A nitpick that is somewhat related to the thesis, but I think still relevant: I dislike how success in this context is completely centered around raising money, and nothing to do with actually running a profitable company and delivering value.
The main point of the article was to run a LinkedIn ad to get accepted into AngelPad and raise money, and that's totally fair (and commendable!).
But sprinkled throughout the article, there are quotes like:
> I've co-founded two startups that have raised ~$90 million in venture capital (Shyp and Vungle) and have created hundreds of jobs in five different countries.
> Vungle has grown to hundreds of employees and over $25 million in funding.
Is that really the metric of success we're going for? Give anybody $90 million and they can pretty trivially create hundreds of jobs.
I don't know what Vungle's revenue is, but if we're not in a bubble yet, raising a bunch of money, leaving the company, and touting it "hustling" isn't helping.
EDIT: I'd like to clarify briefly that I'm not downplaying raising money. Going out and fundraising is really hard (I've done it), but so aren't dozens of other tasks at a company.
+1 to anybody who is able to successfully bring in funding, but I've met too many people who have felt like their company has "made it" once they've raised money -- when in fact that's just the beginning.
Raising money is "just the beginning" for a company but for many people, including most founders and early employees who raise the funding, it's really the beginning of the end.
With funding comes outside pressure from investors that seeps into and permeates the entire venture. The pressure to show rapid growth, alone, changes what kind of people get hired, how their responsibilities are structured, and how they interact with the pre-funding team. Founders will be pushed out or replaced by career executives from the industry, early employees will be managed out or grow bored with the monotony of an established business, and anyone involved in raising the initial rounds will likely be way out of their depth by the time growth stage funding rolls around.
Let's face it, we monkeys like shiny trophies for well quantified metrics to put on our wall and taking credit for a bunch of zeroes on a check is a lot more practical than for the sum of all of the work and value added by a company that survives for years or decades after you leave it.
I agree that we shouldn't celebrate raising money. Unfortunately that is just a standout metric that many companies are still judged on and was added at the start of the article to give some credibility.
it wouldn't have been as catchy if the title was "here's a tactic that helped me start a company that became profitable and delivering value" ;)
> The word “hustle” has lost its meaning. Everyone who works hard is called a “hustler,” even if they don’t win. Fuck conceptualization of ‘hustling’ as working hard. I only care about results. A great hustle without results isn’t a great hustle. With this hustle, my goal was to get the attention of the AngelPad founder.
are just downright blatant and uncomfortable. If everybody thinks in this way then we're doomed. Unfortunately nowadays many do seem to do so.
I have heard that Vungle is doing well financially, so I'd say that's success.
I don't know about Shyp tho, but they have a lot of buzz and an innovative product, which in my mind is a success...although they still have a LONG way to go to prove themselves. So I get your point. I don't think funding is defines success, but more so a strong sign that your on your way making something work. And I totally agree...funding in itself isn't something you should brag about.
However, the # of jobs Jack helped create IMHO is 100% a success. It's super rewarding and changes lives (most of the time) in a great way.
I am writing the above with respect - I do the exact same thing, re-use and re-cycle great content as often as you can, it's a might harder to create the story than to perpetuate it and market it.
yeah, it's been written about before, but I wanted to clarify the exact steps that I took, as the previous articles have been a bit hazy. Per the Pando article "Using a handful of techniques that he still seems to shy away from talking about" and as you highlight, an "adwords hack" is a very bad description.
I haven't read that article from PG, I'll definitely check it out!
I have a LinkedIn with ~50 connections, but I know of no one who uses it for anything other than an online resume. People i know might go on once every two weeks, if that. It's strange to me that someone would be active enough on here to notice an ad like this. Whose experience is abnormal here?
I think that it was especially relevant in this case as the guy running the incubator was on LinkedIn checking the profiles of all the people that were applying.
Are people trying to get in touch with you regularly for business purposes? On the flip side, are you trying to get in touch with them?
My LinkedIn is pretty invaluable for scoping out potential clients and making an initial approach. I don't usually try to use InMails, but I'll figure out the right person to talk to and make an email approach with that information.
Some of their discussion groups are excellent if you can overlook the spam and the clueless students (and even some of those turn into worthwhile or at least humorous discussions). I get email notifications of posts in several embedded systems groups and check them every few days, more often if there's a good ongoing thread.
Jaksmit if you are still around responding I am curious...if only 2 people clicked your ad including the target himself, then how is it the very next day after the ad was created the target was "inundated with emails from his friends telling him to check out our landing page"?
@will_brown + @WalterGR sorry that it was unclear. This was one ad-campaign targeting just Thomas (+ 6 randomers). I ran a number of other variations targeting investors that were connected to him and others in his network. These still didn't target too many people (I'd say <100); but still got a lot of attention.
I'm also guessing that some people might have just told him they'd seen his face on a LinkedIn ad. Not necessarily clicked through to it.
Here's a free idea to b2b startups: before you go into a sales meeting with someone, spend some pocket money putting your ad in front of them via linkedin / facebook.
