Every time I see posts like this, I see people commenting on it with varying statement to the effect of "that's a shame, but most people in tech aren't like that", or "I'm so tired of seeing posts like this, quit making a fuss."
And that makes me so angry.
Sure, maybe not everyone in the industry is an arsehole. But enough people are, and those people are vocal enough, that a significant number of people feel disgusted and threatened. That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem.
(also, for anyone wondering whether the number of people affected really is "significant", I would consider even one person to be a significant number)
I also get really angry at posts like "This has never happened to me, so I'm sure it's all ok". This may come as a surprise, but individual experiences are not universal. That something has never happened to you doesn't mean it's never happened to anyone else.
And if you're getting tired of seeing posts like this, don't complain about the people making the posts. Complain about the people harassing them. It may seem counterintuitive, but the fastest and most effective way to stop posts like this turning up is actually to make more of them, until the harassment and abuse stop.
"This happens all the time" is never a valid excuse.
The problem is, just one person like this is "enough" to really mess people up. You can have hundreds of normal, positive interactions in a week and it just takes one a$$hat to make you forget all that. Thanks to the internet, one guy can ruin hundreds of other people's days. He (or she) can do it anonymously and safely from a great distance. For the overwhelming majority of us, there simply are no barriers to prevent this. We routinely filter out nuisance emails from Nigerian princes but very few people try to filter out the crazies.
Most of us, if given the chance to have our messages filtered, would choose not to do so. Most people are eager to please and want to know when somebody is unhappy so they can fix it. Only people in the most visible positions are faced with such a deluge of crap that they're forced to do something about it. For the average person, the aberrant attention that comes from a small amount of exposure, such as a conference talk, is just big enough to throw us for a loop but not so big that we'd think about taking steps to never see that stuff. This isn't only a problem for women. Men face it too.
Perhaps the time has come to approach harassment the way we approach spam. Namely, make it easy to report personal attacks so that we can start using the same techniques that block spam to block harassment.
>That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem.
Is that really the case, though? If there's a violent criminal in a town, does the town as a whole have problem? Is the whole town to blame for the acts of that individual?
We should do what we can to stop this sort of abuse and make things better, but why do we have to spend so much time allocating blame to everyone in same field of work?
It makes you angry to think?
Is this the modern day internet in which lots of individuals say stupid things to get a rise out of people (troll for the lulz)? or is it a tech industry problem
Turn your base emotions off for a second and try to use your higher level brain facilities to target the actual root of this.
I'm an african-american in tech. Lots has happened to me. What has ever happened to you such that you can relate?
So, you're emotional.. angry about someone trolling a woman. So, you're going to go on an irrational rampage and fight any man to death who tries to bring clarity to the issue beyond your emotional white knighting?
Cheers man.. you're no better than the trolls who function on the same base instinct. Rise above it. This isn't the stone-age.
> It may seem counterintuitive, but the fastest and most effective way to stop posts like this turning up is actually to make more of them, until the harassment and abuse stop.
You have evidence to back this up? Honest question.
>>> That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But...
Isn't that true with everything? Is the medical industry fucked because some doctors are getting sued for malpractice? Is accountancy fucked because some accountants embezzle money? Are teachers fucked because some guy fails students who look like his ex?
I mean come on. These attitudes are in no way productive and the only reason the above post exists is to attract attention, not to fix anything.
> Every time I see posts like this, I see people commenting on it with varying statement to the effect of "that's a shame, but most people in tech aren't like that", or "I'm so tired of seeing posts like this, quit making a fuss."
I'm tired of people whining in a blog post instead of calling the police.
Death threats and violence threats like this are unacceptable. CALL THE POLICE. After a couple of high-profile cases put these kinds of assholes in jail it will stop.
>Sure, maybe not everyone in the industry is an arsehole. But enough people are, and those people are vocal enough, that a significant number of people feel disgusted and threatened. That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem.
There is not one "person in this industry" that was named or identified here. To project that anonymous internet trolls are "the tech industry" says more about how you view the tech industry then the industry itself or the people in it. What needs to stop is blanked condemnations of an industry, any industry because someone gets nasty tweets or emails. I got nasty email therefore the tech industry is responsible is not credible. Anyone regardless of who you are or what you do can end up with a mailbox full of nasty emails for innumerable reasons.
I'm currently working in a team that is 50% women, and I'm amazed at how many stories they have of previous work experiences and the culture of acceptance in medium sized companies.
I hope Jessie doesn't give up. Not only for the sake of our industry, but also for the sake of girls who want to make it in this industry and not have to put up with what jessie has had to put up with.
