getmeoutofhere's comments

On a per capita basis, China is still very much a developing / middle income country. I agree that special amendments should be made because a country of 50,000 people with Chinas gdp per capita faces a very different economic situation than China, though.

Why are you purposely being unfaithful in your argument here? I can easily search up multiple cases where foreign companies have applied the rule of law and won in China. The rules are clear to Google and they simply chose not to follow it. They tried to follow to follow the rules with Project Dragonfly until their own employees scuttled the project, but that’s on Google.

The existence of Bing proves that it’s possible to operate a foreign search engine in China.

Can you elaborate? You essentially just hand waved over my points and said "because Pakistan, Israel."

This is an alt account for personal safety and privacy reasons. People have tried to dig through my account (as you have done) and interfere with my personal life. In the past, I have received messages that have been a cause for concern while using my personal account.

For future reference, insinuating someone is a shill or a foreign agent is explicitly against HN guidelines, as it degrades the quality of the discussion.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

1. Where is the hard evidence? I saw a lot of B-roll footage with he-said-she-said, but no hard evidence of the organ harvesting or hair harvesting you claimed in your original post. We cannot rely on testimonials because as history shows [4], testimonials are easily fabricated.

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)

2. Actually cites the exact same Vice documentary you linked in (1).

3. Cites Rushan Abbas, who worked in Guantanamo and for Radio Free Asia (a literal US propaganda outlet) [5]

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushan_Abbas

4. Quotes Adrian Zenz, which as I said in my original reply, cannot be considered a quality source. He doesn't speak, read, or write Chinese, and AFAIK hasn't spent anytime in China. His methodology for calculating the population of imprisoned Quighurs consists of interviewing a dozen people for estimations, and then extrapolating these figures across the entire population of Xinjiang. He produces figures, that on the face of it make no sense (1.8 million people imprisoned, three times the size of San Francisco). Is also NPR, which is US funded and cannot be considered an impartial source, given the geopolitical rivalry between China and the US.

As I said earlier, these claims all originate from the same sources (Adrian Zenz, World Uighur Congress), but if you dig into their methodologies or funding sources, you quickly see how murky the details get.

5. Cites Falun Gong, which is a literal cult, akin to Scientology. Experts at the WHO have called into question these claims [6], and the US embassy staff conducted an investigation in 2006 and found no such occurances [7]

[6] https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/08/20/transplant...

[7] https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http:/www.america...

Explain to me why Sunni Muslim (same as Uighur) countries like Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, and the UAE signed the letter in support of China, all of whom obtain more funding, arms, and security from the US than China?

"Muslim Pakistan says outcry over China detention camps ‘sensationalized’"

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1423536/world

37 countries have also signed a UNHRC letter in support of China's Xinjiang policies, the majority of whom are Muslim countries, and these countries include traditional US allies such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Kuwait.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/which-countries-are-for-or-a...

FWIW, the number of countries in support of Xinjiang have increased to 46 at the time of this comment.

I'll bite. Cite your sources and I'll address them.

> After reading your bio, I'm not surprised that it's full of comments defending the CCP.

Maybe it's because some of us grew up watching the horrors of the Iraq war, and the immense duplicity, chaos, and waste of human potential? Those who opposed the Iraq war were overwhelmingly silenced back then and I refuse to let the same happen now.

You just ignored what I said and straw-manned the specific nature of being banned.

As I said in my previous post, both can operate in China if they choose to comply with Chinese laws. Hotmail and iCloud do, and both works fine in China.

Google and Facebook being banned is no different than if they'd been banned for not complying with GDPR in EU.

You cited various Asian countries, but literally every one of those countries paved the same path as China. Authoritarianism with protectionism (as allowed by the rules of WTO developing nations), followed by economic prosperity and democratization.

China's actions are actually legal under 1. WTO rules which allow developing nations to have some sort of protectionism to foster their own industries, and 2. Their own laws, which companies can choose to abide by.

Google and Facebook were never wholesale banned by China. You can see this with the fact that Google tried to re-enter China with project Dragonfly (a China-law compliant search engine), until it internally became politically unfeasible. Note that Microsoft operates Bing in China, and Yahoo as well.

> Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions.

If you dig into this deeper, this is literally fake news. The sources for these claims are either the World Uighur Congress, a NED funded organization, or Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist who believes in the rapture, is Anti-LGBT, and praised the Nazis.

If you are so inclined, you can actually visit Xinjiang yourself and ask Uighurs there about the situation. China has been actively been encouraging foreign inspectors to visit Xinjiang to see the situation.

Given that America was wrong (or blatantly lied) about WMDs, Iraqis stealing incubators, Iraqis murdering babies in Kuwait, and is a geopolitical rival to China, Im doubtful about some of these claims.

It's a little bit disingenuous to compare the White Terror to the Great Leap Forward, no? As per your original post, we are comparing the brutality and political suppression of the respective regimes, not their governing abilities.

Surely this is a joke right? The white terror in Taiwan on a per capita basis was more brutal than anything in China. People were summarily executed, jailed, and robbed for even the slightest hints of anti-establishment sympathies.

Are you saying this as an ex-Googler / current Googler? Otherwise, please give some citations for some of your claims.