I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude.
But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The Merced, with all its plastic rafts and floaties, looks more like a waterpark than a river. And the campgrounds have more RVs than tents, jammed so close together you can't breathe.
When a guy in a wingsuit is whipping through the valley at 100mph, whooping and hollering, it really is incongruous with the park's mission. As is drone flying, mountain biking, snowmobiling, graffiti-art, and lots of other things that disturb nature.
What would John Muir have thought about BASE jumping?
My feeling is that the restriction should be lifted, probably because it's doing more harm than good, but I think both sides of the argument are convincing, and it's unfair to point the finger at the NPS without trying to honestly understand their motivations. There are a lot of news headlines that read something like, "Rules to Blame in Yosemite Accident", and then leave out the relevant counterpoints.
There are only 300-400 active wingsuit base jumpers in the world. You cannot see or hear them until their parachutes open. Canopy rides typically last 20-30s or less. There are less than 2000 base jumpers total recorded in history. When I land in the park and walk out, I sometimes ask people if they have seen anything funny just to get an idea for what my exposure is. Everyone is oblivious to anything having happened.
edit: here is an example of how much base jumpers care about the environment and preserving it http://www.kmvt.com/news/latest/Perrine-Bridge-Canyon-Clean-... Chuma has been leading these clean ups for the past few years along with many other local jumpers.
> I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it.
From the fine article:
" “The reason we would like to discourage it is not so much because of the danger of it, but the spectacle of it,” O’Neal said during an interview at the park’s Emergency Operations Centre."
I'm pretty sure Muir would have been a BASE jumper. Ever read that part in The Mountains of California where he climbed 100 feet up and then strapped himself to the top of a Doug fir in a huge storm just to experience the storm's fury in the canopy? He was an adventurer, and didn't view the wilderness solely as a source of tranquility on nice summer evenings.
That actually sounds like the beginnings of an argument for why it makes sense to officially ban BASE jumping, but to not enforce it very strongly especially when it's done in remote areas.
As the article points out, there are many illegal jumps made there and people don't even notice. The very scale of the cliffs means that you probably wouldn't notice unless the open parachute passed through your field of vision.
"What would John Muir have thought about BASE jumping?"
I've read John Muir's books about Yosemite. I remember they way he climbed up the unstable ice cone that forms in the winter around Horsetail fall just to stick his own head into the vortex. I remember all the unclimbed and unclimbable-looking rock faces he scrambled up without modern protection.
If John Muir knew about BASE jumping and wingsuits, he would have thought, "I need to do that right now today!"
But he would also know that it isn't compatible with what's left of the wilderness experience in Yosemite.
Twin Falls, ID is right on the edge of the Snake River Canyon, with the Perrine Bridge connecting it to all things north of the town's location. We frequently have bridge jumpers, as it is allowed.
Last month a 73 year old guy died when his second parachute didn't deploy correctly. He needed the second parachute BECAUSE HE LIT THE FIRST ON FIRE!
I just want to point out something that might be relevant, namely that as a combat vet, I learned that adrenaline is a drug like no other, and it's also extremely addictive. A key point that many adventure seekers fail to take into account, and I think it can sometimes adversely affect their analysis of situations at the moment of truth. Always be prepared to call something like this off, up to the very last moment, don't let the excitement or pressure overcome the logical side of things.
I think HN readers would enjoy 'Valley Uprising', a documentary about the history of Yosemite, particularly around rock climbing with segments about more recent BASE jumping. Dean is a main character, and the film excellently captures the 'true' spirit of the valley, full of adventurers and dreamers.
Although the stated reason for National parks to restrict it isn't safety, it is a common complaint amongst objectors anywhere. BASE jumping is inherently dangerous. That is no reason to ban it. The highest goal cannot be to make the World a perfectly safe Disney park.
National Parks are preserves; they are not playgrounds. You cannot play loud music. You cannot drive off road. You cannot parachute. You cannot hang-glide. You cannot camp anywhere you like. There are many strongly enforced rules to maximize preservation and minimize disturbance.
National Recreation Areas are playgrounds. National Forests are mildly limited playgrounds. National Wildlife Refuges are strongly regulated playgrounds. Using a National Park as a playground is immature self-entitlement.
