In other individuals who already have normal levels of dopamine it is a very "meh" experience for them, maybe even counter productive. They don't get the boost of dopamine as strongly since they already had "enough" to function well. And, since they had to endure, potentially higher, cognitive load to do the exercise its a net negative for them. Anyway, I don't know if this mechanism explains all of it, but anecdotally this matches extremely well with my experience.
Later in life I have come to rely on routine physical exercise as it keeps me on an even keel and productive. Caffeine and Ritalin both just made me go into the zone just the same way hard exercise does. I find that if I do not exercise hard and regular I have a hard time staying productive and I might seek towards other dopamine producing behaviors (Alcohol, junk foods). I have found a middle ground of moderate exercise, but it is never as fulfilling as being full tilt into a training cycle.
edit: Found a quote from the author of The Sports Gene:
"Here at Axon Sports, we talk a lot about the brain’s role in playing sports. From vision to perception to decision making to emotions, the brain plays a critical role in sports success. What have we learned about neurogenetics that can influence an athlete’s performance from a cognitive perspective?
DE: One of the most surprising things I learned in my reporting was that scientists know quite well that not only does the dopamine system in the brain—which is involved in the sense of pleasure and reward—respond to physical activity, but it can also drive physical activity.
One of the scientists I quote in the book suggests that this may be why very active children who take Ritalin, which alters dopamine levels, suddenly have less drive to move around. That’s precisely what he sees when he gives Ritalin to the rodents he breeds for high voluntary running, anyway. And it appears that different versions of genes involved in the dopamine system influence the drive to be active. (Interestingly, native populations that are nomadic and that migrate long distances tend to have a higher prevalence of a particular dopamine receptor gene; the same one that predisposes people to ADHD. I discuss in the book the possible link.) "
For 2 months now, an alarm clock program alerts me every hour to do 1-2 minutes of quick but high intensity exercises. That's every hour. The benefits are amazing. I'm amazed at how many of my problems went away. I now get to sleep on time, wake up feeling rested, do not toss and turn during sleep, have a healthy appetite, gained muscle, hair loss stopped, and I cut down on procrastinating and my focus has drastically increased. Who knows how many pills I would have been prescribed had I told my doctor about my problems.
I saw most results within 24 hours, others after only 4 days.
Would be interesting to know how long the effect lasts, e.g. will 1h, 12h or 24h between the physical exercise and the test make a difference.
If it's say ~8 hours, then scheduling gym classes in the beginning of school days may help these children. If it's 1h it won't matter much, as long as gym isn't at the end of a school day.
In countries that do calisthenics at the start of the school day are there less problems with hyperactivity, and diagnosed disorders with that symptom?
Exercise helps a ton with depression too. And probably anxiety, though I don't have any direct experience.
I think it's no exaggeration to say that richer countries have been experiencing a rise in mental health issues, and that is in a large part, although not entirely, due to sedentary lifestyles.
> When only high-quality trials were included, exercise had only a small effect on mood that was not statistically significant.
> Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression.
> Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies.
> Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies.
> The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive.
> Attendance rates for exercise treatments ranged from 50% to 100%.
> The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life is inconclusive.
You say
> I think it's no exaggeration to say that richer countries have been experiencing a rise in mental health issues, and that is in a large part, although not entirely, due to sedentary lifestyles.
What makes you think this? Plenty of very active people suffer depression and anxiety. There are a couple of sports people who have talked about their depression. You may have the causal link reversed - depression lowers ability to do stuff, and so depression causes inactivity. That's at least plausible.
Exercise has had a massive positive impact on my depression. For anyone suffering from depression, please check out my http://controlyourmindset.com/1 blog where I review the destroy depression system. Written by a former depression & PTSD sufferer, it teaches 7 natural steps which helped to eliminate depression from my life as well as many others and the success rate is very high.
I've never been diagnosed with ADHD but im pretty sure im on the spectrum. Did some Insanity this morning with the wife and noticed how much it enabled me to focus afterward and how it mitigated my desire for a drink, which I use for the same effect. I highly recommend regular physical exercise.