Her (or any person) having to leave our industry because of any sort of harassment hurts the rest of us the most.
Rather than going the law enforcement harassment route, is there any way we as an industry can stand up for Jessie and the rest of the woman who are being abused by a few assholes?
Just yesterday I met a friends niece who wants to become a game developer. She's only 14 now, but what a shame it would be for her to give up on her dream because some idiotic moron, mentally incapable of forming real normal relationships, has ruined our industry for her.
This doesn't need police action (though nothing wrong with that), it needs us to be outspoken and supportive. Maybe also a bit creative in how we handle this. I'm all for finding ways of kicking these offensive guys out and bringing more women in.
And people ask why more women don't speak at conferences or at meetup groups or contribute to open source software, or even publish blogs. It's because we are SCARED. We know what the consequences of making our voices heard can be, and it's terrifying, and we question whether it is worth the risk.
I think you're being a bit overbroad in speaking for all women (that's the kind of thinking which leads to sexism in the first place). Frankly the 'consequences' here are receiving a bunch of unsavoury PMs. i.e., there are no real-world, physical, dangerous consequences. So the fear of contributing to a community because of it is unfounded. It's just a side-effect of Internet culture, and it happens to men too.
There is a small culture of people online who make a hobby of harassment. They don't have an agenda. They aren't representative of anything. They're not distinguished by being part of any particular industry, race, sexuality or economic status. They are simply selfish individuals.
They do it because it gives them little endorphin pops to think about how upset their victim must be and because it is a very low risk activity. That's all there is to it. They don't particularly care about "women in tech" or "women in gaming" to any extent beyond the fact that the controversy gives them a hook they can latch on to dig a reaction out of their victim. Or infinitely better: the press!
The only way to prevent this activity is to attach a small but concrete level of risk to it. Quoting the article that chuckcode linked about Reddit's "Violentacrez":
> "My wife is disabled. I got a home and a mortgage, and if this hits the fan, I believe this will affect negatively on my employment," he said. "I do my job, go home watch TV, and go on the internet. I just like riling people up in my spare time."
> There is a small culture of people online who make a hobby of harassment. They don't have an agenda. They aren't representative of anything. They're not distinguished by being part of any particular industry, race, sexuality or economic status. They are simply selfish individuals
I wish more people understood this. It is a big problem with no solution. We can keep spamposting these tropes of #gurlgamers and #womenintech but the problem isn't really that these arenas are overtly hostile to women. The problem is that if you are in these arenas you are just more visible to the type of people that enjoy harassing people. I think doxxing is one of the biggest sins on the internet. Anonymity and privacy are fundamental pieces of American and Internet culture.
Doxxing someone is really the only way to stop these things happening, and even then they must actually care about what society thinks of them. Also, if you are wrong you could ruin an innocent persons life. So no easy solutions. Explaining tolerance and these angry women first campaigns alienate people from the causes. They don't harass women and are normal people. The people that actually do bad things couldn't care any less about this "education" and the flamewars this stuff starts make it all the more funny to them.
This is an insanely hard problem to solve, and it might actually not be possible to fix. The answer might be to have thick skin and hire a security company to put alarms and cameras in your house. It isn't fair to someone like the subject of this article that is an intelligent, attractive, hard working person to be punished for having these attributes, but it is an answer even if not a great one.
But I want to add a counter statistic.
I've only had pleasant experiences from people trying to help me.
The only shit I got in the industry was from a business manager trying to push our team into a death march.
There are many factors out in there in the world.
We need to put things back into context, rather than just saying things like "Our Industry is fucked".
It feels like lately its too easy to forget the majority of people in tech (i've found) are incredibly decent human beings both men and women.
That's true of the majority everywhere, I think, but the minority in this case has a disproportionately large impact -- for example, in running Kathy Sierra, a highly competent professional with a great deal to contribute, out of the industry entirely.
I'm happy it hasn't impinged on your work life, and I hope it never does. And there's still folks being hurt by a malevolent minority in and around our industry.
When does that majority of incredibly decent human beings, both men and women, start to care enough that they refuse to accept this any longer?
Focusing on the minority is important, and kind of the point of article. The vocal minority in the tech world seem to be more unreasonably misbehaved than other industries. Imagine a woman in the medical industry or energy sector who gives conference talks and blogs...no way she's going to get this level of harassment.