Part of the reason it's so dangerous is because it's illegal. I used to assume people flew at night because it was a beautiful time to fly; I had no idea the legal status had such an influence on when they chose to jump.
One of the inconsistencies that's not mentioned in the article is the way the park service harasses these climbers/ jumpers, but then calls on those same elite climbers to rescue ordinary citizens who get in trouble in the park.
Just to note that Yosemite is not "the world" but a particular place.
While a National Park is owned by the government, in limiting allowed activities in the park, the Park Service is actually exercising the same rights that a private property owner has - you are the Park Services guests, the Park Service can request that you reframe from engaging in a variety of activities and naturally has a variety of reasons.
That's the way, uh, capitalism worked the last time I checked. In "the World", I would suppose that private property owners who like BASE jumping would be able to sponsor it on their land. Then if the state steps in with restrictions, we can complain about nanny states and such.
Last time I commented on this topic on HN, someone called Dean a "career criminal".
BASE is dangerous. Wingsuit proximity flying is super dangerous, whether from a helicopter or from an object.
However, humans have spirit and some much more than others. These people are generally awesome. I know a few of them. We should celebrate them, and mourn them. Maybe they aren't the Wright brothers or Chuck Yeager, but there are still frontiers out there and these guys are pushing them back.
I never thought I would wake up to see base jumping on hacker news.
I actively do wingsuit base jumping in Yosemite National Park. I will clear up several misconceptions.
(1) The amount of work it takes to carry all the appropriate gear up to Half Dome or El Cap will keep away anyone but the most serious jumpers. Removing the reference of parachutes/BASE jumping from the National Parks Aerial delivery law will not lead to a huge increase in jumpers. One of the problems that plagues the BASE jumping death statistics is, that unlike rock climbing, there is no physical barrier to taking on jumps that are beyond your skill level. Thankfully there are no gondolas in yosemite as there are in the alps.
(2) Even then, El Cap and Half Dome are two of the safest jumps in the world. Half Dome has at its best exit points a 16s rock drop; El cap: 22 s. For reference, many of the deaths you read about in Europe are at places like Chamonix where a 2-4s start is mandatory for surviving the jump. You can literally slip/trip and do 3-4 somersaults off half dome or el cap and be out of harms way.
(3) Proximity flying is not dangerous when done with reserve. Nearly all of the youtube footage you see of people flying 10-15ft off the ground is that person in a steep dive, at any moment they can flatten out their wings and they will disconnect from the terrain. The latest versions of every manufacturer's larger suits have all been documented flying up 50-150ft in flares. You are putting yourself in the suicide zone if you are flying terrain that requires you to have near your peak glide ratio for the full duration of the flight.
It sounds like Graham and Dean's logic for talking themselves into flying the line is "there is a point 15s before the terrain, where we can abort flying the line." And that is why quite a few base jumpers will attribute lighting and the fact that BASE is illegal to Dean and Graham's death. Flying in low light will affect your ability to make judgment calls about glide ratio and trajectory.
(4) The other risk I've experienced first hand is flying in cold temperatures. Many jumpers will jump with bare minimum daylight in the early morning and late evening. I've done this several times, and your arm wings are noticeably more rigid as well as your body. I have enough $$ for the fine to not ruin me financially, so I go later in the morning, but not everyone feels they have this luxury.
(5) None of my friends nor myself do this for an adrenaline rush. I dislike the feeling of fear or gambling. I enjoy charting out worst case and best case scenarios and planning jumps that give me the requisite range of error. In some ways it is remarkably similar to test driven software development. Check out this National Geographic feature on the work that goes into planning a Wingsuit base jump http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/05/150526-wingsuit-b...
(6) Those who are chasing YouTube glory are in the minority. Most of the jumpers I have met so far are highly intelligent individuals somewhere on the autism spectrum (Matt G, Zach T, Adrian W). There are guys like Pat Walker who no one has heard of that are extraordinary pilots. You will never hear of or see some of the best stuff going on in the sport, because most folks are just doing it for themselves. Even if the sport were legal, you wouldn't see or hear of these guys. I have never heard a wingsuit pilot hoot or holler while in a national park. It's uncharacteristic.
