I can't believe so many people see reclining as rude, it's the design of the seats. If the person in front of you reclines, recline your own seat.
This product is like covering up your neighbors reading light because it bothers you. It's not yours to turn on/off. Lack of space is part of air travel, if you can't fit your laptop on a tray that is reclined then pay for first class or get a smaller laptop.
Thank you! You pay for the seat, the space under the seat ahead of you, and the ability to recline. All of that space is rightfully yours. Everyone else on the flight pays for the same and is rightfully theirs. People who don't understand that need to re-evaluate why they are flying. Blocking someone from reclining, in my book at least is a sociopathic move.
There is worse behavior on planes of course. I was once on a flight where I put my backpack under the seat ahead of me and the woman sitting in that seat started kicking it. I firmly pointed out to her that there was a laptop and camera in the bag and that she needed to stop. She informed me that the space under her seat was hers and that I needed to move my bag. The dispute finally ended when she hit the call button and the attending flight attendant eventually had to have her removed from the plane.
By reclining your seat all the way back you're forcing the person behind you to recline his seat all the way back, which in turn forces the person behind the person behind you to recline his seat an so on, it's just not a very mindful thing to do because you're actively forcing your preferences on everyone else. I feel like reclining more than halfway through is only fair if there's nobody sitting behind you or if that person had already reclined his seat.
I don't think these are strict rules or anything, you are certainly entitled to do whatever you wish, it's really just a question of politeness.
> I can't believe so many people see reclining as rude, it's the design of the seats. If the person in front of you reclines, recline your own seat.
That the seat is designed to work in different positions has little to do with whether or not it is rude to use some of those positions. Rudeness is in general situational. An action that is fine under some circumstances can be rude in other circumstances.
For example, my home theater is designed to make very loud sounds. Are you going to argue that this means it can never by rude of me to listen at top volume?
My digestive system is designed to expel noxious gases. Do you think that justifies farting in crowded elevators?
I could rephrase your post as:
"I can't believe so many people see honking in your car as rude, it's the design of the car. If the person in front of you honks, just join in for a nice hullabaloo."
It's usually not that you can opt out of this. Would be cool though: left aisle: no reclining seats, right aisle: reclining seats. :)
It doesn't both me when people recline their seats, but I do wish there was a more reasonable limit on how fast people can recline. The number of times I see people slamming their seats back and almost breaking someone's laptop is ridiculous.
Reclining doesn't protect your knees, though it may provide additional space for your upper body. The fact that the design of the seat permits you to use it as a device to commit tortious battery on the person behind you doesn't make it okay to use it for that purpose.
I really love reclining. As a tall guy, it makes long flights significantly better. Albeit I usually fly in economy on budget airlines so can't usually recline far, but I'm still appreciative of what I get. It saddens me that people want to disrupt others and disable functionality that the seat/plane was engineered to have. Although I always recline very slowly to be least shocking to the person behind me and obviously not during meal time etc.
As a tall guy, I find that my knees are at most a couple of inches from the seat in front. When the person in front of me reclines and their chair hits my knees, it's clear that I'll be uncomfortable for the entire remainder of the flight. I don't recline; I judge people who do it in front of me as selfish, and I don't want to be hypocritical.
I'm not a tall person, but I also agree with you. It is very uncomfortable to go through a long flight on an upright seat.
I can not believe people think they have the prerogative to stop other people from reclining. It is intended functionality and we have certainly paid for that.
So far, thankfully I've never had a person in front of me, who would have decided to recline their seat. Although I'm mainly travelling with Ryanair, so I'm not even sure if that is possible on their planes. But for me, 1.94m tall, even a thought that someone would try to take away some of my space on plane is simply infuriating.
I have experienced this in buses and trains, on trains especially. There this can be tolerable, because there is a much more space (at least where I've experienced reclining), and people mostly have been very understanding and kind of afraid that someone from the back will start to shout on them.
In any case, it as well quite a sad thing, that whether there is enough space to be able to recline or isn't, we have a situation were we are unable to sort this out between ourselves.
Once I almost got my laptop crushed because the person sitting in front of me reclined their seat and it caught the laptop's screen (it was standing on the tray). If only I had this "knee defender" it wouldn't have been a problem. I mean, how is that guy supposed to know they shouldn't recline at this very moment? If they can't recline because of knee defender, they will ask me and I'll be able to save my laptop from danger.
Maybe you should just accept that using a laptop in economy is crazy to begin with. Read a book, use a tablet, enjoy the crappy in-flight, talk to your neighbour, or have snooze instead.
It's amazing how thoughtless and selfish some people are. I young woman in front of me had a child who was pretty disruptive, but for some time I was able to distract him and he eventually calmed down. As soon as he did the woman punched the recline button and literally slammed the seat down. If I had been using anything other than a netbook it would have been toast. And as a reasonably tall guy my knees certainly didn't appreciate it.
So, yes, reclining your seat is included in what you pay, you can even pay more to recline more your seat, and low-cost companies are known for having non-reclining seats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-cost_carrier).
Some European charter airlines (i.e. airlines that move people for package holidays) now have fixed "slimline" seats that can't recline and are incredibly uncomfortable.
We flew back from Turkey last year on a brand new Airbus with slimline seats and it was purgatory. I really hope this trend doesn't catch on with regular airlines.
I flew hundreds of times in EU, between different countries and using different airlines,and I have never ever been on a plane with reclining seats. It's mostly Airbuses A319/320 and Boeings 737-300 that I flew in, and none of them had adjustable seats.
Unfortunately the selected answer is meaningless. Quoting mine, which is below and has a higher score <grumble grumble>:
Such a list [of airlines] would not be meaningful. All airlines have wide rules to prohibit "tampering" with seats, with Knee Defenders or otherwise; you can improvise one with a well-sized bottle, after all. Those that point out the Knee Defender as banned are only making it explicit that this specific device is not allowed.
