This is something I wish I had considered before going to an engineering school. Not only could I have gotten practically the same education at the local community college for much less, I may have avoided the 100+ student lecture classes my freshman and sophomore years. This was probably the most difficult adjustment for me when starting college (along with the lopsided gender ratio in engineering).
Unfortunately, as a senior at an expensive college-prep school, choosing community college would have been a huge blow to my ego. It also would have ashamed my parents, who are immigrants and place much emphasis on having the best (read: most prestigious) education possible for their children.
Community colleges and Universities typically have opposite cost/benefit curves. At most Universities the first maybe 2 years or so are spent being taught by graduate teaching fellows in giant lecture halls, you're definitely not getting your money's worth at that point. In later years you'll probably end up in smaller classes being taught by competent professors at which point you're probably getting well more than your money's worth. In community colleges you'll get an equivalent or better experience in the first few years (classes taught by actual professors) at much, much lower cost but the quality in higher level classes are lacking. If you want the best of both worlds you can pursue an associates degree at a community college and transfer to a University of your choice after to pursue a Bachelor's degree.
I went to a community college before going to UCB. I treasure my time at both, but for the first two years I am totally glad I was at a CC. There is no comparison to the attention you can get, if you want it, at a CC. I made more friends at CC, too. I found UCB a cold and competitive place compared to CC.
Not thoroughly addressed was connections. You could make arguments about the relatively equal quality of education (usually not the case), but the social capital and connections you get from attending elite universities has great value in our world. The morality of that can be debated, but it is true nonetheless.
I agree that the top universities are good places to find similarly motivated people who are likely to do great things in the future. But college is only four years of your life -- couldn't you build a valuable network by moving to a different location? The Bay Area, for example, attracts top talent in the tech industry, regardless of where they went to school.
I don't agree with many of the assertions made in this post.
> and you will receive just as good of an education
It depends on what you're being educated on. For the cookie-cutter classes every first- and second-year undergrad has to take, yes, I agree. For courses dealing in something you're deeply interested in or which involve advanced theory, it's more of a mixed bag.
> No crowded dorms, no roommate issues, know more people
For me, learning to deal with situations where I'm just a face in a crowd, having to deal with roommates I didn't always get along with, and having to make new friends because I didn't know anybody were all valuable parts of my education.
> You don’t need to take the ACT or SAT
Depends on the school.
> Employers don’t care what college you got your degree from
Depends on the employer. In an ideal world, each candidate would be judged entirely on merit and accomplishments rather than on things like schooling. However, even then going to a university will provide more opportunities to get involved with cool projects or to experiment with emergent technologies.
Not if one wants to get involved in academia or research. Frankly, I have gotten far more from working/talking with various professors and grad students then from actual class (in CS). Networking, I think, is another reason one might attend a better university. Otherwise, I would argue that most skills can be self-taught (or self-refined), and I agree that the author has some valid points.
Yeah, most of my best learning came from self-directed study under the guidance of a professor. Overall, I'd say my experiences outside of the classroom were the best part of being at a University though, and it's really what the individual makes of it.
I'd say a good public university is the best compromise, as you can get all the experiences of an expensive private school while saving a ton of money.
Pretty bold statement. In my personal experience, having good professors, and smart hard working students in a class with me makes all the difference in terms of how much I learn. While its true, just because a professor or student is at a university doesn't mean he/she is good (just like community college doesn't automatically equal bad) a university (particularly a good university), because of its admissions policies and hiring practices is going to weed out a lot of the bad. A community college will weed out hardly anyone. Not saying a community college isn't the right choice for a lot of people, just saying that there's a lot more of a difference than this top 10 list admits.
I'm wondering if professors at community colleges are in fact better at teaching, since they aren't under the pressure to "publish or perish". And at the freshman-sophomore level, isn't that more valuable?
Interesting article that brings up some valid points but did this author attend a community college? Whenever I see a generic "Top 10" post on a blog I get really suspicious.
This is going to sound condescending, but remember those kids who had no inclination to try in school and go to a good 4 year college? That's going to be at least 75% of the students there. My brother took some summer classes there and he said they were a joke.
I've heard that teaching at one sucks, and the one or two students that are truly motivated really make the job worthwhile.
I would expect to find this especially true for a math-oriented subject like programming or engineering.