The level of abuse the author has endured is ridiculous and she certainly has my sympathies. It reminds me of Louis CK's routine about why he doesn't give his kids cell phones (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c) which boils down to without seeing the other person they can't empathize about the effect their words will have on other people. I can't help but wonder how these pseudo-anonymous people will feel when they find out that they aren't all that anonymous in the long run. When gawker unmasked "Reddits biggest troll" Violentacrez he certainly had a change of feelings when he had to stand behind his words and actions[1]. Freedom of speech is one of our most important values and anonymity is an important source for social change and equality for all. Using these gifts to rain down insults on others rarely works out well though in person and likely won't work out well on the internet in the long run either.
I've sort of thought that this was a fairly consistent phenomenon since the origin of the internet, and that as more and more people come online they've been exposed to it and don't think it's reasonable. And to some extent they're right - it's not reasonable. Unfortunately being a public figure, especially by critiquing that phenomena, is going to attract more of that abuse.
It pains me to see people call that sort of thing an issue with the "tech industry", though. Not that the tech industry is perfect, but that grouping in the internet trolls with people who care and want to fix the things that do need fixing is really counter-productive when you're trying to win a war of hearts and minds.
This is less about the tech industry and more about the culture of the internet. A loud minority enforce the culture of anonymity on the internet and having a public presence will open one up to getting caught in the crosshairs. Being a "public figure" has always opened one up to these sorts of things, the internet has made the barrier of entry very low for spamming and threatening someone. I don't see any solution to this.
Kudos to her for standing up to it, but she should clearly never have to. This kind of thing just shouldn't be happening...
I don't think I know anybody who does this to women. I really hope that's because I don't actually know anyone who does, and not that people I otherwise respect are secretly doing this. How would a person know, if it's anonymous?
Well, maybe a few ways. The question is, are these all actually anonymous? Jessie's post lists messages on IRC and e-mails. I'd bet some people get harassed on Twitter, Reddit, or other widely-used platforms. Some of these people must be identifiable, surely? At the very least, some might be using the same username/e-mail address across many services, and might end up using one in relation to a job application.
The last thing I'd want is a witch hunt, where innocent people end up on the wrong end of an Internet lynch mob. What I'm about to wonder out-loud might be a bad or ill-conceived idea, but here goes:
Would it be reasonable/helpful/worthwhile to have some centralized place where these kinds of harassments can be forwarded and grouped? E-mails with headers, tweets with screenshots of the full context, IRC messages with Nickserv registration info, etc., so that repeat offenders would have a form of evidence (and I stress evidence) stacked against them? Some form of "witness" system, where other recipients (Twitter users, IRC users, etc.) can sign off that they saw this take place?
Basically, create a sort of tech industry predator list. Not everyone on there would be readily identifiable, but maybe some would be. I certainly would check it before hiring anyone, look up GitHub usernames and such, and it might help give people who don't experience this a better sense of just how terrible and prevalent this all is.
So, good idea, at least in part? Terrible idea with too much potential for further abuse? Somewhere in-between?
I just want to understand why people do this. If some men were afraid of losing their jobs because of a big influx of women I'd at least comprehend (but definitely not agree with) that behavior, but it's a job free-for-all now and seems like it always will be, so I just can't see what the motivation could possibly be. If they're just pure sociopaths, why don't they harass men this way as well?
I used to engage to in this sort of behavior to some extent. I grew up with a repressed sexuality and no knowledge of how to relate to women. Then, I suffered endless social rejection. I spent all my time in front of computers, and got good at programming.
We need to educate people
(1) How to relate to other, respectfully
(2) How to get over their anger
(3) Tell them this behavior is unacceptable
Tech has many misfits. There are many guys, who've spent their lives in front of computer screens, and haven't developed healthy ways of relating to other people. Yet, they can still be great at technology with the power that brings.
Thank you. I have long wanted to speak to someone who admits to doing this type of thing as it is very hard for me to understand.
I realize it might be painful to relive a bit, but would you be willing to go into some more detail (it is a throwaway anyway). What did you do, what were you thinking as you did it, and how could someone have reached you sooner to do 1/2/3?
This is terrible. Are scenarios like this really common? I work with several women in the office, but have not heard of them dealing with such harassment. Is our situation unique?
Either way, I hope this changes soon. There's no reason for acting like that.
I have nothing but admiration and applause for Jessie's stance. I do hope she does everything she can to get those perpetrating such deeds into the hands of law enforcement.
You can say 'this isn't a problem with our industry, it is just internet trolls' but people outside our industry aren't going to docker conferences or paying attention to presenters at them.