As I get older, I'm definitely beginning to notice some ADHD symptoms (inability to concentrate at work, can't fall asleep without some kind of white noise, don't know what to do with myself at home after work, etc). I'm also discovering that the only things that help to center me are exercise and coffee.
Look how poorly GC-EF performed relative to the other groups in absolute terms. There's visually a much larger difference in concentration for those without ADHD, but who exercised than those that didn't exercise.
If we were to focus on the largest difference of effect shouldn't our conclusion be, 'Intense exercise can make the attention of people without ADHD worse than those with ADHD'?
This is what the authors say, "The results of this study also show that the GC group has a performance that is 42% better than the GC-EF group. These data seem indicate that after an intense physical exercise, people without ADHD show impairment in attention performance. However, this hypothesis requires further studies, which include the assessment of the duration of this effect."
Interesting methodology. I've used John J. Ratey's 2008 book Spark: Revolutionary New Science of Exercise & the Brain to regularly remind myself, for my own health, of numerous ways exercise has been demonstrated to help mental health including its place in my anxiety and depression toolbox.
Anecdotal : I have diagnosed ADD and started lifting (starting strength) some month ago. At first I felt some benefits, I would say almost the same feeling as with Ritalin, but it's almost already gone by now.
I take it you're predominantly inattentive (you omit the letter H). I see on the ADHD web sites they always advocate exercise, and I dismiss it out of hand every time as something I don't think would apply to me. I tend to think of the typical /r/ADHDer as being quite different from me, and not someone that I would even like, really.
So you're saying that that stuff applies for inattentives too?
They had potential volunteers play PoP for 5 min as part of a screening process, to select individuals that wouldn't have problems playing a similar videogame. The actual game they used was called "Raiders of the Lost Treasure", cited as:
11. Silva AP, Frère AF Virtual environment to quantify the influence of colour stimuli on the performance of tasks requiring attention. Biomed Eng Online. 2011; 10:74 doi: 10.1186/1475-925X-10-7421854630
I think this is because blood moving at higher speeds and pressure gets nutrients to cells that don't always get all the nutrients they need. And it also removes waste products better, like a power washer removes dirt from your car better than just pouring water over it.
While this study agrees with everything I know from anecdotal evidence, it's not an enormous sample size. Two groups of 28 people each doesn't provide an enormous amount of statistical evidence.
For my ADHD a combination of ritalin, a LOT of sport (martial arts) and playing the piano did wonders. About a year of the sport and I've managed to lower my dose by about 50%.
[+] [-] rlonstein|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lloeki|11 years ago|reply
I was lucky enough to discover a few sports (snowboarding, rollerskating, climbing) at the right time i my life that managed, unbeknownst to me, to get me through the parts of life where I needed the most focus (incl. my degree). Things went downhill when I started to work and got a car, which dramatically reduced my physical activity, up until I picked myself up and went running, then skateboarding. This changed my quality of life on so many levels: although I still get both periods of numbness and hyperfocus, the positive feedback loops are much more frequent and negative feedback loops much less so. I still have to take great conscious care about not exerting (physically or mentally) myself too much because there seems to be no warning telling me "hey this is too much" and I regularly wear myself out. Still, I now have control over my life, but the fact that all of this I had to find myself early in my 30s and still get scorned at to this day is terrible: how many are being cast away as either unruly or lazy and left to their own devices?
[+] [-] leoh|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kendallpark|11 years ago|reply
I prefer tactile sports such as football and rugby. Running is very boring, as are repetitive sports like throwing (I threw hammer and disc). Softball was always too slow paced for me. I'd be caught staring into space in the outfield.
I think ADHD was not as big an issue when jobs/daily life involved more physical labor and tactile experiences. Nowadays most "important" jobs consist of sitting in front of a computer for eight hours. That doesn't do any favors for us ADHD folks. I know medication has made a world of difference for me. I don't think I'd be able to handle a 9-to-5 programming job without it.
[+] [-] aidenn0|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] late2part|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hgibbs|11 years ago|reply
1) I typically pace when talking on the phone
2) In general, going for a walk is a really good way to clear my mind.