Programming has always seemed like a language-oriented, not math-oriented subject to me. I think my three years of Spanish have helped my programming more than any of the calc or linear algebra I've done.
>I would expect to find this especially true for a math-oriented subject like programming or engineering.
Why do you say so? I would think that this would be more true for the humanities. If your peers aren't interested in having stimulating discussions in class, there's almost no point in being there -- whereas in technical subjects, you could always choose to work on side projects individually if the coursework isn't challenging enough.
Many of the arguments seem to assume a large university. While there are large universities, there are also some fairly small ones. While Berkeley has 25k undergrads. Stanford has 6k, and there's always Reed and so on.
At the smaller universities, many of the early classes are quite small. And, yes it's possible for 1st years to get quality time with "name" professors.
#9 Employers don’t care what college you got your degree from, only that you have a degree. Why go into debt paying for university when it won’t help you in the long run?
How come? Maybe for entry level positions, a recent grad from MIT with no experience would get more offers than a similarly inexperienced grad from a second tier school or a community college. But what if the second grad worked co-ops or had more projects under his or her belt? Wouldn't that be more valuable to a company?
[+] [-] anuleczka|16 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, as a senior at an expensive college-prep school, choosing community college would have been a huge blow to my ego. It also would have ashamed my parents, who are immigrants and place much emphasis on having the best (read: most prestigious) education possible for their children.
[+] [-] InclinedPlane|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] e40|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kingkawn|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anuleczka|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nathanb|16 years ago|reply
> and you will receive just as good of an education
It depends on what you're being educated on. For the cookie-cutter classes every first- and second-year undergrad has to take, yes, I agree. For courses dealing in something you're deeply interested in or which involve advanced theory, it's more of a mixed bag.
> No crowded dorms, no roommate issues, know more people
For me, learning to deal with situations where I'm just a face in a crowd, having to deal with roommates I didn't always get along with, and having to make new friends because I didn't know anybody were all valuable parts of my education.
> You don’t need to take the ACT or SAT
Depends on the school.
> Employers don’t care what college you got your degree from
Depends on the employer. In an ideal world, each candidate would be judged entirely on merit and accomplishments rather than on things like schooling. However, even then going to a university will provide more opportunities to get involved with cool projects or to experiment with emergent technologies.
[+] [-] unignorant|16 years ago|reply
Not if one wants to get involved in academia or research. Frankly, I have gotten far more from working/talking with various professors and grad students then from actual class (in CS). Networking, I think, is another reason one might attend a better university. Otherwise, I would argue that most skills can be self-taught (or self-refined), and I agree that the author has some valid points.
[+] [-] mtalantikite|16 years ago|reply
I'd say a good public university is the best compromise, as you can get all the experiences of an expensive private school while saving a ton of money.
[+] [-] rauljara|16 years ago|reply
Pretty bold statement. In my personal experience, having good professors, and smart hard working students in a class with me makes all the difference in terms of how much I learn. While its true, just because a professor or student is at a university doesn't mean he/she is good (just like community college doesn't automatically equal bad) a university (particularly a good university), because of its admissions policies and hiring practices is going to weed out a lot of the bad. A community college will weed out hardly anyone. Not saying a community college isn't the right choice for a lot of people, just saying that there's a lot more of a difference than this top 10 list admits.
[+] [-] anuleczka|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] biznerd|16 years ago|reply
This is going to sound condescending, but remember those kids who had no inclination to try in school and go to a good 4 year college? That's going to be at least 75% of the students there. My brother took some summer classes there and he said they were a joke.
I've heard that teaching at one sucks, and the one or two students that are truly motivated really make the job worthwhile.
I would expect to find this especially true for a math-oriented subject like programming or engineering.
[+] [-] epall|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anuleczka|16 years ago|reply
Why do you say so? I would think that this would be more true for the humanities. If your peers aren't interested in having stimulating discussions in class, there's almost no point in being there -- whereas in technical subjects, you could always choose to work on side projects individually if the coursework isn't challenging enough.
[+] [-] unknown|16 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nfnaaron|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anamax|16 years ago|reply
At the smaller universities, many of the early classes are quite small. And, yes it's possible for 1st years to get quality time with "name" professors.
[+] [-] eventhough|16 years ago|reply
I could not disagree more.
[+] [-] anuleczka|16 years ago|reply