It might not be YOU that does this type of thing, but someone you work with is. You know who I'm talking about and you don't shun them or expose them... and until you do, author is correct, this industry is fucked.
But how do any of us know what online presence others we work with have? I don't pay any attention to what my co-workers do on their own time. They may be jerks in quite a few arenas; it can be quite invisible to me.
I’ve gotten hundreds of private messages on IRC and emails about sex, rape, and death threats.
Not sure what IRC channels she has been hanging out in, or what her spam filters are letting through, but this has not been my experience at all... in 10 years of contributing to OSS.
However, attractive female posts videos (yep, even conference talk) on the Internet, and attention ensues?
Maybe it's not an "industry" thing. Maybe it's something else.
[EDIT] -- Wow, thanks for the votes folks. The author wants to blame "the Industry" for something that is not unique to the industry.
I do not know the author of the blog but that's horrible. No one should have to face that. Unfortunately, behind the anonimity of the internet, trolls and disgusting people will harass pretty much anyone and there's not much anyone can do.
Given the responses I see here, it seems pretty obvious that this is a 'problem with the industry' regardless of whether it's a problem with or that sprouts from the internet.
It seems evident that Jess has experienced terrible things in the process of performing her job. That she would post so adamantly to her blog suggests that the problem is not going away, and she is probably not receiving much of a helpful response from the people around her, presumably including her colleagues. The obvious implication is that as male-dominated industry, most of her (male) colleagues are not familiar with the type of abuse she is receiving and, when they hear of it, are dismissive, taking an attitude of 'not my problem/job description' rather than offering support or assistance.
If that doesn't make it an industry problem, I don't know what would.
But you should know that her colleagues (me included) take this super seriously, and so does our employer. We are doing everything we can to support her, and to make the attacks stop. We also want to contribute to fixing the problem beyond this one instance, and are looking for the best way to do that. If you have ideas I would love to hear them!
This is not common and, given her focus area in tech, it just happens to be more pronounced among those individuals. Ever heard of 4chan? All it takes is one post of your info and you'll get a swarm of people descending on you...
Linux/open source is full of such individuals.
They do it to get a rise out of people and the internet is a nice anonymous vehicle to do it under. Has nothing to do w/ the broader industry of tech and more to do with a group of misfits who like to frazzle people for the lulz.
Get the police involved and keep these unfounded broad based attacks of a whole industry to yourself. By making such statements, you're attacking people unjustly and doing the same thing to others that is being done to you. Techies are not rapist... I could care less if you're male/female. The industry is not fucked. You just got trolled by some dweebs on the internet.
One pronounced incident and everyone is ready to cast stones at an industry.. If anything, this needs to stop. It's really getting old and, as someone who does their best to value/see people as equals as a good number in tech do, I'm getting tired of this sh*t.
And while I believe it's true that not every woman in tech gets harassed, it's obvious that a much higher percentage of them get this sort of shit than men. And it only gets worse as they get more visible for the good work that they're doing.
You say you're tired of this shit. How do you think these women feel? It's not you writing the tweets and emails, but if you become complacent and say "that's just how it is some times" you are a part of the problem.
Never stop fighting for equal treatment. Never say it's OK.
It's fucking outrageously common. It might not be in your face, but it's an insidious and unrelenting horror to everyone it does affect.
It happens to be particularly bad in the tech world for a bunch of reasons, but women have a shitty time pretty much everywhere. On social media (mansplaining, innuendo, inappropriate messages, stalking, trolling, death threats), on the street (catcalling, abuse, stalking), in their homes (partner abuse)…
Why are you so sure that it's not common? I keep reading articles like this and I'm inclined to believe it's more than a coincidence. I dearly wish this woman's experience was an outlier but that is hard to believe.
I truly wish that there was a bright light I could shine over the world of software relieving the clearly disturbed souls of this woman's abusers from whatever pain it is that they act out of. It's extremely sad that my faceless colleagues have so many issues with women, and sadder still that these innocent women have to bear the brunt of it.
How is what the author described "one pronounced incident"? One email or IRC message could be a "pronounced incident". What she describes is clearly much worse, and points to a deep problem - not an one-off "incident".
The reason why "trolls gonn' troll" isn't an acceptable excuse is that straight white men don't get told that people are jerking off to their conference talks.
I am a colleague of Jess, and have witnessed her dealing with this ordeal. She is a badass and doesn't need anyone to speak on her behalf. But some aspects of her experience are relevant to all of us and we have to talk about it.
