My first day at SpaceX I ran into a friend. I asked him how he was doing and he said he just had a kid. "How old is she now?" "Oh no, like, my wife just gave birth an hour ago."
The guy was working through the birth of his first born. The story continued for months afterwards and it's not a good one.
That and many other stories are what led me to quit. I took the summer off and didn't work. I hung out with my dog and got my pilot's license. A few months later my dog unexpectedly passed away one night. I was so, so happy I spent the last months of his life with him instead of at SpaceX.
I get working on big goals, I get working hard. I don't get throwing away everything else. It's not just your life it's the people who need a father and a friend.
I interviewed at a big company (unrelated to Mr. Musk) about a decade ago. The team was in a little satellite office away from headquarters, and we headed back to headquarters for lunch. As we walked into the cafe, the guy from the team who took me pointed to an office building next door and said something to the effect of, "Our office used to be right in there. It was so convenient! I could be at work, come down and grab dinner, then go right back up to work."
And that was the moment I knew I would decline their offer.
Some people really seem to go for that stuff, though.
>> I get working on big goals, I get working hard. I don't get throwing away everything else. It's not just your life it's the people who need a father and a friend.
Agreed.
The quote which finally got me to realize my family was more important than my job:
"When you’re gone would you rather have your gravestone say, ‘He never missed a meeting.’ Or one that said, ‘He was a great father'."
Yea, I really enjoy programming but I have yet to be able to come to terms with this idea that if I'd like to be a professional software engineer I have to want to be the world's saving grace rockstar ninja programmer.
Isn't it enough to want to wake up refreshed every day, put in a good solid 6-7 hours of professional quality engineering work, and then have the time and energy to want to perform all of the other duties and joys to be found in life?
The wording the article uses is offensive. A dad isn't in the delivery room just to "witness" the birth, or at least he shouldn't be. He's there to support the mother, advocate for her, help her make decisions regarding how the birth goes, support the newborn baby, advocate for him or her, and (maybe) make very difficult medical decisions if either is compromised.
Most of my children were born without a lot of complications, and I didn't have to do much decision-making or advocacy, just support my wife, talk to her, hold her hand, rub her back, cut the cord, take pictures, hold the baby, and all that. My baby girl responded immediately to my voice in a way that she didn't respond to other voices, because she had heard my voice a lot while she was in the womb.
My most recent turned into a difficult birth, with both mother and baby very sick with a rare infection, and an emergency C-section, and then with my newborn son in the hospital for ten days of IV antibiotics. Because my wife was in recovery I had to immediately provide "kangaroo care" -- that is, skin to skin contact with my newborn son, to help him adapt. Also, to hold him as much as possible in the neonatal ICU, while he had IVs stuck in and medication pumped in. My wife was not very mobile at that point.
Once she was a little more mobile the friends we had tapped to watch our other kids were all tapped out and so I had to be a stay-at-home dad for them.
Parenting responsibilities and spouse responsibilities are not like work responsibilities. They just aren't. Anyone who says or behaves otherwise is a sociopath.
Musk even scolded a Tesla employee who missed an event to witness the birth of his child
If true, that diminishes my respect for Elon just a touch. I mean, OK, I get it... when you're trying to change the world, you want passion, you want commitment, etc. Fine. But here's the thing: in the end, you're just as dead either way. Change the world, you're still dead. Don't change the world: You're dead. The only thing that really counts in many ways (if such a thing can be said to even exist) is what happens "between the goalposts" so to speak.
If I were working for Elon and he said something like that to me, I'm pretty sure my answer would be "bugger off". You only get to witness the birth of a child once, ya know?
It's also important to remember that, as a founder, you'll never find people who are exactly as committed to your project and your ideals as you are. You just can't. It will always be your baby, and it will always hold significance to you that it will never hold for anyone else in the world. You may find people who are committed and passionate, but they still won't be you. To expect otherwise is folly.
If this statement is true and in the proper context (who knows), this all but kills my respect for Musk. It basically puts him at the same level as Jobs, Ellison and others who are just egotistical, sociopathic assholes.
Look, Musk /is/ out to change the world. His employees might not be, at least to the degree and level as he is. And, if they are, they'll likely not be remembered along with Musk. There is often only one, maybe two names attached to great achievements. If I'm an employee at a company like that (and I have been, and I have killed myself with long hours making someone else rich when I was young and dumb, before I realized what it was all about), I would do my job very, very well and make sure I have the balance in life /I/ want.