(7) We are in the early days of wingsuit base jumping, I'd say it is akin to the early days of Formula One. As the sport becomes more mainstream the death rate will go down. The sorts of risks and stunts are more reflective of the sport's early adopters rather than the inherent danger of the sport. Flying a wingsuit off half dome and pitching in the middle of the valley is safer than skydiving, driving a car, or taking a hike for any qualified individual.
(8) Emergency Services are budgeted ahead of time. The taxpayer is not getting an extra bill from Dean and Graham's accident. Dean volunteered within park as a rescuer for years. Show some respect and gratitude. Also, many individuals are wealthy in the sport and will not be collecting their social security check, so show some gratitude for that too. Most of our major Obamacare+medicare costs come form overweight people and old people. There are no fat wingsuit base jumpers. And when we die, you avoid us soaking up those funds, so again off with your government $$ complaints.
(9) The time under canopy for most jumpers I know is less than 30 seconds on average. Wingsuits are so small that it is hard to see or notice them until the parachute opens. There are an approximate 300-400 wingsuit base jumpers in the world. And no more than 2000 base jumpers world wide; you'll hardly notice them in the park.
(10) For those with a regulatory hard-on, there is a licensing system in skydiving that could be used to ensure that the wrong people are not jumping. Requiring any jumper to obtain a permit verifying they have a D-license would keep out the inexperienced.
I could keep going addressing the amount of penis envy present in this thread and the comments of the NYTimes, but I'll just link to the SBA http://www.swissbaseassociation.ch/ It's only in the US that this is not considered a boring mountaineering related mid life crisis sport. Legit everywhere else.
I still rank getting getting buzzed by some dude jumping the Captain while climbing the last few pitches of the East Buttress as one of the more exciting things that's ever happened to me. Maybe it was you, probably not though :)
I've not jumped in Yosemite yet, and hope I get to soon. Headed to Norway tomorrow for the Heliboogie. We've probably met.
Great post.
Re: Hooting and hollering, there is a joke in a popular first jump course about a hoot and holler being met with a throat punch. That's where one super sketchy cliff got its name in Twin.
I can see both arguments for and against. I think the NPS is also concerned with the spectacle of people thumping the side of a mountain in front of a class field trip, and the liability on their part (because it's not if someone will sue, it's when).
There is a law against illegal aerial delivery, not BASE jumping.
Furthermore, the US has made laws putting the Japanese in internment camps, mandating race segregation, regulating the trade of slaves, etc etc. U.S Law is not a great moral compass for how you should feel about a given activity.
Holy shit that last line gave me goosebumps, especially being a climber and extreme sports enthusiast and knowing that Dean's spirit animal was the Raven.
[+] [-] carsonbaker|10 years ago|reply
But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The Merced, with all its plastic rafts and floaties, looks more like a waterpark than a river. And the campgrounds have more RVs than tents, jammed so close together you can't breathe.
When a guy in a wingsuit is whipping through the valley at 100mph, whooping and hollering, it really is incongruous with the park's mission. As is drone flying, mountain biking, snowmobiling, graffiti-art, and lots of other things that disturb nature.
What would John Muir have thought about BASE jumping?
My feeling is that the restriction should be lifted, probably because it's doing more harm than good, but I think both sides of the argument are convincing, and it's unfair to point the finger at the NPS without trying to honestly understand their motivations. There are a lot of news headlines that read something like, "Rules to Blame in Yosemite Accident", and then leave out the relevant counterpoints.
[+] [-] sf_basejumper|10 years ago|reply
edit: here is an example of how much base jumpers care about the environment and preserving it http://www.kmvt.com/news/latest/Perrine-Bridge-Canyon-Clean-... Chuma has been leading these clean ups for the past few years along with many other local jumpers.
[+] [-] robotresearcher|10 years ago|reply
From the fine article:
" “The reason we would like to discourage it is not so much because of the danger of it, but the spectacle of it,” O’Neal said during an interview at the park’s Emergency Operations Centre."
[+] [-] cossatot|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|10 years ago|reply
A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.