1. If this is happening to you and you haven't spoken to anyone about it - please do. There is a specialized support group at https://www.crashoverridenetwork.net . Even if you feel you can handle it yourself, it will help spread awareness. Part of the problem is that not enough people are aware of just how common these attacks are.
2. This is real. She is not making it up or dramatizing it to "get attention". How incredible is it that in 2015 this needs to be said? In fact she has downplayed the whole thing for months (months of continuous harrassment!). At first I didn't understand why - but seeing some of the reactions here, sadly, I think I understand.
3. Yes, law enforcement is involved. Those people are breaking the law and must face the consequences. The good news is that they are likely to get caught. Unlike other forms of cyber-crime, this particular crime id actually quite risky if the victim is determined and well-supported. The people tracking them down are well funded and have a great track record. Speaking for her employer, we will spare no expense to make sure the people responsible get what they deserve.
4. In addition to law enforcement, if you know of a legal way to help make those people regret what they did, please contact me. Our employer will foot the bill - or if it's really too expensive for a single private company to fund, I will find money elsewhere. Forgive my French but: let's make the motherfuckers pay. This also applies to increasing the risk for future crimes like this.
5. It's true that this kind of trolling is probably not a product of the tech industry itself. It is a deeper problem that will haunt us for some time, like racism, drug abuse or road rage. HOWEVER, after reading some of the comments here, without a doubt our industry is contributing to the problem through ignorance and sometimes plain stupidity. If you're downplaying this as "just trolling", asserting that gender has nothing to do with it, complaining that women are getting unfair attention, or assuming the victim is just trying to get attention: I'm sorry to say you are part of the problem, in the same way that climate change skeptics are part of the problem. You are not voicing a valid opinion; you are ignoring facts collected over years of research and professional experience by people who know better than you. And in the process you are forcing us to keep debating the reality of the problem, when we should be focused on fixing it. So when Jess says "this industry is fucked", I say: she is right. We're allowing our fellow technologists to be victimized right under our noses, and we're basically doing nothing. So let's fix it.
6. With the help of the comic artist Laurel (who has also experienced harrassment) we made a T-shirt to raise awareness. We're going to print and share as many as possible, but if you want to pribt your own, here's the hi-res PSD: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ikdlu6gavn669l/s-dockercon-harras...
[+] [-] alaroldai|10 years ago|reply
And that makes me so angry.
Sure, maybe not everyone in the industry is an arsehole. But enough people are, and those people are vocal enough, that a significant number of people feel disgusted and threatened. That should be enough to tell you that even if the majority are lovely people, the industry as a whole still has a problem.
(also, for anyone wondering whether the number of people affected really is "significant", I would consider even one person to be a significant number)
I also get really angry at posts like "This has never happened to me, so I'm sure it's all ok". This may come as a surprise, but individual experiences are not universal. That something has never happened to you doesn't mean it's never happened to anyone else.
And if you're getting tired of seeing posts like this, don't complain about the people making the posts. Complain about the people harassing them. It may seem counterintuitive, but the fastest and most effective way to stop posts like this turning up is actually to make more of them, until the harassment and abuse stop.
"This happens all the time" is never a valid excuse.
[+] [-] beloch|10 years ago|reply
Most of us, if given the chance to have our messages filtered, would choose not to do so. Most people are eager to please and want to know when somebody is unhappy so they can fix it. Only people in the most visible positions are faced with such a deluge of crap that they're forced to do something about it. For the average person, the aberrant attention that comes from a small amount of exposure, such as a conference talk, is just big enough to throw us for a loop but not so big that we'd think about taking steps to never see that stuff. This isn't only a problem for women. Men face it too.
Perhaps the time has come to approach harassment the way we approach spam. Namely, make it easy to report personal attacks so that we can start using the same techniques that block spam to block harassment.
[+] [-] TTPrograms|10 years ago|reply
Is that really the case, though? If there's a violent criminal in a town, does the town as a whole have problem? Is the whole town to blame for the acts of that individual?
We should do what we can to stop this sort of abuse and make things better, but why do we have to spend so much time allocating blame to everyone in same field of work?
[+] [-] astrocyte|10 years ago|reply
Turn your base emotions off for a second and try to use your higher level brain facilities to target the actual root of this.
I'm an african-american in tech. Lots has happened to me. What has ever happened to you such that you can relate?
So, you're emotional.. angry about someone trolling a woman. So, you're going to go on an irrational rampage and fight any man to death who tries to bring clarity to the issue beyond your emotional white knighting?
Cheers man.. you're no better than the trolls who function on the same base instinct. Rise above it. This isn't the stone-age.