You don't want me to see the birth of my child? Sorry, fuck off. It's my time, my life, my family, my kid. And we aren't talking about a tee-ball game. This is the BIRTH. We aren't talking about kindergarten parent-teacher conferences. This is the birth, where you support your wife and see your child for the first time.
And, sadly, Musk probably doesn't realize because he is so wrapped up in his own world, but having a child IS changing the world for a few folks. But, ya know, sociopaths don't care about other people, just themselves.
I'm continually saddened that we put people on pedestals who so clearly aren't deserving of it. Musk is just another example of someone who /really/ is out for theirs and want to get it any way possible. I think we all thought, or maybe hoped, he was different. I don't know that he is.
>You only get to witness the birth of a child once
You know what else? Though it's rare, the spouse is needed to make important decisions in the event of some unplanned problem and the incapacitation of the mother.
I'm a fan of Musk and his companies. I own one of his cars (as far as they can be called "his," obviously there are tons of people involved) and it's even better than all the "best car in the world!" people say. I follow every SpaceX launch and am eager to see them pull off their stage recovery attempts soon.
That said, this doesn't surprise me at all. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy I'd want to work for. My admiration is about vision and execution, not personal relationships. He may well be a dick, and it would be no shock if he is.
Maybe this is what it takes to do big things. Maybe it's entirely unnecessary. Either way it reminds me a bit of Steve Jobs, who was undeniably a massive jerk, but who got things done.
I forget exactly what my point was here. I guess it's just that this is a bit of a "water is wet" story mixed in with celebrity gossip. It's highly important for the people involved but not terribly relevant for the rest of us.
Jobs made fancy white electronic devices - he just sold a lot of them - to justify rude behavior with something that trivial simply doesn't seem right to me.
That's over the line if it's true in my opinion. But again, all we have here is some anecdotal quotes that might be really out of context. It could just be just on a status update meeting on Monday 10am and the guy who's responsible for a critical component did not show up and no one knows why.
From Justine Musk, Elon Musk's wife during those times:
"Extreme success results from an extreme personality and comes at the cost of many other things. Extreme success is different from what I suppose you could just consider 'success', so know that you don't have to be Richard or Elon to be affluent and accomplished and maintain a great lifestyle. Your odds of happiness are better that way. But if you're extreme, you must be what you are, which means that happiness is more or less beside the point."
This is a thought I've been having myself a lot lately. None of the successes I have actually leave me happier at the end of the day, they just kind of exist. Trying to balance success with happiness is a curious dilemma since to so many people the two are intertwined.
Very interesting read though- I appreciate you linking it here.
If true -- that is, Musk was criticizing an employee specifically for being at their child's birth instead of work -- then he's an ass, and he's wrong. I would expect somebody with 5 children would know better.
Every man or woman put on a pedestal will inevitably disappoint their admirers in some regard. Steve Jobs, despite his skill at pushing Apple into a highly profitable and desirable direction, appears from most accounts to be a horrid, miserable human being. Same with every politician and celebrity.
I doubt this will change much; Musk's goals and reputation hinge on technical delivery, not interpersonal skills.
I don't care about Musk either way, so I doubt this is too biased in his favor, but I don't think many people would knowingly say something like the phrase in the article to someone who went to his child's birth. I consider it more likely that Musk didn't know that the person was missing because of the birth, or something similar, than that someone would say "yeah this company event is more important than your child being born".
I tend to agree. Without much information on the other side, it's hard to figure out exactly what the context was. I doubt the employee was expected to miss the actual birth but was expected to return to the event/office, perhaps sooner than other employers might expect.
A good number of "world changers" prioritize their work over everything else in their lives, including themselves and the people around them. They expect their team to do nothing less, so if he did say that, I'm not exactly surprised.
This wouldn't work for me, and I'd imagine it wouldn't work for a lot of people who prioritize their families over whatever project they may be working on. I still like Musk and the things he does, but I have no desire to work for him if that means working 24/7 like he does.
The article makes it sound like "That is no excuse" is referring to taking time off work to see your child born - in other words, there is nothing that could excuse someone taking off time for that. It's possible that he's merely saying that taking time off for something so important is no excuse for failing to request the time off with HR, failing to ensure that a different team member could be present in a meeting, or something along those lines - in other words, not that taking time off for important family reasons isn't OK, but rather that things still need to be handled properly even for things as important as taking time off to be with your partner while she was giving birth. Something like that might not be the kindest thing to do, but I can at least understand the logic behind it.
