As an entrepreneur in Europe I avoid France at all cost, even when it is a big market for us, we develop for them outside.
Great place to live, bad place for working. Worse if the people that decide on your visas and conditions are Communist people. Central planning(communism) is the opposite of startups.
In the US people(the culture and society) admire people that makes money, in my opinion too much. When Americans talk about people they say things like "he is worth X thousands dollars", implying that people is worth the money they have in the bank.
In France it is the polar opposite, the culture hates successful people, envy is endemic and taxes are on the roof, and will only grow higher when the German money stops flowing.
France is one of the natural wealthiest countries I have ever lived, but French people are not very efficient at exploiting it. They believe in eternal rights, but not on duties.
The same way than when you live in China you feel the Cultural revolution, in France you feel the French Revolution at every corner.
Having lived in France for four years trying to start a company, I can say, without question, this would be the worst idea for anyone who is serious about starting a company.
Most french LEAVE france because of how byzantine and insane the laws are towards companies (let alone startups).
Can you elaborate on this? I had this idea lingering in the back of my head to move to France for 3-6 months to build out my concept/prototype and then move back to the US when I am ready to leave the "pre-revenue" stage of the startup.
I can't really believe this is a serious idea. Or maybe it is a serious idea from people who have no idea how startups work.
As one of the other commenters said, the primary reason I wouldn't start a company in France is the "Byzantine and insane laws" that you have to deal with. For starters, how about all of the employment laws that make it difficult to fire poor performing employees.
But beyond that, look at the tax rates. As someone who has been through starting a company before, it's just not worth it without the chance of a good return in the future. A quick internet search reveals that as a non-French citizen, I would be liable for around 56% in taxes if my company ever exited. Compare that with the qualified small business rate of about 15% here in the states...
It's almost offensive to me that the French government thinks that the only thing standing between a successful tech scene and where they are now is the ability to get a visa and some seed capital. Hubris much?
Regarding taxes, you're comparing two very different things. The 15% you're talking about is, as you said, qualified small business rate, which means you have [..] to hold it for more than 5 years. The 56% you're talking about in France is an over simplified number. My company just got acquired (i'm a co-founder), and I can guarantee you I got a better tax deal in France than you will ever get in the US.
I'm not even going to get into the laws debate, but just keep in mind, just like the taxes, it's not at all how you think it is :)
There are, of course, other lines of businesses for start-ups to get into.
It is probably true that if you're looking to disrupt how employment markets function, France is probably not a great place to focus your initial efforts. But there are lots of ways to make money outside of that.
If your business model is "bypass the law and hope you can get big enough before anyone notices", this kind of setbacks are bound to happen. It happened in France, it could have happened anywhere.
On the other hand, there are thousands of people creating startups without trying to hack the law, and they are doing just fine in France.
Think about it this way. Expecting foreigners to speak French may be a bigger hurdle to attract interest compared to expecting foreigners to speak English which is spoken the most in the world.
Yes french could still be mentioned but it may not make much difference.
I wish they would decouple the money from the visa; so they can hand out more visas. I would be interested to live some time in France while I bootstrap a business. I don't need money from the government, actually I will bring my own...that's why countries should be more lenient with visas for entrepreneurs
This program might appeal to digital nomads. It is a good way to work on your projects for 6 months in a country and then move on to someplace else. I am guessing the program may have some restrictions in this aspect. Nevertheless, interesting program to attract entrepreneurship if conditions are not onerous.
Interesting, the same Startup Visa program for Italy got the same negative reaction[1]. I wonder which European country has the best conditions to start the new high-risk Internet company? Finland? Poland?
Trashing uber in France is like the US trashing the chinese, uber is not a startup, it's a huge foreign conglomerate entering a new country where there is already a huge incumbent in place, there is nothing startupy anymore about it, you're a few years late to the party.
It's like the crackdowns on online gaming in the US for example.
So taxis in Paris protest against a multibillion dollar company and suddenly the entire country of France is against startups ?
I agree that France is probably not the best country to launch a startup but this is a pretty poor argument.
[+] [-] Htsthbjig|10 years ago|reply
Great place to live, bad place for working. Worse if the people that decide on your visas and conditions are Communist people. Central planning(communism) is the opposite of startups.
In the US people(the culture and society) admire people that makes money, in my opinion too much. When Americans talk about people they say things like "he is worth X thousands dollars", implying that people is worth the money they have in the bank.
In France it is the polar opposite, the culture hates successful people, envy is endemic and taxes are on the roof, and will only grow higher when the German money stops flowing.
France is one of the natural wealthiest countries I have ever lived, but French people are not very efficient at exploiting it. They believe in eternal rights, but not on duties.
The same way than when you live in China you feel the Cultural revolution, in France you feel the French Revolution at every corner.
[+] [-] SandersAK|10 years ago|reply
Most french LEAVE france because of how byzantine and insane the laws are towards companies (let alone startups).
[+] [-] xGrill|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jeremyt|10 years ago|reply
As one of the other commenters said, the primary reason I wouldn't start a company in France is the "Byzantine and insane laws" that you have to deal with. For starters, how about all of the employment laws that make it difficult to fire poor performing employees.
But beyond that, look at the tax rates. As someone who has been through starting a company before, it's just not worth it without the chance of a good return in the future. A quick internet search reveals that as a non-French citizen, I would be liable for around 56% in taxes if my company ever exited. Compare that with the qualified small business rate of about 15% here in the states...
It's almost offensive to me that the French government thinks that the only thing standing between a successful tech scene and where they are now is the ability to get a visa and some seed capital. Hubris much?
[+] [-] alexeichemenda|10 years ago|reply
I'm not even going to get into the laws debate, but just keep in mind, just like the taxes, it's not at all how you think it is :)
[+] [-] jacquesm|10 years ago|reply
http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/30/sacrebleu-french-pride-kil...
[+] [-] metahatem|10 years ago|reply
As an entrepreneur, that is not enticing to me.
[+] [-] scarmig|10 years ago|reply
It is probably true that if you're looking to disrupt how employment markets function, France is probably not a great place to focus your initial efforts. But there are lots of ways to make money outside of that.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Wilya|10 years ago|reply
If your business model is "bypass the law and hope you can get big enough before anyone notices", this kind of setbacks are bound to happen. It happened in France, it could have happened anywhere.
On the other hand, there are thousands of people creating startups without trying to hack the law, and they are doing just fine in France.
[+] [-] iamcurious|10 years ago|reply
Interesting. I expected speak French or English..
[+] [-] codegeek|10 years ago|reply
Yes french could still be mentioned but it may not make much difference.
[+] [-] codewithcheese|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] akg_67|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] potomushto|10 years ago|reply
1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8890952
[+] [-] jacquesm|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phanindra_veera|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] psychometry|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pkaye|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lucidrains|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nraynaud|10 years ago|reply
It's like the crackdowns on online gaming in the US for example.
[+] [-] Joky|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Toine|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ane|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pesenti|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
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