[MetaCosm]

I HATE open offices, but man is this article full of absolute nonsense. I mean that in a very literal way -- it has lots of stuff that can not be made sense of because it lacks context or any actual meaning.

> I stress to my patients and the parents of my patients that if you can’t hear anything going on around you when listening to headphones, the decibel level is too high.

This is just stupid. It ignores type of headphone entirely. IEMs like the ER-4P (https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/earphones/er4.html) have insane noise isolation (up to 42 dB). When using them, I can't hear someone talking to me, standing right next to me, with no music! They physical block the ear canal and create a seal blocking outside noise.

> As a rule of thumb, you should only use [personal audio] devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day. The louder the volume, the shorter your duration should be. At maximum volume, you should listen for only about five minutes a day.

Again, idiotic. "60%" is entirely meaningless. It might as well be "Don't listen above FALASFDABURAGA". Headphones vary in sensitivity vastly, on some sets of IEMs -- 60% would be ear bleeding, deafeningly, painfully loud. On a high impedance, low sensitivity set of big headphones, 60% is a whisper. As a "rule of thumb" all it does is reinforce that the person who gave that quote is an idiot.

> If you listen to music with earbuds or headphones at levels that block out normal discourse, you are in effect dealing lethal blows to the hair cells in your ears.

... again, quotes from people who have no understanding that there are different types of headphones. MAYBE you could claim with fully open headphones this to be the case... but what is the level of "discourse"... sigh. Again, literally nonsense because it is impossible to make sense of...

> ... Music Is Distracting (entire section) ...

There exists multiple categories of music WITHOUT WORDS! Shocking I know. Most developers I know listen to these types of music because, lyrics are distracting. That isn't a cut against headphones.

> ... Feeling of Vulnerability ...

Getting to some sad points. Again, I hate open office plans, but come on -- really -- the feeling of vulnerability being caused by headphones? It is caused by an open office layout.

[bryanlarsen]

"This is just stupid. It ignores type of headphone entirely. "

It sounds pretty smart to me. What else is the doctor supposed to do? Until the silly Beats craze took off, one could have made a statement like that and it would have been accurate for >99% of headphones users. Assuming that the user is listening to the pack-in IEMs (or IEMs with a very similar profile) plugged into a phone or iPod would have been a safe assumption. Sure, an office full of tech geeks won't match, but for the general population of headphone wearers?

And if your phones are more or less sensitive, comparing against pack-in IEMs into an iPod or phone is probably the best way that consumers have of comparing levels.

There probably was such a statement in the original source, but it was probably (rightfully) dropped by the reporters because it would have just confused people

"There exists multiple categories of music WITHOUT WORDS!"

I find such music is also very distracting. I find good symphonic music much more interesting than boring Pop music. Interesting -> distracting.

" the feeling of vulnerability being caused by headphones? It is caused by an open office layout."

IMO, the feeling of vulnerability is caused by the combination of headphones and open layout. Normally you can tell people are behind you because you hear them. If you can't hear them, then you get freaked out and feel vulnerable.

[yellowapple]

> I find such music is also very distracting. I find good symphonic music much more interesting than boring Pop music. Interesting -> distracting.

So find some boring (or at least repetetive/uninteresting) instrumental music.

[kylec]

> Getting to some sad points. Again, I hate open office plans, but come on -- really -- the feeling of vulnerability being caused by headphones? It is caused by an open office layout.

"Just wear headphones" is a common response when people explain the issues they have with open offices. This post explains the downsides to wearing headphones in an open office, including the fact that blocking your hearing can make you more vulnerable.

[MetaCosm]

It is a point, just a very "sad point" on top of a long series of nonsense ones. Open offices are AWFUL, but so is that article. Just because I agree with the underlying point doesn't mean I have to agree with tortured logic.

[mpdehaan2]

I am a big fan of the music quality of in-ear headphones like Shures or Westones or Etys, but I'm pretty sure it's still causing some hearing damage.

My hearing is a lot better now but when I listened to them all the time, the ringing got to be pretty bad. Since working from home and not listening to them so much, it's gotten better - I'm not sure it's repairable though, so this may not be 100% accurate.

They are also a bit uncomfortable to use for long periods of time.

"Just use headphones" is a bit of a "screw you" when said to employees, because their employers were too cheap to buy or too controlling to want adequate office furniture.

My best cubes were 10 years ago and everything is getting worse (louder and smaller and privacy trending to zero) to the point where working from home is much more tolerable.

Companies should realize that investing in employees pays huge dividents, and an extra few thousand in furniture might improve their output many many times over.

[ryanobjc]

The problem with your reply to the article is you are overly precise and it doesn't add to the overall conversation. Yes the doctor and ENT advice is imprecise, but also it doesn't make sense giving people advice that isn't actionable. For example, people can't measure the effective loudness of their headphones. They don't know what impedance is, let alone what their headphones have or not.

And finally, on the vulnerability, solid work has been done around working with your back open to an office. The article hardly claims this is caused by headphones, it merely notes that with headphones you can't hear either.

I dont think the frequent use of 'idiot' is really helping your case here. Honestly my advice is to stop, relax, breathe, and think for a moment, perhaps the ENTs you lambaste as idiots, who have spent literally decades thinking about this problem, including the deeper problem of how to teach people, aren't actual idiots. And that they have to market their advice in a useful, actionable manner that is slightly inaccurate. As soon as you stop assuming the rest of the world is stupid, you all of a sudden open yourself up. Good luck with that.

[joesmo]

Yup. You're right about all your audio points. There is no way the Etymotics are damaging your hearing. If you leave the music off, they're excellent ear plugs. Speaking of ear plugs, that might be a great solution for certain people who are bothered by noise. I know at least a couple of engineers who use them. Of course, this is no way excuses open office plans and their stupid design, consequences, and proponents.

[cholantesh]

>There exists multiple categories of music WITHOUT WORDS!

Here are some examples of instrumental music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cstRR3vvxIY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCEDfZgDPS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ck2kAOtnXE

I really do not think you can make a generalization that lyrics are the source of distractive qualities in a musical piece.

[phlyingpenguin]

> There exists multiple categories of music WITHOUT WORDS! Shocking I know. Most developers I know listen to these types of music because, lyrics are distracting. That isn't a cut against headphones.

None of those sorts of music work for me... should I still wear headphones to fix the open office?

[KeytarHero]

> As a rule of thumb, you should only use [personal audio] devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day. The louder the volume, the shorter your duration should be. At maximum volume, you should listen for only about five minutes a day.

Perfect, I'm just going to plug my headphones into a 50-watt amp. Then I can have them as loud as I want without even getting anywhere close to 60%, so my ears will be totally safe!