They'll likely attribute it to "frequency illusion" and you'll gain a much higher profile in their eyes.
Unfortunately, now this method will be flooded, and everyone of note in SV will be inundated with similar ads. But it is an interesting case study in how to be creative and think outside the box.
Facebook recently paid me a bounty for pointing out a problem that enabled this type of pinpoint targeting accuracy on their ad platform despite a policy that greatly limited it. It's interesting that LinkedIn doesn't consider it a privacy problem. I noticed that you could create custom audiences for ads by simply using anyone's FB vanity URL and appending @facebook.com to target by email. So if the vanity url of the target was facebook.com/mark, then you could target an ad to that person by simply adding [email protected] to a custom audience list. They have now fixed it, but this same thing the author did here could have also been done on FB until about 2 months ago (and can still be done, but now you need their actual email address to target them).
I wish I'd known this back when I was actually running Facebook ads. I'm glad it was pointed out to them, but would have been great to know as I worked at an early large-scale FB advertiser.
I found this exploit a while back; when I checked more recently, the minimum number of people that you need to target in order for an ad to be accepted is closer to 1000. So it's harder to replicate.
similarly, with the facebook thing. I saw that Facebook is rolling back usage of the facebook.com email addresses, so I'm not sure how long that will keep working.
Smart, but are you legally allowed to use people's photo in ads without their permission? (Not a big issue in this case and probably it would have worked even without the photo, but I'm curious.)
I'm not sure if it's 'legally' allowed. It's almost definitely against LinkedIn's terms of service I'd imagine though!
I'd think that with anything like this; if it were illegal, then likely the individual themselves would have to sue me. Hopefully they wouldn't want to take it that far once I explained to them that I was just targeting them and trying to get their attention etc. Certainly for Thomas, Vungle turned out to be quite a good investment thus far and a nice story, so I hope he wont sue me ;)
Lovely beginning, but the narrative suddenly goes dark 3 paragraphs from the end, with the line: "Whilst I'm no longer at the company ..."
So what happened!?!? I'd love to believe that anyone with such a clever hack could get some mileage out of whatever came next. Alas, it sounds as if this is the classic Cinderella story with only mice and pumpkins at the end. Darn! A follow-up post with the rest of the story would be very welcome.
fair point. I mainly wanted to focus here on the aftermath of the linkedin campaign.
The sequence of events basically was:
- Thursday saw the TC post, same day created Linkedin ad campaign
- Friday got a call from Thomas
- next week we got the final spot (on about a Thursday)
- about 3 days later we were on a flight to san francisco to join Angelpad (+ $120k at this point)
- about 10 weeks after moving to San Francisco we started raising our seed round. We ended up raising ~$2 mil led by Google Ventures
- about a year later raised $6.5mil Series A
- about a year after that raised $17m Series B
- after that the company kept growing and has opened offices in various countries etc
for myself personally, I moved more towards advising a few different startups.
I'm not getting how this is a hack and any different to just using LI's targeted ads as they are intended. Last time I checked the minimum was 1000 people.
The beautiful thing about this hack is it subverts the modern consumers expectation about how advertising works. We have an assumption it is a broadcast medium - and that has changed radically, and totally.
This hack will continue to work for as long as we fool ourselves as to the new nature of the world
[+] [-] aclimatt|10 years ago|reply
The main point of the article was to run a LinkedIn ad to get accepted into AngelPad and raise money, and that's totally fair (and commendable!).
But sprinkled throughout the article, there are quotes like:
> I've co-founded two startups that have raised ~$90 million in venture capital (Shyp and Vungle) and have created hundreds of jobs in five different countries.
> Vungle has grown to hundreds of employees and over $25 million in funding.
Is that really the metric of success we're going for? Give anybody $90 million and they can pretty trivially create hundreds of jobs.
I don't know what Vungle's revenue is, but if we're not in a bubble yet, raising a bunch of money, leaving the company, and touting it "hustling" isn't helping.
EDIT: I'd like to clarify briefly that I'm not downplaying raising money. Going out and fundraising is really hard (I've done it), but so aren't dozens of other tasks at a company.
+1 to anybody who is able to successfully bring in funding, but I've met too many people who have felt like their company has "made it" once they've raised money -- when in fact that's just the beginning.
[+] [-] akiselev|10 years ago|reply
With funding comes outside pressure from investors that seeps into and permeates the entire venture. The pressure to show rapid growth, alone, changes what kind of people get hired, how their responsibilities are structured, and how they interact with the pre-funding team. Founders will be pushed out or replaced by career executives from the industry, early employees will be managed out or grow bored with the monotony of an established business, and anyone involved in raising the initial rounds will likely be way out of their depth by the time growth stage funding rolls around.
Let's face it, we monkeys like shiny trophies for well quantified metrics to put on our wall and taking credit for a bunch of zeroes on a check is a lot more practical than for the sum of all of the work and value added by a company that survives for years or decades after you leave it.