[+] [-] mholt|10 years ago|reply
You have evidence to back this up? Honest question.
[+] [-] vilmosi|10 years ago|reply
I'm not disagreeing with you. But...
Isn't that true with everything? Is the medical industry fucked because some doctors are getting sued for malpractice? Is accountancy fucked because some accountants embezzle money? Are teachers fucked because some guy fails students who look like his ex?
I mean come on. These attitudes are in no way productive and the only reason the above post exists is to attract attention, not to fix anything.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] bsder|10 years ago|reply
I'm tired of people whining in a blog post instead of calling the police.
Death threats and violence threats like this are unacceptable. CALL THE POLICE. After a couple of high-profile cases put these kinds of assholes in jail it will stop.
[+] [-] generic_user|10 years ago|reply
There is not one "person in this industry" that was named or identified here. To project that anonymous internet trolls are "the tech industry" says more about how you view the tech industry then the industry itself or the people in it. What needs to stop is blanked condemnations of an industry, any industry because someone gets nasty tweets or emails. I got nasty email therefore the tech industry is responsible is not credible. Anyone regardless of who you are or what you do can end up with a mailbox full of nasty emails for innumerable reasons.
[+] [-] pedalpete|10 years ago|reply
I hope Jessie doesn't give up. Not only for the sake of our industry, but also for the sake of girls who want to make it in this industry and not have to put up with what jessie has had to put up with.
Her (or any person) having to leave our industry because of any sort of harassment hurts the rest of us the most.
Rather than going the law enforcement harassment route, is there any way we as an industry can stand up for Jessie and the rest of the woman who are being abused by a few assholes?
Just yesterday I met a friends niece who wants to become a game developer. She's only 14 now, but what a shame it would be for her to give up on her dream because some idiotic moron, mentally incapable of forming real normal relationships, has ruined our industry for her.
This doesn't need police action (though nothing wrong with that), it needs us to be outspoken and supportive. Maybe also a bit creative in how we handle this. I'm all for finding ways of kicking these offensive guys out and bringing more women in.
[+] [-] nightcracker|10 years ago|reply
Regardless of what your stance is on unwanted sexual attention, sending death threats is not acceptable.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] aaa667|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aikah|10 years ago|reply
Whatever, Plenty of women do all the things you said without issues.
[+] [-] obstacle1|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] corysama|10 years ago|reply
They do it because it gives them little endorphin pops to think about how upset their victim must be and because it is a very low risk activity. That's all there is to it. They don't particularly care about "women in tech" or "women in gaming" to any extent beyond the fact that the controversy gives them a hook they can latch on to dig a reaction out of their victim. Or infinitely better: the press!
The only way to prevent this activity is to attach a small but concrete level of risk to it. Quoting the article that chuckcode linked about Reddit's "Violentacrez":
> "My wife is disabled. I got a home and a mortgage, and if this hits the fan, I believe this will affect negatively on my employment," he said. "I do my job, go home watch TV, and go on the internet. I just like riling people up in my spare time."
[+] [-] vonklaus|10 years ago|reply
I wish more people understood this. It is a big problem with no solution. We can keep spamposting these tropes of #gurlgamers and #womenintech but the problem isn't really that these arenas are overtly hostile to women. The problem is that if you are in these arenas you are just more visible to the type of people that enjoy harassing people. I think doxxing is one of the biggest sins on the internet. Anonymity and privacy are fundamental pieces of American and Internet culture.
Doxxing someone is really the only way to stop these things happening, and even then they must actually care about what society thinks of them. Also, if you are wrong you could ruin an innocent persons life. So no easy solutions. Explaining tolerance and these angry women first campaigns alienate people from the causes. They don't harass women and are normal people. The people that actually do bad things couldn't care any less about this "education" and the flamewars this stuff starts make it all the more funny to them.
This is an insanely hard problem to solve, and it might actually not be possible to fix. The answer might be to have thick skin and hire a security company to put alarms and cameras in your house. It isn't fair to someone like the subject of this article that is an intelligent, attractive, hard working person to be punished for having these attributes, but it is an answer even if not a great one.
[+] [-] MollyR|10 years ago|reply
But I want to add a counter statistic. I've only had pleasant experiences from people trying to help me. The only shit I got in the industry was from a business manager trying to push our team into a death march.
There are many factors out in there in the world. We need to put things back into context, rather than just saying things like "Our Industry is fucked".
It feels like lately its too easy to forget the majority of people in tech (i've found) are incredibly decent human beings both men and women.