3) I will walk around a lot, and quickly, when I am anxious.
4) It is easier for me to sleep when there is rain or a fan on in my room. Any kind of white noise.
5) When I need to think about something particularly abstract, I will take a shower. Going through the routines of cleaning my hair, using soap etc, all while having the physical stimulation of water falling on my back, helps to get me in a very focused and 'zen' state.
[+] [-] jMyles|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plaguuuuuu|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Strom|11 years ago|reply
This is the more interesting finding to me and conflicts with my personal experience. Maybe I just haven't been diagnosed for ADHD yet? However if it is true then this raises an interesting problem. Exercise is no longer a universal booster - you have to be damn sure that you're deep in ADHD, because if you're 40% ADHD and 60% normal, then exercise actually does more harm than good, according to the results of this study.
In general, this study seems very limited in scope and participant count. A worthwhile study for sure, but I think it warrants additional research above anything else, and nothing conclusive should be taken from it.
[+] [-] themartorana|11 years ago|reply
No seriously. Having been diagnosed with ADHD years ago, I found the conclusion fantastic and confirming, and then parent's point stress inducing. I'm hoping I'm at least 51% ADHD.
[+] [-] netcraft|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbhjpbhj|11 years ago|reply
I sat next to a lad in an informal setting recently (watching a martial arts class), his mother kept nagging him to sit still, not make a noise, etc.. I felt so sorry for him, he could easily have stood at the side and tried to mimic the older childrens movements, or just danced around for a bit, or played a game with his mum. When she told him off for raspberrying I really wanted to start just to show it wasn't inappropriate (it wasn't a quiet segment of the class); social inhibition prevented me. I find that my kids primary school teachers have a similar attitude, they're all female, they seem particularly bothered by some types of "unruly" behaviour which is primarily from the boys. Is there a biological divide between the sexes here too? [On the basis of the above linked study abstract, do more boys have ADHD than girls, is it a spectrum disorder?]
When I pick up my youngest (5-6yo) from school the boys are almost all [always] playing chase around the playground whilst the girls are almost all [always] chatting quietly and standing with their parents (mainly mothers). Mothers of boys seem to tell the boys off for running around, whilst the [far fewer] dads do not.
[+] [-] rjshayes|11 years ago|reply
The results in the original study were nearly the same proportionally and the game was found to favor the performance of an individual with ADHD.
The linked study, in fact, goes on to misrepresent the study it references in stating it was conducted "to quantify the performance of people with ADHD characteristics," when in fact the study stated it was conducted to describe "the development and the testing of a virtual environment that is capable to quantify the influence of red-green versus blue-yellow colour stimuli on the performance of people."
The referenced study concluded: "The game proved to be a user-friendly tool capable to detect and quantify the influence of color on the performance of people executing tasks that require attention and showed to be attractive for people with ADHD"
[+] [-] schalab|11 years ago|reply
It could be that forcing someone to overrule their impulses for a period of time might be the solution, rather than the exercise itself.
I would ask for a control group who are forced to do some boring, repetitive activity without physical exertion like meditation and see if the results are mirrored.
[+] [-] leni536|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mse11028|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lucaspiller|11 years ago|reply
http://m.ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.short
(Free link: http://www.freemeditation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/adh...)
[+] [-] raverbashing|11 years ago|reply
Depends on how much you are into it, and the type of exercise
Running in a treadmill is very different from running into a park, for example. Or where you have to overcome different hurdles and the situation changes every minute.
People usually think lifting weights is boring, I disagree. It is boring if you do it mindlessly and with low weights compared to your 1RM
[+] [-] falcolas|11 years ago|reply
> volunteers with notably good grades in all subjects, without reports about behavior problems and a good social life at school and at home.
That seems like a relatively mild case of ADHD.
[EDIT: Quote applies to control group, as pointed out by andreasvc. The first three points appear to still stand.]
I'm also wondering how the resulting GC and GE values from "Performance of groups in the whole game" figure are so different, considering that part of the selection process was being able to complete the level in 600 seconds, ±5%.