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
it wouldn't have been as catchy if the title was "here's a tactic that helped me start a company that became profitable and delivering value" ;)
[+] [-] SZJX|10 years ago|reply
> The word “hustle” has lost its meaning. Everyone who works hard is called a “hustler,” even if they don’t win. Fuck conceptualization of ‘hustling’ as working hard. I only care about results. A great hustle without results isn’t a great hustle. With this hustle, my goal was to get the attention of the AngelPad founder.
are just downright blatant and uncomfortable. If everybody thinks in this way then we're doomed. Unfortunately nowadays many do seem to do so.
[+] [-] samp615|10 years ago|reply
I don't know about Shyp tho, but they have a lot of buzz and an innovative product, which in my mind is a success...although they still have a LONG way to go to prove themselves. So I get your point. I don't think funding is defines success, but more so a strong sign that your on your way making something work. And I totally agree...funding in itself isn't something you should brag about.
However, the # of jobs Jack helped create IMHO is 100% a success. It's super rewarding and changes lives (most of the time) in a great way.
[+] [-] aresant|10 years ago|reply
The story starts in 2012 when it was a "Adwords hack" ->
https://pando.com/2012/05/02/vungles-co-founders-hustle-thei...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogeron/2012/06/25/dont-try-t...
And the wheelworks started again in April of this year ->
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-linkedin-hack-that-turned...
I am writing the above with respect - I do the exact same thing, re-use and re-cycle great content as often as you can, it's a might harder to create the story than to perpetuate it and market it.
The basics are covered brilliantly in PG's "The Submarine" if you haven't seen it http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
I haven't read that article from PG, I'll definitely check it out!
[+] [-] quadrature|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mendelk|10 years ago|reply
Someone did something similar using FB to prank their friend:
http://mysocialsherpa.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-...
HN discussion:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8330931
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PascLeRasc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eropple|10 years ago|reply
My LinkedIn is pretty invaluable for scoping out potential clients and making an initial approach. I don't usually try to use InMails, but I'll figure out the right person to talk to and make an email approach with that information.
[+] [-] samp615|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mandeepj|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jpindar|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] will_brown|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
I'm also guessing that some people might have just told him they'd seen his face on a LinkedIn ad. Not necessarily clicked through to it.
[+] [-] pbnjay|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WalterGR|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mpeg|10 years ago|reply
They'll likely attribute it to "frequency illusion" and you'll gain a much higher profile in their eyes.
Then close it. :)
[+] [-] yumraj|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] downandout|10 years ago|reply
Facebook recently paid me a bounty for pointing out a problem that enabled this type of pinpoint targeting accuracy on their ad platform despite a policy that greatly limited it. It's interesting that LinkedIn doesn't consider it a privacy problem. I noticed that you could create custom audiences for ads by simply using anyone's FB vanity URL and appending @facebook.com to target by email. So if the vanity url of the target was facebook.com/mark, then you could target an ad to that person by simply adding [email protected] to a custom audience list. They have now fixed it, but this same thing the author did here could have also been done on FB until about 2 months ago (and can still be done, but now you need their actual email address to target them).
[+] [-] the_watcher|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
similarly, with the facebook thing. I saw that Facebook is rolling back usage of the facebook.com email addresses, so I'm not sure how long that will keep working.
[+] [-] misiti3780|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maaarghk|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] misiti3780|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spyder|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
I'd think that with anything like this; if it were illegal, then likely the individual themselves would have to sue me. Hopefully they wouldn't want to take it that far once I explained to them that I was just targeting them and trying to get their attention etc. Certainly for Thomas, Vungle turned out to be quite a good investment thus far and a nice story, so I hope he wont sue me ;)
[+] [-] GCA10|10 years ago|reply
So what happened!?!? I'd love to believe that anyone with such a clever hack could get some mileage out of whatever came next. Alas, it sounds as if this is the classic Cinderella story with only mice and pumpkins at the end. Darn! A follow-up post with the rest of the story would be very welcome.
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
The sequence of events basically was: - Thursday saw the TC post, same day created Linkedin ad campaign - Friday got a call from Thomas - next week we got the final spot (on about a Thursday) - about 3 days later we were on a flight to san francisco to join Angelpad (+ $120k at this point) - about 10 weeks after moving to San Francisco we started raising our seed round. We ended up raising ~$2 mil led by Google Ventures - about a year later raised $6.5mil Series A - about a year after that raised $17m Series B - after that the company kept growing and has opened offices in various countries etc
for myself personally, I moved more towards advising a few different startups.
[+] [-] giech|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Phr34Ck|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samp615|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dreamfactory2|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
I'm pretty sure LinkedIn ads weren't intended to have a picture of the guy's face who you're targeting as the ad though!
[+] [-] brianpetro_|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kkt262|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] orliesaurus|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lifeisstillgood|10 years ago|reply
This hack will continue to work for as long as we fool ourselves as to the new nature of the world
[+] [-] woof|10 years ago|reply
And wouldn't this have worked just as well if he had targeted all employees of AngelPad? The CPM would still be pretty low...
[+] [-] jaksmit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rogerh91|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]