...just when you start think there might be someone in Silicon Valley who is worth working for and learning from... it turns out he is also a flawed human being who can and will wreak havoc on this employees' personal lives.
If this is true, and not taken out of context, Musk has some serious soul searching to do.
While it's not unbiased, his ex-wife's article on their marriage and this comment makes me think Musk has NPD. I was going to say he's a psychopath, but he has exhibited no signs of antisocial disorder. Rather, he's exhibited a lack of empathy and illusions of grandeur.
Seriously, it's more than possible to achieve great things while having an enriching family life. It's about involving your family in your dreams while working on having healthy relationships. It's possible, it takes a lot of work, but most worthy things are.
Before anybody jumps to conclusions about Musk, we need to first know the source is accurate and the email is real, and also we need to know the context of the email.
It could be very well that the employee failed to communicate the fact his wife may go into labor prior to the event, and with no heads up of any kind, he gave the excuse after missing the event. In which case, I completely agree with Musk, if any employee is expecting to be out soon, they need to make it known. And let's face it...you have quite a few months notice on when the baby is due.
Yes, you have a rough idea when babies are due. My middle child was born 5 weeks early, however. My last was born 3 weeks early. I've had employees send me a note a day after saying 'sorry, baby came early. more later'.
If you have any reaction other than "oh, ok, hope everyone is healthy", you are probably a terrible human being.
"And let's face it...you have quite a few months notice on when the baby is due."
This simply is not true! You should understand that the "due date" is a distribution in normal childbirth. Even for cesarian sections, which are scheduled, things can go awry.
In fact the second case is precisely what happened to my wife. She still had about 15 days to her scheduled cesarian when she visited the hospital for a routine checkup, during which they found that her blood pressure was too high and presented a mortal danger to the baby. They took her to delivery room immediately. She just had enough time to call me at work, I rushed like a madmen, but due to my long commute I still wan't there when our son was delivered.
"It could be very well that the employee failed to communicate the fact his wife may go into labor prior to the event, and with no heads up of any kind, he gave the excuse after missing the event."
That's an excellent point that I had not considered. When my wife & I had a due date for both our children, I put everybody at work on notice about my possible lack of availability. That's just how I work. But it's entirely possible that the individual in question either flaked out completely or just spaced out about the logistics of the matter.
There are definitely some puzzle pieces missing from the story.
If this is true it's a little bit sad. If a person isn't present in the most important moments of a family is "changing the world" of the family for worse and not for better.
> is "changing the world" of the family for worse and not for better
Hypothetical counterexample: What if he were busy curing cancer and thus making sure that the future world of that very family would be a nicer place, one where the children would never have to experience that disease?
I don't know how people here are deffending this kind of attitude. If you decide to bring another person to this planet, you have a huge responsibility. You can balance things out and work a lot and have a family. But if you really want to work 23 hours a day without paying proper attention to your family, for the sake of your children and spouse, just don't form a family. The damage you'll do, is irreversible.
You can't have it all in life... And one has to make hard choices.
That "23 hours a day" part is what strikes me as suspect. Unless they're being hyperbolic--and it doesn't seem like that's what they're trying to do--then its not sustainable for anyone.
It seems that everyone praises the prioritization of family over work. The quote that's brought up goes like:
"When you’re gone would you rather have your gravestone say, ‘He never missed a meeting.’ Or one that said, ‘He was a great father'."
This supposes that the acceptable thing to do for any human being is to desire having a family and caring for your own kind. It also supposes that work can only be a succession a meaningless events.
I see another take on this. I see that some projects can be life projects. Some of those life projects can happen to be 'work'. Desiring the completion of a life project, as your mean to live your humanity, is as valid in my opinion, as the desire to fulfill your humanity through the experience of family.
When you look at someone like Elon Musk and criticize him for not caring about family, you criticize him for having a different set of priorities than yours. The argument is an appeal to emotion and some assumed higher truth. It's not valid. There's more than one way to focus your life. You don't have to focus on having and raising children. You might want to do that. Or not.
---
That said, it's pretty rude to expect other people to focus their life on a project instead of their families. However, I can understand that a leader desire that their company be formed of people likely focused and minded.
Whatever the truth of the matter I think this highlights a specific thing people should pay attention to when they choose their employer: different companies have different values and when considering joining, it's good to make sure those values are aligned with ones personal values. Having a strongly disaligned value base can lead to burnout and depression.
