limandoc's comments

I have my own reasons why I left Obsidian and now building LimanDoc[1]. The enormous learning curve and a constant OCD itch (that I like to scratch) made me realise I am not actually improving my knowledge system. A constant hoarding is also putting an emotional pressure.

I like the offline part, but for me Canvas was the best tool. I am also building a P2P synchronization feature for LimanDoc, and having offline LLM support is coming soon too

[1] https://limandoc.com/

This is the core principle of LimanDoc.com I am building, a canvas that holds files and diagrams, but most importantly an inner board (a folder) that you can see through.

Hi hackers! Last time[1] I received a lot of feedback and compliments for LimanDoc which motivated me to write about what actually drives me to continue the development. I am curious to discuss these with you, specifically: do you miss these features/ideas in other similar applications?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41878836.

Edit: I see that AWS struggles, here is the post:

---- Over a dozen different note-taking, knowledge management, and productivity tools were tried before I started ideating over something simple, something visual, yet powerful enough to satisfy my needs. The vision was born not instantly - but over extensive research of what I want, what people love and dislike in other tools, and what I can actually program. As a software engineer, the last task was the easiest.

Other tools often end up locking into restrictive structures, endless information hoarding, and dependence on cloud systems that may not be around tomorrow. I have outlined a set of principles designed to give me true ownership and freedom over my knowledgebase. Here’s why I started this journey, perhaps you can find yourself here too.

1. File Is The King

In tools like Notion, we’re locked into proprietary “blocks” and structures that can’t easily transition into other programs. A file, in contrast, is universally accessible and can live independently of any single platform. I needed a tool that handles files so that I could use them with other apps. As an example, I want to visualize PDFs, Excel/Word, Markdown, and images, but edit or sign them with other programs.

What would happen if a tool like Notion or Evernote were to disappear tomorrow? Of course, you can export everything to HTML or PDF, but that is yucky to work with later on. With LimanDoc, my files are mine, forever, and I can use them wherever and with whatever other app I want.

2. Offline First

Cloud-based tools promise convenience but at the cost of privacy and independence. I wanted LimanDoc to empower me to take their files offline, ensuring their work remains accessible even without an internet connection. This is why I value tools like Obsidian and got many inspirations for LimanDoc. Something Roam Research could be one day.

This doesn’t mean LimanDoc can’t integrate with modern tools. Syncing with Google Drive, for example, remains an option, so I can still sync files to my work laptop when needed. However, the core philosophy is: my files, my network, and my control over the distribution. I can imagine the peace of mind knowing that even when syncing over a local network, my files never leave my private system. Albeit this P2P system and syncing over the local network is still in development, this is one of my goals to bring to the masses on.

2b. Moreover, with advances in neural processing, offline-first extends to local LLMs too. The goal is to bring AI-driven insights directly to you, without your data ever needing to go into the cloud. There are infinitely many cases where this can be useful: transcribe recorded meetings to text; summarize books and long PDFs; or draw a graph of an Excel file.

3. Zettelkasten Turned Into Note-Hoarding

For years, Zettelkasten has been the go-to framework for managing ideas and notes, but I find that it can quickly devolve into an endless library of information I don’t really need. Hoarding information doesn’t make me smarter—it makes finding what I actually need even harder. I praised Obsidian above, but besides the huge entry barrier, the over-engineered plugins make things worse - I was constantly reminded to "improve my system" once more like a drug addict. I mean, the graph view is cool, however that is the only dopamine I get from using Obsidian. But I don't need a shiny toy that distracts me - I need a tool to solve problems.

I believe that notes should be treated like stepping stones. Use them, learn from them, and once you’re done, let them go. In LimanDoc, I want to create a space that values clarity over clutter, motivating me to review and refine notes rather than hoard them. The goal is not to archive every idea but to simplify, understand, and discard what no longer serves me.

4. 2D Canvas: Knowledge is Visual, Not Just Stored

I need to visualize what I have in order to understand it better. Binding this feature with the files that are in my file system gives me a true power tool. Now, some apps also have canvases like Miro or Mural, but they are online, which means that if you want to edit a PDF, Excel, or Word, you will have to download it, do your work, and re-up

load it again. What in a mother of UX is this?

5. Infinite Zoom: Hierarchical Clarity with Fluidity

Knowledge isn’t always linear, and my tools should respect that. With LimanDoc, infinite zoom functionality allows me to create diagrams with files/documentation that grow organically. Let’s say I am developing an idea and want to break down a concept further. I simply create an inner board, which is a folder, and simply zoom in, creating a nested “board within a board” if needed. There is a beautiful concept called Zoomworld by Jef Raskin - read about it!

Feel like me? Then help me to improve LimanDoc by sending feature requests or bug reports to info[at]limandoc.com - I would be eternally grateful to see that my app is also useful to you.

There are tabs, like in a browser, so you can have two tabs for your usecase. Perhaps I can work on tab division, like I'm IDEs. I'll be also implementing a search functionality later to find the files and even searching across the content of files.

However for both files to be visually be on the same level, I am now thinking about shortcuts, where the original document will live in a distant folder (board), and you can view it from other board by creating a reference/shortcut to it. Possibilities are endless!

Signing under the yucky and bloaty corporate part! I try to keep the landing page clean as well, it was quite important for me, as I want to use a tool, rather than a shiny toy. That is why I prefer simple text editors to Notion; it is a must-have for the my app to be compatible with outside software and not a vendor lock-in.