On a side note, this was very interesting:
> These data seem indicate that after an intense physical exercise, people without ADHD show impairment in attention performance.
[+] [-] bitexploder|11 years ago|reply
Later in life I have come to rely on routine physical exercise as it keeps me on an even keel and productive. Caffeine and Ritalin both just made me go into the zone just the same way hard exercise does. I find that if I do not exercise hard and regular I have a hard time staying productive and I might seek towards other dopamine producing behaviors (Alcohol, junk foods). I have found a middle ground of moderate exercise, but it is never as fulfilling as being full tilt into a training cycle.
edit: Found a quote from the author of The Sports Gene:
"Here at Axon Sports, we talk a lot about the brain’s role in playing sports. From vision to perception to decision making to emotions, the brain plays a critical role in sports success. What have we learned about neurogenetics that can influence an athlete’s performance from a cognitive perspective?
DE: One of the most surprising things I learned in my reporting was that scientists know quite well that not only does the dopamine system in the brain—which is involved in the sense of pleasure and reward—respond to physical activity, but it can also drive physical activity.
One of the scientists I quote in the book suggests that this may be why very active children who take Ritalin, which alters dopamine levels, suddenly have less drive to move around. That’s precisely what he sees when he gives Ritalin to the rodents he breeds for high voluntary running, anyway. And it appears that different versions of genes involved in the dopamine system influence the drive to be active. (Interestingly, native populations that are nomadic and that migrate long distances tend to have a higher prevalence of a particular dopamine receptor gene; the same one that predisposes people to ADHD. I discuss in the book the possible link.) "
[+] [-] andreasvc|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ChrisNorstrom|11 years ago|reply
I saw most results within 24 hours, others after only 4 days.
[+] [-] lucaspiller|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dasil003|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sandstrom|11 years ago|reply
If it's say ~8 hours, then scheduling gym classes in the beginning of school days may help these children. If it's 1h it won't matter much, as long as gym isn't at the end of a school day.
[+] [-] pbhjpbhj|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chubot|11 years ago|reply
I think it's no exaggeration to say that richer countries have been experiencing a rise in mental health issues, and that is in a large part, although not entirely, due to sedentary lifestyles.
[+] [-] DanBC|11 years ago|reply
It probably doesn't.
http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre...
> When only high-quality trials were included, exercise had only a small effect on mood that was not statistically significant.
> Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression.
> Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies.
> Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies.
> The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive.
> Attendance rates for exercise treatments ranged from 50% to 100%.
> The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life is inconclusive.
You say
> I think it's no exaggeration to say that richer countries have been experiencing a rise in mental health issues, and that is in a large part, although not entirely, due to sedentary lifestyles.
What makes you think this? Plenty of very active people suffer depression and anxiety. There are a couple of sports people who have talked about their depression. You may have the causal link reversed - depression lowers ability to do stuff, and so depression causes inactivity. That's at least plausible.
[+] [-] RobertoLong|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aswanson|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ocerge|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RA_Fisher|11 years ago|reply
GE = w/ ADHD GE-EF = w/ ADHD and exercise
GC = w/o ADHD GC-EF = w/o ADHD and exercise
Look how poorly GC-EF performed relative to the other groups in absolute terms. There's visually a much larger difference in concentration for those without ADHD, but who exercised than those that didn't exercise.
If we were to focus on the largest difference of effect shouldn't our conclusion be, 'Intense exercise can make the attention of people without ADHD worse than those with ADHD'?
This is what the authors say, "The results of this study also show that the GC group has a performance that is 42% better than the GC-EF group. These data seem indicate that after an intense physical exercise, people without ADHD show impairment in attention performance. However, this hypothesis requires further studies, which include the assessment of the duration of this effect."
Hmmm ..., color me a skeptical statistician.
[+] [-] lloydde|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] conradfr|11 years ago|reply
I should do more cardio to see if it's the same.
[+] [-] smorrow|11 years ago|reply
So you're saying that that stuff applies for inattentives too?
[+] [-] kevinwang|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cshimmin|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stretchwithme|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rkangel|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _bdog|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] henryaj|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cel1ne|11 years ago|reply