Tesla values seem to be in the extreme end of the spectrum. I am not saying that this is good or bad, just that they are not necessarily aligned with the values of all.
But all in all, having a car is pretty pointless if there is no-one to drive them. Hiring clever people and then hindering their pro-creation is not really helping the society as talented parents usually get talented children, and for children the most important time of their development is their first years. Screw those, and the person is considerably worse off. A healthy child might get well of and by a fancy Tesla in 30 years. I'm not saying slave laboring the father would make the infant a mental patient and a destitute, but discouraging healthy parenthood is hedging the bets towards worse outcomes.
The same argumentation can be said of space travel. What's the point of traveling to Mars unless the needs of future of the species are taken care of as well. This includes resources for nurture and care.
Imagine a world where that level of insensitivity was inextricably coupled with the sort of accomplishments he produces for humanity.
I'm not saying they are, but if asshole-ness and makes-awesomethings-ness were linked, would it be preferable for him to be "a nice guy" and not "a guy who drove plausible solutions to global online payments, solar power, electric cars, and space travel"?
Or would we rather have another nice guy that didn't do those things?
It's hard to imagine that anyone who continues to work for Elon Musk's companies right now doesn't have alternatives. So they're CHOOSING that, for whatever reason. Maybe they tolerate his behavior to be a part of what he does. But nobody is really trapped there without options.
Maybe (probably) it's possible to be nice and be awesome. But it's not important to me that Elon Musk is nice. If I have to pick between his creation and his compassion, I pick creation.
Father of two kids I will not trade the moment of my kids birth for anything in the world. As for Mr Elon Musk, go home... you are another psycho CEO from america crime corporate
[+] [-] stevecalifornia|11 years ago|reply
The guy was working through the birth of his first born. The story continued for months afterwards and it's not a good one.
That and many other stories are what led me to quit. I took the summer off and didn't work. I hung out with my dog and got my pilot's license. A few months later my dog unexpectedly passed away one night. I was so, so happy I spent the last months of his life with him instead of at SpaceX.
I get working on big goals, I get working hard. I don't get throwing away everything else. It's not just your life it's the people who need a father and a friend.
[+] [-] mikeash|11 years ago|reply
And that was the moment I knew I would decline their offer.
Some people really seem to go for that stuff, though.
[+] [-] at-fates-hands|11 years ago|reply
Agreed.
The quote which finally got me to realize my family was more important than my job:
"When you’re gone would you rather have your gravestone say, ‘He never missed a meeting.’ Or one that said, ‘He was a great father'."
[+] [-] codyb|11 years ago|reply
Isn't it enough to want to wake up refreshed every day, put in a good solid 6-7 hours of professional quality engineering work, and then have the time and energy to want to perform all of the other duties and joys to be found in life?
[+] [-] 6t6t6|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulrpotts|11 years ago|reply
Most of my children were born without a lot of complications, and I didn't have to do much decision-making or advocacy, just support my wife, talk to her, hold her hand, rub her back, cut the cord, take pictures, hold the baby, and all that. My baby girl responded immediately to my voice in a way that she didn't respond to other voices, because she had heard my voice a lot while she was in the womb.
My most recent turned into a difficult birth, with both mother and baby very sick with a rare infection, and an emergency C-section, and then with my newborn son in the hospital for ten days of IV antibiotics. Because my wife was in recovery I had to immediately provide "kangaroo care" -- that is, skin to skin contact with my newborn son, to help him adapt. Also, to hold him as much as possible in the neonatal ICU, while he had IVs stuck in and medication pumped in. My wife was not very mobile at that point.
Once she was a little more mobile the friends we had tapped to watch our other kids were all tapped out and so I had to be a stay-at-home dad for them.
Parenting responsibilities and spouse responsibilities are not like work responsibilities. They just aren't. Anyone who says or behaves otherwise is a sociopath.
[+] [-] sktrdie|11 years ago|reply
But I mean, surely the "witnessing" is important on its own, no?
[+] [-] mindcrime|11 years ago|reply
If true, that diminishes my respect for Elon just a touch. I mean, OK, I get it... when you're trying to change the world, you want passion, you want commitment, etc. Fine. But here's the thing: in the end, you're just as dead either way. Change the world, you're still dead. Don't change the world: You're dead. The only thing that really counts in many ways (if such a thing can be said to even exist) is what happens "between the goalposts" so to speak.