This is a good use-case, thanks! I will be adding arrows quite soon too, but sharing and collaborating externally will take a while, hopefully you have joined waitlist :)

This is a great find, thanks! Indeed I had the vision of Zoomworld as described there. The Leaping concept is very intriguing I must say - will play with that for sure

Does the installer needs admin rights? Or the app after installing it? One possible answer is that I self-signed the app rather than using 400$ code-signing authority - hence you might get warnings for the installer.

This was very important for me, can't appreciate enough for your time trying and reviewing.

Indeed I have been focusing on features more than optimization, but I also had to spend huge amount of time with the new UI tool. For example I had to revert a lot of macOS features like two-finger panning and zooming because on Windows/Linux I would not receive an y-coordinate events from trackpad... Some key shortcuts I had to implement myself for that reason too.

I also wished that the sidebar UI lag was the only one :) There are more if high-def images and big PDFs are rendered. The UI optimization will be the primary focus for next two releases.

Regarding POC - for me it is also a business POC - I primarily want to know if other people will find the idea useful, whether there are alternatives etc. While I'm here I also want to ask what use case would you (if ever) consider using it - personal or work related?

Also feel fee to reach at info[at]limandoc.com, as for the extensive feedbacks I will give a perpetual license in the (possible) near future. Having feedbacks is primary reason for this PoC.

Ah I see now, I will check it out! In near future I will also add a support to render whole web-pages instead, e.g. adding youtube video, blog post, etc. Perhaps adding an excalidraw link there and drawing right within LimanDoc would work... Will keep an eye!

It is indeed hard to optimize it; I haven't fully utilized the potential myself. For now I have an object pool which allows me to create only one instance of a canvas element. Kotlin also allows me to use coroutines easily, also (potentially) have access to GPU/CPU since this is a desktop app.

Another thing I tried (still in backlog) is dynamic quality reducer for images and PDFs - sort of like a game engine rendering where zooming out will reduce quality of images. What are you writing your app on? Electron?

Thanks! The text is not stored in a database, rather I just render the markdown files you have on the canvas. Technically, it is also possible to put your whole Obsidian vault into LimanDoc's vault, and all the files from Obsidian will appear in the canvas :)

This is nice! My thesis writing experience always was far from comfortable, used Obsidian, Evernote, and Latex tools, but nothing matched my needs fully. MonsterWriter would definitely help me few years back.

But I have noticed that my problem is mainly in visualizing and remembering all the docs, pdfs, websites, and basically keeping all the bits of informational from various sources.

So I started my own hobby project LimanDoc[1] where it would serve the purpose of visualizing, diagramming, and previewing docs (later I'll add features like in Roam/Loqseq to backlink pieces of information). One important feature is keeping the files agnostic and possibility to open files in other 3rd party tools. If I want to edit word/excel/markdown files I do it in other tools, and in LimanDoc just preview it.

Still far from perfect, but it is available for download and play around.

[1] limandoc.com

I am working on a knowledge structuring tool as well; will silent release soon: limandoc.com

You can put all your documents/PDFs there and structure them as you wish. And it will be syncing locally only!

I am working on a very similar app but focusing specifically on the knowledge diagramming aspect of it - basically like a drawio/miro/mural but offline first and with extensive support for markdown or LaTeX. My target groups are PhDs and researchers although any “system builder” will find it helpful to build diagrams with documentation and file support. I am at a very early stage now - building the UI part; in the future, I plan to make it truly p2p with elements of Obsidian Canvas.

[1] https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lOIfGaXKbymw7fQXjwBh...

> documentation should be near the source I totally agree with this statement. Moreover, I plan to have a feature that will allow to place your whole project folder into your vault in my app and then reference a diagram through the code/inner file (e.g. using comment blocks). And that file will be visible, searchable, within my documentation software. Think of it as a layer above the code.

However I do not want to tie the documentation process to git as it will be harder for other team members (think of POs, Teamleads, clients) to find the documentation through git history. Instead, a separate IDE for documentation (as is my app) is an ideal place to store & share knowledge. Just like there is separate app for slack, e-mail, browser, etc.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I am creating a documentation management software, with emphasis on a diagramming and system building - similar to Draw.io [1] but with better support on PDFs/Files, text/markdown/Latex, web links, and Search.

It is a desktop application and self-hosted, which will allow to sync with your work laptop and mobile devices without the need for 3rd party server. Many online solutions for knowledge management did not make me happy (e.g. Notion[2], Miro[3], Evernote[4]) as they all lacked either diagram building or were online only. There is also an Obsidian[5] for it is too complicated and it's unbelievable that a user has to go through hours of tutorials on youtube to understand how to use PKM software. Hence I created my easy but powerful tool for keeping all the knowledge/documentation in one place.

The desktop app was build using Kotlin Multiplatform (JVM app) with Compose UI framework

You can view(and comment!) the app screenshots here [6]: There are also mockups with more features, so ignore weird UI at first.

[1]: https://www.drawio.com [2]: https://www.notion.so [3]: https://miro.com [4]: https://evernote.com [5]: https://obsidian.md

[6: App screenshots]: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lOIfGaXKbymw7fQXjwBh...

This is a great example of "pick the right apple". Many VCs and investors can be control freaks, however if your company is profitable enough then you can demand whatever you want from investors.

Just as I would not suggest to start a relationship before healing, same principle applies here: don't ask for money while a company is on low (financial) morale. But once the company is (financially) confident - all VCs and investors will come along. And that's when you can set a tone. For example by not giving up baord seats and restricting what investor can do. Simply offer them 10x return + dividents and nothing more. This capital will be enough to further boost your company.