[+] [-] baddox|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cromulent|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WildUtah|10 years ago|reply
I've read John Muir's books about Yosemite. I remember they way he climbed up the unstable ice cone that forms in the winter around Horsetail fall just to stick his own head into the vortex. I remember all the unclimbed and unclimbable-looking rock faces he scrambled up without modern protection.
If John Muir knew about BASE jumping and wingsuits, he would have thought, "I need to do that right now today!"
But he would also know that it isn't compatible with what's left of the wilderness experience in Yosemite.
[+] [-] cwbrandsma|10 years ago|reply
Last month a 73 year old guy died when his second parachute didn't deploy correctly. He needed the second parachute BECAUSE HE LIT THE FIRST ON FIRE!
http://magicvalley.com/news/local/video-shows-base-jumper-on...
I don't mourn people who die doing crazy things, so long as they are smart enough to know better. For some people, this is how they celebrate life.
[+] [-] arca_vorago|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshstrange|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sf_basejumper|10 years ago|reply
That incident is as relevant to everyday BASE jumping as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouicSLOc_K8 is to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfipAgNRDx0
[+] [-] ChristianGeek|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] heynk|10 years ago|reply
http://senderfilms.com/productions/details/809/Valley-Uprisi...
[+] [-] CapitalistCartr|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cjensen|10 years ago|reply
National Recreation Areas are playgrounds. National Forests are mildly limited playgrounds. National Wildlife Refuges are strongly regulated playgrounds. Using a National Park as a playground is immature self-entitlement.
[+] [-] japhyr|10 years ago|reply
Part of the reason it's so dangerous is because it's illegal. I used to assume people flew at night because it was a beautiful time to fly; I had no idea the legal status had such an influence on when they chose to jump.
One of the inconsistencies that's not mentioned in the article is the way the park service harasses these climbers/ jumpers, but then calls on those same elite climbers to rescue ordinary citizens who get in trouble in the park.
[+] [-] joe_the_user|10 years ago|reply
While a National Park is owned by the government, in limiting allowed activities in the park, the Park Service is actually exercising the same rights that a private property owner has - you are the Park Services guests, the Park Service can request that you reframe from engaging in a variety of activities and naturally has a variety of reasons.
That's the way, uh, capitalism worked the last time I checked. In "the World", I would suppose that private property owners who like BASE jumping would be able to sponsor it on their land. Then if the state steps in with restrictions, we can complain about nanny states and such.
[+] [-] cromulent|10 years ago|reply
BASE is dangerous. Wingsuit proximity flying is super dangerous, whether from a helicopter or from an object.
However, humans have spirit and some much more than others. These people are generally awesome. I know a few of them. We should celebrate them, and mourn them. Maybe they aren't the Wright brothers or Chuck Yeager, but there are still frontiers out there and these guys are pushing them back.
[+] [-] pbreit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baddox|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sf_basejumper|10 years ago|reply
I actively do wingsuit base jumping in Yosemite National Park. I will clear up several misconceptions.
(1) The amount of work it takes to carry all the appropriate gear up to Half Dome or El Cap will keep away anyone but the most serious jumpers. Removing the reference of parachutes/BASE jumping from the National Parks Aerial delivery law will not lead to a huge increase in jumpers. One of the problems that plagues the BASE jumping death statistics is, that unlike rock climbing, there is no physical barrier to taking on jumps that are beyond your skill level. Thankfully there are no gondolas in yosemite as there are in the alps.
(2) Even then, El Cap and Half Dome are two of the safest jumps in the world. Half Dome has at its best exit points a 16s rock drop; El cap: 22 s. For reference, many of the deaths you read about in Europe are at places like Chamonix where a 2-4s start is mandatory for surviving the jump. You can literally slip/trip and do 3-4 somersaults off half dome or el cap and be out of harms way.
(3) Proximity flying is not dangerous when done with reserve. Nearly all of the youtube footage you see of people flying 10-15ft off the ground is that person in a steep dive, at any moment they can flatten out their wings and they will disconnect from the terrain. The latest versions of every manufacturer's larger suits have all been documented flying up 50-150ft in flares. You are putting yourself in the suicide zone if you are flying terrain that requires you to have near your peak glide ratio for the full duration of the flight.