If I were working for Elon and he said something like that to me, I'm pretty sure my answer would be "bugger off". You only get to witness the birth of a child once, ya know?
It's also important to remember that, as a founder, you'll never find people who are exactly as committed to your project and your ideals as you are. You just can't. It will always be your baby, and it will always hold significance to you that it will never hold for anyone else in the world. You may find people who are committed and passionate, but they still won't be you. To expect otherwise is folly.
[+] [-] fingerprinter|11 years ago|reply
Look, Musk /is/ out to change the world. His employees might not be, at least to the degree and level as he is. And, if they are, they'll likely not be remembered along with Musk. There is often only one, maybe two names attached to great achievements. If I'm an employee at a company like that (and I have been, and I have killed myself with long hours making someone else rich when I was young and dumb, before I realized what it was all about), I would do my job very, very well and make sure I have the balance in life /I/ want.
You don't want me to see the birth of my child? Sorry, fuck off. It's my time, my life, my family, my kid. And we aren't talking about a tee-ball game. This is the BIRTH. We aren't talking about kindergarten parent-teacher conferences. This is the birth, where you support your wife and see your child for the first time.
And, sadly, Musk probably doesn't realize because he is so wrapped up in his own world, but having a child IS changing the world for a few folks. But, ya know, sociopaths don't care about other people, just themselves.
I'm continually saddened that we put people on pedestals who so clearly aren't deserving of it. Musk is just another example of someone who /really/ is out for theirs and want to get it any way possible. I think we all thought, or maybe hoped, he was different. I don't know that he is.
[+] [-] fnordfnordfnord|11 years ago|reply
You know what else? Though it's rare, the spouse is needed to make important decisions in the event of some unplanned problem and the incapacitation of the mother.
[+] [-] iamcurious|11 years ago|reply
You are way more generous than I am.
[+] [-] mikeash|11 years ago|reply
That said, this doesn't surprise me at all. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy I'd want to work for. My admiration is about vision and execution, not personal relationships. He may well be a dick, and it would be no shock if he is.
Maybe this is what it takes to do big things. Maybe it's entirely unnecessary. Either way it reminds me a bit of Steve Jobs, who was undeniably a massive jerk, but who got things done.
I forget exactly what my point was here. I guess it's just that this is a bit of a "water is wet" story mixed in with celebrity gossip. It's highly important for the people involved but not terribly relevant for the rest of us.
[+] [-] senorito|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boomzilla|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tna|11 years ago|reply
"Extreme success results from an extreme personality and comes at the cost of many other things. Extreme success is different from what I suppose you could just consider 'success', so know that you don't have to be Richard or Elon to be affluent and accomplished and maintain a great lifestyle. Your odds of happiness are better that way. But if you're extreme, you must be what you are, which means that happiness is more or less beside the point."
...continued at: http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-be-as-great-as-Bill-Gates-Ste... (answered by Justine herself)
[+] [-] Omniusaspirer|11 years ago|reply
Very interesting read though- I appreciate you linking it here.
[+] [-] MrZongle2|11 years ago|reply
Every man or woman put on a pedestal will inevitably disappoint their admirers in some regard. Steve Jobs, despite his skill at pushing Apple into a highly profitable and desirable direction, appears from most accounts to be a horrid, miserable human being. Same with every politician and celebrity.
I doubt this will change much; Musk's goals and reputation hinge on technical delivery, not interpersonal skills.
[+] [-] StavrosK|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] troisx|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbreit|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] run4yourlives2|11 years ago|reply
This wouldn't work for me, and I'd imagine it wouldn't work for a lot of people who prioritize their families over whatever project they may be working on. I still like Musk and the things he does, but I have no desire to work for him if that means working 24/7 like he does.
[+] [-] wordbank|11 years ago|reply
Ironically, world could change so much by everyone being kind and grateful to others. No invention or conquest can bring this kind of change.
[+] [-] cwyers|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sjm-lbm|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbreit|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lasky|11 years ago|reply
If this is true, and not taken out of context, Musk has some serious soul searching to do.
[+] [-] Delmania|11 years ago|reply
Seriously, it's more than possible to achieve great things while having an enriching family life. It's about involving your family in your dreams while working on having healthy relationships. It's possible, it takes a lot of work, but most worthy things are.
[+] [-] Cshelton|11 years ago|reply
It could be very well that the employee failed to communicate the fact his wife may go into labor prior to the event, and with no heads up of any kind, he gave the excuse after missing the event. In which case, I completely agree with Musk, if any employee is expecting to be out soon, they need to make it known. And let's face it...you have quite a few months notice on when the baby is due.