More to the point, if the passenger unable to recline complains, the flight attendants will insist that you stop using it.
Your answer is not an answer and should have been a comment instead.
Rejecting the premise of the question is very frustrating and causes some people to not bother with SE. At least leave a comment asking if they'd consider different types of answer, but otherwise just ignore the question.
Knee defenders are essential to me because I have long legs. But more importantly it protects my laptop. I've had an incident where the person in front of me suddenly reclined whilst I had my laptop on my tray table. The screen got stuck on the lever to lock the tray table and cracked under the pressure.
I usually just talk to the person in front of me to inform them that I'll use a laptop. Maybe I'm lucky but it's usually pretty easy to work it out.
I had never heard of Knee Defenders before today. I think it's fairly rude to just install them.
Do you also consider it essential to put your belongings under the seats adjacent to you?
I would have more sympathy for your position if I thought it was likely that you investigated the knee room and reclining policy prior to purchasing a ticket.
The claims are that it is all about safety and fairness and blah blah blah. Does anybody saying this honestly believe that 7 footers just wing it? Why should the world be different for the 6'2" than for the 7'1"?
I am less worried about the needs of the person in front of me reclining than the chances of the morbidly obese person I get next to me and then am told I have to keep the armrest up because the other person doesn't fit.
Hence, put me next to the emergency exit which on some planes seems to have more room in front too
[+] [-] watty|10 years ago|reply
This product is like covering up your neighbors reading light because it bothers you. It's not yours to turn on/off. Lack of space is part of air travel, if you can't fit your laptop on a tray that is reclined then pay for first class or get a smaller laptop.
[+] [-] patcheudor|10 years ago|reply
There is worse behavior on planes of course. I was once on a flight where I put my backpack under the seat ahead of me and the woman sitting in that seat started kicking it. I firmly pointed out to her that there was a laptop and camera in the bag and that she needed to stop. She informed me that the space under her seat was hers and that I needed to move my bag. The dispute finally ended when she hit the call button and the attending flight attendant eventually had to have her removed from the plane.
[+] [-] DrJokepu|10 years ago|reply
I don't think these are strict rules or anything, you are certainly entitled to do whatever you wish, it's really just a question of politeness.
[+] [-] tzs|10 years ago|reply
That the seat is designed to work in different positions has little to do with whether or not it is rude to use some of those positions. Rudeness is in general situational. An action that is fine under some circumstances can be rude in other circumstances.
For example, my home theater is designed to make very loud sounds. Are you going to argue that this means it can never by rude of me to listen at top volume?
My digestive system is designed to expel noxious gases. Do you think that justifies farting in crowded elevators?
[+] [-] wink|10 years ago|reply
It's usually not that you can opt out of this. Would be cool though: left aisle: no reclining seats, right aisle: reclining seats. :)
[+] [-] PretzelPirate|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonwriter|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] butwhy|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CHY872|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gusmd|10 years ago|reply
I can not believe people think they have the prerogative to stop other people from reclining. It is intended functionality and we have certainly paid for that.
[+] [-] wink|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gdrulia|10 years ago|reply
I have experienced this in buses and trains, on trains especially. There this can be tolerable, because there is a much more space (at least where I've experienced reclining), and people mostly have been very understanding and kind of afraid that someone from the back will start to shout on them.
In any case, it as well quite a sad thing, that whether there is enough space to be able to recline or isn't, we have a situation were we are unable to sort this out between ourselves.
[+] [-] Grue3|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nly|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CaptainZapp|10 years ago|reply
I for one would absolutely not appreciate guerrilla tactics in a cramped and potentially tense environment by fellow passengers.
[+] [-] dhimes|10 years ago|reply
This is why we can't have nice things.
[+] [-] woliveirajr|10 years ago|reply
Take a look: https://www.voegol.com.br/pt-br/servicos/assento-mais-confor....
So, yes, reclining your seat is included in what you pay, you can even pay more to recline more your seat, and low-cost companies are known for having non-reclining seats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-cost_carrier).
[+] [-] arethuza|10 years ago|reply
We flew back from Turkey last year on a brand new Airbus with slimline seats and it was purgatory. I really hope this trend doesn't catch on with regular airlines.
[+] [-] gambiting|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moondowner|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IgorPartola|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] glomph|10 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dYS7PcAG4
[+] [-] jpatokal|10 years ago|reply
Such a list [of airlines] would not be meaningful. All airlines have wide rules to prohibit "tampering" with seats, with Knee Defenders or otherwise; you can improvise one with a well-sized bottle, after all. Those that point out the Knee Defender as banned are only making it explicit that this specific device is not allowed.
More to the point, if the passenger unable to recline complains, the flight attendants will insist that you stop using it.
[+] [-] DanBC|10 years ago|reply
Rejecting the premise of the question is very frustrating and causes some people to not bother with SE. At least leave a comment asking if they'd consider different types of answer, but otherwise just ignore the question.
[+] [-] mechazawa|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kriro|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxerickson|10 years ago|reply
I would have more sympathy for your position if I thought it was likely that you investigated the knee room and reclining policy prior to purchasing a ticket.
The claims are that it is all about safety and fairness and blah blah blah. Does anybody saying this honestly believe that 7 footers just wing it? Why should the world be different for the 6'2" than for the 7'1"?
[+] [-] rhino369|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shivetya|10 years ago|reply
Hence, put me next to the emergency exit which on some planes seems to have more room in front too
[+] [-] benihana|10 years ago|reply
"it's such a bummer that other people are so inconsiderate that it has to come to this."
[+] [-] glomph|10 years ago|reply