It sounds like Graham and Dean's logic for talking themselves into flying the line is "there is a point 15s before the terrain, where we can abort flying the line." And that is why quite a few base jumpers will attribute lighting and the fact that BASE is illegal to Dean and Graham's death. Flying in low light will affect your ability to make judgment calls about glide ratio and trajectory.
(4) The other risk I've experienced first hand is flying in cold temperatures. Many jumpers will jump with bare minimum daylight in the early morning and late evening. I've done this several times, and your arm wings are noticeably more rigid as well as your body. I have enough $$ for the fine to not ruin me financially, so I go later in the morning, but not everyone feels they have this luxury.
(5) None of my friends nor myself do this for an adrenaline rush. I dislike the feeling of fear or gambling. I enjoy charting out worst case and best case scenarios and planning jumps that give me the requisite range of error. In some ways it is remarkably similar to test driven software development. Check out this National Geographic feature on the work that goes into planning a Wingsuit base jump http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/05/150526-wingsuit-b...
(6) Those who are chasing YouTube glory are in the minority. Most of the jumpers I have met so far are highly intelligent individuals somewhere on the autism spectrum (Matt G, Zach T, Adrian W). There are guys like Pat Walker who no one has heard of that are extraordinary pilots. You will never hear of or see some of the best stuff going on in the sport, because most folks are just doing it for themselves. Even if the sport were legal, you wouldn't see or hear of these guys. I have never heard a wingsuit pilot hoot or holler while in a national park. It's uncharacteristic.
(7) We are in the early days of wingsuit base jumping, I'd say it is akin to the early days of Formula One. As the sport becomes more mainstream the death rate will go down. The sorts of risks and stunts are more reflective of the sport's early adopters rather than the inherent danger of the sport. Flying a wingsuit off half dome and pitching in the middle of the valley is safer than skydiving, driving a car, or taking a hike for any qualified individual.
(8) Emergency Services are budgeted ahead of time. The taxpayer is not getting an extra bill from Dean and Graham's accident. Dean volunteered within park as a rescuer for years. Show some respect and gratitude. Also, many individuals are wealthy in the sport and will not be collecting their social security check, so show some gratitude for that too. Most of our major Obamacare+medicare costs come form overweight people and old people. There are no fat wingsuit base jumpers. And when we die, you avoid us soaking up those funds, so again off with your government $$ complaints.
(9) The time under canopy for most jumpers I know is less than 30 seconds on average. Wingsuits are so small that it is hard to see or notice them until the parachute opens. There are an approximate 300-400 wingsuit base jumpers in the world. And no more than 2000 base jumpers world wide; you'll hardly notice them in the park.
(10) For those with a regulatory hard-on, there is a licensing system in skydiving that could be used to ensure that the wrong people are not jumping. Requiring any jumper to obtain a permit verifying they have a D-license would keep out the inexperienced.
I could keep going addressing the amount of penis envy present in this thread and the comments of the NYTimes, but I'll just link to the SBA http://www.swissbaseassociation.ch/ It's only in the US that this is not considered a boring mountaineering related mid life crisis sport. Legit everywhere else.
[+] [-] fivethirty|10 years ago|reply
I still rank getting getting buzzed by some dude jumping the Captain while climbing the last few pitches of the East Buttress as one of the more exciting things that's ever happened to me. Maybe it was you, probably not though :)
[+] [-] base698|10 years ago|reply
Great post.
Re: Hooting and hollering, there is a joke in a popular first jump course about a hoot and holler being met with a throat punch. That's where one super sketchy cliff got its name in Twin.
[+] [-] redwood|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lfowles|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Simulacra|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hootydooty|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] base698|10 years ago|reply
For next time, the default when someone dies is sadness--FYI. It's something in humanity that makes it so.
[+] [-] sf_basejumper|10 years ago|reply
Furthermore, the US has made laws putting the Japanese in internment camps, mandating race segregation, regulating the trade of slaves, etc etc. U.S Law is not a great moral compass for how you should feel about a given activity.
[+] [-] pbreit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dohertyjf|10 years ago|reply