[+] [-] fingerprinter|11 years ago|reply
If you have any reaction other than "oh, ok, hope everyone is healthy", you are probably a terrible human being.
[+] [-] Jun8|11 years ago|reply
This simply is not true! You should understand that the "due date" is a distribution in normal childbirth. Even for cesarian sections, which are scheduled, things can go awry.
In fact the second case is precisely what happened to my wife. She still had about 15 days to her scheduled cesarian when she visited the hospital for a routine checkup, during which they found that her blood pressure was too high and presented a mortal danger to the baby. They took her to delivery room immediately. She just had enough time to call me at work, I rushed like a madmen, but due to my long commute I still wan't there when our son was delivered.
[+] [-] MrZongle2|11 years ago|reply
That's an excellent point that I had not considered. When my wife & I had a due date for both our children, I put everybody at work on notice about my possible lack of availability. That's just how I work. But it's entirely possible that the individual in question either flaked out completely or just spaced out about the logistics of the matter.
There are definitely some puzzle pieces missing from the story.
[+] [-] pmcpinto|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the8472|11 years ago|reply
Hypothetical counterexample: What if he were busy curing cancer and thus making sure that the future world of that very family would be a nicer place, one where the children would never have to experience that disease?
[+] [-] MrGando|11 years ago|reply
I don't know how people here are deffending this kind of attitude. If you decide to bring another person to this planet, you have a huge responsibility. You can balance things out and work a lot and have a family. But if you really want to work 23 hours a day without paying proper attention to your family, for the sake of your children and spouse, just don't form a family. The damage you'll do, is irreversible.
You can't have it all in life... And one has to make hard choices.
[+] [-] Zelphyr|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AYBABTME|11 years ago|reply
It seems that everyone praises the prioritization of family over work. The quote that's brought up goes like:
"When you’re gone would you rather have your gravestone say, ‘He never missed a meeting.’ Or one that said, ‘He was a great father'."
This supposes that the acceptable thing to do for any human being is to desire having a family and caring for your own kind. It also supposes that work can only be a succession a meaningless events.
I see another take on this. I see that some projects can be life projects. Some of those life projects can happen to be 'work'. Desiring the completion of a life project, as your mean to live your humanity, is as valid in my opinion, as the desire to fulfill your humanity through the experience of family.
When you look at someone like Elon Musk and criticize him for not caring about family, you criticize him for having a different set of priorities than yours. The argument is an appeal to emotion and some assumed higher truth. It's not valid. There's more than one way to focus your life. You don't have to focus on having and raising children. You might want to do that. Or not.
That said, it's pretty rude to expect other people to focus their life on a project instead of their families. However, I can understand that a leader desire that their company be formed of people likely focused and minded.[+] [-] fsloth|11 years ago|reply
Tesla values seem to be in the extreme end of the spectrum. I am not saying that this is good or bad, just that they are not necessarily aligned with the values of all.
But all in all, having a car is pretty pointless if there is no-one to drive them. Hiring clever people and then hindering their pro-creation is not really helping the society as talented parents usually get talented children, and for children the most important time of their development is their first years. Screw those, and the person is considerably worse off. A healthy child might get well of and by a fancy Tesla in 30 years. I'm not saying slave laboring the father would make the infant a mental patient and a destitute, but discouraging healthy parenthood is hedging the bets towards worse outcomes.
The same argumentation can be said of space travel. What's the point of traveling to Mars unless the needs of future of the species are taken care of as well. This includes resources for nurture and care.
[+] [-] ezl|11 years ago|reply
I'm not saying they are, but if asshole-ness and makes-awesomethings-ness were linked, would it be preferable for him to be "a nice guy" and not "a guy who drove plausible solutions to global online payments, solar power, electric cars, and space travel"?
Or would we rather have another nice guy that didn't do those things?
It's hard to imagine that anyone who continues to work for Elon Musk's companies right now doesn't have alternatives. So they're CHOOSING that, for whatever reason. Maybe they tolerate his behavior to be a part of what he does. But nobody is really trapped there without options.
Maybe (probably) it's possible to be nice and be awesome. But it's not important to me that Elon Musk is nice. If I have to pick between his creation and his compassion, I pick creation.
[+] [-] unknown|11 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] padrian2s|11 years ago|reply