> In 2006, reddit was sold to Conde Nast. It was soon obvious to many that the sale had been premature, the site was unmanaged and under-resourced under the old-media giant who simply didn't understand it and could never realize its full potential, so the founders and their allies in Y-Combinator (where reddit had been born) hatched an audacious plan to re-extract reddit from the clutches of the 100-year-old media conglomerate.
> Together with Sam Altman, they recruited a young up-and-coming technology manager with social media credentials. Alexis, who was on the interview panel for the new reddit CEO, would reject all other candidates except this one. The manager was to insist as a condition of taking the job that Conde Nast would have to give up significant ownership of the company, first to employees by justifying the need for equity to be able to hire top talent, bringing in Silicon Valley insiders to help run the company. After continuing to grow the company, he would then further dilute Conde Nast's ownership by raising money from a syndicate of Silicon Valley investors led by Sam Altman, now the President of Y-Combinator itself, who in the process would take a seat on the board.
> Once this was done, he and his team would manufacture a series of otherwise-improbable leadership crises, forcing the new board to scramble to find a new CEO, allowing Altman to use his position on the board to advocate for the re-introduction of the old founders, installing them on the board and as CEO, thus returning the company to their control and relegating Conde Nast to a position as minority shareholder.
It's interesting that people criticized Pao for not being very engaged with the Reddit community (she was famously dinged for not knowing how to send a private message). Yishan Wong's repeated indiscretions show the downside of having Reddit's CEO also be an active Redditor.
"Is this a joke?" is the wrong question. Yishan believes this is what happened. Rather, the question should be "is Yishan's perception of the events what actually happened?"
Remember, Yishan is biased. He quit under fire from the board, and is a big fan of Ellen Pao. That doesn't make him wrong (or right); just biased.
If this isn't a joke, he and a ton of other people are going to be sued into the ground for this. If it is a joke, then he and a ton of other people are going to be investigated and possibly sued anyway.
It is the nature of the role of CEO that you're going to take the heat for all company decisions. That's one of the justifications for their outsized compensation. Greater risk = greater reward. No one is forced to be CEO and being an executive essentially means you live your life on the line every day. It's not for everyone.
There was another thread on this earlier today and I think my comment there is applicable here too...
--
Yishan seems to love to do stuff like this. While I personally find it interesting, it also seems pretty unprofessional. Some issues with this particular comment:
1. Yishan no longer works at Reddit so I don't think he can be considered an authoritative source for what happened.
2. Yishan appointed Pao so isn't unbiased when discussing her.
3. The CEO's job is to represent the company. The chairman's job is to appoint the CEO. The outcome of events seems correct even if what Yishan says is true.
reply
> It is the nature of the role of CEO that you're going to take the heat for all company decisions. That's one of the justifications for their outsized compensation. Greater risk = greater reward. No one is forced to be CEO and being an executive essentially means you live your life on the line every day. It's not for everyone.
I rather doubt that Ellen Pao's job description included "Dive under the bus to cover up bad decisions of coworkers too cowardly to own them."
My suspicion is that Victoria was terminated for entirely legitimate reasons unrelated to the operation of /r/IAmA. She was a valuable employee and community member, and I don't believe the Reddit administration is foolish enough to remove her just because they wanted to modify (and possibly monetize) the format of AmAs. Much of the Reddit community frequently forgets that Reddit is a business (owned by a multinational media conglomerate, no less) that sometimes needs to make business decisions.
I don't think the community forgot Reddit is a business, I think it's the other way. Reddit's management forgot that the community is a huge part of what makes Reddit successful and if you go against them, you're not going to have a fun time.
That's why they kept bringing up the situations with mod tools, lack of communication, and so on.
> My suspicion is that Victoria was terminated for entirely legitimate reasons unrelated to the operation of /r/IAmA.
If so, I really don't understand why there hasn't been an official justification yet. So much of the rage could have been defused by a prompt and earnest explanation of why she was fired. The fact that that hasn't happened seems to imply that the real reason would only make people angrier.
IIRC, it was also known from the beginning that the r/ShitNiggersSay et al. were banned, not for being offensive, but for doxxing people in violation of Reddit's few explicit rules. Once the mob locks on target, inconvenient little details like that tend to vanish.
Except /u/kn0thing reported Ellen according to a former SVP, /u/kickme444 who was the other employee getting fired that started this whole thing [1]. Additionally, Dacvak was fired by Ellen for having cancer proving Ellen was making the personnel decisions. His comments were deleted due to a non-disparagement clause but could be found here [2].