[+] [-] aaronem|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] purp|10 years ago|reply
I'm happy it hasn't impinged on your work life, and I hope it never does. And there's still folks being hurt by a malevolent minority in and around our industry.
When does that majority of incredibly decent human beings, both men and women, start to care enough that they refuse to accept this any longer?
[+] [-] aklemm|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chuckcode|10 years ago|reply
[1] http://gawker.com/5950981/unmasking-reddits-violentacrez-the...
[+] [-] TTPrograms|10 years ago|reply
It pains me to see people call that sort of thing an issue with the "tech industry", though. Not that the tech industry is perfect, but that grouping in the internet trolls with people who care and want to fix the things that do need fixing is really counter-productive when you're trying to win a war of hearts and minds.
[+] [-] vonklaus|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MarkPNeyer|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chipx86|10 years ago|reply
I don't think I know anybody who does this to women. I really hope that's because I don't actually know anyone who does, and not that people I otherwise respect are secretly doing this. How would a person know, if it's anonymous?
Well, maybe a few ways. The question is, are these all actually anonymous? Jessie's post lists messages on IRC and e-mails. I'd bet some people get harassed on Twitter, Reddit, or other widely-used platforms. Some of these people must be identifiable, surely? At the very least, some might be using the same username/e-mail address across many services, and might end up using one in relation to a job application.
The last thing I'd want is a witch hunt, where innocent people end up on the wrong end of an Internet lynch mob. What I'm about to wonder out-loud might be a bad or ill-conceived idea, but here goes:
Would it be reasonable/helpful/worthwhile to have some centralized place where these kinds of harassments can be forwarded and grouped? E-mails with headers, tweets with screenshots of the full context, IRC messages with Nickserv registration info, etc., so that repeat offenders would have a form of evidence (and I stress evidence) stacked against them? Some form of "witness" system, where other recipients (Twitter users, IRC users, etc.) can sign off that they saw this take place?
Basically, create a sort of tech industry predator list. Not everyone on there would be readily identifiable, but maybe some would be. I certainly would check it before hiring anyone, look up GitHub usernames and such, and it might help give people who don't experience this a better sense of just how terrible and prevalent this all is.
So, good idea, at least in part? Terrible idea with too much potential for further abuse? Somewhere in-between?
[+] [-] 88e282102ae2e5b|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway3880|10 years ago|reply
We need to educate people (1) How to relate to other, respectfully (2) How to get over their anger (3) Tell them this behavior is unacceptable
Tech has many misfits. There are many guys, who've spent their lives in front of computer screens, and haven't developed healthy ways of relating to other people. Yet, they can still be great at technology with the power that brings.
[+] [-] MetaCosm|10 years ago|reply
I realize it might be painful to relive a bit, but would you be willing to go into some more detail (it is a throwaway anyway). What did you do, what were you thinking as you did it, and how could someone have reached you sooner to do 1/2/3?
[+] [-] deelowe|10 years ago|reply
Either way, I hope this changes soon. There's no reason for acting like that.
[+] [-] Mithaldu|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bcg1|10 years ago|reply
It might not be YOU that does this type of thing, but someone you work with is. You know who I'm talking about and you don't shun them or expose them... and until you do, author is correct, this industry is fucked.
[+] [-] JoeAltmaier|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shawnee_|10 years ago|reply
Not sure what IRC channels she has been hanging out in, or what her spam filters are letting through, but this has not been my experience at all... in 10 years of contributing to OSS.
However, attractive female posts videos (yep, even conference talk) on the Internet, and attention ensues?
Maybe it's not an "industry" thing. Maybe it's something else.
[EDIT] -- Wow, thanks for the votes folks. The author wants to blame "the Industry" for something that is not unique to the industry.
[+] [-] yoshuaw|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pnt12|10 years ago|reply
Best of luck Jessie.
[+] [-] plorg|10 years ago|reply
It seems evident that Jess has experienced terrible things in the process of performing her job. That she would post so adamantly to her blog suggests that the problem is not going away, and she is probably not receiving much of a helpful response from the people around her, presumably including her colleagues. The obvious implication is that as male-dominated industry, most of her (male) colleagues are not familiar with the type of abuse she is receiving and, when they hear of it, are dismissive, taking an attitude of 'not my problem/job description' rather than offering support or assistance.
If that doesn't make it an industry problem, I don't know what would.
[+] [-] shykes|10 years ago|reply
But you should know that her colleagues (me included) take this super seriously, and so does our employer. We are doing everything we can to support her, and to make the attacks stop. We also want to contribute to fixing the problem beyond this one instance, and are looking for the best way to do that. If you have ideas I would love to hear them!
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] astrocyte|10 years ago|reply
Linux/open source is full of such individuals.
They do it to get a rise out of people and the internet is a nice anonymous vehicle to do it under. Has nothing to do w/ the broader industry of tech and more to do with a group of misfits who like to frazzle people for the lulz.
Get the police involved and keep these unfounded broad based attacks of a whole industry to yourself. By making such statements, you're attacking people unjustly and doing the same thing to others that is being done to you. Techies are not rapist... I could care less if you're male/female. The industry is not fucked. You just got trolled by some dweebs on the internet.
One pronounced incident and everyone is ready to cast stones at an industry.. If anything, this needs to stop. It's really getting old and, as someone who does their best to value/see people as equals as a good number in tech do, I'm getting tired of this sh*t.
[+] [-] Kapura|10 years ago|reply
And while I believe it's true that not every woman in tech gets harassed, it's obvious that a much higher percentage of them get this sort of shit than men. And it only gets worse as they get more visible for the good work that they're doing.
You say you're tired of this shit. How do you think these women feel? It's not you writing the tweets and emails, but if you become complacent and say "that's just how it is some times" you are a part of the problem.
Never stop fighting for equal treatment. Never say it's OK.
[+] [-] jdub|10 years ago|reply
It's fucking outrageously common. It might not be in your face, but it's an insidious and unrelenting horror to everyone it does affect.
It happens to be particularly bad in the tech world for a bunch of reasons, but women have a shitty time pretty much everywhere. On social media (mansplaining, innuendo, inappropriate messages, stalking, trolling, death threats), on the street (catcalling, abuse, stalking), in their homes (partner abuse)…
[+] [-] andrewvc|10 years ago|reply
I truly wish that there was a bright light I could shine over the world of software relieving the clearly disturbed souls of this woman's abusers from whatever pain it is that they act out of. It's extremely sad that my faceless colleagues have so many issues with women, and sadder still that these innocent women have to bear the brunt of it.
[+] [-] nmrm2|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blintzing|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] shockzzz|10 years ago|reply
Just google "Kathy Sierra" and see why.
[+] [-] brickmort|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomjen3|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] shykes|10 years ago|reply
1. If this is happening to you and you haven't spoken to anyone about it - please do. There is a specialized support group at https://www.crashoverridenetwork.net . Even if you feel you can handle it yourself, it will help spread awareness. Part of the problem is that not enough people are aware of just how common these attacks are.
2. This is real. She is not making it up or dramatizing it to "get attention". How incredible is it that in 2015 this needs to be said? In fact she has downplayed the whole thing for months (months of continuous harrassment!). At first I didn't understand why - but seeing some of the reactions here, sadly, I think I understand.
3. Yes, law enforcement is involved. Those people are breaking the law and must face the consequences. The good news is that they are likely to get caught. Unlike other forms of cyber-crime, this particular crime id actually quite risky if the victim is determined and well-supported. The people tracking them down are well funded and have a great track record. Speaking for her employer, we will spare no expense to make sure the people responsible get what they deserve.
4. In addition to law enforcement, if you know of a legal way to help make those people regret what they did, please contact me. Our employer will foot the bill - or if it's really too expensive for a single private company to fund, I will find money elsewhere. Forgive my French but: let's make the motherfuckers pay. This also applies to increasing the risk for future crimes like this.
5. It's true that this kind of trolling is probably not a product of the tech industry itself. It is a deeper problem that will haunt us for some time, like racism, drug abuse or road rage. HOWEVER, after reading some of the comments here, without a doubt our industry is contributing to the problem through ignorance and sometimes plain stupidity. If you're downplaying this as "just trolling", asserting that gender has nothing to do with it, complaining that women are getting unfair attention, or assuming the victim is just trying to get attention: I'm sorry to say you are part of the problem, in the same way that climate change skeptics are part of the problem. You are not voicing a valid opinion; you are ignoring facts collected over years of research and professional experience by people who know better than you. And in the process you are forcing us to keep debating the reality of the problem, when we should be focused on fixing it. So when Jess says "this industry is fucked", I say: she is right. We're allowing our fellow technologists to be victimized right under our noses, and we're basically doing nothing. So let's fix it.
6. With the help of the comic artist Laurel (who has also experienced harrassment) we made a T-shirt to raise awareness. We're going to print and share as many as possible, but if you want to pribt your own, here's the hi-res PSD: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ikdlu6gavn669l/s-dockercon-harras...