> I'm very curious to see if Alexis is responsible for the firing, then shouldn't the backlash against Ellen Pao change to be against Alexis Ohanian?
Yes and no. Yes there should be outrage directed at him but the buck ultimately stops with the CEO and the firing was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. I have not doubt Alexis shares some of the blame but Pao had failed the moderators and the community at large in other ways and her leaving was probably best for Reddit.
This was my main takeaway from the article. Ellen's changes to hate speech rules caused some backlash, but it sounds like she had nothing to do with Victoria's firing.
The backlash was centered around the lack of communication and heads up to the mod teams.
We don't know if it was "she needs to be fired right now, immediately" or if it was "she is not a part of future plans". If it's the former then you can put the blame on Alexis but if Pao was not being pressured to fire her immediately then she could have in theory worked with the mod teams before letting Victoria go.
> The protest was the latest episode in nine months of tumult for Reddit, a highly popular internet message board which has more than 160 million monthly visitors. Under Ms. Pao’s leadership, many users of the site have been upset with what they have perceived as major challenges to free speech and a lack of censorship. In May, Reddit users revolted when the company instituted stricter guidelines against prohibiting harassment on the site.
The first emphasized sentence makes sense (barely); the challenges are to both free speech and a lack of censorship. The wording sucks, but it could be worse.
The second sentence, on the other hand, is plain nonsensical.
This is very similar to one of the reports swirling before. If true, it is pretty awful for Alexis to keep letting Ellen Pao take the hit for it. There are other reasons that people dislike Mrs. Pao, but she doesn't need this final straw if it is truly Alexis' straw to bear.
You're not new here, so you probably already know this, but when HN users flag a story, the story gets demoted. A sufficient number of flags kills the story altogether.
This is a very flaggable submission and that's probably what's happening.
Why would Reddit have had a hard time simply installing Ohanian or Huffman as the CEO? Why would they need covert machinations to put the founders back at the helm?
Reddit isn't Twitter or Facebook where a post on the wall is fine. Reddit is a discussion platform which requires a bigger time commitment.
Having the goal to have celebrities / famous figures be part of the reddit community seems rather naive. Given the time commitment, it would seem that the pool of potential AmA's would dry up. Also, having Victoria do the leg work would seem familiar to celebrities who would view it as normal to have an event handler.
Just doesn't make sense. Sure, quickly eliminate someone's role, but why immediately fire the person? Why not even try to transition the person to a new role? Was she employed as an independent contractor?
Reddit clearly has both plenty of money, and plenty of work to be done. This explanation doesn't add up at all.
[+] [-] gadtfly|10 years ago|reply
> Here's one.
> In 2006, reddit was sold to Conde Nast. It was soon obvious to many that the sale had been premature, the site was unmanaged and under-resourced under the old-media giant who simply didn't understand it and could never realize its full potential, so the founders and their allies in Y-Combinator (where reddit had been born) hatched an audacious plan to re-extract reddit from the clutches of the 100-year-old media conglomerate.
> Together with Sam Altman, they recruited a young up-and-coming technology manager with social media credentials. Alexis, who was on the interview panel for the new reddit CEO, would reject all other candidates except this one. The manager was to insist as a condition of taking the job that Conde Nast would have to give up significant ownership of the company, first to employees by justifying the need for equity to be able to hire top talent, bringing in Silicon Valley insiders to help run the company. After continuing to grow the company, he would then further dilute Conde Nast's ownership by raising money from a syndicate of Silicon Valley investors led by Sam Altman, now the President of Y-Combinator itself, who in the process would take a seat on the board.
> Once this was done, he and his team would manufacture a series of otherwise-improbable leadership crises, forcing the new board to scramble to find a new CEO, allowing Altman to use his position on the board to advocate for the re-introduction of the old founders, installing them on the board and as CEO, thus returning the company to their control and relegating Conde Nast to a position as minority shareholder.
> JUST KIDDING. There's no way that could happen.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3cs78i/whats_the...
[+] [-] tptacek|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gkoberger|10 years ago|reply
Remember, Yishan is biased. He quit under fire from the board, and is a big fan of Ellen Pao. That doesn't make him wrong (or right); just biased.
[+] [-] revelation|10 years ago|reply
Whats the best long con you ever pulled?
[+] [-] fnordfnordfnord|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rjbwork|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amyjess|10 years ago|reply
If this isn't a joke, he and a ton of other people are going to be sued into the ground for this. If it is a joke, then he and a ton of other people are going to be investigated and possibly sued anyway.
[+] [-] exstudent2|10 years ago|reply
There was another thread on this earlier today and I think my comment there is applicable here too...
--
Yishan seems to love to do stuff like this. While I personally find it interesting, it also seems pretty unprofessional. Some issues with this particular comment:
1. Yishan no longer works at Reddit so I don't think he can be considered an authoritative source for what happened.
2. Yishan appointed Pao so isn't unbiased when discussing her.
3. The CEO's job is to represent the company. The chairman's job is to appoint the CEO. The outcome of events seems correct even if what Yishan says is true. reply
[+] [-] PhasmaFelis|10 years ago|reply
I rather doubt that Ellen Pao's job description included "Dive under the bus to cover up bad decisions of coworkers too cowardly to own them."
Stop making excuses for assholes.
[+] [-] techman9|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikhailt|10 years ago|reply
That's why they kept bringing up the situations with mod tools, lack of communication, and so on.
[+] [-] PhasmaFelis|10 years ago|reply
If so, I really don't understand why there hasn't been an official justification yet. So much of the rage could have been defused by a prompt and earnest explanation of why she was fired. The fact that that hasn't happened seems to imply that the real reason would only make people angrier.
[+] [-] glibgil|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] okasaki|10 years ago|reply
> Chooter (Victoria) was let go as an admin by /u/kn0thing.
[+] [-] PhasmaFelis|10 years ago|reply
IIRC, it was also known from the beginning that the r/ShitNiggersSay et al. were banned, not for being offensive, but for doxxing people in violation of Reddit's few explicit rules. Once the mob locks on target, inconvenient little details like that tend to vanish.
[+] [-] jn1234|10 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/3d2hv3/kn0t...
[2] https://archive.is/kfrFM
[+] [-] midniteslayr|10 years ago|reply
I'm very curious to see if Alexis is responsible for the firing, then shouldn't the backlash against Ellen Pao change to be against Alexis Ohanian?
[+] [-] joshstrange|10 years ago|reply
Yes and no. Yes there should be outrage directed at him but the buck ultimately stops with the CEO and the firing was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. I have not doubt Alexis shares some of the blame but Pao had failed the moderators and the community at large in other ways and her leaving was probably best for Reddit.
[+] [-] tptacek|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theseatoms|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rodgerd|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mason240|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xd1936|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mason55|10 years ago|reply
We don't know if it was "she needs to be fired right now, immediately" or if it was "she is not a part of future plans". If it's the former then you can put the blame on Alexis but if Pao was not being pressured to fire her immediately then she could have in theory worked with the mod teams before letting Victoria go.
[+] [-] markbnj|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tptacek|10 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9880953
http://blog.samaltman.com/a-new-team-at-reddit
[+] [-] habitue|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zigurd|10 years ago|reply
Ohanian seemed content to use Ellen Pao as a meatshield, whether she deserved it or not.
Imagine that: A Silicon Valley soap opera with no heros.
[+] [-] itsdrewmiller|10 years ago|reply
> The protest was the latest episode in nine months of tumult for Reddit, a highly popular internet message board which has more than 160 million monthly visitors. Under Ms. Pao’s leadership, many users of the site have been upset with what they have perceived as major challenges to free speech and a lack of censorship. In May, Reddit users revolted when the company instituted stricter guidelines against prohibiting harassment on the site.
[+] [-] yellowapple|10 years ago|reply
The second sentence, on the other hand, is plain nonsensical.
[+] [-] bpicolo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PhasmaFelis|10 years ago|reply
And they had such a good track record up 'til now.
[+] [-] jonlucc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AndrewKemendo|10 years ago|reply
In comparison there are currently older posts with less points or comments on the HN front page.
Obviously someone at YC/HN is driving this story down.
[+] [-] thaumaturgy|10 years ago|reply
This is a very flaggable submission and that's probably what's happening.
[+] [-] throwaway47386|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tptacek|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codingdave|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] protomyth|10 years ago|reply
Having the goal to have celebrities / famous figures be part of the reddit community seems rather naive. Given the time commitment, it would seem that the pool of potential AmA's would dry up. Also, having Victoria do the leg work would seem familiar to celebrities who would view it as normal to have an event handler.
[+] [-] solve|10 years ago|reply
Reddit clearly has both plenty of money, and plenty of work to be done. This explanation doesn't add up at all.
[+] [-] gesman|10 years ago|reply
Regardless, I think with her reputation and respect - she'll likely be doing something even more exciting.
She's wisely avoiding stirring muddy waters for now...